Visitor Visa For Return Resident

[thaiyoda]

Hi hope someone can give me help urgently.

I am a Thai Natinal married to a British man. He passed away 2 years ago. When we married in 1986 I was living with him in England for 2 years. During that time I was granted a leave to remain in the UK for indefinate period. My husband decided to move to Thailand, at that time we do not have any children so we sold up and settle in Pattaya. We been living in Pattaya and have a daughter together she is 15 years old and is a holder of British passport.

My daughter attend the local international school during the time we are living in Thailand. Her Father dying wish is for our daughter to go and study in the UK. So I enrol my daughter in school in England she is staying with my Thai friend and her husband while I am still trying to get a visa to UK.

My visa application has been refused 4 times since my daughter moved to England. I dont know the reason and they told me that I have no right to appeal.

My friend can no longer care for her and she asked me to go and sort out my daughter situation. I only need to go for a month or so to sort out the problem I have no intention to settle in the UK. Only occasional visit to see my daughter. I got prove of asset ie. a property in Pattaya plus regular income from my husband pension.

Can someone please help me and where did I go wrong. It so hard dealing with this without my husband helping me so my english friend advice me to come and post my question here. Sorry it such a long posting.

Thank for your kind advice

[vinny]

What type of visas did you apply for?

Can you write down what was written on the refusal letters?

[thaiyoda]

What type of visas did you apply for?

Can you write down what was written on the refusal letters?

I applied for a visitor non-settlement visa. Never receive any refusal letter.

[the scouser]

As Vinny wrote, it would be handy to know what the visa officer said on the refusal papers. However, if it is a visit visa you are seeking and it is for the purpose of visiting your daughter, you should get a right of a appeal, as it is considered to be a family visit.

Alternatively, any decision taken by a public servant is liable to scrutiny in the courts, even where there is no statutory right of appeal. This process is known as judicial review. However, it is expensive: I asked a solicitor friend recently how much he charges, and he said that for a judicial review, he'd want £4000.00 up front and that was just for starters.

Scouse.

[vinny]

There are two odd things.

1. When a visa is refused, the applicant should have been given a notice of refusal.

2. As Scouse stated, family visits attract the right of appeal.

I suggest that you request your notices of refusals from the British Embassy for the 4 times that you have been refused so that we have more information.

[thaiyoda]

There are two odd things.

1. When a visa is refused, the applicant should have been given a notice of refusal.

2. As Scouse stated, family visits attract the right of appeal.

I suggest that you request your notices of refusals from the British Embassy for the 4 times that you have been refused so that we have more information.

Thanks everyone for your advice.

I am posting this on behalf of a Thai lady who is a friend of my mum and dad.

She does not understand english too well can not read or write. We're only just starting to help her, and she cannot give me much infor on this. When I asked her about the notice of refusal she said that they did not give it to her or maybe she did not know about it. She not kept any paper work from her last 4 application.

I spoke to ukvisa department all they can recommend is to put in another application and if refuse again to demand for a notice of refusal and demand the appeal.

Will get the application process started next week.

I would be grateful for more advice on the process.

[vinny]

Surely the British Embassy must keep a record of why they refused someone, especially if it's recent. If she asks them nicely, I don't see why they wouldn't give her a copy of the refusal notice(s) for free. It would be better to know the reasons for the refusal(s) beforehand so that her new visit visa application will address her problems and save her spending more visa fees unnecessarily.

See also the UK Visa Application Centre's Social Visit checklist and the Thai version of the Guidance forms; in particular, the Thai equivalent of Guidance for Visitors Visa Applications.

[Ulysses]

Well I hate to say it, but, maybe her visa is being denied because her story just doesn't jive.

Two years in england married but speaks only a little english? So her daughter spoke English to her Father and only Thai to her while in Thailand? and her husband was fluent enough in thai for her not to have to speak english?

Why is the child not with her fathers family in England?

Looking from the outside, it does seem odd.

Assuming she is 100% legit, Doesn't her daughter come back for visits? I know her daughter is not yet 18, but can't she file on behalf of her mother? OR apply for a visa on behalf of her mother. As a minor can she be denied the right to be with her mother in England?

[thaiyoda]

Well I hate to say it, but, maybe her visa is being denied because her story just doesn't jive.

Two years in england married but speaks only a little english? So her daughter spoke English to her Father and only Thai to her while in Thailand? and her husband was fluent enough in thai for her not to have to speak english?

