Detroit porch killer Theodore Wafer guilty of murder

[webfact]

Detroit porch killer Theodore Wafer guilty of murder

(BBC) A Detroit-area man has been found guilty of second-degree murder for killing an unarmed black woman who banged on his door at night last year.

Jurors rejected Theodore Wafer's claim that he acted in self-defence when he fired a shotgun through his screen door at Renisha McBride, 19, in November.

Mr Wafer, 55, faces up to life in prison, but it is likely his actual sentence will be much shorter.

Ms McBride, who was drunk, had crashed her car nearby some hours before.

The case has raised the issue of the use of guns in self-defence in America, analysts say.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28699129

[bbc]2014-08-08[/bbc]

[Ulysses G.]

Good. This guy deserves a life sentence.



I know of nowhere in the US that it is legal to shoot someone from inside your home to the outside, unless that person is pointing a gun at you. The BBC manages to find some people who "call into question" having guns for self defense. This isn't self defense. It's murder even in the US. Edited August 8, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[rlopes]

Poor woman. Disgusting the world is so racist really.

[rickirs]

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Good. This guy deserves a life sentence.



I know of nowhere in the US that it is legal to shoot someone from inside your home to the outside, unless that person is pointing a gun at you. The BBC manages to find some people who "call into question" having guns for self defense. This isn't self defense. It's murder even in the US.

 

You should learn more about Florida's "Stand Your Ground" laws and the case of George Zimmerman then. You can shoot someone legally anywhere outside. 

[ATF]

How was he to know she wasn't with a few gangbanger friends waiting to rob him?

 

She could have called an an ambulance but then she would be facing a DUI.

 

He should have got 100 hours community service.

[KhnomKhnom]

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Good. This guy deserves a life sentence.



I know of nowhere in the US that it is legal to shoot someone from inside your home to the outside, unless that person is pointing a gun at you. The BBC manages to find some people who "call into question" having guns for self defense. This isn't self defense. It's murder even in the US.

 

You should learn more about Florida's "Stand Your Ground" laws and the case of George Zimmerman then. You can shoot someone legally anywhere outside. 

This is a classic case of over reaction.  The man has no grounds... he was not threatened, no weapon was flashed, and he was in a protected place inside, woman outside.

 

If he had opened the door, removing his protective place category, via Fla Stand Your Ground, he would be innocent.  The shooter can always claim the dead person threatened him via this law, and the dead do not testify.   These laws are basically The Old West returned to America. 

[iReason]

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How was he to know she wasn't with a few gangbanger friends waiting to rob him?

 

She could have called an an ambulance but then she would be facing a DUI.

 

He should have got 100 hours community service.

"How was he to know she wasn't with a few gangbanger friends waiting to rob him?"

 

Stereotypical racism.

 

 

[jacksam]

How was he to know she wasn't with a few gangbanger friends waiting to rob him?
 
She could have called an an ambulance but then she would be facing a DUI.
 
He should have got 100 hours community service.

Surely your American. Or just a lunatic. What a ridiculous post. Next time you knock on my door I will try and " make your day "

[Baerboxer]

Poor woman. Disgusting the world is so racist really.

 

Where does the racism come into this?

 

 

She was drunk, crashed her car and was banging on this man's door in such a way he was fearful. He was in a protective place and the jury decided fired his gun without just cause and should have called the police.

 

Anytime anything happens involving an Afro-American it's called "racist". Where does any reports say that this man was racially motivated? 

[jacksam]

tMost wouldn't jump to siily conclusion that it was racist. Point is this dill blew someone away. Oh who was a 19 yr old female.
Thank god for the US constitution. The right to bear arms. Wonder if he had a licience. Managed to get it out of the locked cabinet. Maybe they don't need em under lock and key in the land of the free

[ATF]

 

How was he to know she wasn't with a few gangbanger friends waiting to rob him?
 
She could have called an an ambulance but then she would be facing a DUI.
 
He should have got 100 hours community service.

