toooa Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The problem with Thailand is that it has a government. The private sector works extremely well, despite the government and bureaucracy. Look around Bangkok and everything that works well id private sector and to an excellent standard. Then look at everything the government runs - the education system, police, road conditions etc ...... where the government is involved the standards are just piss poor. End of the day there is huge divide between what the private sector delivers and the government with huge resources........... we all know why. Well said...Government (in general) by its very nature is a form of parasitism. It's a win-lose scenario, whereas the free market is a win-win exchange. Government survives by promising goodies, but not giving you the bill directly. There is no such thing as a free lunch, everything that government gives was taken at gun-point from someone else. The sooner people realise this, the better off society will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 One argumentative troll post has been removed from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishJohn Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 "Thammasat" and "Nitirat Lawyers" in the same article. No point to read any further. I have followed their antics for the last 10 years and the only 'democracy' they are interested in is 'red-shirt style'. And we all saw what that means. They have NEVER had anything to say which I consider represents real democracy. Why is it always these cronies who make the headlines ?. Do none of the other institutions have any pro-democracy movements, or is the Thai media so well and truly bought now that they push these people over anyone who does not support the 'winner takes all' philosophy?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I agree with the sentiment of this article, the country seems to be transitioning away from democracy. I can't see many Thais really bothered by this. It makes me question my own belief that democracy and capitalism are entwined, clearly countries such as China show that this doesn't need to be the case. I think at this point, Thais will just acccept anything that gives them growth, opportunity and prosperity. I think only a certain select few will as you say benefit from growth opportunity and especially the prosperity part. The status quo remains for the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Democracy is a concept...an ideal...an imaginary power were there is no corruption and the people's voice is heard about the roar of politicians... It does not actually exist...even in the US...but democracy is arguable the best form of government for individual freedoms...constantly under attack by the elite... In the USA with a 2 party system the least....Best example would be Switzerland. Democracy is a tool to select the best leader and have the country heading in the way most people want with strong checks and balances so the elected leaders can't abuse their power and change the system to a non democratic way. With Samak, Somchai, Yingluck: the most able leader? Checks and balances?, vote buying? filling their pockets instead of doing something for the people, democracy failed long before the coup already. Democracy in Thailand failed in 1933 and never became an integral part of Thai culture since then. For that you can thank 20 military coups! One could argue that as Thai culture isn't suited to western ideas of democracy and that coups have been been necessary to prevent the politicians from using democracy as a cover to rape the country for all they can. Why Thailand wants to follow failed, so called democratic, systems like the US and UK is beyond me. Edited October 22, 2015 by elviajero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phycokiller Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 democracy can never work when those that have or gain power are above the law, and nobody with the power to make that change in Thailand wants that to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phycokiller Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) if you look at European (or anywhere, Japan etc) history, or just use logical thought, you can see that absolute monarchies and democracy have never and will never work together (not a comment on Thailand or Thainess, of course) Edited October 22, 2015 by phycokiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 A post containing Nazi comparison hyperbole has been removed as well as the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Personally, and in my own (perhaps warped) opinion, I can't see a real change in Thailand until the Thai finally get fed up with everything and have their own version of "Bastille Day". Swarm the military compounds and "arrest" every military, and police, officer above the rank of Lieutenant, confiscate all of their totally illegal wealth, and sentence them to the choice of life imprisonment at hard labor, or death. A guillotine in a very public place sounds good. Yeah, it's a total fantasy, but to me, that's what it is going to take. Are you really suggesting a French revolution? Thailand will not become a Republic in the foreseeable future. That door was closed in the early 1930s and is not ready to reopen yet. The Thai military are too strong, too entrenched, too connected to be removed by force. It would take something more like the Arab Spring to change things - and even that didn't work out too well for Egypt and Libya did it? A non-violent citizens revolt is the only way I can see of Thailand moving forward, but as yet most people don't seem to see it in their own interests to make waves and the army is still given credibility by association. If they succeed in alienating the people and the people show their disapproval en mass then who knows. I didn't say anything about them becoming a Republic, although something like that may not be totally out of the question. Especially with the pending death of one very important person. I'm saying that the Thai people have got to take matters into their own hands, by whatever means necessary, and an important part of that is the total dismantling of the military regime by whatever means necessary. Until the military is put in their place, by force if that's what it takes, Thailand has no chance of developing into what it could be. Whether it's a French Revolution or Arab Spring type of event, something has to give, and it's not going to be peaceful or bloodless. The whole ball game and its rules are going to change dramatically soon. The military want to be in power when that happens, to ensure that their hegemony is continued. Wouldn't it be ironic if their presence in power is instead the catalyst for a process which removes them from