Yingluck's lawyer confident of her innocence in rice graft charges

[mrtoad]

I'm confident that ASEAN will bring bad luck to Thais.

At this rate, Thailand will become the problem child, like Burma was previously.

[JRSoul]

These people and unreal and or they think the population is stupid.

It is common knowledge who has benefited and who has suffered from the rice scam of which she was the senior player. The only way she will get an innocent verdict will be as a result of even more corruption. What a parasitic group.

Now this is all very well and good. But, saying something is "common" knowledge, that someone has benefitted from something is hardly the case, when there is barely a whisper in the papers about who exactly has benefitted illegally.

So, its all well and good to assume that the likelihood is that someone has done something, but to do so without any hard evidence is frankly ridiculous. Lest we forget that ALL sides of this arguement are largely corrupt to the core, so I don't see the point in stating that something is "common" knowledge when it isn't. Yes, the population appears stupid because NO ONE will blow the whistle to go to court to say, "My boss trousered 100 mn" "my boss trousered 500mn", "I transferred 1bn baht" .

Shouting that you "think" the Shinawatras are corrupt is intensely boring. I think the moon is made of cheese, but who cares.

The silence of the papers is no doubt due to this country's libel laws. Not so constricted, I am happy to point out that the members of Yingluk's cabinet own huge areas of land in Thailand and that rent for rice growing land increased by 50+% due to the rice pledging policy. That is a direct benefit to the implementers of a failed and hugely expensive policy. The increase in rice land rent was an easily foreseeable event which would negate the effects of the policy, and preventable by a rent freeze for the life of the policy.

AFAIK there has not been one declaration of conflict of interest from ANY PTP MP or minister on ANY policy.

[Bung]

"According to him, the team is confident that participating farmers have benefited from the program and that their depositions will clear her name."

Very telling comment that......I read it to mean they will find plenty of farmers who will be paid off to go on side with her. Typical tactics here, pay off or intimidate witnesses.

[JRSoul]

And every but you recognise that is a cop out, an attempt to divert from hard figures to ephemeral concepts.

What needs to be admitted is that the rice pledging was a Thaksin policy of his own government that was recognised to be both a failure and a vehicle for rampant corruption. From memory, only 37% of the allocated funding of the early version actually reached farmers, yet Yingluk, no doubt at her her brother's insistence, reinstated a known failed policy without change and without measures to increase efficacy or to reduce corruption. In fact, corruption in this version has increased to the point the figure reaching farmers has dropped.

Now you see, this is all relative, because then the next question from any reasonable lawyer is going to be

"can you prove that 37% is less than all the other types of subsidy programs in Thailand?"

Wrong. It is not needed to be better than any other.

Installing a policy known to be corrupt and largely failing in its aim WITHOUT REMEDIAL MEASURES is negligence, and that is the charge she faces. Failing to review and amend a policy in over 2 years when that policy is causing huge losses is also negligence.

[Rorri]

Didn't really expect her lawyers to say anything else.

[AleG]

what allegation or accusation you are trying to make? I am more interested in the scheme's wider economic perspective and its contribution to the overall economy and food security preparations of Thailand rather than the different methods of statistical calculation and analysis and argument.

Oh no, no you aren't. If you'd be you'd call it for what it is, a complete disaster measured by any metric you would like to apply (except the electoral success in garnering votes)

Go on, show us how it has been a success if you disagree, with actual numbers and citations.

What are you talking about???

I said

I am more interested in the scheme's wider economic perspective and its contribution to the overall economy and food security preparations of Thailand rather than the different methods of statistical calculation and analysis and argument.

I know the importance of my vote.

If you would really be interested in the points you mentioned, you´d be able and willing to substantiate the positive effect of the Rice Scheme regarding those points with facts. You don't, therefore you aren't.

Quite simple really, but if you still don't understand, the vernacular for that is "put up or shut up".

By the way your vote is of no consequence whatsoever in the matter, you can't vote reality away.