Surely your American. Or just a lunatic. What a ridiculous post. Next time you knock on my door I will try and " make your day "

 

 

I won't be knockin' on your door Buddy. My post is ridiculous? What about that heap of oil leaking chrome and rust you're posing on?
 

[Traveler19491]

The reported facts in the case are as follows:

 

The young girl had been at a friend's house drinking and smoking marijuana.  On her way home she ran her car into a tree.  Her cell phone was dead, so she went to Wafer's house to seek help.  She knocked on the door, and Wafer opened the door and immediately fired his shotgun, hitting the girl in the head and killing her instantly.  He at first lied to the police and stated that the gun had gone off accidently, but later changed his story, saying that he was fearful for his life, an apparent attempt at availing himself of Michigan's "Stand Your Ground" law, which says that you may use deadly force to defend yourself if you reasonably feel that you are in imminent danger.  During the course of the trial, Mr. Wafer's testimony was inconsistent, and he also revealed that he just opened the door and fired, never determining who the person was, their race, or their intentions.  He never spoke to her, he never heard her say a word.  He just fired in response to her knocking on the door.  He just said he was afraid.  However, the prosecutor pointed out that under the Michigan law, the shooting had to be, "immediately necessary", and it wasn't.  He was found guilty of second degree murder, manslaughter, and felony use of a firearm.  He faces up to life in prison.

 

It's not known if race was a factor in this case.  The prosecution never brought up race.  However, ATF's comments about her "gangbanger friends waiting to rob him", and, "He should have gotten 100 hours of community service" represent, in my opinion, a Neanderthal view, accomplishing nothing more than to reveal him for the bigot that he is.  His further comments about the US prison system being "70% black" do not take into account the racial disparity in sentencing, an unfortunate failing of our judicial system.  Yes, racism is alive and well in the US, heavily engaged in by some, although certainly not all, neo-conservatives who apparently view themselves as somehow superior.  However, we're still working on the problem, and are doing our damndest to stamp out the knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, troglodites like ATF.

[Naam]

tMost wouldn't jump to siily conclusion that it was racist. Point is this dill blew someone away. Oh who was a 19 yr old female.
Thank god for the US constitution. The right to bear arms. Wonder if he had a licience. Managed to get it out of the locked cabinet. Maybe they don't need em under lock and key in the land of the free

you neither need a license nor have the weapon locked up in your home. but if it's not locked and a child gets hold of it then you are in trouble. in some states, e.g. Florida you can carry your gun openly in public (like in old western movies). but when you want to carry it in your pocket or in a holster under your jacket you need a "concealed weapon license".

[AyG]

How much sympathy would there be for this woman if in her drunk, drug-befuddled state she had run her car into a group of people, rather than a tree, killing them?

 

She was a thoroughly irresponsible menace to society, and society is better off without her.

 

Whilst I don't particularly approve of killing drunk people banging aggressively on one's front door in the middle of the night, in this case this man has rid society of a menace.

[Traveler19491]

How much sympathy would there be for this woman if in her drunk, drug-befuddled state she had run her car into a group of people, rather than a tree, killing them?

 

She was a thoroughly irresponsible menace to society, and society is better off without her.

 

Whilst I don't particularly approve of killing drunk people banging aggressively on one's front door in the middle of the night, in this case this man has rid society of a menace.

 

 

Given the fact that you know absolutely zero about this young woman, what her plans were for her life, what positive contributions she may have made in the past, what she meant to her family, I find it interesting that you can so easily condemn and dismiss her.  Obviously, from the tenor of your post, you have never once in your life done anything irresponsible, never made a poor judgment call, never done the first thing that had a negative impact on someone else, and not once, especially in your youth, made a really poor decision.  I'm assuming that, in your opinion, anyone who gets behind the wheel after one or two too many (which I'm sure you have NEVER, EVER done) is menace to society, and society would be better off without them.  Granted, what she did endangered the lives of others, but no more so than happens every Saturday night, in every city, town, and village in every Western country on the planet.  The fact is that she didn't injure others.  Had she done so, then she would have faced the consequences.  And no one deserves to die for their bad judgment.  Even the law distinguishes between poor judgment (man slaughter), and premeditation (murder), and punishes accordingly.  You, on the other hand, must have a God complex. Your ability to determine a person's worth based solely on the merest fragments of information, and then extrapolate that into a decision on who should live and who should die is truly stunning.  I'm just quite happy for you that she wasn't your daughter.  Come to think of it, I'm happy for HER that she wasn't your daughter.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Traveler19491

[iReason]

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Not surprising. Given the racism of the country.

