English teaching needs a bottom-up approach: Thai editorial

[Lorn]

But there in is one of the problems " educated native speakers"

1 most "teachers" are not properly educated

2. They are not real teachers

3. The only reason they are teaching is they want to stay in Thailand can't get a job and use "teaching" to support their holiday life style

Rather than employing some backpacker who can't tie his shoe laces without asking mummy to "teach" they would be better getting some real teachers in Thailand who can mentor and develop the current Thai English teachers

Do you realize how little a degree in education gives one? When I was in school the department of Education toned down all the subjects so teachers could pass. Like, biology for elementary education majors as opposed to biology for everyone else.

It does not take a brain trust to teach Thai children 100 words of English and that would be a 100% improvement over what they learn now. Thai English teachers can't say 100 words in English let alone their students!

This is why most good schools take someone with an undergraduate degree majoring in Biology, Accountancy, Maths etc. +PGCE over someone with a B.Ed. Well high schools anyway, those teaching kindergarten or junior school should be ok with their watered down version of the teaching subjects and more focus on pedagogy, classroom management etc.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Lorn

[AnnieT]

Education in Thailand will not change until their culture changes, and that would be helped by an incrementally increased focus on quality management.

Thai teachers aren't interested in speaking English, they think the best language in the world is Thai na ka. They're interested in doing the bare minimum to get the bit of paper which says they're excellent in all things so they can get more pay. Consequently they only ever lear what is easy for them, and that is mostly Thainglish.

Until that changes, which I agree will take a long time, nothing else will change, it is a core requirement for upgrading Thais from the 19th Century to the 21st. Perhaps then the most time-consuming part of drafting a new charter will not be writing it by hand in some special book.

The Lanna and Sukhothai kingdoms died some time ago because they repeatedly got their bums kicked until their noses bled, but I think many Thais are unaware, and still like to recall and associate with their imagined glories. Just stand outside a film showing of any of the Naruesuan films and watch all the (Thai) likely lads come out on a high of patriotic pride and invincibility. It's quite comical in its way.

Edited September 16, 2015 by AnnieT

[ronwparker]

Despite the reforms Thai education is still too much learning by rote .Even most of the Universities are poor.They are still the worst at English in ASEAN where English is the only common language!

There are some fairly good private schools but they are expensive.

[AnnieT]

Despite the reforms Thai education is still too much learning by rote .Even most of the Universities are poor.They are still the worst at English in ASEAN where English is the only common language!

There are some fairly good private schools but they are expensive.

Yes, well, I've taught at some of the good private schools and all is not quite how it appears. Nor why it appears so. Remember the no-fail policy.

[lostoday]

Just as a point of interest lostoday.

Are you a qualified teacher with a licence to teach here in Thailand and or also a U.K, Q.T..S. and or its equivalent from other countries in the world.

I hold such qualifications as do a good many others here do..

English is not the only subject taught here using the English language as the medium of instruction you know.

What is your point?

[AnnieT]

Just as a point of interest lostoday.

Are you a qualified teacher with a licence to teach here in Thailand and or also a U.K, Q.T..S. and or its equivalent from other countries in the world.

I hold such qualifications as do a good many others here do..

English is not the only subject taught here using the English language as the medium of instruction you know.

What is your point?

His point is to start measuring.

[AnnieT]

Despite the reforms Thai education is still too much learning by rote .Even most of the Universities are poor.They are still the worst at English in ASEAN where English is the only common language!

There are some fairly good private schools but they are expensive.

A foreigner of my acquaintance once tried to get a job at a London hospital using a Thai Master's degree.

He says he won't be doing that again, they weren't very impressed and he didn't get the job. Which is a pity because he was actually more than competent in his field.

[NOC]

Ummm, ground control to space cadet. Come in space cadet....

Pay the teachers well, get rid of the visa problems, create a culture where people want to help you.

Nope!

As long as you have a system where you have 55 students crammed into one room, everyone is copying off everybody else.

There is so much noise not only in the classroom but in the hallways that one must use a portable loudspeaker and still the students that want

to learn cannot hear you.

What has to change is the behaviour of the students. They don't care, they know they will pass no matter what.

Admin doesn't care to help unless the students are a part of the EP program because those parents paid therefore said students are considered more valuable.

You can pay the teachers a million baht a month, but this culture still won't want you because you are not Thai and you actually don't belong here.

The more you make the more resentment it generates from the educated Thai professional vs the uneducated native speakers.

Equality is where it's at. If you want to live and work here, then there should be no visa special requirements, but you do earn what the others earn.