[Thai at Heart]

These people and unreal and or they think the population is stupid.

It is common knowledge who has benefited and who has suffered from the rice scam of which she was the senior player. The only way she will get an innocent verdict will be as a result of even more corruption. What a parasitic group.

Now this is all very well and good. But, saying something is "common" knowledge, that someone has benefitted from something is hardly the case, when there is barely a whisper in the papers about who exactly has benefitted illegally.

So, its all well and good to assume that the likelihood is that someone has done something, but to do so without any hard evidence is frankly ridiculous. Lest we forget that ALL sides of this arguement are largely corrupt to the core, so I don't see the point in stating that something is "common" knowledge when it isn't. Yes, the population appears stupid because NO ONE will blow the whistle to go to court to say, "My boss trousered 100 mn" "my boss trousered 500mn", "I transferred 1bn baht" .

Shouting that you "think" the Shinawatras are corrupt is intensely boring. I think the moon is made of cheese, but who cares.

The silence of the papers is no doubt due to this country's libel laws. Not so constricted, I am happy to point out that the members of Yingluk's cabinet own huge areas of land in Thailand and that rent for rice growing land increased by 50+% due to the rice pledging policy. That is a direct benefit to the implementers of a failed and hugely expensive policy. The increase in rice land rent was an easily foreseeable event which would negate the effects of the policy, and preventable by a rent freeze for the life of the policy.

AFAIK there has not been one declaration of conflict of interest from ANY PTP MP or minister on ANY policy.

So then, I ask again.Where does Halion get this common knowledge from? It gets boring to believe with vehemence that anyone has committed this or that. I believe it was perfectly feasible for the rice thingamajig to go bust without anyone nicking anything, and the fact that it lasted this long, with the volumes and prices they paid, means its possible it wasnt' that bent. You think Yinglucks cabinet is the only one with rice land? Them getting paid for farming it,isn't corruption. There are thousands of yellow pro democrat land owners also. Doesn't make it willfully negligent or corrupt though.

I would presume it would be construed as corruption, if it blatently benefitted one side, and excluded the other. Fact is ALL sides of the poilitical line would benefit if they owned land. For pete's sake, you don't the Democrats have written policy to benefit their benefactors forever? Why do you think still today foreigners are excluded from the most bizarre businesses to the detriment of the country.

[surangw]

Yingluck's lawyer, the puppet of a puppet

[zydeco]

Yes, it is time to put things into the hands of the courts. Frankly, I wish Suthep would cancel his protests. There is no longer a need for them. The handwriting is on the wall and the Shin/PTP's days in government are numbered. None of this would have been brought to light had not Suthep's protest forced YL into a caretaker role. But now that she is, let's let things play out. It's time for the next and likely final stage of this drama. The judicial rendering of YL/PTP's fate.

[brownbear]

Yeah right: I could probably produce a 'rebuttal' in 15 minutes let alone 15 days but it would not be worth diddly squat and nor will their's be. We we all know this will end up in a tied or "mediated' judgement by the courts as no one wants to stick their multi-layered neck out. This is Asia. Thailand.

[Mosha]

Dear Khun Norawich dream on.

It’s not a matter of some participating farmers in red shirt controlled areas has had a windfall, 80 Billion THB has been transferred illegally to Hong Kong from the Rice "scam" budget to Thaksin and his cronies alone, god knows who else gained from this massive corruption.

WOW really?

But you can back up such massive allegations with proof irrefutable no doubt? and would you like to also name "his cronies"? as the laws in Thailand for liable are really quite heavy and to think that peoples comments here are not being watched could be a serious lack of judgment,

Thaksin himself said this government has returned most of the money a previous government had confiscated. Where do you think that money came from?

[JRSoul]

These people and unreal and or they think the population is stupid.

It is common knowledge who has benefited and who has suffered from the rice scam of which she was the senior player. The only way she will get an innocent verdict will be as a result of even more corruption. What a parasitic group.