Doesn't make them all guilty...

 

Everyone in prison is innocent, didn't you know?
 

 

No. I don't know that.

But I know the cliche of which you speak.

[GentlemanJim]

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How much sympathy would there be for this woman if in her drunk, drug-befuddled state she had run her car into a group of people, rather than a tree, killing them?

 

She was a thoroughly irresponsible menace to society, and society is better off without her.

 

Whilst I don't particularly approve of killing drunk people banging aggressively on one's front door in the middle of the night, in this case this man has rid society of a menace.

 

I take it you have never been drunk?

 

I never cease to be amazed at the appalling lack of humanity displayed by some folks on this site. The thing is she did not run her car into a group of people and the penalty for DUI is NOT extrajudicial execution.

[joshstiles]

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Good. This guy deserves a life sentence.



I know of nowhere in the US that it is legal to shoot someone from inside your home to the outside, unless that person is pointing a gun at you. The BBC manages to find some people who "call into question" having guns for self defense. This isn't self defense. It's murder even in the US.

The guy is innocent....he committed no crime.  

[Traveler19491]

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Good. This guy deserves a life sentence.



I know of nowhere in the US that it is legal to shoot someone from inside your home to the outside, unless that person is pointing a gun at you. The BBC manages to find some people who "call into question" having guns for self defense. This isn't self defense. It's murder even in the US.

The guy is innocent....he committed no crime.  

 

 

And your dazzling legal mind bases that statement on what?

[Deacon Bell]

Bet he won't be as tough when a few pipe-hitting brothers doing life eventually catch up with him in his  Protective Custody cell.

[AyG]

 

How much sympathy would there be for this woman if in her drunk, drug-befuddled state she had run her car into a group of people, rather than a tree, killing them?

 

She was a thoroughly irresponsible menace to society, and society is better off without her.

 

Whilst I don't particularly approve of killing drunk people banging aggressively on one's front door in the middle of the night, in this case this man has rid society of a menace.

 

 

Given the fact that you know absolutely zero about this young woman, what her plans were for her life, what positive contributions she may have made in the past, what she meant to her family, I find it interesting that you can so easily condemn and dismiss her.  Obviously, from the tenor of your post, you have never once in your life done anything irresponsible, never made a poor judgment call, never done the first thing that had a negative impact on someone else, and not once, especially in your youth, made a really poor decision.  I'm assuming that, in your opinion, anyone who gets behind the wheel after one or two too many (which I'm sure you have NEVER, EVER done) is menace to society, and society would be better off without them.  Granted, what she did endangered the lives of others, but no more so than happens every Saturday night, in every city, town, and village in every Western country on the planet.  The fact is that she didn't injure others.  Had she done so, then she would have faced the consequences.  And no one deserves to die for their bad judgment.  Even the law distinguishes between poor judgment (man slaughter), and premeditation (murder), and punishes accordingly.  You, on the other hand, must have a God complex.  And I'm quite happy for you that she wasn't your daughter.  Come to think of it, I'm happy for HER that she wasn't your daughter.

 

 

I do know more than "absolutely zero about this young woman":  I know that she chose to drive whilst drunk and under the influence of drugs.  And yes, I have "NEVER, EVER" driven drunk.

 

A close relative of mine, a 17 year old girl, expected to go to university, was run over by a drunk truck driver whilst coming home on her motorcycle.  She died.  The truck driver was stopped a few miles further on.  He was so drunk he couldn't even stand up and didn't even know he'd run over her and her bike.  It's fair to say that I'm not a fan of drunk drivers/murderers.

