7 Year Overstay Cleared

[2fishin2]

You said on several occasions that you didn't believe the bans would come in to effect (or words to that effect). You were wrong.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Incorrect, Depends on the type of clock

[2fishin2]

So according to you overstay in Singapore is to be avoided but overstay in Thailand is acceptable ?

Why ?

I'd smoke cannabis in the US, but not in Indonesia. What's your point?

The thread is about a 7 year overstay cleared. What's your point?

[johnatong]

So according to you overstay in Singapore is to be avoided but overstay in Thailand is acceptable ?

Why ?

I'd smoke cannabis in the US, but not in Indonesia. What's your point?

Again

WHY ?

Are you one that searches out the best places in the world to commit crime ?

According to what you say the threat/fear of punishment is a deterrent.

[bkkcanuck8]

Some of the members here with the "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" mentality, it's just visa overstay for Pete's sake, no victims, nobody hurt.... You guys fantasise about being traffic wardens or something?

Would you overstay in Singapore ?

Maybe you would not because the punishment is often draconian !

No, I wouldn't, but neither would I expect a complete lack of compassion from fellow expatriates.

So according to you overstay in Singapore is to be avoided but overstay in Thailand is acceptable ?

Why ?

Almost all people choose which laws to obey or which ones to ignore depending on a risk/reward basis in our own mind. If the authorities don't take the offense serious and we don't perceive it hurting others and what laws are "important" -- then it becomes an option to ignore. There has been a change in that balance and people had to re-evaluate based on the changes.

What am I talking about with regards to laws?

- Stealing or Receiving stolen goods (aka piracy) [buying DVDs in Pantip plaza, torrenting] - some people choose to do this because the punishment is usually non-existent in most countries -- and the risk of being punished low.

- Lying with regards to customs when returning from a trip - either misstating the value, pretending it was not bought overseas (which is dutiable if you did not reside outside for a 6 month period or whatever it is in the country you are returning to) [most Canadians are guilty of this at one time or other]

- Speeding - driving over the speed limit a certain amount because of lax enforcement etc.

- Jaywalking

The range of offenses is long and I doubt that anyone can say they have obeyed all laws. Overstaying is an administrative offense and was not taken seriously at all for the longest time and people adjusted to it. Things change and peoples behaviour changed because of it.

[D3030]

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

It really is that simple.

Some of us choose to respect the law.

Some choose not to.

Prior to 20 March 2016...

It was "if you can't pay the fine - when caught" - then you might do some time..

Now, it's the same.. With the addition: "majority of the time will be spent out of Thailand..

[D3030]

I cant fathom how people can sleep even with only a few days overstay (or even a day) let alone years. Find it just bizarre.

I did

[brainfart]

Some of you are missing the point. The people who need our sympathy and understanding are those who have an emergent situation in their lives that consumes most of their money; possibly affecting them mentally and puts them in a situation where they have no money and do not have the mental awareness to handle their affairs. Your life can turn in a moment even though you thought everything was perfect. Trust me on this- a visa and an extension does not enter into your mind while you are trying to save your loved ones life. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? This is not the same as a person who flouts the law because he doesn't want to do a visa run or wants to save the money to get over on the system. The judge is the IO when one explains the situation- I have a feeling that most IO's are receptive to the truth. In fact, I would rather put my fate in their hands then some of the posters on this board who appear to have no sympathy for those who have had a life's event beyond their control.

You are talking about a tiny minority of overstayers and I'm sure most TV members are sympathetic to those genuinely in dire straits. But note that the OP admits to having 1/2 opportunities to clear his overstay but chose not to. His 3rd paragraph basically confirms that he only cleared the overstay because of the bans.

Your summation is only partially correct. A revision of my OP would clarify the fact that I had a genuine reason to leave the country which coincided with the bans. Perhaps having an 85 year old dying father in Australia isn't a genuine enough reason to want to leave, and yet the bans were?