Why is the child not with her fathers family in England?

Looking from the outside, it does seem odd.

Assuming she is 100% legit, Doesn't her daughter come back for visits? I know her daughter is not yet 18, but can't she file on behalf of her mother? OR apply for a visa on behalf of her mother. As a minor can she be denied the right to be with her mother in England?

Thank for your comment 'ULYSSES'.

I am not the one to judge people ability to understand other languages apart from their own. I can tell you from experience that many falang married to Thai national and lives in Thailand for more than 2 years. Will not be able to go to the local goverment section alone and can have a deep conversation on the various rules and regulation regards their stay in Thailand.

There is a big different in language used in the day to day lives and at official places. Bearing in mind she only educated to Pratom 6.

Regard why she is not with his family in England, all I can say is people have their reasons to do what is right for themself.

[Maizefarmer]

Hi hope someone can give me help urgently.

I am a Thai Natinal married to a British man. He passed away 2 years ago. When we married in 1986 I was living with him in England for 2 years. During that time I was granted a leave to remain in the UK for indefinate period. My husband decided to move to Thailand, at that time we do not have any children so we sold up and settle in Pattaya. We been living in Pattaya and have a daughter together she is 15 years old and is a holder of British passport.

My daughter attend the local international school during the time we are living in Thailand. Her Father dying wish is for our daughter to go and study in the UK. So I enrol my daughter in school in England she is staying with my Thai friend and her husband while I am still trying to get a visa to UK.

My visa application has been refused 4 times since my daughter moved to England. I dont know the reason and they told me that I have no right to appeal.

My friend can no longer care for her and she asked me to go and sort out my daughter situation. I only need to go for a month or so to sort out the problem I have no intention to settle in the UK. Only occasional visit to see my daughter. I got prove of asset ie. a property in Pattaya plus regular income from my husband pension.

Can someone please help me and where did I go wrong. It so hard dealing with this without my husband helping me so my english friend advice me to come and post my question here. Sorry it such a long posting.

Thank for your kind advice

Hang on a second - I am deliberately not going to read what others have written (want to keep my reply to this as "nuetral" as I can)

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

You were given indefinate leave to remain in the UK - Correct / Incorrect.

My understanding of that is that once you have go it, you have got it and its validity is NOT retrospectively subject to your marrige status. Now I stand to be corrected on that - as I know this is not the case with all refugees (I know because I have close association with support groups for Hmong's who have lost the indefinate leave to remain in the UK - all be it, it is very very rare for their status to be withdrawn).

Now this is not the same as loosing that indefinate leave to remain by virture of the fact that you departed the UK and have stayed out for certain amount of time. In that case you can loose that right to remain in the UK.

But whatever the case, I think there is something you are not telling us, or perhaps even something you yourself may notbe aware of - I find it quite odd to say the least that you are not been permitted to visit your daughter in the UK - and the reasons for that are 2 paragraphs down from the 4 questions that follow, which are:

- are you the legal gaurdian of your daughter - both in Thailand and in the UK?

- do you finance your daughter's stay in the UK i.e. do you send her regular money to pay for

schooling and living expenses or is this been taken care of by your Thai friends?

- did you get a letter explaining why you had been denied a visa - and what did that letter say?

(you should be given a written explination outlining in broad terms the basis to been delcined

leave to enter the UK)

The UK Embassy staff have a reputation (rightly or wrongly) for been tough on certain applicants, and while exercising judgement can at the best of times be a difficult job when it comes to deciding who gets leave to enter the UK and who doesn't, I cant help but feel the UK staff are often erring on the side of caution for more than they should - and I do know factualy of several cases which have been judged quite wrong & unfairly (i.e. in all 3 cases the applicant could not satisfy the embassy officer that they were going to return to the UK and were denied leave to travel - this was on financial grounds - and in all 3 cases I personally know that there was absolutely no question the individuals would return).

But your case - well, I just can't help but feel you are not sharing something and that this "something" has to do with the care of your daughter and/or your financial situation in relation to that care. Please do correct me if I am wrong, because other than this I cannot think of any reason why you as the biological and legal parent of that child, having previously held the legal right ot stay in the UK, and having done nothing which resulted in that right been withdrawn (other than a long absense from the UK), are now been refused leave to visit your child who is legally in the UK. It just seems to extreme a case to have been judged in error. There is something that was taken into consideration that has resulted in your exclusion.

