Scots who voted for independence showed us the way to go

[sandrabbit]

Peter Hain talking sense, there's a first time for everything ......

it was his government that took the UK to the brink it is now, they took over an economy doing really well then proceeded to spend like a lottery winner along with taking the UK into 2 wars for no reason. also he was the guy taking direct action digging up cricket pitches etc over apartheid and called the police when some people quietly protested outside his house in Neath, one of the safest labour seats in the UK - liebour royalty.

[BKK Blues Brother]

Freedom to Scotland!

Brave heart Falkirk fell first last night

[BKK Blues Brother]

The SNP need to shut up now and crawl back under their stone..

Better still sod off and leave the peaceful UK alone from their divisive, separatist nationalist socialist nonsense.

[MAJIC]

The SNP need to shut up now and crawl back under their stone..

Better still sod off and leave the peaceful UK alone from their divisive, separatist nationalist socialist nonsense.

Very true the only Party to use Blatant ridiculous Nationalism,in the place of real policies,this time most of the Scottish people (55%) haven't fell for it!

[rickirs]

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Now it's over I am relieved the Scottish electorate have voted 'no'.

I know there's a lot of banter on this forum - which I quite enjoy. But, my underlying reason for welcoming the decision is simply that narrow nationalism - like some, but not all of the 'yes' supporters were advocating, is the biggest problem in the world today.

I also understand that the last country to vote for separation was Czechoslovakia in he early/mid 1990's. They are still working on some minor outstanding problems 22 years later, although I do accept it was peaceful.

Sudan, once the largest and one of the most geographically diverse states in Africa, split into two countries in July 2011.

[istinspring]

The SNP need to shut up now and crawl back under their stone..

Better still sod off and leave the peaceful UK alone from their divisive, separatist nationalist socialist nonsense.

Very true the only Party to use Blatant ridiculous Nationalism,in the place of real policies,this time most of the Scottish people (55%) haven't fell for it!

55% dont looks like a vast majority for me. 45% is still huge amount, nearly half!

[rickirs]

It's great that the UK Constitutional Monarchy respected Scot's right to a referendum on independence of Scotland from the UK. The elections were a demonstration of a vibrant democracy where difference of opinion is respected and peaceful. Does this show the way for encouraging People's participation in Thailand's governance?

[MAJIC]

The SNP need to shut up now and crawl back under their stone..

Better still sod off and leave the peaceful UK alone from their divisive, separatist nationalist socialist nonsense.

Very true the only Party to use Blatant ridiculous Nationalism,in the place of real policies,this time most of the Scottish people (55%) haven't fell for it!

55% dont looks like a vast majority for me. 45% is still huge amount, nearly half!

It's not a huge amount,considering the YES vote (45%) needed another 10% to be in the winning position of the NO Vote @ 55%!

[emilymat]

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Now it's over I am relieved the Scottish electorate have voted 'no'.

I know there's a lot of banter on this forum - which I quite enjoy. But, my underlying reason for welcoming the decision is simply that narrow nationalism - like some, but not all of the 'yes' supporters were advocating, is the biggest problem in the world today.

I also understand that the last country to vote for separation was Czechoslovakia in he early/mid 1990's. They are still working on some minor outstanding problems 22 years later, although I do accept it was peaceful.

Sudan, once the largest and one of the most geographically diverse states in Africa, split into two countries in July 2011.

Ricks. Spot on. I should have said European country. Mind you, I think you would agree the two Sudans are not the best of mates!.

[istinspring]

Ricks. Spot on. I should have said European country. Mind you, I think you would agree the two Sudans are not the best of mates!.

Kosovo? Ukraine?

[Munsterman]

Pity that the Scots didn't get independence. I think at least one part of the independence vote came from the anger resulting from such events as Blair's tamely following the baby Bush to get those WMDs and rid the poor Iraqis of the evil Saddam - despite massive protests in Scotland. Now Scotland is stuck not only with the pound, but with the absurd foreign policies of Westminster.

[Richard W]

I think at least one part of the independence vote came from the anger resulting from such events as Blair's tamely following the baby Bush to get those WMDs and rid the poor Iraqis of the evil Saddam - despite massive protests in Scotland.

Blair's Scottish enough for that to be totally invalid.