The original conditions under which I was forced to overstay would probably be too horrific and unimaginable for you to entertain,.. and with respect, are none of anyone's business but my own. I am grateful at least for having been able to pull through them with my sanity, health, marriage and family still in tact! For the record,.. living under the threat of arrest, detention and deportation was no day at the beach, and is something that I am very relieved to have put behind me.

I can assure you, that under the circumstances, the bans were the least of my worries, although I acknowledge they were certainly a concerning factor, despite the fact that I am of the personal opinion that once put under the full scrutiny of Human Rights Law, it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible for any Human Rights treaty country to enforce bans of 1-10 years on men that have Thai wives, Thai children, Thai families, and homes in Thailand, and who have not committed any crime (i.e. caused no harm, injury, loss or suffering to any man/woman), and who's only offence is a breach of an immigration code.

I personally didn't feel like going on a crusade to prove such a point,.. and I'm not sure that it will come to that before the threats of these "lifetime" bans will be either removed or replaced by something that is far more relevant. Perhaps a fine system whereby the 20,000 fine renews and aggregates on a yearly basis? Who knows,.. but, my prediction is that the current ban proposals will not prevail very long into the future.

Please be clear that I'm not condoning overstaying, nor excusing my own overstay under special privileges. I am simply saying that the current system (including the new ban proposals) is in need of a more relevant and sensible approach for it to be considered tenable.

[brainfart]

There is no option....you dont get a say so....you will be deported and banned. And for the record this was at least the OPs 3rd admitted overstay. Same excuses, different day and OP

For the record,... it was NOT my "at least 3rd" admitted overstay!

This was my one, only, and last overstay. Where you read your "facts" into my OP is beyond me. Preferential reading can only be assumed!

size=3]For the record, whilst I would confess to there being at least one or two prior occasions when I was able to clear the overstay and leave, those both came well after several years had elapsed and so I was just waiting for the most suitable opportune moment, which happened to coincide with the rumblings of the current 1 – 10 year ban legislation that has been applied.

Right here buddy!

You are nothing more than just another person who thinks immigration rules dont apply to you....I count THREE overstays of your own admission.

Excuses, excuses....and using the "poor me" card by writing your family into the post. You KNOWINGLY and WILLING overstayed. No sympathy from me

So you can't read and you can't count,... that seems to be a common trait amongst expats in Thailand so I have noticed.

... and I was so much counting on your sympathy,... of all people,.. if you had shown some sympathy it would have meant so much to me... NOT!!!

[2fishin2]

There is no option....you dont get a say so....you will be deported and banned. And for the record this was at least the OPs 3rd admitted overstay. Same excuses, different day and OP

For the record,... it was NOT my "at least 3rd" admitted overstay!

This was my one, only, and last overstay. Where you read your "facts" into my OP is beyond me. Preferential reading can only be assumed!

size=3]For the record, whilst I would confess to there being at least one or two prior occasions when I was able to clear the overstay and leave, those both came well after several years had elapsed and so I was just waiting for the most suitable opportune moment, which happened to coincide with the rumblings of the current 1 – 10 year ban legislation that has been applied.

Right here buddy!

You are nothing more than just another person who thinks immigration rules dont apply to you....I count THREE overstays of your own admission.

Excuses, excuses....and using the "poor me" card by writing your family into the post. You KNOWINGLY and WILLING overstayed. No sympathy from me

So you can't read and you can't count,... that seems to be a common trait amongst expats in Thailand so I have noticed.

... and I was so much counting on your sympathy,... of all people,.. if you had shown some sympathy it would have meant so much to me... NOT!!!

Dude, YOUR OWN WORDS you say "whilst I would confess to there being at least one or two prior occasions when I was able to clear the overstay and leave, those both came well after several years had elapsed and so I was just waiting for the most suitable opportune moment, which happened to coincide with the rumblings of the current 1 – 10 year ban legislation that has been applied.

This is YOUR POST, NOT MINE. you admit to not one but "both" which means TWO.

[Eclipse]

There is no option....you dont get a say so....you will be deported and banned. And for the record this was at least the OPs 3rd admitted overstay. Same excuses, different day and OP

For the record,... it was NOT my "at least 3rd" admitted overstay!