I am going to suggest that the matter be taken up with the Member of Parliment who covers the area where your daughter resides in the UK. They can and do often challenge UK consular decisons at a Parlimentry level and more often than not they do so successfully. If you do not wish to publicly print on the forum the area where your daughter lives, please send this to me in a Personal Message - and I will be happy to find out who the PM is for that area and send you their name and contact details.

I am particularly keen to follow this case. I have 2 children myself, both have a Thai mother and both have overseas dual nationality (one UK and one USA) and although I personally have had no problems like you have had, there are many others who have had problems, so I am interested in this subject.

Please please do keep us posted.

Tim

[the scouser]

Going by the information which the OP has given, she will have lost her indefinite leave to remain by virtue of having spent in excess of two years outside of the UK. That her daughter is a British citizen confers no special rights on the OP who must qualify for leave to enter the UK under the immigration rules: in this case as a visitor.

The relevant paragraph of the immigration rules states that the person seeking entry must satisfy the visa officer that they are a genuine visitor who either has the ability to support themselves or can be supported by a third party, and that they intend to leave the UK at the end of their visit. Now, we don't know too much of the OP's current circumstances, but it is perfectly possible that as she has a daughter living in the UK who is a British citizen, the visa officer might have reached the conclusion that she has failed to demonstrate that she would leave the UK at the end of the visit.

That, however, is pure conjecture, not knowing the exact circumstances of the application.

Notwithstanding the above, on the face of it, she should have been given the right of appeal.

Scouse.

[Maizefarmer]

Well SCOUSER - you repeat much of what I said (not a critism - an observation)- and confirm a point I was not 100% sure of but sufficently certain of to state it i.e. the loss of leave to remain in the UK through absence of more than 2 years - I was not aware that the timeframe was 2 years.

It comes back to having not been able to satisify the clearance officer that she would return to Thailand as you also quite rightly observe - and that is what concerns me, because having previously been given leave to remain it was not through any abuse or violation of the priviledge that it was withdrawn, but by way of mutual decision between herself and her husband ect ect .... all already been said.

And now, having followed through with her late husbands decision to afford her daughter the opputuntity to exericse her right to be educated in the UK (and as a UK citizen it is her right), the mother now finds herself in no posiiton to visit.

Baring in mind the circumstances leading up to this situation (i.e. the history of the family and the connection to the UK) it strikes me as an awfully harsh decision - possibly not in the child's best interest (again - as we understand the circumstances), which should always be the first consideration in any process which results in a child been seperated from a single parent or legal gaurdian.

Is there something mom is not sharing, I can't otherwise think why any clearance officer would take such a decision - even if a risk of "non-return" existed - it's not as if the mother is dependant on the state, she has a garunteed income based on a UK salaried pension.

In summary I can't think of a reason why a visiting visa would/should be denied against the merits of such an application - what stronger more credible grounds than reasons relating to the care and welfare of your child could one possibly present to apply for a visa to go anywhere? The contradiction I see here is that the UK hands visa's out to hookers on a regular basis (on the basis of support assured from some guy who would be committing an offence in the UK if he supported prostitution as much as he did in Thailand) - whose applications (non return risk aside) are surely not considered as credible as this case is.

And no offense mean't to hookers and the guys who support their visa applications, good on you all - the comparison is made with tongue in cheek to illustrate the absurdity of many of the applications that are approved versus many of those that are rejected.

I really would like to know just why this mom has been rejected so many times - something does not add up however I try to understand this case.

Whats you take SCOUSER on approaching the local MP for where her daughter lives to get support?

Something I forgot to ask mom: - what input or contribution have her daughters current careers had in her visa applications to date?

Tim

Edited October 9, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[vinny]

scouse, I wonder in this case if it's possible and appropriate for the mother to apply for leave to enter in order to exercise rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom?

See also Chapter 7 - Other categories, Section 1 - Persons exercising rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom.

From Chapter 7 - Other categories annexes, Section 1 - Persons exercising rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom, Annex A - Background note:

The leave to enter provision was also extended to apply to all parents, not just those who are divorced or legally separated. This position was consistent with Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights (Right to respect for private and family life), which states that:

"Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others."

Also:

A parent applying for leave to enter in order to exercise rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom must be able to prove that they have been given rights of access to that child.

Further on:

Because of this, such a person may also prove their rights of access by way of a written statement from their former partner, (the other parent of the child and the person who habitually cares for it), confirming that they are exercising access rights.