[ABCer]

Ricks. Spot on. I should have said European country. Mind you, I think you would agree the two Sudans are not the best of mates!.

Kosovo? Ukraine?

My general attidude to the OP is clear from #21.

I believe it is lacking in wit and respect unless it has meant being sarcastic.

But any mention of Scotland next to Kosovo, Sudan, "Palestine", Ukraine or even Thailand is an insult deliberate or by omission.

Scotts had an issue. They debated it in a most civil way. They conducted a Referendum. No Polling Stations were attacked, burnt or closed by force. They gracefully accepted the result.

No Britts were killed or raped. No missiles fired over the border. Salmond stupid as he is (IMHO) didn't go to USA to beg for arms 'lethal and not lethal'.

Anybody drawing parallels between Scotland and the rest mentioned above must be hating himself.

Reminder: I am not a Britt or a Scott. I just try to be fair. Some people should try it too.

Edited September 20, 2014 by ABCer

[kingalfred]

Is that a " Britt" Ekland and a " Scott" Bakula ? Or others

[ABCer]

Is that a " Britt" Ekland and a " Scott" Bakula ? Or others

Not even a Sir Walter Scott.

Since I said I'm neither of the two and I was taught at the ancient times when Britt and Scott were spelled with double 't'.

No harm done. Both may sound a bit tougher than they are. You may add the word 'titts' to this rule - adds a bit of hardness.

BTW I've never had a chance to ask about your name KingAlfred.

[kingalfred]

Alfred,the great Anglo saxon King of Wessex, England. who defeated the viking invasion and had a huge influence on the formation of what is today the UK.

[istinspring]

Ricks. Spot on. I should have said European country. Mind you, I think you would agree the two Sudans are not the best of mates!.

Kosovo? Ukraine?

My general attidude to the OP is clear from #21.

I believe it is lacking in wit and respect unless it has meant being sarcastic.

But any mention of Scotland next to Kosovo, Sudan, "Palestine", Ukraine or even Thailand is an insult deliberate or by omission.

Scotts had an issue. They debated it in a most civil way. They conducted a Referendum. No Polling Stations were attacked, burnt or closed by force. They gracefully accepted the result.

No Britts were killed or raped. No missiles fired over the border. Salmond stupid as he is (IMHO) didn't go to USA to beg for arms 'lethal and not lethal'.

Anybody drawing parallels between Scotland and the rest mentioned above must be hating himself.

Reminder: I am not a Britt or a Scott. I just try to be fair. Some people should try it too.

You're overestimated the humanity if Scotland would had been an object of geopolitical interests for countries like USA you might had seen different level of "civil debates".

[emilymat]

ABCer. Let's get something straight. In my original post I merely pointed out that Czechoslovakia had held a peaceful referendum over 20 years ago and still had some minor problems to resolve. I was trying to indicate that an independent Scotland would take years to disentangle itself from the rest of the UK and vice versa.

The other contributions were simply to indicate other countries which had 'fragmented' by different means. None, in my view, were seeking to diretly link Scotland with the bloodbaths of Kosova etc.

[ABCer]

ABCer. Let's get something straight. In my original post I merely pointed out that Czechoslovakia had held a peaceful referendum over 20 years ago and still had some minor problems to resolve. I was trying to indicate that an independent Scotland would take years to disentangle itself from the rest of the UK and vice versa.

The other contributions were simply to indicate other countries which had 'fragmented' by different means. None, in my view, were seeking to diretly link Scotland with the bloodbaths of Kosova etc.

It's OK, emilymat. I have no problems with your analogies.

Just was trying to emphasize the difference between a civilized country and those lacking in civility.

Never even tried to present myself as an expert in Scotland/England relations. Just admire the way they sorted it out so far.

By the way, if a Scott is a name how do you indicate his Nationality - Scot?

Equally, if a Britt is a name of a British man - Brit?

This is a genuine question, since I am neither of the two. Sounds weird to me.

[emilymat]

ABCer. Let's get something straight. In my original post I merely pointed out that Czechoslovakia had held a peaceful referendum over 20 years ago and still had some minor problems to resolve. I was trying to indicate that an independent Scotland would take years to disentangle itself from the rest of the UK and vice versa.