This was my one, only, and last overstay. Where you read your "facts" into my OP is beyond me. Preferential reading can only be assumed!

size=3]For the record, whilst I would confess to there being at least one or two prior occasions when I was able to clear the overstay and leave, those both came well after several years had elapsed and so I was just waiting for the most suitable opportune moment, which happened to coincide with the rumblings of the current 1 – 10 year ban legislation that has been applied.

Right here buddy!

You are nothing more than just another person who thinks immigration rules dont apply to you....I count THREE overstays of your own admission.

Excuses, excuses....and using the "poor me" card by writing your family into the post. You KNOWINGLY and WILLING overstayed. No sympathy from me

So you can't read and you can't count,... that seems to be a common trait amongst expats in Thailand so I have noticed.

... and I was so much counting on your sympathy,... of all people,.. if you had shown some sympathy it would have meant so much to me... NOT!!!

Sympathy for what? Breaking the law?

I don't think so.

[brainfart]

Proud of being a lucky smart ass are you OP. Lazy is the most polite I can call you

And "Ignorant" is the most polite thing I can call you!

[johnatong]

Mr Brainf**t

Would you have taken the same course of action had you been in Singapore ?

Look up the "costs" of overstay in Singapore before you reply .

What you did you did in the belief that you could and at little personal cost.

[Eclipse]

All he can do is spend more time as an illegal Immigrant.

While the rest of us (not including you) stay here legally.

Plenty of guys breaking laws with valid visas.

You I suspect.

[Rimbuman]

If you are arrested, or imprisoned, or deported and banned you cannot take care of anybody,

Staying legal is number one in my book.

Even if it means going without for a while so you have enough money for visas, extensions, border runs.

I am of no use to my Wife in prison or getting kicked out of the country.

I don't overstay but does anyone know or heard about a farang with a Thai family being imprisoned and/or deported because of overstay???

I am just curious about this.

[2fishin2]

OP I went back and reread your posts and have to admit I failed to understand those "both" were opportunities and NOT different overstays. I apologize and stand corrected for both of my posts referring to you as having committed multiple overstays. You in fact, have only completed one 7-year overstay.

[jspill]

Plenty of guys breaking laws with valid visas.

You I suspect.

Yes, I used a VPN to read the Daily Mail today, and went to Lotus without underwear on.

Studies have shown the average person 'breaks the law' every day.

[johnatong]

If you are arrested, or imprisoned, or deported and banned you cannot take care of anybody,

Staying legal is number one in my book.

Even if it means going without for a while so you have enough money for visas, extensions, border runs.

I am of no use to my Wife in prison or getting kicked out of the country.

I don't overstay but does anyone know or heard about a farang with a Thai family being imprisoned and/or deported because of overstay???

I am just curious about this.

I personally know of one.

He got himself involved in a drunken fracas, was arrested and found to be overstayed.

He was fined and kept in the IDC for almost three months before money was found to pay the fine(s) and buy an airline ticket.

He was deported.

Having a family is no excuse for bad behaviour or overstay.

[brainfart]

Congrats on your clearing you third (or more overstay). Glad it worked out. When did you say your next overstay will happen?

According to my maths, this is the 2nd time you've misquoted the facts about my overstay!

For the avoidance of any doubt,.. and to be crystal clear,... I have overstayed ONCE only for a period of 7 years,.. and that overstay has been reported for the very first time in the original post that I made yesterday.

For the record,.. and with all due respect to your right to an opinion,.. I couldn't care less whether you agree, disagree, condone, condemn, like or dislike, the fact that I overstayed.

The entire point of my going to the effort of making the original post was to report the details of the experience so that others might benefit from it in some way or other. Please note that at no stage did I ever gloat or take pride in having breached the immigration code, and in fact, I believe I showed sincere gratitude and humility under the circumstances.

Honestly,... if you don't have anything nice to say... why say anything at all?