No Thai teacher in the US or UK is going to make 2 or 3 times what an American or Brit makes just for being a native speaker.

Equality is the key. We should be able to live here, we should have no visa issues, we should have a "green" card to pay our share of the taxes.

Stop comparing wages in the west to those here, that makes you a temp or substitute and you really can't be taken seriously.

My statements were to be taken as chapters in a book. The key details are in the chapters.

Re: The more you make, the more resentment it generates from the educated Thai professional vs the uneducated native speaker.

Whew! Where in the world do come up with this?

First, lets take the word, 'educated'. I haven't met many 'educated' people, Thai or otherwise, who resent someone because of their income. If they do, they might be educated, but they aren't balanced properly in the cranium.

Second, your argument re: 'educated Thai professionals vs uneducated native speakers' doesn't hold water. The educated Thai professionals, for the most part, got their education in the west. You know, that place where you can't buy a degree...

Third, I didn't make any salary comparisons. You pulled that rabbit out of your.....hat?

You can now return to your regularly scheduled programming. Chok dee.

[lostoday]

Despite the reforms Thai education is still too much learning by rote .Even most of the Universities are poor.They are still the worst at English in ASEAN where English is the only common language!

There are some fairly good private schools but they are expensive.

I don't think anyone is talking about education at a university level. Rote learning is essential for learning the basics unless you have another way to teach, "30 days hath September."

Thinking back on my college career I believe it was after my 6th year that a professor finally asked my opinion about something and I think that was on a date with my philosophy instructor. She asked if I wanted cream in my coffee.

Mostly my instructors were more concerned that I supported my conclusions with authorities more knowledgeable than myself.

sophomoric or sophomorical

[sof-uh-mawr-ik, -mor-]

Spell Syllables

• Synonyms
• Word Origin

adjective

1.

of or relating to a sophomore or sophomores.

2.

suggestive of or resembling the traditional sophomore; intellectually pretentious, overconfident, conceited, etc., but immature:

Edited September 16, 2015 by lostoday

[lostoday]

Just as a point of interest lostoday.

Are you a qualified teacher with a licence to teach here in Thailand and or also a U.K, Q.T..S. and or its equivalent from other countries in the world.

I hold such qualifications as do a good many others here do..

English is not the only subject taught here using the English language as the medium of instruction you know.

What is your point?

His point is to start measuring.

Did I ask you? Sit down raise your hand and wait till you are called on.

[timber]

1. Teachers are lectures not teachers. See problems in grade three in rural areas with teachers expecting students to learn by themselves. 4 students in the class..

2. No continuity between classes. All the teachers do their own thing. Grade four does not build on knowledge gained in grade three.

3. Teachers are not empowered to work with the students they have. Guidelines are passed down from someone who doesn't understand the rural kids have had less exposure to than in Bangkok.

4. Thailand doesn't seem to have any desire, or lack of funds in the public school system to stream the students. Twenty - thirty percent of the students are way more capable of learning English.

The bottom 70% of the students severely hold back the advanced students.

5. Class size is often too big. When it comes to English. 30% of the students should receive advanced English, and 70% less intense and street English rather than teacher English.

6. Teachers are not empowered or accountable. Needs to be a national test to access the level of education across Thailand, with consideration or a different test for Bangkok and major centers, than

the smaller rural areas. I find that teachers and students in rural areas don't care. The kids are smart enough, just don't have the delivery system. If you haven't been empowered, then it is a major

move to become empowered.

7. To do something in the immediate future, need to have a very good system of videos and interaction internet system that takes care of the needs of the students in a meaningful way. Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup.

[AnnieT]

Just as a point of interest lostoday.

Are you a qualified teacher with a licence to teach here in Thailand and or also a U.K, Q.T..S. and or its equivalent from other countries in the world.

I hold such qualifications as do a good many others here do..

English is not the only subject taught here using the English language as the medium of instruction you know.

What is your point?

His point is to start measuring.

Did I ask you? Sit down raise your hand and wait till you are called on.

Ah. Another graduate of the Thai education system. It always shows. Presumably you would quite like to do some measuring as well?

[AnnieT]

1. Teachers are lectures not teachers. See problems in grade three in rural areas with teachers expecting students to learn by themselves. 4 students in the class..

2. No continuity between classes. All the teachers do their own thing. Grade four does not build on knowledge gained in grade three.

3. Teachers are not empowered to work with the students they have. Guidelines are passed down from someone who doesn't understand the rural kids have had less exposure to than in Bangkok.