Now this is all very well and good. But, saying something is "common" knowledge, that someone has benefitted from something is hardly the case, when there is barely a whisper in the papers about who exactly has benefitted illegally.

So, its all well and good to assume that the likelihood is that someone has done something, but to do so without any hard evidence is frankly ridiculous. Lest we forget that ALL sides of this arguement are largely corrupt to the core, so I don't see the point in stating that something is "common" knowledge when it isn't. Yes, the population appears stupid because NO ONE will blow the whistle to go to court to say, "My boss trousered 100 mn" "my boss trousered 500mn", "I transferred 1bn baht" .

Shouting that you "think" the Shinawatras are corrupt is intensely boring. I think the moon is made of cheese, but who cares.

The silence of the papers is no doubt due to this country's libel laws. Not so constricted, I am happy to point out that the members of Yingluk's cabinet own huge areas of land in Thailand and that rent for rice growing land increased by 50+% due to the rice pledging policy. That is a direct benefit to the implementers of a failed and hugely expensive policy. The increase in rice land rent was an easily foreseeable event which would negate the effects of the policy, and preventable by a rent freeze for the life of the policy.

AFAIK there has not been one declaration of conflict of interest from ANY PTP MP or minister on ANY policy.

So then, I ask again.Where does Halion get this common knowledge from? It gets boring to believe with vehemence that anyone has committed this or that. I believe it was perfectly feasible for the rice thingamajig to go bust without anyone nicking anything, and the fact that it lasted this long, with the volumes and prices they paid, means its possible it wasnt' that bent. You think Yinglucks cabinet is the only one with rice land? Them getting paid for farming it,isn't corruption. There are thousands of yellow pro democrat land owners also. Doesn't make it willfully negligent or corrupt though.

I would presume it would be construed as corruption, if it blatently benefitted one side, and excluded the other. Fact is ALL sides of the poilitical line would benefit if they owned land. For pete's sake, you don't the Democrats have written policy to benefit their benefactors forever? Why do you think still today foreigners are excluded from the most bizarre businesses to the detriment of the country.

Is the concept of a conflict of interest new to you? Your presumption is WRONG. There is nothing wrong with benefiting from a government policy UNLESS you happen to be a member of that government voting for that policy. When the policy turns out to be a hugely expensive failure and you have profited from it, why is there not a presumption that you voted for your own benefit?

Any member of this government involved in rice production or renting land for that has hugely increased their own profits by this policy. Not one has recused him/herself from the vote, indicated they will not participate in the scheme, or pledged extra profit will be donated to a charity, AND THAT IS CORRUPTION.

Why do you think Yingluk has steered so clear of votes if not to avoid the conflict issue? It is so sweet that she has fallen into a negligence charge by doing so.

[Mister Fixit]

Whether or not they have benefited is not the issue. The issue is: Negligence!!!

Yinglack's even neglected her own teeth, that's how incompetent she is.

Just look at the state of them in this photo - a disgrace for such a rich, fashion-conscious woman. Doesn't she have a dentist??

[Basil B]

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra’s lawyer has expressed confidence that the premier will be cleared of corruption charges relating to the government's rice-pledging scheme.

If a lawyer announced in the press that his client is guilty as sin, he would be fired wouldn't he ?

Strange though that Noppadon wasn't chosen as lawyer

Yes, but what lawyer in their right mind would want to take this case on???

[ratcatcher]

Whether or not they have benefited is not the issue. The issue is: Negligence!!!

Yinglack's even neglected her own teeth, that's how incompetent she is.

Just look at the state of them in this photo - a disgrace for such a rich, fashion-conscious woman. Doesn't she have a dentist??

Never mind, she will have plenty of time later, maybe even her brother's dentist in Dubai can help.

[rubl]

Again, I want to emphasize that I am more interested in the scheme's wider economic perspective and its contribution to the overall economy and food security preparations of Thailand rather than the different methods of statistical calculation and analysis and argument.

I don't take a narrow view on the rice pledging scheme.

I am quite used to making 12 full digits calculations.