power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KVJ Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The problem with Thailand is that it has a government. The private sector works extremely well, despite the government and bureaucracy. Look around Bangkok and everything that works well id private sector and to an excellent standard. Then look at everything the government runs - the education system, police, road conditions etc ...... where the government is involved the standards are just piss poor. End of the day there is huge divide between what the private sector delivers and the government with huge resources........... we all know why. Spot on. I say the same thing to anyone who listens. Compare the banks, mobile phones, internet, supermarkets etc to the police, garbage collection and disposal, water management, immigration, electricity, roads, hospitals schools etc. The private competitive market generally performs really well at reasonable prices here. Sometimes I think this country would function better without any government at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZurf Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 "Thammasat" and "Nitirat Lawyers" in the same article. No point to read any further. I have followed their antics for the last 10 years and the only 'democracy' they are interested in is 'red-shirt style'. And we all saw what that means. They have NEVER had anything to say which I consider represents real democracy. Why is it always these cronies who make the headlines ?. Do none of the other institutions have any pro-democracy movements, or is the Thai media so well and truly bought now that they push these people over anyone who does not support the 'winner takes all' philosophy?. "....the 'winner takes all' philosophy?." Oh John, John. What exactly would you call overthrowing an elected government and granting yourself godlike powers and an amnesty? Isn't that the ultimate winner takes all "philosophy", John? Isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 "You can't know what an apple tastes like unless you try it yourself." Just ask Eve, or Snow White. Lol, and they can't unbite the apple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion58 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Q: "Could this be a transitional period to non-democracy?" A: "Could this be is a transitional period to non-democracy?" No need to write a whole article about it and use question marks, we all know what's up. At least those of us whose IQs are greater than our hat sizes. The recent single Internet gateway maneuvers should leave no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Democracy is a concept...an ideal...an imaginary power were there is no corruption and the people's voice is heard about the roar of politicians... It does not actually exist...even in the US...but democracy is arguable the best form of government for individual freedoms...constantly under attack by the elite... In the USA with a 2 party system the least....Best example would be Switzerland. Democracy is a tool to select the best leader and have the country heading in the way most people want with strong checks and balances so the elected leaders can't abuse their power and change the system to a non democratic way. With Samak, Somchai, Yingluck: the most able leader? Checks and balances?, vote buying? filling their pockets instead of doing something for the people, democracy failed long before the coup already. "With Samak, Somchai, Yingluck: the most able leader? " No, but they were democratically elected, ergo Thai society/democracy had a chance to evolve - to sink or swim. Now there is no such opportunity. Thailand is in stasis politically and one day the lid will come off. BTW, every day that goes by the junta make Samak, Somchai and Yingluck look more and more like statesmen - and that's no mean feat!! What I find utterly incomprehensible is that there are posters with (presumably) an IQ above retard level that still support this hideous regime. You have a point with this......Could have been that they get voted out, next time. But as you say sink or swim....What if it is sink and they get some long time dictator, making the elections just for show. With a coup every time there is a problem, Thailand won't evolve (that is already proofed). On the other hand Thailand didn't do so bad with all the coups in compare to the rest of SEA. So maybe it isn't as bad as it seems and with increasing wealth democracy will evolve?????? (That is all more of a question than a statement). Yes: currently the arguments for the junta is: stability, no demonstrations and shooting. They aren't as bad as the previous governments...with their increasing censorship, internet restrictions this argument get smaller every day, I think soon I won't mention it anymore.... They aren't as corrupt as the previous.....that is still valid....but not as corrupt as is very poor performance, they shouldn't be corrupt at all, or at least punish these where it get visible. What I don't understand, with this power why not just fixing some things, some things are so simple that even Prayut should be able to do it, and he could hire foreign experts. Or if he is not able he could put someone able in power and be himself just Generalissimo. But at the moment as you say he let Yingluck appear more and more like a statesman....hard to defend them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Democracy is a concept...an ideal...an imaginary power were there is no corruption and the people's voice is heard about the roar of politicians... It does not actually exist...even in the US...but democracy is arguable the best form of government for individual freedoms...constantly under attack by the elite... In the USA with a 2 party system the least....Best example would be Switzerland. Democracy is a tool to select the best leader and have the country heading in the way most people want with strong checks and balances so the elected leaders can't abuse their power and change the system to a non democratic way. With Samak, Somchai, Yingluck: the most able leader? Checks and balances?, vote buying? filling their pockets instead of doing something for the people, democracy failed long before the coup already. Democracy in Thailand failed in 1933 and never became an integral part of Thai culture since then. For that you can thank 20 military coups! One could argue that as Thai culture isn't suited to western ideas of democracy and that coups have been been necessary to prevent the politicians from using democracy as a cover to rape the country for all they can. Why Thailand wants to follow failed, so called democratic, systems like the US and UK is beyond me. When you look around: Myanmar, Lao, Cambodia, Indonesia, Philippines than Thailand and Malaysia are the 2 best...I wouldn't call that a fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunOr Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Democracy is a concept...an ideal...an imaginary power were there is no corruption and the people's voice is heard about the roar of politicians... It does not actually exist...even in the US...but democracy is arguable the best form of government for individual freedoms...constantly under attack by the elite... In the USA with a 2 party system the least....Best example would be Switzerland. Democracy is a tool to select the best leader and have the country heading in the way most people want with strong checks and balances so the elected leaders can't abuse their power and change the system to a non democratic way. With Samak, Somchai, Yingluck: the most able leader? Checks and balances?, vote buying? filling their pockets instead of doing something for the people, democracy failed long before the coup already. Democracy in Thailand failed in 1933 and never became an integral part of Thai culture since then. For that you can thank 20 military coups! However you see it, whether from failed democracies, or benevolent dictatorships, Thailand has suffered too long as a kakistocracy. <kakistocracy n. Government by the worst persons; a form of government in which the worst persons are in power>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phycokiller Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 people tend to forget, and for good reasons, that the military, junta, whatever its called, are under the control of a larger institution and are just following orders, the idea that the military run this country is basically treason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmpy Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Transition to non democracy? Dudes, that happened in a couple of hours in May last year. Wake up and smell the coffee. I don't think Thailand is ready for a western style democracy. Anyone who can keep The Shins and Red Shirts out of the way is OK in my book. Perhaps we should give him a chance to work things out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikke Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Personally, and in my own (perhaps warped) opinion, I can't see a real change in Thailand until the Thai finally get fed up with everything and have their own version of "Bastille Day". Swarm the military compounds and "arrest" every military, and police, officer above the rank of Lieutenant, confiscate all of their totally illegal wealth, and sentence them to the choice of life imprisonment at hard labor, or death. A guillotine in a very public place sounds good. Yeah, it's a total fantasy, but to me, that's what it is going to take. It might be a fantasy, but if real, a good one for the country ...... You only forget to add the old fashion lecturers and politicians, aged over 60...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Despite all the controversies, Jade said, the draft will be judged by a national referendum, which will link it to the people. This gentleman, who was on the last CDC, tries to make the bogus claim that a military-written charter will be legitimate if it passes a referendum. We saw this in 2007 - there are many ways to cram a turd down the throats of the Thai people. A referendum does nothing to "link" a military-written, undemocratic constitution to the people. Referendum or no referendum, a turd is a turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 "Thammasat" and "Nitirat Lawyers" in the same article. No point to read any further. I have followed their antics for the last 10 years and the only 'democracy' they are interested in is 'red-shirt style'. And we all saw what that means. They have NEVER had anything to say which I consider represents real democracy. Why is it always these cronies who make the headlines ?. Do none of the other institutions have any pro-democracy movements, or is the Thai media so well and truly bought now that they push these people over anyone who does not support the 'winner takes all' philosophy?. "Thammasat" and "Nitirat Lawyers" in the same article. No point to read any further. yes, lord forbid you learn something... no wonder you never come out of that foggy cloud and write informed posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Democracy is a concept...an ideal...an imaginary power were there is no corruption and the people's voice is heard about the roar of politicians... It does not actually exist...even in the US...but democracy is arguable the best form of government for individual freedoms...constantly under attack by the elite... In the USA with a 2 party system the least....Best example would be Switzerland. Democracy is a tool to select the best leader and have the country heading in the way most people want with strong checks and balances so the elected leaders can't abuse their power and change the system to a non democratic way. With Samak, Somchai, Yingluck: the most able leader? Checks and balances?, vote buying? filling their pockets instead of doing something for the people, democracy failed long before the coup already. showing off your lack of knowledge about the USA again? And about democracy? The USA btw, has 2 major parties and even americans view it as a 2 party system, but that is due to the way elections are determined and not due to any structural rule or articles in the US constitution. The US has many political parties. The fact that the US has 2 main political parties in no way reflects on the "level of democracy" in the country as you imply. And while Switzerland is held up by you as the best example, that is presumably due to their country's direct referendum feature. In the US, many states have direct referendums as well. I would hovever, agree with GGT's last point, that democracy is constantly under attack from the elite - or those who want to control government rather than have government be responsive to the people. This is the case in Thailand today and it has been the case for over half a century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 An off topic post has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasteddie Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 One could argue that as Thai culture isn't suited to western ideas of democracy and that coups have been been necessary to prevent the politicians from using democracy as a cover to rape the country for all they can. Why Thailand wants to follow failed, so called democratic, systems like the US and UK is beyond me. When you look around: Myanmar, Lao, Cambodia, Indonesia, Philippines than Thailand and Malaysia are the 2 best...I wouldn't call that a fail. "Thailand and Malaysia are the 2 best." At what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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