Thailand at crossroads, foreign experts warn

[Exsexyman]

Vote buying will never lead to democracy,and thats a very

big problem in Thailand.it means the side with the most

money wins,

regards Worgeordie

Vote buying goes on in just about every country, it's just a bit more subtle that's all. "Vote for us and we will cut your taxes, ie put money in your pocket". Just one example, there are many more, just look at the manifestos of parties during an election campaign, they are all falling over each other to promise inducements in an attempt to garner votes. Of course they don't have to mean it, they rely on the gullibility and greed of the electorate. A classic example of this was in the last UK election when Nick Clegg promised not to increase student loan fees, he even signed a pledge not to do so and hawked it round the country. There must have been thousands of students and their hard pressed families who voted for his party on the strength of this. Of course as soon as he was in power he did a 100% u turn and reneged on this solemn pledge. Politicians are the same the world over, not to be believed or trusted. As my old man used to say, "If voting made a difference they would abolish it"!

[ggt]

Say what you will...the Military rescued the country on the brink of civil war...politics aside...the Military has taken much needed positive steps to correct many of the overwhelming number of serious social/political problems, corruption, and even transportation problems...

This is Thailand...not Great Britain or the US...quit trying to use those countries as a benchmark for Thais progress in the democratic process...and cleanup your own problems before offering advise to Asian countries...

The jury is still out...on the relative value of having the Military run the country...but considering the alternative...they are doing a marvelous job...

[Krataiboy]

Thailand and it's so-called Democracy are stuck in the trap of two almost equal "political" parties ......both of whom believe they are completely "right" and there opponents are completely "wrong".

Such a two party political system with only two confrontational parties always lead to a "me and my friends are good" but "you and your friends are bad" type of situation that we saw in the streets of Bangkok before the junta took over,

Thailand desperately needs a third political party that is a choice other than the two big political parties.

Then the Thai people can come to understand that:

• Politics is not really important They can and do live their daily lives without politicians.
• All politicians are in fact losers who become politicians because they can't do anything else to earn a living.
• That politicians do not run the government, they should be regarded as "hired servants" of the people who elect them.
• And that as "hired servants" of the people they can be "fired" by the people if they do not do the job they were hired for properly.
• And most of all Politicians are not "Rock Stars" to be idolized and worshiped, they are losers who got their jobs because they couldn't do anything else to make a living.

When Thai voters get that attitude, that all politicians are losers that they hire to work for them with their vote and NOT their leaders but their followers, only then will a real Democracy of the people become possible.

Until a third party with enough strength to influence elections against the other two major parties is in place, Thai politics will remain trapped in that "two almost equal political parties trap" I referred to at the beginning of this post.

In such a trap, the military is left as the only "last resort" to maintain the rule of law against the inevitable trap of the two opposing parties and the "my party good, Your party bad" mentality that Thai politics is today.

Five years with no elections,

Five years of Military Rule.

Five years to cool down,

Five years without politics to solve the "crises".

Only then will "Democracy" without hate be a possibility

Thailand has two major parties with deeply entrenched opposing views because of the nature of Thai society which is still one in which patronage predominates.The middle class is still relatively small, so the Lib-Dems are unlikely to come riding to the nation’s rescue any time soon.

One party represents the elite, desperately seeking to hang on to their power and privilege by any means, including brute force if necessary. The other is supported by the mass of ordinary working people, who have proved remarkably persistent and patient in trying to win fairer share of the country’s wealth through the democratic process.

Unfortunately, every time the flower of democracy has started to sprout, the ruling class has galvanised its considerable forces to have it crushed underfoot – usually by a military jackboot. Since 1932, when the absolute monarchy was abolished, Thailand has had 25 general elections and no less than19 coups - 12 of them successful.

One can argue about those politicians the masses choose as leaders, but not about the legitimacy of their political aspirations. And only somebody seriously mentally challenged would even try to argue that after so many generations of striving for democracy they don’t know what they are fighting for.

As the Arab spring and other recent events demonstrated so vividly, no country is ever considered “ready” for democracy by those who have profited so manifestly from its absence. That they should hold to this view is understandable, but for it to be parroted by self-appointed pundits who are themselves beneficiaries of mature democracies is as arrogant as it is hypocritical.

[somo]

"Military intervention had been used "as a political strategy" by People's Democratic Reform Committee protesters, who were calling for a coup and were expecting it, he said."