The scheme's wider economic perspective it a loos of 900 billion of the taxpayers money, a ruined reputation od "quality rice provider". As Thailand always was a rice exported the argument of "food security preparations" seems totally pluck out of thin air especially with the emerging state of that 'food'. not even usuble of animal fodder.

So taking a wider view of the rice scam, it just a total disaster.

BTW may you you should stick to 12-digit calculations and leave 'economics' to others.

PS what are 'full digits'?

[Mister Fixit]

I am not privy to the NACC's charges documents. From what the NACC public statements to the medias, I gathered that:

1. Caretaker PM ignored the warning of the possible wide spread corrupt and irregular practices and called for it to drop the policy. IMO, while this warning is helpful, but not necessary that a policy of a government to be dropped.

2. She knew about the corrupt and irregular practices. IMO, On the day of the filing of complaint to the day of acknowledgement of charges, there was not a single government official and minister found guilty of these allegations.

3. That the scheme created financial strain to the State. - This is a narrow personal view on a wider economic perspective of the Government. The scheme was never meant to be a direct money making machine but primary to help the rice farmer which in turn will encourage domestic consumption and growth. It encourage rice farmers to continue farming for food security and the development and growth of related industries.

4. Thar the G-to-G contract was faked. Globally or at least to some countries in the region, G-To-G arrangement and agreement on food is a sensitive national security issue. Access to such information has to follow some security procedures. Yet, we have not found anyone guilty of such allegation, up to this day.

Still apologising for the incompetence of your favourite useless politician, so lets look at your points -

1 Anyone given a warning as she was by such a number of people, economists from the Bank of Thailand, lawyers from the NACC and many others., she went on regardless. That's negligence, with which she has been rightly accused of.

2 Of course there hasn't been anyone found guilty of any allegations, because no-one has been charged or taken to court about them, that's why. Sheesh, is there a brain in there?

3 Not at all, it was the view of many well-respected and highly placed experts. And it's just been announced there will be no third planting, so where is that going to do as you say?

4 See 2 above.

You really ought to stop these stupid posts, you know. You fool no-one, and just make yourself look like a red-shirt Yinglack apologist - which is what you are.

[Mister Fixit]

What are you talking about???

I said

I am more interested in the scheme's wider economic perspective and its contribution to the overall economy and food security preparations of Thailand rather than the different methods of statistical calculation and analysis and argument.

I know the importance of my vote.

And if it's a Thai vote, you can keep it as it's worthless, just like a rice-pledging certificate.

[Mister Fixit]

"According to him, the team is confident that participating farmers have benefited from the program and that their depositions will clear her name."

How can they have benefited if they haven't been paid?

If that's the best he can do then she's doomed.

She may as well buy her sand proof Sloggis now

And get her teeth done while she's there ...

[icommunity]

I am not privy to the NACC's charges documents. From what the NACC public statements to the medias, I gathered that:

1. Caretaker PM ignored the warning of the possible wide spread corrupt and irregular practices and called for it to drop the policy. IMO, while this warning is helpful, but not necessary that a policy of a government to be dropped.

2. She knew about the corrupt and irregular practices. IMO, On the day of the filing of complaint to the day of acknowledgement of charges, there was not a single government official and minister found guilty of these allegations.

3. That the scheme created financial strain to the State. - This is a narrow personal view on a wider economic perspective of the Government. The scheme was never meant to be a direct money making machine but primary to help the rice farmer which in turn will encourage domestic consumption and growth. It encourage rice farmers to continue farming for food security and the development and growth of related industries.

4. Thar the G-to-G contract was faked. Globally or at least to some countries in the region, G-To-G arrangement and agreement on food is a sensitive national security issue. Access to such information has to follow some security procedures. Yet, we have not found anyone guilty of such allegation, up to this day.

Still apologising for the incompetence of your favourite useless politician, so lets look at your points -

1 Anyone given a warning as she was by such a number of people, economists from the Bank of Thailand, lawyers from the NACC and many others., she went on regardless. That's negligence, with which she has been rightly accused of.

