British activist goes on trial in Thailand for defamation

[TacoGuy]

announced to check the conditions of the workers. Where inputs are made in the village, teams are sent out by large companies to ensure that child labor is not being used etc.

The accusation is that the company is not complying to Thai law not European. They are accused of not complying to overtime, minimum wage and work permit rule.

These are the basic minimum and if they can't even comply to that, then they aren't worth dealing with.

If Thai law is being broken it is a matter for Thai investigators and police to deal with it. Mot foreigners. If they want to overlook it, that is their choice.

[Thai at Heart]

announced to check the conditions of the workers. Where inputs are made in the village, teams are sent out by large companies to ensure that child labor is not being used etc.

The accusation is that the company is not complying to Thai law not European. They are accused of not complying to overtime, minimum wage and work permit rule.

These are the basic minimum and if they can't even comply to that, then they aren't worth dealing with.

If Thai law is being broken it is a matter for Thai investigators and police to deal with it. Mot foreigners. If they want to overlook it, that is their choice.

It is if they want to sell it to foreigners. Buyers can at minimum expect their suppliers to comply with local rules and regulations.

[kingalfred]

Shameful that pressure not put on thailand by UK government. isolate Thailand.

[Jonmarleesco]

Lucky that Thai companies are so much able to rely on the country's business-centred approach to defamation law. Otherwise, heaven forbid, they might actually need to not only revisit their working practices but their weird and wonderful ideas of what constitutes customer service.

[Thongkorn]

Its on the BBC radio news this morning.

Owner claims to have lost too much "face" over the allegation.

pity it was not his Bank balance he lost.

[Thaimaishoe]

announced to check the conditions of the workers. Where inputs are made in the village, teams are sent out by large companies to ensure that child labor is not being used etc.

The accusation is that the company is not complying to Thai law not European. They are accused of not complying to overtime, minimum wage and work permit rule.

These are the basic minimum and if they can't even comply to that, then they aren't worth dealing with.

If Thai law is being broken it is a matter for Thai investigators and police to deal with it. Mot foreigners. If they want to overlook it, that is their choice.

OK, lemme just help you out here. A few years ago, somewhere in the world there was a meeting between a rep. from the Thai company, and a rep. from a western company, and it went something like this...

WR: We would love to buy your cheap ass fruit juice, for the lowest price you can supply.

TR: OK, we will use child labor, and exploit foriegn workers (domestic workers as well as needed) and we can get the price down to xyz USD/GBP/AUS/CAD/FRNK/DMK. How's that?

WR: Whoa, whoa.... Wait a minute. We can not tell you what labor to use, and we sure do like that xyz price you just quoted, but the laws in the countries we operate in forbid us from knowingly using slave/child/exploited labor. So can you still supply these products at xyz price and not use child/slave/exploited labor?

TR: Far as you know.

WR: Fantastic! We have a deal then.

TR: OK. Yes, we can supply you products for xyz price, and we agree you can think that your supplier meets your laws.

----------------------

Right there the Thai supplier agreed to meet EU/US/CAD/AUS laws. Just because they thought they had a wink and a nod agreement with the buyer, does not free them from that.

These laws in western countries have been hard won victories by many activists over many years. Holding domestic companies to them is an arduous task. Holding domestic companies to the law, when they start outsourcing the supply chain, is even more difficult. So your poor exploitative Thai company, that is accustomed to operating with impunity, gets caught up in the real world quite by accident. Their turn of the last century business methods are exposed in an effort to make sure that accepted modern practices are followed by the western company. The Western company is just as complicit, but maintains denyability.

[Thai at Heart]

announced to check the conditions of the workers. Where inputs are made in the village, teams are sent out by large companies to ensure that child labor is not being used etc.

The accusation is that the company is not complying to Thai law not European. They are accused of not complying to overtime, minimum wage and work permit rule.

These are the basic minimum and if they can't even comply to that, then they aren't worth dealing with.

If Thai law is being broken it is a matter for Thai investigators and police to deal with it. Mot foreigners. If they want to overlook it, that is their choice.

OK, lemme just help you out here. A few years ago, somewhere in the world there was a meeting between a rep. from the Thai company, and a rep. from a western company, and it went something like this...

WR: We would love to buy your cheap ass fruit juice, for the lowest price you can supply.

TR: OK, we will use child labor, and exploit foriegn workers (domestic workers as well as needed) and we can get the price down to xyz USD/GBP/AUS/CAD/FRNK/DMK. How's that?

WR: Whoa, whoa.... Wait a minute. We can not tell you what labor to use, and we sure do like that xyz price you just quoted, but the laws in the countries we operate in forbid us from knowingly using slave/child/exploited labor. So can you still supply these products at xyz price and not use child/slave/exploited labor?

TR: Far as you know.

WR: Fantastic! We have a deal then.