 

As for "The fact is that she didn't injure others", that was purely a matter of chance.  Had she then "have faced the consequences", those consequences would be far less than the consequences for my niece whose whole, promising life before her was wiped out.

 

And as for "no one deserves to die for their bad judgment", no one deserves to die because some stupid, inconsiderate, antisocial scumbag decides to pour alcohol down their throats, become intoxicated and then drive home.

 

Whilst personally I'd like the law to be so draconian that nobody would ever even contemplate driving drunk, until that day I won't shed a tear for drunk drivers who die as a result of their own actions, be it from crashing headlong into a wall or getting shot for terrorising people in the middle of the night by aggressively banging on their door.

[Traveler19491]

 

 

How much sympathy would there be for this woman if in her drunk, drug-befuddled state she had run her car into a group of people, rather than a tree, killing them?

 

She was a thoroughly irresponsible menace to society, and society is better off without her.

 

Whilst I don't particularly approve of killing drunk people banging aggressively on one's front door in the middle of the night, in this case this man has rid society of a menace.

 

 

Given the fact that you know absolutely zero about this young woman, what her plans were for her life, what positive contributions she may have made in the past, what she meant to her family, I find it interesting that you can so easily condemn and dismiss her.  Obviously, from the tenor of your post, you have never once in your life done anything irresponsible, never made a poor judgment call, never done the first thing that had a negative impact on someone else, and not once, especially in your youth, made a really poor decision.  I'm assuming that, in your opinion, anyone who gets behind the wheel after one or two too many (which I'm sure you have NEVER, EVER done) is menace to society, and society would be better off without them.  Granted, what she did endangered the lives of others, but no more so than happens every Saturday night, in every city, town, and village in every Western country on the planet.  The fact is that she didn't injure others.  Had she done so, then she would have faced the consequences.  And no one deserves to die for their bad judgment.  Even the law distinguishes between poor judgment (man slaughter), and premeditation (murder), and punishes accordingly.  You, on the other hand, must have a God complex.  And I'm quite happy for you that she wasn't your daughter.  Come to think of it, I'm happy for HER that she wasn't your daughter.

 

 

I do know more than "absolutely zero about this young woman":  I know that she chose to drive whilst drunk and under the influence of drugs.  And yes, I have "NEVER, EVER" driven drunk.

 

A close relative of mine, a 17 year old girl, expected to go to university, was run over by a drunk truck driver whilst coming home on her motorcycle.  She died.  The truck driver was stopped a few miles further on.  He was so drunk he couldn't even stand up and didn't even know he'd run over her and her bike.  It's fair to say that I'm not a fan of drunk drivers/murderers.

 

As for "The fact is that she didn't injure others", that was purely a matter of chance.  Had she then "have faced the consequences", those consequences would be far less than the consequences for my niece whose whole, promising life before her was wiped out.

 

And as for "no one deserves to die for their bad judgment", no one deserves to die because some stupid, inconsiderate, antisocial scumbag decides to pour alcohol down their throats, become intoxicated and then drive home.

 

Whilst personally I'd like the law to be so draconian that nobody would ever even contemplate driving drunk, until that day I won't shed a tear for drunk drivers who die as a result of their own actions, be it from crashing headlong into a wall or getting shot for terrorising people in the middle of the night by aggressively banging on their door.

 

 

 

No, the fact is that you know zip about this young woman, other than that she made a stupid decision that, admittedly, endangered others.  While I sympathize deeply with you over the loss of your niece, your rant does nothing to help her, nor does it do anything to mitigate your own pain.  Wishing pain on others is nothing more than a sad attempt to spread your own sorrow.  The fact is that we are each human, and subject to making terrible mistakes, and all too often those mistakes lead to tragedies that have a horrendous impact on others, as is obviously the case with you and your niece having to suffer because of some idiot truck driver's selfish irresponsibility.  But stop for one moment and think...would you be willing to look this young woman's mother in the eye and tell her that society is better off without her?  Are you so callous that you would seek to intensify the pain of another, just to vent your own anger?  How, exactly, does that help you, your niece, or anyone, for that matter?  It would be far better, and far more cathartic, if you were to direct that anger toward something productive...perhaps lobbying for increased sentences for drunk driving?

