Surprisingly rational piece on the "bar trade" from FP

[wym]

Foreign Policy is a very respected mainstream media outlet, so this piece IMO is a surprisingly thoughtful and balanced discussion of what we call "bar business" here on TV.

Do please read it before launching into the usual diatribes and personality slagging if at all possible.

Bonus points for finding the references to Thailand and its neighbors.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/01/19/think_again_prostitution

[Showbags]

Nawt wrong with 2 people...sometimes more...entering an agreement to exchange services that they wholeheartedly agree upon independently.

When it is done correctly, people need to mind their own business and let adults choose what they want to do with their own bodies.

As long as no force, coercion or under aged activities are involved, then let the peaceful coexistence be.

As for the subordination of women, clearly they do not have much experience in how much control the working girl has over the vast majority of men, some even charge extra for it.

Driving anything underground creates dire problems and will make things 10 times worse than anything the good gospel people see fit to claim as bad. Health and safety are 2 issues that improve dramatically when in the open and legal and operated responsibly.

Unfortunately as in any industry, their are the cowboys that do not run things properly, but that does not, nor should not detract from the many more that do the right and responsible thing.

I see mention of an Andrew Drummond related article organisation that has very questionable motives for their operation.

The adult sex industry is a completely different kettle of fish to the under age and child industry that more often than not, involves all the ugly side of prostitution that one can imagine. There is a line here that needs to be never crossed and those that do, punished in the extreme. But that line can be quite blurred and often comes down to each and every individual case. But are there enough law enforcement, judges and just caring people to help sort this line out ? I think not.

Good article by the way

Edited January 21, 2014 by Showbags

[nisakiman]

Yes, a good article which highlights the negative effects of intervention in an area where the interventionists have really little or no idea of the unintended consequences inherent in their actions. Unfortunately the world is full of people who think that they know best how people should live their lives, and thus seek to impose their personal moral template on everyone else. You see it in many areas of life; smoking, drinking, eating as well as sex. And because these people tend to be moral crusaders, they are able to influence decisions at government level by dint of shouting long and loud, even though they don't represent the majority. It's essentially puritanism that drives their thinking, and a misplaced sense of self-righteousness.

[oogster8]

can someone lend me 4.99 for a subscription!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ruin]

The legalised version works fine in Singapore in Geylang and the non legal version from the net or Orchard towers still exists.

[oogster8]

bkk version much better than singapores. i have no desire to get back to singapore for girls.................lol.

[JLCrab]

I wonder what percentage of families, after accepting money for their daughter to be taken down to the big city, were assured that the person offering money for their acquiescence was not a pimp or a slaver and only had the best interests of their daughter at heart.

[Showbags]

I wonder what percentage of families, after accepting money for their daughter to be taken down to the big city, were assured that the person offering money for their acquiescence was not a pimp or a slaver and only had the best interests of their daughter at heart.

Dunno...but there are a lot of really dumb and ignorant people out there....look at the current rice scheme and the promises believed by a few

[oogster8]

I wonder what percentage of families, after accepting money for their daughter to be taken down to the big city, were assured that the person offering money for their acquiescence was not a pimp or a slaver and only had the best interests of their daughter at heart.

Dunno...but there are a lot of really dumb and ignorant people out there....look at the current rice scheme and the promises believed by a few

Lets start a new campaign to help the rice farmers of isan.

EAT MO rice!!!!!!!!

[Showbags]

I wonder what percentage of families, after accepting money for their daughter to be taken down to the big city, were assured that the person offering money for their acquiescence was not a pimp or a slaver and only had the best interests of their daughter at heart.

Dunno...but there are a lot of really dumb and ignorant people out there....look at the current rice scheme and the promises believed by a few

Lets start a new campaign to help the rice farmers of isan.

EAT MO rice!!!!!!!!

Its the getting paid bit that is the problem

[HeavyDrinker]

Hi, I am Heavy Drinker's wife and apologise for sticking my nose in but he showed me this article and following posts so thought I'd like to add to this as I have indirectly worked on projects relating to this field in the past (For the EU - and others).