Is your life so boring, or perhaps so perfect that you don't have anything better to do than to make condescending, irrelevant and disrespectful remarks when someone is genuinely making an effort to make a contribution and to make restitution?

Have a nice day!,... I mean really,... just try it... have a nice day... it's not that hard to do!

[brainfart]

OP I went back and reread your posts and have to admit I failed to understand those "both" were opportunities and NOT different overstays. I apologize and stand corrected for both of my posts referring to you as having committed multiple overstays. You in fact, have only completed one 7-year overstay.

Thank you sir!

No harm.. no foul.

Honor is restored and you have my respect in making this apology.... much appreciated ;-)

[elviajero]

If you are arrested, or imprisoned, or deported and banned you cannot take care of anybody,

Staying legal is number one in my book.

Even if it means going without for a while so you have enough money for visas, extensions, border runs.

I am of no use to my Wife in prison or getting kicked out of the country.

I don't overstay but does anyone know or heard about a farang with a Thai family being imprisoned and/or deported because of overstay???

I am just curious about this.

Imprisoned no. Detained and deported yes.

[brainfart]

Mr Brainf**t

Would you have taken the same course of action had you been in Singapore ?

Look up the "costs" of overstay in Singapore before you reply .

What you did you did in the belief that you could and at little personal cost.

I wouldn't take up Christian evangelising on the streets of Pakistan, Iraq, Syria or Saudi Arabia either!

Neither would I attempt to jump out of an airplane without a parachute or go scuba diving without an aqualung.

The topic relates to an overstay in the country of Thailand,... the attendant laws of Singapore have absolutely no bearing on my post or on the topic. FWIW,.. I wouldn't be found dead living in Singapore,.. or even holidaying there. They've got a lovely airport and that's about where it starts and finishes with me as far as SIN is concerned!

Your opinion as to my "beliefs" and my circumstances regarding my overstay are thankfully only your "opinions"... which as I made very clear in my original post,.. you are very welcome to them!

[tropo]

Happy it went as smooth as this for you, good to read.

I guess you have learnt your lesson, now a second chance has been given to you.

Good luck in the future.

He wasn't given a lesson. I would say it was more like he was rewarded for overstaying... He cleared his overstay for a paltry 20K. That's only 2,857 baht per year. No visa applications, no extensions, no border runs, no visa runs and no time wasted at the Immigration office.

You are missing the 7 years in fear of being arrested and sent to the nightmare-like IDC.

How come you guys always count this moneywise? I assure you its not worth the saving of money if you get caught. The hiding, laying low and not be able to breath and travel freely, is a clear downside of overstaying.

He has been given a second chance, at least that was what I felt after my own overstay and stay at the IDC.

It's a bit drastic to think a person would be living in fear. It wouldn't cost much more if caught and I'm sure overstayers know that and prepare for the possibility.

[D3030]

I cant fathom how people can sleep even with only a few days overstay (or even a day) let alone years. Find it just bizarre.

Yep it really is beyond comprehension.

They seem proud of it somehow.

Really? Like a few women I know back in the States, that can't believe I live in Thailand.

Imagine if they knew I "was" on multiple year overstay..

All that other crap of only losers go to Thailand... To being asked, do men only want young women to make them happy, so Thailand is the place for perverts..

The overstay would just make them pee in their panties..

So, thanks for bringing that annoying women's opinion to the table..

[brainfart]

If you are arrested, or imprisoned, or deported and banned you cannot take care of anybody,

Staying legal is number one in my book.

Even if it means going without for a while so you have enough money for visas, extensions, border runs.

I am of no use to my Wife in prison or getting kicked out of the country.

I don't overstay but does anyone know or heard about a farang with a Thai family being imprisoned and/or deported because of overstay???

I am just curious about this.

No, I haven't either. It will be interesting to see whether the 1-10 year bans will be able to be enforced against "farang familymen" as you have indicated. Perhaps they may be initially, but if challenged in the Human Rights court, they might have to reconsider.