The man has eyes and ears and a brain to connect them.

Good job!

He also said "Though the military used the potential of an escalation in violence as the reason behind the coup, Knuth said it could have upheld the democratic process by protecting election sites instead of seizing power."

Spot on!

It tends to show that the military was more focused on a power grab than the simple task of securing the peoples right to vote.

[tbthailand]

"Military intervention had been used "as a political strategy" by People's Democratic Reform Committee protesters, who were calling for a coup and were expecting it, he said."

The man has eyes and ears and a brain to connect them.

Good job!

He also said "Though the military used the potential of an escalation in violence as the reason behind the coup, Knuth said it could have upheld the democratic process by protecting election sites instead of seizing power."

Spot on!

It tends to show that the military was more focused on a power grab than the simple task of securing the peoples right to vote.

but of course, and we know that directly from Suthep.

[Benmart]

The only reason Democracy is difgicult in Thailand is due to the Dem/ Military "Allegiance". Its an obvious pattern time & time agsin. Dems are minority/ wamt power/ Cause political turmoil as a setup/ prelude for the "Brother" military to step in. It it endless!!

What utter and complete rubbish! Democracy is dependent on the rule of law. Without the rule of law there is no democracy, either here or in any other country. From the simple refusal to don motorbike helmets to the massive corruption that runs all the way through the Thai system, you can see that the rule of law is sadly lacking. And why is that? Perhaps it is because of the Thai characteristic? Or perhaps because of the failed education system. Whichever, when you have a system as corrupt as the system in Thailand it will extend all the way through to the political management of the country. Corruption is counter democracy: at the local level nothing moves until you've slipped someone a backhander. Try running a business here. Everything is licensed and in order to obtain that licence you have to pay the Government officers under the counter cash. All Thaksin did at the end of the day was to exploit this sytem. In order for him and his cronies to remain at the top of the corrupt tree, they had to manage the politics. There was no, and there never has been, any democracy under the Shins because it was simply not in their financial interests to run a free and fair elctoral system and they were very good at manipulating everything. Sadly, some Dem politicians have also been caught up in this process. However, Abhisit tried to run an open and honest system and he even faced opposition from within his own party. There was never a Dem/Military alliance as you claim and there is no evidence at all to suggest that. It's just an idea that you have due to the lack of understanding of the whole business/political/cultural process in Thailand. Sadly, I can't see much changing. Corruption now is worse than ever. Due to the coup's strengthening of controls and application of existing laws, it just means that the price of corruption has risen. By that I do not suggest that the army is part of this process, but those that have run licensing committees and the like are still demanding bribes and increasing their price.

I agree with many of your points, although the first sentence seemed unnecessary.

Breaking the post into paragraphs would have made the reading much easier.

Keep them coming.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Benmart

[Benmart]

save us from so called experts total shams most of them and i should know i used to be one in my field. I always found it amusing that people believed crap i totally made up.

"Experts" are numerous and I exercise the option to believe what I like. Those that prefer to collectively debunke them also have that right.

Kudos for you to reveal your past. I too was an expert, particularly after too many drinks.

One Day At A time.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Benmart

[Leung Falang]

Vote buying will never lead to democracy,and thats a very

big problem in Thailand.it means the side with the most

money wins,

regards Worgeordie

Then why have the Democrats not won an election in ages?

Because they are relatively poor. They don't have a super rich owner.

Look at Venezuela where we once lived. Chavez offered to change the lives of the poor, about 70% of the country, and became president for life. Money not needed, but one group or several that make a vast majority who want "hope and change" for themselves.

[rebeli]

The people who drew up the American constitution were wise as well as brave. Nothing is perfect but despite erosion Americans still enjoy more freedoms than most others. They recognized the need for the people to have rights that would prevent central government slowly changing things to get total control.

Maybe that's why Americans have given so much to the world in the fields of science, the arts, sports, and been one of, if not the most innovative country over the last century or so.

How can you write such a story like americans are almost holy.

American democracy sucks. You only need 26 % of the votes to becoming president. Is that democracy.

Spying on Americans and all over the world.

you are obviously not an American and for that we'll forgive you.

You are also amazingly uninformed. For that you should remain silent until you have real information.

I am glad I am not an American and don't pretend I know everything as you do.

Criticism without arguments is the lowest form of communication comparable with children arguing.