I find this article a fair and well researched piece yet it just highlights the same old "cycle of problems and myths" involved in the sex trade, but few solutions:

Legalisation will protect workers - however this usually means more money in the trade which leads to higher demand which in turn leads to migration from groups of financially poor vulnerable women chasing riches or more often the promise of riches - often to places where they are exploited, enslaved and have few, if any, rights or recourse to help.

Legalisation in turn also opens to door to involving more nefarious people/organisations trafficking illegally to meet demands - all of which in turn invariably leads for calls to outlaw the trade - which leads to putting workers at risk and takes us back to the current status quo -

My husband and I often talk (argue) about the sex trade here in Thailand - both the 'local' scene and the trade focussing on foreigners. His point is that in Thailand the money made always goes direct to the worker and in turn, their families.

He is quite an expert on the effects of the informal economy from the sex industry in the North-East of Thailand - (which formed a part of his PHd thesis), my counter argument to this is that the informal structure here is too open to abuse from the authorities, or the customer (I have worked with many women who have been extorted by the police who get wind of their occupation or - more commonly - have been cheated by customers, yet they all opposed any form of legalisation here should it break their anonymity plus open the door to too many grabbing hands wanting a slice of the profits minimising or reducing their own potential earnings.

I often notice that the sex trade in Thailand which is often represented in the Western media, is usually confused with the 'local' scene which you could argue is almost 'legal' given that many establishments catering to this side of the trade are run/owned by 'untouchables' which in turn lead to the horror stories we read, watch and hear about in the common media in the West.

Thank you. Mrs HD - Pat.

Edit: Grammar and spelling HD....

Edited January 21, 2014 by HeavyDrinker

[Showbags]

Hi, I am Heavy Drinker's wife and apologise for sticking my nose in but he showed me this article and following posts so thought I'd like to add to this as I have indirectly worked on projects relating to this field in the past (For the EU - and others).

I find this article a fair and well researched piece yet it just highlights the same old "cycle of problems and myths" involved in the sex trade, but few solutions:

Legalisation will protect workers - however this usually means more money in the trade which leads to higher demand which in turn leads to migration from groups of financially poor vulnerable women chasing riches or more often the promise of riches - often to places where they are exploited, enslaved and have few, if any, rights or recourse to help.

Legalisation in turn also opens to door to involving more nefarious people/organisations trafficking illegally to meet demands - all of which in turn invariably leads for calls to outlaw the trade - which leads to putting workers at risk and takes us back to the current status quo -

My husband and I often talk (argue) about the sex trade here in Thailand - both the 'local' scene and the trade focussing on foreigners. His point is that in Thailand the money made always goes direct to the worker and in turn, their families.

He is quite an expert on the effects of the informal economy from the sex industry in the North-East of Thailand - (which formed a part of his PHd thesis), my counter argument to this is that the informal structure here is too open to abuse from the authorities, or the customer (I have worked with many women who have been extorted by the police who get wind of their occupation or - more commonly - have been cheated by customers, yet they all opposed any form of legalisation here should it break their anonymity plus open the door to too many grabbing hands wanting a slice of the profits minimising or reducing their own potential earnings.

I often notice that the sex trade in Thailand which is often represented in the Western media, is usually confused with the 'local' scene which you could argue is almost 'legal' given that many establishments catering to this side of the trade are run/owned by 'untouchables' which in turn lead to the horror stories we read, watch and hear about in the common media in the West.

Thank you. Mrs HD - Pat.

Edit: Grammar and spelling HD....

Wow....blew my socks off that did.

[wym]

Thanks Mrs HD!

Yes in environments like Thailand, sex workers most often need protection FROM the police much more than protection BY them.

They are usually treated not as victims (which 90% of the time they're not) nor as criminals (as they often are in more developed countries) but as a resource to be exploited by all concerned.

A legal framework to (lightly) regulate the industry, combined with a strong union led by sex workers themselves as opposed to "rescuer" busybodies, seems to be a way forward, but of course rule of law and relief from a culture of corruption are pretty major impediments here.

[JLCrab]

One of the largest establishments in Khon Kaen -- with a large billboard outside identifying its presence -- is located less than 400 meters from the Royal Thai Police Khon Kaen Station. Go figure.