In the case where the father has died, the mother may have automatic access rights without any court orders or other written statements from third parties. It may also be helpful to show that the mother has maintained Sole responsibility.

As an aside, in Uk Settlement Best Way, in england or thailand, couldn't Mazo just provide a written statement confirming that his wife is exercising her access rights to be with her child?

[thaiyoda]

Hi hope someone can give me help urgently.

I am a Thai Natinal married to a British man. He passed away 2 years ago. When we married in 1986 I was living with him in England for 2 years. During that time I was granted a leave to remain in the UK for indefinate period. My husband decided to move to Thailand, at that time we do not have any children so we sold up and settle in Pattaya. We been living in Pattaya and have a daughter together she is 15 years old and is a holder of British passport.

My daughter attend the local international school during the time we are living in Thailand. Her Father dying wish is for our daughter to go and study in the UK. So I enrol my daughter in school in England she is staying with my Thai friend and her husband while I am still trying to get a visa to UK.

My visa application has been refused 4 times since my daughter moved to England. I dont know the reason and they told me that I have no right to appeal.

My friend can no longer care for her and she asked me to go and sort out my daughter situation. I only need to go for a month or so to sort out the problem I have no intention to settle in the UK. Only occasional visit to see my daughter. I got prove of asset ie. a property in Pattaya plus regular income from my husband pension.

Can someone please help me and where did I go wrong. It so hard dealing with this without my husband helping me so my english friend advice me to come and post my question here. Sorry it such a long posting.

Thank for your kind advice

Hang on a second - I am deliberately not going to read what others have written (want to keep my reply to this as "nuetral" as I can)

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

You were given indefinate leave to remain in the UK - Correct / Incorrect.

My understanding of that is that once you have go it, you have got it and its validity is NOT retrospectively subject to your marrige status. Now I stand to be corrected on that - as I know this is not the case with all refugees (I know because I have close association with support groups for Hmong's who have lost the indefinate leave to remain in the UK - all be it, it is very very rare for their status to be withdrawn).

Now this is not the same as loosing that indefinate leave to remain by virture of the fact that you departed the UK and have stayed out for certain amount of time. In that case you can loose that right to remain in the UK.

But whatever the case, I think there is something you are not telling us, or perhaps even something you yourself may notbe aware of - I find it quite odd to say the least that you are not been permitted to visit your daughter in the UK - and the reasons for that are 2 paragraphs down from the 4 questions that follow, which are:

- are you the legal gaurdian of your daughter - both in Thailand and in the UK?

- do you finance your daughter's stay in the UK i.e. do you send her regular money to pay for

schooling and living expenses or is this been taken care of by your Thai friends?

- did you get a letter explaining why you had been denied a visa - and what did that letter say?

(you should be given a written explination outlining in broad terms the basis to been delcined

leave to enter the UK)

The UK Embassy staff have a reputation (rightly or wrongly) for been tough on certain applicants, and while exercising judgement can at the best of times be a difficult job when it comes to deciding who gets leave to enter the UK and who doesn't, I cant help but feel the UK staff are often erring on the side of caution for more than they should - and I do know factualy of several cases which have been judged quite wrong & unfairly (i.e. in all 3 cases the applicant could not satisfy the embassy officer that they were going to return to the UK and were denied leave to travel - this was on financial grounds - and in all 3 cases I personally know that there was absolutely no question the individuals would return).

But your case - well, I just can't help but feel you are not sharing something and that this "something" has to do with the care of your daughter and/or your financial situation in relation to that care. Please do correct me if I am wrong, because other than this I cannot think of any reason why you as the biological and legal parent of that child, having previously held the legal right ot stay in the UK, and having done nothing which resulted in that right been withdrawn (other than a long absense from the UK), are now been refused leave to visit your child who is legally in the UK. It just seems to extreme a case to have been judged in error. There is something that was taken into consideration that has resulted in your exclusion.

I am going to suggest that the matter be taken up with the Member of Parliment who covers the area where your daughter resides in the UK. They can and do often challenge UK consular decisons at a Parlimentry level and more often than not they do so successfully. If you do not wish to publicly print on the forum the area where your daughter lives, please send this to me in a Personal Message - and I will be happy to find out who the PM is for that area and send you their name and contact details.

I am particularly keen to follow this case. I have 2 children myself, both have a Thai mother and both have overseas dual nationality (one UK and one USA) and although I personally have had no problems like you have had, there are many others who have had problems, so I am interested in this subject.

Please please do keep us posted.