2 Of course there hasn't been anyone found guilty of any allegations, because no-one has been charged or taken to court about them, that's why. Sheesh, is there a brain in there?

3 Not at all, it was the view of many well-respected and highly placed experts. And it's just been announced there will be no third planting, so where is that going to do as you say?

4 See 2 above.

You really ought to stop these stupid posts, you know. You fool no-one, and just make yourself look like a red-shirt Yinglack apologist - which is what you are.

1. This argument only proved you are incapable of initiating any big worthy project including those things in your personal life. You chicken out on different opinions and perspective from outside forces.

2. I was talking "On the day of the filing of complaint to the day of acknowledgement of charges, there was not a single government official and minister found guilty of these allegations." There is no massive corruption as accused as of today. You probably does not have a brain capable of knowing that no one taken to court means no massive corruption. BTW, I did not say no-one has been charged. I said : there was not a single government official and minister FOUND GUILTY of these allegations.

3. Again, it proved that you are not a visionary person and incapable of big task. They are well-respected and highly placed experts that do not take a narrow personal view on a wider economic perspective of the scheme.

4. See 2 above.

Your last paragraph is telling you that you really ought to stop this kind of silly, arrogant, confrontational, dictatorial attitudes. If you cannot accept rebuttal and/or different opinion from other, I think you better stop hurting yourself emotionally further. You are not fixing anything but destroying.

Edited March 3, 2014 by icommunity

[casualbiker]

it looks like the government have also ran out of money to pay the 1st car tax refund scheme..

see post here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/708223-first-car-tax-rebate/?p=7517067

[Old Man River]

it looks like the government have also ran out of money to pay the 1st car tax refund scheme..

see post here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/708223-first-car-tax-rebate/?p=7517067

The main question is whether the government budgeted to make the payments. In the rice program, it seems that payments to farmer's still owing were never budgeted for. Hence using part of the approved Central budget for what the EC is approving. The cash is separate. The budget more or less reflects intent to pay.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[casualbiker]

it looks like the government have also ran out of money to pay the 1st car tax refund scheme..

see post here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/708223-first-car-tax-rebate/?p=7517067

The main question is whether the government budgeted to make the payments. In the rice program, it seems that payments to farmer's still owing were never budgeted for. Hence using part of the approved Central budget for what the EC is approving. The cash is separate. The budget more or less reflects intent to pay.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

If it was budgeted it would be paid. The government worker's are being paid because it's budgeted.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[looping]

"According to him, the team is confident that participating farmers have benefited from the program and that their depositions will clear her name."

How can they have benefited if they haven't been paid?

They should be happy and honored to be in the knowledge that their contribution, however small, has kept Thaksin's private jet aloft.

Is this not what they voted for?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited March 3, 2014 by looping

[Bkkbound]

Taksins lawyers were confident he would be found innocent, they assumed the usual tins of money would guaruntee the verdict as per his first election fraud, those lawyers ended up in jail...

Can,t wait to see how they spin this one... She,s going down.

[jpeg]

She'll get off, just you wait and see ...

[Old Man River]

it looks like the government have also ran out of money to pay the 1st car tax refund scheme..

see post here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/708223-first-car-tax-rebate/?p=7517067

The main question is whether the government budgeted to make the payments. In the rice program, it seems that payments to farmer's still owing were never budgeted for. Hence using part of the approved Central budget for what the EC is approving. The cash is separate. The budget more or less reflects intent to pay.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

If it was budgeted it would be paid. The government worker's are being paid because it's budgeted.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So, basically, you are saying the government never intended to pay some in the first car scheme, correct? It does appear that may be the case with the rice scheme. May be a pattern with these populist policies that the western media are so overwhelmed with.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Goat Roper]

Now he's got one more thing to be confident about and the courts are not done yet.

[JamesDean3]

I guess the lawyers have a crystal ball. Fast forward to the part were she's packing her bags for short trip to Cambodia.