The Phuket property nightmare

[MaeJoMTB]

So Soda, wife #1 transferred Rance's properties out of the company, removed him as a company director, and had a forged power of attorney to eliminate the remaining 30 year property lease.

I believe wife #1 legally cancelled the lease on the family home, (using the right to unilaterally cancel any contract made within marriage) then sold it.

Apparently this was the ruling of the judge in the case.

The fraud charge was about forging a signature to change directorship in the company, a company solely created to illegally buy Thai land.

Not much sympathy here either, foreigners are only allowed to own 49% of a Thai company, preferred shares, and shares held by nominees seem illegal to me.

Edited September 25, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[slipperx]

So Soda, wife #1 transferred Rance's properties out of the company, removed him as a company director, and had a forged power of attorney to eliminate the remaining 30 year property lease.

I believe wife #1 legally cancelled the lease on the family home, (using the right to unilaterally cancel any contract made within marriage) then sold it.

Apparently this was the ruling of the judge in the case.

The fraud charge was about forging a signature to change directorship in the company, a company solely created to illegally buy Thai land.

Not much sympathy here either, foreigners are only allowed to own 49% of a Thai company, preferred shares, and shares held by nominees seem illegal to me.

Not legally married and cancellation was by fraud. Read Section 86 and 94 of the Thailand Land Code. I did not have over 49% of shares but was major investor and required Director to sign. This is very normal in Thailand,

So what you are basically saying is fraud is OK if against a foreigner?

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[bazza40]

Strange why foreigners even think of investing in Thailand, when clearly there is enough information out there.

1) Foreigners do not have any rights in Thailand.

2) In most cases foreigners are not even acknowledged by Thais or by the Thai system.

3) To Thais, foreigners are only ATM's on legs, nothing more.

4) Foreigners will never be accepted by Thais as equals.

5) There is no legal justice for foreigners.

6) Thailand is only for Thais.

Keep your money out of Thailand, only rent, then you will be fine.

If you don't understand the above, best not to even come.

Strange why people find it necessary to write this nonsense, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary of this post.

What evidence?

[slipperx]

So Soda, wife #1 transferred Rance's properties out of the company, removed him as a company director, and had a forged power of attorney to eliminate the remaining 30 year property lease.

I believe wife #1 legally cancelled the lease on the family home, (using the right to unilaterally cancel any contract made within marriage) then sold it.

Apparently this was the ruling of the judge in the case.

The fraud charge was about forging a signature to change directorship in the company, a company solely created to illegally buy Thai land.

Not much sympathy here either, foreigners are only allowed to own 49% of a Thai company, preferred shares, and shares held by nominees seem illegal to me.

You might also like to check the law on property projects.

What is clear is no one really knows the law and those that just say don't touch anything to do with property may be very wise but they are not giving any information on the law at all.

As for fraudulently cancelled leases I bet there are thousands with leases from their partner here. So they are all idiots and fools? There are thousands who also use companies to buy a house here which the judge said was the preferred method - is she wrong? The answer is about the way the laws are so loosely written, the corruption used to get a decision you want by foul means and the interpretations from case to case depending on the whim of the judge hearing it because there is no complete law of precedent and even where Dika cases are relevant the court if first instance can easily twist the reasons for dismissal in a dozen ways to avoid following it. The end result is a Justice system wholly and greatly unjust towards foreigners for multiple reasons I will not go into

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[MaeJoMTB]

So what you are basically saying is fraud is OK if against a foreigner?

No, what I'm saying is,

If two drug gangs fight it out over a drug shipment, nobody really cares who gets hurt, or who ends up holding the shipment.

It's sad you've lost money, I've lost money in Thailand too.

Best to forget about the past and get on with your life, while they still allow you to have one.

Edited September 25, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Nip]

What ever you think about these guys this effects everyone of us

No, it only affects criminal foreigners trying to own land illegally in Thailand.

I see many here advise to ignore your comments. I shall do likewise. Pity the Forum does not have a button to block me having to read your inane comments. I have forgotten the word that describes people who are so stupid that they dont realise they are stupid. MaeJoMTB? No too much of a mouth full!