Tim

Thank for your comment

To answer a few of your questions.

Yes the mother is a legal guardian of her daughter.

She pays for her daughter to stay with her friends in UK regularly for rent and her schooling etc.

She was never given a chance to appeal or any letters state the reasons why she was refused the visa.

Please bear in mind the applicants is an old Thai lady does not know the in and out of visa process. Her husband took care of that side of thing when he was alive. I mentioned the notice of refusal to her and she didnot know anything about it. She didn' even know that she has a right to remain until I saw her old passport. She has not kept any old paperwork from previous application so I can't even speculate where she went wrong. All I can think is that

1. maybe the application form was not fill in correctly.

2. She did not supply all the supporting documents.

3. She failed the interview.

I am trying my best to get all the informations out of her and not in my intend to leave anything out when I made a posting. I am helping her as a favor to a friend. She had in the past pay the visa company a fortune to try and get the visa these people just took advantage of her.

Financially she is very comfortable, her husband left her a good pension and a large property in Pattaya.

I am in talk with UK visa at the moment to see if they can offer any help. All they say is to make another application and if refuse this time to make an appeal and if this is not succesful. She will have to send the appeal to be deal with in England.

I have also mentioned to her to get her daughter to get help from local MP, she is going to her local citizen advice bureu next week to see if they can help.

If you can get me the name of the local MP this will be much appriciated.

Her daughter lives in Chesterfield

Will keep posting on the progress.

[GU22]

She was never given a chance to appeal or any letters state the reasons why she was refused the visa.

Sorry, but she would have been given a written notice of the reason for the refusal each time. These notices would also have given her details of her right to appeal, if this was a family visit application. She must have lost these, or maybe the agency you speak of kept them. More money for them if she keeps re-applying rather than appealing.

A lot depends, I think, on the daughter's nationality. You say she was born in Thailand, so is she:-

Thai?

British?

Both?

If the daughter only has Thai nationality, then I assume she is in the UK on some sort of student visa. In which case the mother's visa would not, IMO, be classed as a family visit. Also, if the daughter doesn't have British nationality then I don't see how any MP could, or would want to, help her.

As asked before, where are the father's family? Why don't they feature in any of this?

[Maizefarmer]

GU22 - that the daughter in question is a UK citizen, that is clear from an earlier posting. And that reasons for denial have to be supplied, is also something that has been raised. ........... me to, I also skip through and miss details like that on threads occassionaly.

THAIYODA - from what you have added - well, it just adds to the mystery - I understand it even less now (the person who you describe as the mother would not appear to fit the "risk of no return" profile).

Anyway - I'll dig up the Chesterfiled MP's contact details for you and PM to you - as its got names and numbers and addresses on it and if I post it on the forum the Moderator will probebrly deleate it. I'll do that today for you - in a couple hours time.

Tim

[GU22]

GU22 - that the daughter in question is a UK citizen, that is clear from an earlier posting.

Yep, it's in the OP. Sorry, missed that bit.

[the scouser]

scouse, I wonder in this case if it's possible and appropriate for the mother to apply for leave to enter in order to exercise rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom?

See also Chapter 7 - Other categories, Section 1 - Persons exercising rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom.

From Chapter 7 - Other categories annexes, Section 1 - Persons exercising rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom, Annex A - Background note:

The leave to enter provision was also extended to apply to all parents, not just those who are divorced or legally separated. This position was consistent with Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights (Right to respect for private and family life), which states that:

"Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others."

Also:

A parent applying for leave to enter in order to exercise rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom must be able to prove that they have been given rights of access to that child.

Further on:

Because of this, such a person may also prove their rights of access by way of a written statement from their former partner, (the other parent of the child and the person who habitually cares for it), confirming that they are exercising access rights.

In the case where the father has died, the mother may have automatic access rights without any court orders or other written statements from third parties. It may also be helpful to show that the mother has maintained Sole responsibility.

As an aside, in Uk Settlement Best Way, in england or thailand, couldn't Mazo just provide a written statement confirming that his wife is exercising her access rights to be with her child?

Vinny,

Such applications aren't common and I'd have to do some detailed research in order to come up with a definitive answer, but my instinct tells me that this particular paragraph of the rules would not be relevant in the OP's situation.

My interpretation is that para 246 is relevant where there is an enforced separation of the foreign parent and the child, and the child is unable to travel to the estranged parent's country. In the OP's situation, the daughter has voluntarily gone to study in the UK and is also a dual national, so would face no problem returning to Thailand for the purposes of visiting her mother.