There's just too much to have to read into an accurate interpretation of how the new laws are to be administered, but I am of the opinion that the main emphasis is to protect the country against "bad guys" (such as those with criminal intent), and not to punish the families of farang overstayers,.. which is precisely the effect that such broad enforcement of the new ban laws would create.

[2fishin2]

OP I went back and reread your posts and have to admit I failed to understand those "both" were opportunities and NOT different overstays. I apologize and stand corrected for both of my posts referring to you as having committed multiple overstays. You in fact, have only completed one 7-year overstay.

Thank you sir!

No harm.. no foul.

Honor is restored and you have my respect in making this apology.... much appreciated ;-)

One thing I hate about many TV people is that they wont admit if they are wrong. Im not like that and wanted to point out the fact that I was and wanted to apologize to you in public. I dont condone what you did but, I was incorrect in my quoting and saying you did something when in fact, you did not.

You now have a clean slate, dont muck it up again [emoji12]

[thaibreaker]

Happy it went as smooth as this for you, good to read.

I guess you have learnt your lesson, now a second chance has been given to you.

Good luck in the future.

He wasn't given a lesson. I would say it was more like he was rewarded for overstaying... He cleared his overstay for a paltry 20K. That's only 2,857 baht per year. No visa applications, no extensions, no border runs, no visa runs and no time wasted at the Immigration office.

You are missing the 7 years in fear of being arrested and sent to the nightmare-like IDC.

How come you guys always count this moneywise? I assure you its not worth the saving of money if you get caught. The hiding, laying low and not be able to breath and travel freely, is a clear downside of overstaying.

He has been given a second chance, at least that was what I felt after my own overstay and stay at the IDC.

It's a bit drastic to think a person would be living in fear. It wouldn't cost much more if caught and I'm sure overstayers know that and prepare for the possibility.

Again with the costs..

It is certainly money saved, but my point was its definitely not worth it. I`ve been to IDC for only 2 weeks. It is a nightmare indeed. Never would I even consider the costs as an advantage compared to that.

[johnatong]

If you are arrested, or imprisoned, or deported and banned you cannot take care of anybody,

Staying legal is number one in my book.

Even if it means going without for a while so you have enough money for visas, extensions, border runs.

I am of no use to my Wife in prison or getting kicked out of the country.

I don't overstay but does anyone know or heard about a farang with a Thai family being imprisoned and/or deported because of overstay???

I am just curious about this.

No, I haven't either. It will be interesting to see whether the 1-10 year bans will be able to be enforced against "farang familymen" as you have indicated. Perhaps they may be initially, but if challenged in the Human Rights court, they might have to reconsider.

There's just too much to have to read into an accurate interpretation of how the new laws are to be administered, but I am of the opinion that the main emphasis is to protect the country against "bad guys" (such as those with criminal intent), and not to punish the families of farang overstayers,.. which is precisely the effect that such broad enforcement of the new ban laws would create.

Which "Human Rights Court " would you suggest a decision to ban an overstayer be challenged in ?

[brainfart]

Happy it went as smooth as this for you, good to read.

I guess you have learnt your lesson, now a second chance has been given to you.

Good luck in the future.

He wasn't given a lesson. I would say it was more like he was rewarded for overstaying... He cleared his overstay for a paltry 20K. That's only 2,857 baht per year. No visa applications, no extensions, no border runs, no visa runs and no time wasted at the Immigration office.

You are missing the 7 years in fear of being arrested and sent to the nightmare-like IDC.

How come you guys always count this moneywise? I assure you its not worth the saving of money if you get caught. The hiding, laying low and not be able to breath and travel freely, is a clear downside of overstaying.

He has been given a second chance, at least that was what I felt after my own overstay and stay at the IDC.

It's a bit drastic to think a person would be living in fear. It wouldn't cost much more if caught and I'm sure overstayers know that and prepare for the possibility.

As the OP of this thread, I can tell you that "fear" is something that I had to deal with on a daily basis. I had to psyche myself into a sense of self confidence in that things would be "fine" every time I left the house,,, and certainly when driving, particularly on trips out of town/province, which I had to do on many occasions.