[abrahamzvi]

To me the most important thing to take away from the article is how useless and corrupt the Thai lawyers and legal system is.

First he got screwed by his wife, then he got screwed by the lawyers and corrupt legal system.

And lets not even start on the moneylenders.

Thailand, corrupt to the core.

If it is so bad, with which I completely disagree, then why do you stay here, which I assume you do?

[huawei]

Strange why foreigners even think of investing in Thailand, when clearly there is enough information out there.

1) Foreigners do not have any rights in Thailand.

2) In most cases foreigners are not even acknowledged by Thais or by the Thai system.

3) To Thais, foreigners are only ATM's on legs, nothing more.

4) Foreigners will never be accepted by Thais as equals.

5) There is no legal justice for foreigners.

6) Thailand is only for Thais.

Keep your money out of Thailand, only rent, then you will be fine.

If you don't understand the above, best not to even come.

1 yes they do but they don't know what they are or how to exercise them.

2. No, foreigners and western society is basically superior in many ways.

3. Depends who you mix with, in issaan they seem to think that. Handed down through generations.

4. Why do you want to be equal with a Thai or anyone, just be yourself.

5. Yes there is. I had a good lawyer..

6. Well that makes sense as it is their country. What do you expect..

[huawei]

So Soda, wife #1 transferred Rance's properties out of the company, removed him as a company director, and had a forged power of attorney to eliminate the remaining 30 year property lease.

I believe wife #1 legally cancelled the lease on the family home, (using the right to unilaterally cancel any contract made within marriage) then sold it.

Apparently this was the ruling of the judge in the case.

The fraud charge was about forging a signature to change directorship in the company, a company solely created to illegally buy Thai land.

Not much sympathy here either, foreigners are only allowed to own 49% of a Thai company, preferred shares, and shares held by nominees seem illegal to me.

You might also like to check the law on property projects.

What is clear is no one really knows the law and those that just say don't touch anything to do with property may be very wise but they are not giving any information on the law at all.

As for fraudulently cancelled leases I bet there are thousands with leases from their partner here. So they are all idiots and fools? There are thousands who also use companies to buy a house here which the judge said was the preferred method - is she wrong? The answer is about the way the laws are so loosely written, the corruption used to get a decision you want by foul means and the interpretations from case to case depending on the whim of the judge hearing it because there is no complete law of precedent and even where Dika cases are relevant the court if first instance can easily twist the reasons for dismissal in a dozen ways to avoid following it. The end result is a Justice system wholly and greatly unjust towards foreigners for multiple reasons I will not go into

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I have a lot of sympathy for what you say.

But buying a house through a company was and never has been recommended to me by my local lawyer or the very expensive legal firm who advised me when I worked for an international company here in the early 90's. It became popular when foreign developers started selling it as a vehicles to other foreigners.

Yes, people don't understand that there is no law of precedent, and even a Supreme Court judgement invariably has to be taken further to enforce the Judgement.

Foreigners have absolutely no chance in the court of first instance ( the local court), but influence might be less at the appeal court, that is my experience.

Good luck..

[Singharh]

Safest way to buy property with Thai wife, put down a small deposit, bond in her name and you pay the bond. If she leaves you , she is saddled with the bond. You would have paid rent anyway so you not out of pocket .

[Sviss Geez]

Yea and we come down to that what he did to loos the £1 million was actually by breaking the Thai law.

Forming a proxy company with nominees is... ILLEGAL

Wife buying land/property with HIS money is...ILLEGAL

If you did't already know that or don't trust me then just google it and you see!

He didn't form a "proxy" company, the properties were owned by an existing legitimate company he used for his business. LEGAL

He didn't have property in his wife's name paid for with his money. LEGAL

Go google it, you'll see!

[NamKangMan]

If the guy didn't remarry and have yet another kid I might feel sorry for him. Now he's broke and can't afford to go back to his home country?

Sorry Charlie, you did this to yourself.

Cheers.

"But the new wife is different."

[Sviss Geez]

These guys have kids so i dont understand why the land wasnt put into their names.

Because then they appear not to " trust" the wife. It's a pack of cards if things go wrong.

His mistake was " eggs in one basket"..