4. Thailand doesn't seem to have any desire, or lack of funds in the public school system to stream the students. Twenty - thirty percent of the students are way more capable of learning English.

The bottom 70% of the students severely hold back the advanced students.

5. Class size is often too big. When it comes to English. 30% of the students should receive advanced English, and 70% less intense and street English rather than teacher English.

6. Teachers are not empowered or accountable. Needs to be a national test to access the level of education across Thailand, with consideration or a different test for Bangkok and major centers, than

the smaller rural areas. I find that teachers and students in rural areas don't care. The kids are smart enough, just don't have the delivery system. If you haven't been empowered, then it is a major

move to become empowered.

7. To do something in the immediate future, need to have a very good system of videos and interaction internet system that takes care of the needs of the students in a meaningful way. Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup.

All the teachers do their own thing.

In my opinion, this sums up the Thai dilemma. Vide the bombing and the multitudinous contradictory comments from people who should have been more disciplined should now more s_t_f_u_ology . It's a widespread problem in Thailand, they're only ever taught to do their own thing. Not exactly good team players. Ever watched a Thai football team?

Edited September 16, 2015 by AnnieT

[lostoday]

1. Teachers are lectures not teachers. See problems in grade three in rural areas with teachers expecting students to learn by themselves. 4 students in the class..

2. No continuity between classes. All the teachers do their own thing. Grade four does not build on knowledge gained in grade three.

3. Teachers are not empowered to work with the students they have. Guidelines are passed down from someone who doesn't understand the rural kids have had less exposure to than in Bangkok.

4. Thailand doesn't seem to have any desire, or lack of funds in the public school system to stream the students. Twenty - thirty percent of the students are way more capable of learning English.

The bottom 70% of the students severely hold back the advanced students.

5. Class size is often too big. When it comes to English. 30% of the students should receive advanced English, and 70% less intense and street English rather than teacher English.

6. Teachers are not empowered or accountable. Needs to be a national test to access the level of education across Thailand, with consideration or a different test for Bangkok and major centers, than

the smaller rural areas. I find that teachers and students in rural areas don't care. The kids are smart enough, just don't have the delivery system. If you haven't been empowered, then it is a major

move to become empowered.

7. To do something in the immediate future, need to have a very good system of videos and interaction internet system that takes care of the needs of the students in a meaningful way. Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup.

Your English is difficult for me to understand. It reads like you are using an on line translator from another language. Knowing what is a pronoun, verb, nouns, simple sentences may be admirable skills but if you can't communicate a thought, hardly valuable.

Take #7 for example. "7. To do something in the immediate future, need to have a very good system of videos and interaction internet system that takes care of the needs of the students in a meaningful way. Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup."

I have no idea what you are trying to communicate. Have someone who speaks English and has some actual teaching experience translate it for you.

Edited September 16, 2015 by lostoday

[AnnieT]

1. Teachers are lectures not teachers. See problems in grade three in rural areas with teachers expecting students to learn by themselves. 4 students in the class..

2. No continuity between classes. All the teachers do their own thing. Grade four does not build on knowledge gained in grade three.

3. Teachers are not empowered to work with the students they have. Guidelines are passed down from someone who doesn't understand the rural kids have had less exposure to than in Bangkok.

4. Thailand doesn't seem to have any desire, or lack of funds in the public school system to stream the students. Twenty - thirty percent of the students are way more capable of learning English.

The bottom 70% of the students severely hold back the advanced students.

5. Class size is often too big. When it comes to English. 30% of the students should receive advanced English, and 70% less intense and street English rather than teacher English.

6. Teachers are not empowered or accountable. Needs to be a national test to access the level of education across Thailand, with consideration or a different test for Bangkok and major centers, than

the smaller rural areas. I find that teachers and students in rural areas don't care. The kids are smart enough, just don't have the delivery system. If you haven't been empowered, then it is a major

move to become empowered.

7. To do something in the immediate future, need to have a very good system of videos and interaction internet system that takes care of the needs of the students in a meaningful way. Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup.

Your English is difficult for me to understand. It reads like you are using an on line translator from another language. Knowing what is a pronoun, verb, nouns, simple sentences may be admirable skills but if you can't communicate a thought, hardly valuable.

Take #7 for example. "7. To do something in the immediate future, need to have a very good system of videos and interaction internet system that takes care of the needs of the students in a meaningful way. Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup."

I have no idea what you are trying to communicate. Have someone who speaks English translate it for you.