[DonThaiToMe]

The only reason Democracy is difgicult in Thailand is due to the Dem/ Military "Allegiance". Its an obvious pattern time & time agsin. Dems are minority/ wamt power/ Cause political turmoil as a setup/ prelude for the "Brother" military to step in. It it endless!!

What utter and complete rubbish! Democracy is dependent on the rule of law. Without the rule of law there is no democracy, either here or in any other country. From the simple refusal to don motorbike helmets to the massive corruption that runs all the way through the Thai system, you can see that the rule of law is sadly lacking. And why is that? Perhaps it is because of the Thai characteristic? Or perhaps because of the failed education system. Whichever, when you have a system as corrupt as the system in Thailand it will extend all the way through to the political management of the country. Corruption is counter democracy: at the local level nothing moves until you've slipped someone a backhander. Try running a business here. Everything is licensed and in order to obtain that licence you have to pay the Government officers under the counter cash. All Thaksin did at the end of the day was to exploit this sytem. In order for him and his cronies to remain at the top of the corrupt tree, they had to manage the politics. There was no, and there never has been, any democracy under the Shins because it was simply not in their financial interests to run a free and fair elctoral system and they were very good at manipulating everything. Sadly, some Dem politicians have also been caught up in this process. However, Abhisit tried to run an open and honest system and he even faced opposition from within his own party. There was never a Dem/Military alliance as you claim and there is no evidence at all to suggest that. It's just an idea that you have due to the lack of understanding of the whole business/political/cultural process in Thailand. Sadly, I can't see much changing. Corruption now is worse than ever. Due to the coup's strengthening of controls and application of existing laws, it just means that the price of corruption has risen. By that I do not suggest that the army is part of this process, but those that have run licensing committees and the like are still demanding bribes and increasing their price.

The first line in your post shows that YOURE post is "utter and complete rubbish" and so is youre understanding of politics. A REPUBLIC is governed by the rule of law NOT a democracy.

Didn´t bother to read the rest of youre post as you already showed your "skills" regarding politics.

Cheers.

[givenall]

Just keep military in charge. Some people don't understand or deserve democracy. But again the military can also be cruppet so same thing as before.

[catweazle]

If kids get too naughty, dad has to put down his food - this is what happened. Sometimes a strong hand is required to lead. And I personally favor this over a paper democracy and childs' play (like we had in the past years). I don't see uncertainty or a crossroads - quite the contrary; the boat is getting back on course ! I just hope that the world police will not (at some point) decide that Thailand needs to be "liberated"...

Edited August 19, 2014 by catweazle

[tbthailand]

The people who drew up the American constitution were wise as well as brave. Nothing is perfect but despite erosion Americans still enjoy more freedoms than most others. They recognized the need for the people to have rights that would prevent central government slowly changing things to get total control.

Maybe that's why Americans have given so much to the world in the fields of science, the arts, sports, and been one of, if not the most innovative country over the last century or so.

How can you write such a story like americans are almost holy.

American democracy sucks. You only need 26 % of the votes to becoming president. Is that democracy.

Spying on Americans and all over the world.

you are obviously not an American and for that we'll forgive you.

You are also amazingly uninformed. For that you should remain silent until you have real information.

I am glad I am not an American and don't pretend I know everything as you do.

Criticism without arguments is the lowest form of communication comparable with children arguing.

I'm glad you're not American too.

[KhnomKhnom]

This claptrap is typical of foreigners who are expurts on Thailand...... i.e., knowing nothing except their Knee Jerk opinions formed elsewhere.

The problem with any democracy is the open possibility of the formation of powerful POLITICAL MACHINES in pockets within it. The Richard Daley machine in Chicago is a great model case of formation, use, and efforts to root it out.

The Thaksins political machine is the way he and his kin and cronies, bit by bit, gained near absolute power in the whole nation (except 4 S. provinces ). MACHINE POLITICS is devilishly difficult to root out as the Thai Army is now working on. It is also very difficult to arrange any democracy to avoid the growth of it and still have some kind of democracy.

Today, Thailand has the unique opportunity to kill off the Thaksin machine bloodlessly.... an "Amazing Thailand" feat in itself .... and then to try to find a way to stop his or other machines forming. All this and at the same time, put the Army to work WITH the police to get the police to enforce the law..... with and not "instead of" nor "without."

I say Go Army !!!!