I think in this instance a visit visa is the way to go.

Scouse.

[thaiyoda]

scouse, I wonder in this case if it's possible and appropriate for the mother to apply for leave to enter in order to exercise rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom?

See also Chapter 7 - Other categories, Section 1 - Persons exercising rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom.

From Chapter 7 - Other categories annexes, Section 1 - Persons exercising rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom, Annex A - Background note:

The leave to enter provision was also extended to apply to all parents, not just those who are divorced or legally separated. This position was consistent with Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights (Right to respect for private and family life), which states that:

"Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others."

Also:

A parent applying for leave to enter in order to exercise rights of access to a child resident in the United Kingdom must be able to prove that they have been given rights of access to that child.

Further on:

Because of this, such a person may also prove their rights of access by way of a written statement from their former partner, (the other parent of the child and the person who habitually cares for it), confirming that they are exercising access rights.

In the case where the father has died, the mother may have automatic access rights without any court orders or other written statements from third parties. It may also be helpful to show that the mother has maintained Sole responsibility.

As an aside, in Uk Settlement Best Way, in england or thailand, couldn't Mazo just provide a written statement confirming that his wife is exercising her access rights to be with her child?

Vinny,

Such applications aren't common and I'd have to do some detailed research in order to come up with a definitive answer, but my instinct tells me that this particular paragraph of the rules would not be relevant in the OP's situation.

My interpretation is that para 246 is relevant where there is an enforced separation of the foreign parent and the child, and the child is unable to travel to the estranged parent's country. In the OP's situation, the daughter has voluntarily gone to study in the UK and is also a dual national, so would face no problem returning to Thailand for the purposes of visiting her mother.

I think in this instance a visit visa is the way to go.

Scouse.

Cheers Scouse and Vinny for trying to look in more detail of this scenario.

Just got a reply confirmation by 'ukvisa' to say that she cannot apply to go back as a return resident. The reason given was that tha amount of time she has been away from England was more than the time she spent there. She has been away quite a lot from the uk and she cannot prove any other family ties to the UK apart from her daughter. The only way for her is to apply for a family visitor visa.

I am going to see her at the weekend to get her application forms done and try to get all the other support documents together.

[the scouser]

...and don't forget that a family visit visa attracts a right of appeal if refused.

If you want any guidance with the details of which supporting documents should be submitted, then by all means come back here.

Scouse.

[Maizefarmer]

An odd case if ever their was one!

Tim

[vinny]

Thanks, scouse. I do agree that the right to access would be a long shot because the child can return to Thailand. But it was an interesting option to explore. From the information given, a family visitor visa is probably the most appropriate one.

Just got a reply confirmation by 'ukvisa' to say that she cannot apply to go back as a return resident. The reason given was that tha amount of time she has been away from England was more than the time she spent there. She has been away quite a lot from the uk and she cannot prove any other family ties to the UK apart from her daughter. The only way for her is to apply for a family visitor visa.

I am going to see her at the weekend to get her application forms done and try to get all the other support documents together.

It makes me wonder if they thought that the previous applications were for the returning residents category because visitors and returning residents use the same Application form VAF1 - non-settlement. They could also have considered her previous applications as ordinary visitors applications and not as family visitors applications; the former do not attract the right of appeal.

She doesn't want to try requesting copies of her previous refusal notices from the Embassy before making a fresh application? At the very least, they should have some idea of why she had been refused, especially for 4 times. It may save her from making the same mistakes again.

[GU22]

She had in the past pay the visa company a fortune to try and get the visa these people just took advantage of her.

The more I think about this, the more I wonder how much of an advantage this visa company have taken advantage of her.

From what you have said about her circumstances I simply cannot understand why her application would be refused once, let alone four times. Even if it were, then each time she would have been given a refusal notice and a notice about her right of appeal.

I may be wrong, but I am wondering if she has been the victim of a con by the visa company. I wonder if the applications ever reached the embassy.

Three questions to settle this point.

Who told her that she had been refused; the embassy or the visa company?

Each time someone applies for a UK visa a small stamp is placed on the last page of the applicant's passport. It says "UK BANGKOK" and has the date of the application written in. If refused, then a line is drawn through it. Your friend's passport should have four such stamps. Does it?

Was she ever interviewed by the visa section at the embassy?

Maybe I'm just being paranoid about the visa company. The answers to the above will show if I am or not.