Nothing to do with it, the properties were in his company's name, he didn't need to use his wife or children.

[Sviss Geez]

What ever you think about these guys this effects everyone of us

How exactly?

[Sviss Geez]

So true all over Thailand. They will believe Thai wife even tough she never had 1 baht before being married.

What is so true, Nobb? Both of the wives in these cases are in jail.

[huawei]

These guys have kids so i dont understand why the land wasnt put into their names.

Because then they appear not to " trust" the wife. It's a pack of cards if things go wrong.

His mistake was " eggs in one basket"..

Nothing to do with it, the properties were in his company's name, he didn't need to use his wife or children.

What I was implying that he shouldn't have used the company route.

[puukao]

this guy should have bought shares in AAPL and GOOG and then took his profits to speculate.

don't these guys understand hindsight!!!

i was in love once.....once......i was blind to reason.....cost me 40 baht

never again

[Sviss Geez]

Strange why foreigners even think of investing in Thailand, when clearly there is enough information out there.

1) Foreigners do not have any rights in Thailand.

2) In most cases foreigners are not even acknowledged by Thais or by the Thai system.

3) To Thais, foreigners are only ATM's on legs, nothing more.

4) Foreigners will never be accepted by Thais as equals.

5) There is no legal justice for foreigners.

6) Thailand is only for Thais.

Keep your money out of Thailand, only rent, then you will be fine.

If you don't understand the above, best not to even come.

Strange why people find it necessary to write this nonsense, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary of this post.

Please state the evidence Oh wise one

He doesn't need to, any rational person knows that what he said is true, oh dull one.

[NamKangMan]

Strange why foreigners even think of investing in Thailand, when clearly there is enough information out there.

1) Foreigners do not have any rights in Thailand.

2) In most cases foreigners are not even acknowledged by Thais or by the Thai system.

3) To Thais, foreigners are only ATM's on legs, nothing more.

4) Foreigners will never be accepted by Thais as equals.

5) There is no legal justice for foreigners.

6) Thailand is only for Thais.

Keep your money out of Thailand, only rent, then you will be fine.

If you don't understand the above, best not to even come.

1 yes they do but they don't know what they are or how to exercise them.

2. No, foreigners and western society is basically superior in many ways.

3. Depends who you mix with, in issaan they seem to think that. Handed down through generations.

4. Why do you want to be equal with a Thai or anyone, just be yourself.

5. Yes there is. I had a good lawyer..

6. Well that makes sense as it is their country. What do you expect..

"1 yes they do but they don't know what they are or how to exercise them" - what "rights" does a foreigner have here? I am talking about "rights" the same as a Thai citizen. I think you will find a foreigner must pay for any "services" here.

"2. No, foreigners and western society is basically superior in many ways." - yes, because we have a more developed society and economy, but that doesn't mean the Thai's recognise this fact.

"3. Depends who you mix with, in issaan they seem to think that. Handed down through generations." - Issan is in Thailand, is it not? Thai's from Issan are still Thai's.

"4. Why do you want to be equal with a Thai or anyone, just be yourself." - probably because "yourself" as a foreigner, will NEVER be accepted here. Thailand refuses to accept it's a multicultural society, whether they like it, or not.

"5. Yes there is. I had a good lawyer." - a lawyer was involved in the illegal company stucture that purchased this property, and a lawyer was also involved in the theft of this property. What does that say about lawyers, and the judicial system, in Thailand?

"6. Well that makes sense as it is their country. What do you expect." - well, why do they promote Thailand to tourists for a holiday, and to expats as a place to retire?

[Sviss Geez]

I can see the BBC being blocked soon if they keep stating the facts about this place

Block a UK state owned enterprise? Never.

[Sviss Geez]

What ever you think about these guys this effects everyone of us

No, it only affects criminal foreigners trying to own land illegally in Thailand.

No, it doesn't, both of these men owned property and land legally in legitimate company names.

[NamKangMan]

These guys have kids so i dont understand why the land wasnt put into their names.

Because then they appear not to " trust" the wife. It's a pack of cards if things go wrong.

His mistake was " eggs in one basket"..

Nothing to do with it, the properties were in his company's name, he didn't need to use his wife or children.