[ATF]

Here are the facts. She was almost 11 times over the legal alcohol limit for someone under the age of 21 plus marijuana so she'd be facing at least six months jail time plus a hefty fine.

 

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-64773_22774-75633--,00.html

 

The seems to be some confusion about timing but apparently she crashed her car into another car at 1AM and was shot at 4AM? She tried to break into the house. Who knows if she was alone?

 

No one here ever heard of house invasion? I doubt if this crime was racially motivated but it has been reported to be.

 

 

[Wat dee]

 

 

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How was he to know she wasn't with a few gangbanger friends waiting to rob him?

 

She could have called an an ambulance but then she would be facing a DUI.

 

He should have got 100 hours community service.

"How was he to know she wasn't with a few gangbanger friends waiting to rob him?"

 

Stereotypical racism.

 

 

 

 

Yes it's another stereotype that's why the US prison population is about 70% black.

 

 

And the how many of those 70% is actually guilty? 

[Wat dee]

Here are the facts. She was almost 11 times over the legal alcohol limit for someone under the age of 21 plus marijuana so she'd be facing at least six months jail time plus a hefty fine.

 

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-64773_22774-75633--,00.html

 

The seems to be some confusion about timing but apparently she crashed her car into another car at 1AM and was shot at 4AM? She tried to break into the house. Who knows if she was alone?

 

No one here ever heard of house invasion? I doubt if this crime was racially motivated but it has been reported to be.

 

 

You just can not kill people for "just in case"

[ATF]

 

Here are the facts. She was almost 11 times over the legal alcohol limit for someone under the age of 21 plus marijuana so she'd be facing at least six months jail time plus a hefty fine.

 

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-64773_22774-75633--,00.html

 

The seems to be some confusion about timing but apparently she crashed her car into another car at 1AM and was shot at 4AM? She tried to break into the house. Who knows if she was alone?

 

No one here ever heard of house invasion? I doubt if this crime was racially motivated but it has been reported to be.

 

 

You just can not kill people for "just in case"

 

 

No one in their right mind goes banging on or breaking doors in the early hours. I agree the shooter should have called the police but things can happen very quickly.

 

She was not exactly an angel. She was a drug dealer by all accounts. He phone records and texts were not allowed as evidence for the defense.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/27/theodore-wafer_n_5538775.html

 

[Wat dee]

How much sympathy would there be for this woman if in her drunk, drug-befuddled state she had run her car into a group of people, rather than a tree, killing them?

 

She was a thoroughly irresponsible menace to society, and society is better off without her.

 

Whilst I don't particularly approve of killing drunk people banging aggressively on one's front door in the middle of the night, in this case this man has rid society of a menace.

If every 19 year old who's done stupid s'''t deserved death penalty. Lot less TV members.

[Wat dee]

 

 

Here are the facts. She was almost 11 times over the legal alcohol limit for someone under the age of 21 plus marijuana so she'd be facing at least six months jail time plus a hefty fine.

 

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-64773_22774-75633--,00.html

 

The seems to be some confusion about timing but apparently she crashed her car into another car at 1AM and was shot at 4AM? She tried to break into the house. Who knows if she was alone?

 

No one here ever heard of house invasion? I doubt if this crime was racially motivated but it has been reported to be.

 

 

You just can not kill people for "just in case"

 

 

No one in their right mind goes banging on or breaking doors in the early hours. I agree the shooter should have called the police but things can happen very quickly.

 

She was not exactly an angel. She was a drug dealer by all accounts. He phone records and texts were not allowed as evidence for the defense.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/27/theodore-wafer_n_5538775.html

 

 

She was high,drunk and just driven a car in to the tree! She wasn't "their right mind" NOT a reason for killing .

[Pete Beale]

Moral of the story - Don't drink and drive kids!

[Scott]

Why would you shoot someone who had it together enough to knock on the door?