Off-topic

[lostoday]

1. Teachers are lectures not teachers. See problems in grade three in rural areas with teachers expecting students to learn by themselves. 4 students in the class..

2. No continuity between classes. All the teachers do their own thing. Grade four does not build on knowledge gained in grade three.

3. Teachers are not empowered to work with the students they have. Guidelines are passed down from someone who doesn't understand the rural kids have had less exposure to than in Bangkok.

4. Thailand doesn't seem to have any desire, or lack of funds in the public school system to stream the students. Twenty - thirty percent of the students are way more capable of learning English.

The bottom 70% of the students severely hold back the advanced students.

5. Class size is often too big. When it comes to English. 30% of the students should receive advanced English, and 70% less intense and street English rather than teacher English.

6. Teachers are not empowered or accountable. Needs to be a national test to access the level of education across Thailand, with consideration or a different test for Bangkok and major centers, than

the smaller rural areas. I find that teachers and students in rural areas don't care. The kids are smart enough, just don't have the delivery system. If you haven't been empowered, then it is a major

move to become empowered.

7. To do something in the immediate future, need to have a very good system of videos and interaction internet system that takes care of the needs of the students in a meaningful way. Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup.

Your English is difficult for me to understand. It reads like you are using an on line translator from another language. Knowing what is a pronoun, verb, nouns, simple sentences may be admirable skills but if you can't communicate a thought, hardly valuable.

Take #7 for example. "7. To do something in the immediate future, need to have a very good system of videos and interaction internet system that takes care of the needs of the students in a meaningful way. Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup."

I have no idea what you are trying to communicate. Have someone who speaks English translate it for you.

Off-topic

I don't know. Maybe the poster was trying to communicate something about teaching from the bottom up but I could not understand his use of the English language.

For example, "Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup."

What does the above mean?

[GeckosDiving]

I've been living and working in Thailand for over 20 years now and I've got to know a lot of teachers here in that time and 99.5 are absolute nut cases I mean I wouldn't let them near my kids let alone teach them !!!! The other .5 are solid people can see in their eyes and hear in their voice plus the way they conduct them selves they know how to teach and love doing so.

Just my opinion I've been known to be wrong sometimes just ask my wife.

[maidee]

see it this way:

children everywhere in the world, learn to speak from their environment, many years before they learn to write the language ...

so, even the teachers failed the governement test, it is important to interact with the children and learn them to SPEAK, writing is another thing

if they want thais to interact face to face with tourists, will they do this in writing or in understandable face-to-face time in the resorts, restaurants, massage parlors ???

[lostoday]

What is your point?

His point is to start measuring.

Did I ask you? Sit down raise your hand and wait till you are called on.

Ah. Another graduate of the Thai education system. It always shows. Presumably you would quite like to do some measuring as well?

You answer a question that I did not ask you with an answer that makes no sense and now a comment about my education which makes no sense and another statement about measuring that makes no sense. Make a statement or answer a question sensibly and I'll be more than happy to comment.

[lostoday]

see it this way:

children everywhere in the world, learn to speak from their environment, many years before they learn to write the language ...

so, even the teachers failed the governement test, it is important to interact with the children and learn them to SPEAK, writing is another thing

if they want thais to interact face to face with tourists, will they do this in writing or in understandable face-to-face time in the resorts, restaurants, massage parlors ???

Thai children start in school at 3 years of age. Can't be too difficult to give them an English experience daily given anyone in the school system spoke English.

[lostoday]

I've been living and working in Thailand for over 20 years now and I've got to know a lot of teachers here in that time and 99.5 are absolute nut cases I mean I wouldn't let them near my kids let alone teach them !!!! The other .5 are solid people can see in their eyes and hear in their voice plus the way they conduct them selves they know how to teach and love doing so.

Just my opinion I've been known to be wrong sometimes just ask my wife.

I've been living in Thailand for 20 years and 99.5% of the expats I've known here dropped out of high school.

[Soutpeel]

I've been living and working in Thailand for over 20 years now and I've got to know a lot of teachers here in that time and 99.5 are absolute nut cases I mean I wouldn't let them near my kids let alone teach them !!!! The other .5 are solid people can see in their eyes and hear in their voice plus the way they conduct them selves they know how to teach and love doing so.

Just my opinion I've been known to be wrong sometimes just ask my wife.

I've been living in Thailand for 20 years and 99.5% of the expats I've known here dropped out of high school.