TR: OK. Yes, we can supply you products for xyz price, and we agree you can think that your supplier meets your laws.

----------------------

Right there the Thai supplier agreed to meet EU/US/CAD/AUS laws. Just because they thought they had a wink and a nod agreement with the buyer, does not free them from that.

These laws in western countries have been hard won victories by many activists over many years. Holding domestic companies to them is an arduous task. Holding domestic companies to the law, when they start outsourcing the supply chain, is even more difficult. So your poor exploitative Thai company, that is accustomed to operating with impunity, gets caught up in the real world quite by accident. Their turn of the last century business methods are exposed in an effort to make sure that accepted modern practices are followed by the western company. The Western company is just as complicit, but maintains denyability.

No it doesn't go anything like that at all.

It goes like.

Foreigner : OK, so minimum wage is 300 a day, and overtime is time and a half, and everyone need 30mins a day for lunch.

I mean that's the law right.

Thai : oh yes of course, we would never break the thai law. We are an honest people and we care for our workers. I don't make much profit because we give so much to the labour. Please sign here and order 10mn USD of fruit.

Farang : OK.

All they have to do is the legal MINIMUM.

All the rest is fluff. 300 a day, pay overtime and social.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[GAZZPA]

Will be very interesting to see what happens. Many supermarket chains are being challenged to investigate their supply chains. Natural Fruit is of course owned by an influential Democratic Party family. I wonder if the soldiers have the guts to take them on?

Out side of their Asian markets, this is a PR disaster for the company concerned, and it could get a lot worse for them.

I agree, it is highly risky for the company to go down this route.

If he is found innocent people will immediately view that as a sign of guilt for the company. The best thing they should have done is publicly announce that they were investigating the allegations and that they would fix anything wrong.

It is too late now however as it has International exposure and there is a following. This should also mean a fair trial (relatively) as the details of the case are being watched, but lets see what happens.

[farang000999]

I hope they hit him with the entire twenty year jail sentence.

He has caused this company and the owners to lose face and he is not even Thai.

[Stuart21]

test

Edited September 4, 2014 by Stuart21

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Thailand knows what Mr. Hall and the international community has said about unfair labour practices, Child labour, human trafficking and etc is the Truth. But Thailand never admits to the Truth.

[wilcopops]

It's not his business to be pointing fingers in Thailand. He is holding Thailand to an EU standard which in an idealistic utopian world is fine, but the real world is simplistic. And it's a bit foolhardy during a coup.

such a parochial attitude.......

[srsv1238]

Thai justice... What do you expect?

[madpat]

All very well this guy going on about exploitation in Thailand, but why doesnt he go home to the UK where 1,000s of Eastern European,,,,Asian and others get exploited in sweatshops, fruit and veg picking and many other jobs.

He could go to the US where immigrants are used as slave labour in fruit picking, as maids ,gardeners in he houses of the rich after they have crossed the borders.

It is government officials who should be on trial as they know this is going on but do nothing about i because they are either to scared ,too lazy or have their fingers in the pie.

[Thai at Heart]

All very well this guy going on about exploitation in Thailand, but why doesnt he go home to the UK where 1,000s of Eastern European,,,,Asian and others get exploited in sweatshops, fruit and veg picking and many other jobs.

He could go to the US where immigrants are used as slave labour in fruit picking, as maids ,gardeners in he houses of the rich after they have crossed the borders.

It is government officials who should be on trial as they know this is going on but do nothing about i because they are either to scared ,too lazy or have their fingers in the pie.

Why? Weather? Women? Beer?

[wilcopops]

At risk of sounding clicheed I'm going to introduce Godwin's law at this stage.

Following the logic of some posts here it would have been entirely up to the Germans what went on at Auschwitz and the rest of the world should have minded their own business?

[TacoGuy]

All very well this guy going on about exploitation in Thailand, but why doesnt he go home to the UK where 1,000s of Eastern European,,,,Asian and others get exploited in sweatshops, fruit and veg picking and many other jobs.

He could go to the US where immigrants are used as slave labour in fruit picking, as maids ,gardeners in he houses of the rich after they have crossed the borders.

It is government officials who should be on trial as they know this is going on but do nothing about i because they are either to scared ,too lazy or have their fingers in the pie.

Absolutely right. Too many do-gooding farangs in SE Asia using human rights issues as a means to make a living. Fine if they are open to it, if the country wants the help, but often they are not. This guy should be in Europe dealing with human rights abuses if he is that concerned. But I suppose his own backyard is too "parochial" for him.

[Englishabc]

If what you say is even half-true it seems we live in a very unjust, intolerant, and greedy world; just the ingredients found elsewhere in the world in abundance. This is something Pope Francis has just referred to, drawing parallels with a fragmented but nevertheless very real beginning of a Third World War!