The other contributions were simply to indicate other countries which had 'fragmented' by different means. None, in my view, were seeking to diretly link Scotland with the bloodbaths of Kosova etc.

It's OK, emilymat. I have no problems with your analogies.

Just was trying to emphasize the difference between a civilized country and those lacking in civility.

Never even tried to present myself as an expert in Scotland/England relations. Just admire the way they sorted it out so far.

By the way, if a Scott is a name how do you indicate his Nationality - Scot?

Equally, if a Britt is a name of a British man - Brit?

This is a genuine question, since I am neither of the two. Sounds weird to me.

Thanks for the reply. You need a Scottish person to answer some of this. It seems to be a touchy issue.

It can appear strange. Great Britain is the island of England/Wales/Scotland but the United Kingdom includes northern Ireland.

Therefore, all living in GB are British or Brit for short. That is why northern Ireland use the term Unionists, as part of the UK.

Having said that, I am 73 y.o. but have always thought of Scotland/Wales/England as separate countries with their own identity but within a common union. (and good friends).

Mind you, I can understand Scotland's frustration at times, even within the UK. Although we have a common currency there are many shops and businesses' in England who will not accept Scottish banknotes. (They are somewhat different to English ones). It's quite outrageous and I have had it happen to me after returning from a business trip to Aberdeen.. Also, a friend of mine in Pattaya tried to change Scottish banknotes at a money exchange and they refused - as though he had landed from Mars.

. The Benelux countries spring to mind is a very loose sense, but I have no idea how formal that expression is, or if it's even used these days.

In conclusion, whatever the frustrations, the UK is a small island off the west coast of Europe and it seems to me unrealistic to start fragmenting this island any further. (I only say this after the vote, as it wasn't my ballot).

I'm sure some constitutional expert on this forum can explain it better than me.

[ABCer]

ABCer. Let's get something straight. In my original post I merely pointed out that Czechoslovakia had held a peaceful referendum over 20 years ago and still had some minor problems to resolve. I was trying to indicate that an independent Scotland would take years to disentangle itself from the rest of the UK and vice versa.

The other contributions were simply to indicate other countries which had 'fragmented' by different means. None, in my view, were seeking to diretly link Scotland with the bloodbaths of Kosova etc.

It's OK, emilymat. I have no problems with your analogies.

Just was trying to emphasize the difference between a civilized country and those lacking in civility.

Never even tried to present myself as an expert in Scotland/England relations. Just admire the way they sorted it out so far.

By the way, if a Scott is a name how do you indicate his Nationality - Scot?

Equally, if a Britt is a name of a British man - Brit?

This is a genuine question, since I am neither of the two. Sounds weird to me.

Thanks for the reply. You need a Scottish person to answer some of this. It seems to be a touchy issue.

It can appear strange. Great Britain is the island of England/Wales/Scotland but the United Kingdom includes northern Ireland.

Therefore, all living in GB are British or Brit for short. That is why northern Ireland use the term Unionists, as part of the UK.

Having said that, I am 73 y.o. but have always thought of Scotland/Wales/England as separate countries with their own identity but within a common union. (and good friends).

Mind you, I can understand Scotland's frustration at times, even within the UK. Although we have a common currency there are many shops and businesses' in England who will not accept Scottish banknotes. (They are somewhat different to English ones). It's quite outrageous and I have had it happen to me after returning from a business trip to Aberdeen.. Also, a friend of mine in Pattaya tried to change Scottish banknotes at a money exchange and they refused - as though he had landed from Mars.

. The Benelux countries spring to mind is a very loose sense, but I have no idea how formal that expression is, or if it's even used these days.

In conclusion, whatever the frustrations, the UK is a small island off the west coast of Europe and it seems to me unrealistic to start fragmenting this island any further. (I only say this after the vote, as it wasn't my ballot).

I'm sure some constitutional expert on this forum can explain it better than me.

Thanks for info. I really do not know much about the fine differences between GB, UK etc.

Visited London for a week once only. Loved it. Still kicking myself for not going to Ireland (it was a 'hot spot'at the time) or Scotland.

I only asked the question because some guy humoured my spelling. I have been taught this way.

To me, an outsider, England is the whole island but I am not insisting on this.