Your should associate with a better class of expats then

[lostoday]

I've been living and working in Thailand for over 20 years now and I've got to know a lot of teachers here in that time and 99.5 are absolute nut cases I mean I wouldn't let them near my kids let alone teach them !!!! The other .5 are solid people can see in their eyes and hear in their voice plus the way they conduct them selves they know how to teach and love doing so.

Just my opinion I've been known to be wrong sometimes just ask my wife.

I've been living in Thailand for 20 years and 99.5% of the expats I've known here dropped out of high school.

Your should associate with a better class of expats then

You know them rig pigs ain't the brightest group on the planet.

[maidee]

anybody wonders how would the THAI teachers that teach angrit have scored on the test imposed to farangs

i mean, without them being given the answer and allowed to cheat, off course ...

make it a writing & speaking test ... how many would pass ?

[SaamBaht]

Listening first. Learning second. This may sound cynical, but Thais have poor listening skills.

[MaxLee]

Listening first. Learning second. This may sound cynical, but Thais have poor listening skills.

,... social behavior and help for one another always comes first......

[lostoday]

Listening first. Learning second. This may sound cynical, but Thais have poor listening skills.

Thais as a group have nothing in common except perhaps black hair. Some Thais have poor listening skills would be the correct way of phrasing your statement.

[AnnieT]

1. Teachers are lectures not teachers. See problems in grade three in rural areas with teachers expecting students to learn by themselves. 4 students in the class..

2. No continuity between classes. All the teachers do their own thing. Grade four does not build on knowledge gained in grade three.

3. Teachers are not empowered to work with the students they have. Guidelines are passed down from someone who doesn't understand the rural kids have had less exposure to than in Bangkok.

4. Thailand doesn't seem to have any desire, or lack of funds in the public school system to stream the students. Twenty - thirty percent of the students are way more capable of learning English.

The bottom 70% of the students severely hold back the advanced students.

5. Class size is often too big. When it comes to English. 30% of the students should receive advanced English, and 70% less intense and street English rather than teacher English.

6. Teachers are not empowered or accountable. Needs to be a national test to access the level of education across Thailand, with consideration or a different test for Bangkok and major centers, than

the smaller rural areas. I find that teachers and students in rural areas don't care. The kids are smart enough, just don't have the delivery system. If you haven't been empowered, then it is a major

move to become empowered.

7. To do something in the immediate future, need to have a very good system of videos and interaction internet system that takes care of the needs of the students in a meaningful way. Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup.

Your English is difficult for me to understand. It reads like you are using an on line translator from another language. Knowing what is a pronoun, verb, nouns, simple sentences may be admirable skills but if you can't communicate a thought, hardly valuable.

Take #7 for example. "7. To do something in the immediate future, need to have a very good system of videos and interaction internet system that takes care of the needs of the students in a meaningful way. Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup."

I have no idea what you are trying to communicate. Have someone who speaks English translate it for you.

Off-topic

I don't know. Maybe the poster was trying to communicate something about teaching from the bottom up but I could not understand his use of the English language.

For example, "Not videos on learning

English, but on interactive classes on using pronouns, verbs, nouns simple sentences, etc., with adequate followup."

What does the above mean?

Maybe it's code for "Did I ask you? Sit down raise your hand and wait till you are called on."

Maybe under the facade he's just a jerk with a courtesy deficit. Oh, sorry, it wasn't him who said that.

[petedk]

I haven't read all the posts yet but I have seen a lot of blame put on the quality of the Thai teachers.

I would like to put just as much blame on the students themselves.

Some simply don't have the right attitude for learning . They turn up without books, play around with their mobiles, iPads or whatever.

They know they can't fail at university level.

The students that want to speak English well make an effort to learn. They are active in listening outside class. They read, they speak and can learn to speak English well even if the teachers aren't up to scratch.

The whole education system needs a shake up. You can employ the world's best English teachers but if the students' attitudes aren't changed it won't make any difference.

[lildragon]

I haven't read all the posts yet but I have seen a lot of blame put on the quality of the Thai teachers.

I would like to put just as much blame on the students themselves.

Some simply don't have the right attitude for learning . They turn up without books, play around with their mobiles, iPads or whatever.

They know they can't fail at university level.

The students that want to speak English well make an effort to learn. They are active in listening outside class. They read, they speak and can learn to speak English well even if the teachers aren't up to scratch.

The whole education system needs a shake up. You can employ the world's best English teachers but if the students' attitudes aren't changed it won't make any difference.

I think the students are the biggest victim of the system. Some of them are nonchalant and don't care because they know they can't fail. That's the systems failure, not the students.