Bear in mind, that for the most part,.. and certainly in the first several years of overstay, I had zero funds to even buy a ticket out of the country,.. let alone pay an overstay fine. I'm afraid it would have been a matter of >> Arrest >> IDC >> Court >> IDC (for goodness knows how long) >> Deportation under duress,.. had I been caught. And that had about the same appeal as a hole in the head!

[elviajero]

You are talking about a tiny minority of overstayers and I'm sure most TV members are sympathetic to those genuinely in dire straits. But note that the OP admits to having 1/2 opportunities to clear his overstay but chose not to. His 3rd paragraph basically confirms that he only cleared the overstay because of the bans.

Your summation is only partially correct. A revision of my OP would clarify the fact that I had a genuine reason to leave the country which coincided with the bans. Perhaps having an 85 year old dying father in Australia isn't a genuine enough reason to want to leave, and yet the bans were?

The original conditions under which I was forced to overstay would probably be too horrific and unimaginable for you to entertain,.. and with respect, are none of anyone's business but my own. I am grateful at least for having been able to pull through them with my sanity, health, marriage and family still in tact! For the record,.. living under the threat of arrest, detention and deportation was no day at the beach, and is something that I am very relieved to have put behind me.

I can assure you, that under the circumstances, the bans were the least of my worries, although I acknowledge they were certainly a concerning factor, despite the fact that I am of the personal opinion that once put under the full scrutiny of Human Rights Law, it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible for any Human Rights treaty country to enforce bans of 1-10 years on men that have Thai wives, Thai children, Thai families, and homes in Thailand, and who have not committed any crime (i.e. caused no harm, injury, loss or suffering to any man/woman), and who's only offence is a breach of an immigration code.

I personally didn't feel like going on a crusade to prove such a point,.. and I'm not sure that it will come to that before the threats of these "lifetime" bans will be either removed or replaced by something that is far more relevant. Perhaps a fine system whereby the 20,000 fine renews and aggregates on a yearly basis? Who knows,.. but, my prediction is that the current ban proposals will not prevail very long into the future.

Please be clear that I'm not condoning overstaying, nor excusing my own overstay under special privileges. I am simply saying that the current system (including the new ban proposals) is in need of a more relevant and sensible approach for it to be considered tenable.

I am sorry to read of your father, but based on your posts I do not believe you would have continued on overstay past March 20th. You would have found a way, like many others, to get legal before the bans kicked in and threatened the separation of your family.

An interesting point regarding human rights but I don't share your opinion. It is against the law to overstay, which makes it a crime regardless of a victim.

Immigration have wanted overstay bans for well over 5 years so I don't seeing the new rules going/changing anytime soon. I believe the bans are the right way to deal with the problem and very relevant.

[UdonMac]

If you are arrested, or imprisoned, or deported and banned you cannot take care of anybody,

Staying legal is number one in my book.

Even if it means going without for a while so you have enough money for visas, extensions, border runs.

I am of no use to my Wife in prison or getting kicked out of the country.

I don't overstay but does anyone know or heard about a farang with a Thai family being imprisoned and/or deported because of overstay???

I am just curious about this.

No, I haven't either. It will be interesting to see whether the 1-10 year bans will be able to be enforced against "farang familymen" as you have indicated. Perhaps they may be initially, but if challenged in the Human Rights court, they might have to reconsider.

There's just too much to have to read into an accurate interpretation of how the new laws are to be administered, but I am of the opinion that the main emphasis is to protect the country against "bad guys" (such as those with criminal intent), and not to punish the families of farang overstayers,.. which is precisely the effect that such broad enforcement of the new ban laws would create.

I personally cleared an overstay of 106 days, a few days after the 20th last month.

The ban should have been into effect, but I was lucky enough to get through. I am now back in Thailand with my family, on a valid visa. Will keep it that way, for sure.

I showed the IOs photos of our marriage, and was met with understanding.

Btw, I started the thread that was deleted a while ago, asking for advice.

I think there still may be some individually made decisions out there.

Mac