I totally agree with you about poor results of fragmentation of many European countries.

That includes in my opinion Chechs and Slovaks, almost all of former Yugoslavia etc.

On the other hand in my opinion EU is an unnatural clumsy attempt to marry totally incompatible Nations.

But it is my unqualified belief of no consequence.

Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg) was in use only before WWII as far as I remember.

BTW I understand Scottish accent much better than Cockney I have heard in London. I thought I know English, but...

[Richard W]

By the way, if a Scott is a name how do you indicate his Nationality - Scot?

Equally, if a Britt is a name of a British man - Brit?

A member of the Scottish people is a Scot, with the words Scots(wo)man also being available.

The colloquial form of Briton is Brit. Brit only has association with the British Isles - it has no reference to Bretons, who as a people descend from Ancient Britons.

The term 'nationality' in a discussion of Scottish independence is horribly vague. While it may refer to membership of a people, it can also refer to the relationship to a state, as in the question of British passports, and it can be a formalised ethnic subdivision of citizens, as in the systems of China and the Soviet Union. (I don't know how much the Soviet Union's system survives in its successor states.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by Richard W

[sustento]

ABCer. Let's get something straight. In my original post I merely pointed out that Czechoslovakia had held a peaceful referendum over 20 years ago and still had some minor problems to resolve. I was trying to indicate that an independent Scotland would take years to disentangle itself from the rest of the UK and vice versa.

The other contributions were simply to indicate other countries which had 'fragmented' by different means. None, in my view, were seeking to diretly link Scotland with the bloodbaths of Kosova etc.

It's OK, emilymat. I have no problems with your analogies.

Just was trying to emphasize the difference between a civilized country and those lacking in civility.

Never even tried to present myself as an expert in Scotland/England relations. Just admire the way they sorted it out so far.

By the way, if a Scott is a name how do you indicate his Nationality - Scot?

Equally, if a Britt is a name of a British man - Brit?

This is a genuine question, since I am neither of the two. Sounds weird to me.

Thanks for the reply. You need a Scottish person to answer some of this. It seems to be a touchy issue.

It can appear strange. Great Britain is the island of England/Wales/Scotland but the United Kingdom includes northern Ireland.

Therefore, all living in GB are British or Brit for short. That is why northern Ireland use the term Unionists, as part of the UK.

Having said that, I am 73 y.o. but have always thought of Scotland/Wales/England as separate countries with their own identity but within a common union. (and good friends).

Mind you, I can understand Scotland's frustration at times, even within the UK. Although we have a common currency there are many shops and businesses' in England who will not accept Scottish banknotes. (They are somewhat different to English ones). It's quite outrageous and I have had it happen to me after returning from a business trip to Aberdeen.. Also, a friend of mine in Pattaya tried to change Scottish banknotes at a money exchange and they refused - as though he had landed from Mars.

. The Benelux countries spring to mind is a very loose sense, but I have no idea how formal that expression is, or if it's even used these days.

In conclusion, whatever the frustrations, the UK is a small island off the west coast of Europe and it seems to me unrealistic to start fragmenting this island any further. (I only say this after the vote, as it wasn't my ballot).

I'm sure some constitutional expert on this forum can explain it better than me.

Thanks for info. I really do not know much about the fine differences between GB, UK etc.

Visited London for a week once only. Loved it. Still kicking myself for not going to Ireland (it was a 'hot spot'at the time) or Scotland.

I only asked the question because some guy humoured my spelling. I have been taught this way.

To me, an outsider, England is the whole island but I am not insisting on this.

I totally agree with you about poor results of fragmentation of many European countries.

That includes in my opinion Chechs and Slovaks, almost all of former Yugoslavia etc.

On the other hand in my opinion EU is an unnatural clumsy attempt to marry totally incompatible Nations.

But it is my unqualified belief of no consequence.

Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg) was in use only before WWII as far as I remember.

BTW I understand Scottish accent much better than Cockney I have heard in London. I thought I know English, but...

[Jaggg88]

Freedom to Scotland!

I agree and I do hope that once they get independence they will look favorably on any attempts by the Shetland Islands to get their independence if they so wish and who might have no desire to be dominated by a government in far off Edinburgh.

and I believe Shetland have a better claim than Scotland on the oil and gas