What I was implying that he shouldn't have used the company route.

I agree.

He should have used "the rent route."

His 1.2 million quid would still be in the UK, and he would still be happily married with his "pay as you go" wife and still having a great time.

Edited September 25, 2015 by NamKangMan

[Sviss Geez]

I believe wife #1 legally cancelled the lease on the family home, (using the right to unilaterally cancel any contract made within marriage) then sold it.

Apparently this was the ruling of the judge in the case.

The fraud charge was about forging a signature to change directorship in the company, a company solely created to illegally buy Thai land.

Not much sympathy here either, foreigners are only allowed to own 49% of a Thai company, preferred shares, and shares held by nominees seem illegal to me.

You believe very wrong, try reading the full report properly. The company that owned the property was a legitimate company used for the man's consultancy business.

There is no way these people would be making so much fuss about their lost properties if anything they did was illegal and if anything illegal had been done you can rest assured the Thai authorities would have made sure the whole world knew about it, dont you think?

[Sviss Geez]

So what you are basically saying is fraud is OK if against a foreigner?

No, what I'm saying is,

If two drug gangs fight it out over a drug shipment, nobody really cares who gets hurt, or who ends up holding the shipment.

You really seem to be nuts, what's this ridiculous analogy supposed to prove?

[Sviss Geez]

These guys have kids so i dont understand why the land wasnt put into their names.

Because then they appear not to " trust" the wife. It's a pack of cards if things go wrong.

His mistake was " eggs in one basket"..

Nothing to do with it, the properties were in his company's name, he didn't need to use his wife or children.

What I was implying that he shouldn't have used the company route.

Why shouldn't he have, are you trying to (wrongly) say that what he was doing was illegal? What other baskets did he have the choice of using?

Edited September 25, 2015 by Sviss Geez

[ourmanflint]

Strange why foreigners even think of investing in Thailand, when clearly there is enough information out there.

1) Foreigners do not have any rights in Thailand.

2) In most cases foreigners are not even acknowledged by Thais or by the Thai system.

3) To Thais, foreigners are only ATM's on legs, nothing more.

4) Foreigners will never be accepted by Thais as equals.

5) There is no legal justice for foreigners.

6) Thailand is only for Thais.

Keep your money out of Thailand, only rent, then you will be fine.

If you don't understand the above, best not to even come.

This should really be imprinted on every new arrivals eyeballs. Top post!

[ozyjon]

Does he have a small really small fortune now.

[huawei]

These guys have kids so i dont understand why the land wasnt put into their names.

Because then they appear not to " trust" the wife. It's a pack of cards if things go wrong.

His mistake was " eggs in one basket"..

Nothing to do with it, the properties were in his company's name, he didn't need to use his wife or children.

What I was implying that he shouldn't have used the company route.

I agree.

He should have used "the rent route."

His 1.2 million quid would still be in the UK, and he would still be happily married with his "pay as you go" wife and still having a great time.

But when you have a family you want to provide a home. If you are not use to renting, then it's natural to buy.

A large condo my have been more appropriate .

I feel that for this guy. In Phuket..all agencies against him..Phuket was lawless in the 80's before the tourist boom....Thailand can be beguiling..

[huawei]

These guys have kids so i dont understand why the land wasnt put into their names.

Because then they appear not to " trust" the wife. It's a pack of cards if things go wrong.

His mistake was " eggs in one basket"..

Nothing to do with it, the properties were in his company's name, he didn't need to use his wife or children.

What I was implying that he shouldn't have used the company route.

Why shouldn't he have, are you trying to (wrongly) say that what he was doing was illegal? What other baskets did he have the choice of using?

In this case as you imply he had an ongoing business..

But in the kids name any movement ( sales, loan registrations ) would need to be ratified by the family court as being in their interest, my experience with them is that they are very protective..

But I take your overall point..he had it all to deal with, how would anyone in his position know..

[farangmick]

These two successful forgot, or never knew, the golden rule of living in Thailand. Never put into the country more than you can afford to walk away from, albeit a bit poorer, but a lot wiser. (Yes I know that for 99% of TV posters I am teaching grandmother to suck eggs.)