British Passport For Wife

[totlanh]

As you may be aware due to a previous post (which got a tad out of line due to my petulance,apologies my wife has lived here in Northern Ireland with me on a EEA family permit.Now im aware that it takes 4 years from the date she entered uk to obtain her British status, however i also believe under British Visa regualtions it only takes 3.Now she will have been here 3 years in March and im wondering if i can avail of this 3 year rule.Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance

Edited November 14, 2006 by totlanh

[GU22]

My initial reaction was to ignore your post. However, on reflection, I will accept your apology and try to answer your question.

With certain exceptions, Crown service etc., applicants for British nationality must have been resident in the UK for a minimum of 5 years, unless they are the spouse of a British citizen in which case it is 3 years. I assume that you are a dual Irish/British national, so she may qualify after 3 years. However, as she entered the UK on the basis of your Irish nationality the IND may treat you as an Irish citizen for this purpose. I can only suggest that you enquire of them, or wait for Scouse to return.

One of the other requirements is that an applicant for British citizenship must be free of any immigration restrictions, in other words must have ILR or the equivalent. If your wife is resident in the UK by virtue of an EEA family permit and does not have ILR, or the equivalent, then she doesn't meet this requirement.

Have a read of British nationality and the links contained therein. Especially Guide AN (NEW) (pdf244Kb)

[totlanh]

My initial reaction was to ignore your post. However, on reflection, I will accept your apology and try to answer your question.

With certain exceptions, Crown service etc., applicants for British nationality must have been resident in the UK for a minimum of 5 years, unless they are the spouse of a British citizen in which case it is 3 years. I assume that you are a dual Irish/British national, so she may qualify after 3 years. However, as she entered the UK on the basis of your Irish nationality the IND may treat you as an Irish citizen for this purpose. I can only suggest that you enquire of them, or wait for Scouse to return.

One of the other requirements is that an applicant for British citizenship must be free of any immigration restrictions, in other words must have ILR or the equivalent. If your wife is resident in the UK by virtue of an EEA family permit and does not have ILR, or the equivalent, then she doesn't meet this requirement.

Have a read of British nationality and the links contained therein. Especially Guide AN (NEW) (pdf244Kb)

Thanks Gu22

[Thaicoon]

My wife has been in the UK 10 years, and my stepdaughter has been here 9 years, i could of applied for there british nationality after 3 years, i am just in the process of doing it, i am 7 years late, last Nov there were new rules out, they both have to take a test now at a test centre or enroll in a english ESOL Course, the test is the life in the uk test, once she passes this she can get citezenship and apply for british passport, time go's by so quick i just forgot all about this, now we are hoping to go to live in Thailand maybe next year or year after, so i want her to have a british passport, as we are tending to travel quite a bit.

The test is hard, i think so, stupid questions, more history than anything else, you can buy a test cd on the net, here is the link.

http://www.britishcitizenship-test.co.uk/?...CFRh4EQodPHfBoQ

All the best.

[Mossfinn]

The test is hard, i think so, stupid questions, more history than anything else, you can buy a test cd on the net, here is the link.

Hi Totlanh,

Just to reinforce the point above, it can be difficult but as long as you do the hard yards and read the text book it is reasonably straight forward as long as you revise and test your other half on a frequent basis.

My take on another of your points, if you are married and there are no restictions it can be done in three years and five years in other circumstances, but I think you know that part.

If you want to go through the Irish and the EEA route it is actually easier to get the visa.

But you need to speak to Scouse why, he explained it to me in the pub consequently I can't remember, the salient points.

Having quickly re-read your post, it is probably why you went the EEA route in the first place, but as you are from the North and so part of the UK, it would be my opinion that it will be 3 years.

But, as ever, Scouse will put any mis-information I put forward, to rights.

Good Luck

Moss

[the scouser]

Totlanh,

As you've gone the EEA route, the Home Office expects you to stick with it, so your wife can apply for indefinite leave after 5 years and for naturalisation as a Brit. cit. once she's held ILR for 1 year.

Scouse.

[totlanh]

Thanks all for your replys

[vinny]

Totlanh,

As you've gone the EEA route, the Home Office expects you to stick with it, so your wife can apply for indefinite leave after 5 years and for naturalisation as a Brit. cit. once she's held ILR for 1 year.

Scouse.

Scouse, if Totlanh is also a UK citizen, I wonder if his wife will have to wait and hold her ILR for at least 1 year before applying for British citizenship. Once she has gotten her Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) or No Time Limit (NTL) after 5 years via the EEA route, would it matter how she had obtained it? If she was a wife of a British citizen, would it be possible her to apply for British citizenship on the day she received her ILR or NTL provided she statisfied the 3 year residence and other requirements?

EUROPEAN ECONOMIC AREA NATIONALS AND SWISS NATIONALS

EEA nationals who have a conditional right of residence in the United Kingdom under European Community (EC) law (such as workers and business people) are not regarded as free from immigration time restrictions. They need to obtain indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom before applying for British citizenship. If not married to a British citizen, they should have indefinite leave to remain for 12 months before applying for British citizenship. Application forms for indefinite leave to remain may be obtained by telephone 0870 606 7766.

The "If not married to a British citizen ..." suggests that there is a difference when "if married to a British citizen ...", where:

If you are married to a British citizen you only need to be free from immigration restrictions on the day you apply.

and

If you are applying on the basis of marriage to a British citizen the legal requirements are the same as

1

2

4

5

6 above

and you have lived in the UK for 3 years.

Edited November 16, 2006 by vinny

[GU22]

With respect, Vinny, I think the paragraph you have quoted refers to EEA nationals who are married to a British citizen. Totlanh's wife is not an EEA national.

[vinny]

Thanks, GU22. I see what you mean. You are right. Too fast reading.

Still, under the EEA route, Totlanh's wife should obtain her ILR after 5 years. Doesn't this complete the EEA route?

If Totlanh is also a British citizen, then could his wife (irrespective of her nationality or how she got her ILR) apply for naturalisation, immediately after getting her ILR, on the basis of marriage to a UK citizen? Having obtained her ILR, I don't see why she would have to wait for another year.

Edited November 16, 2006 by vinny

[GU22]

Depends, I think, if the IND accept the change of status of her husband. (Put clumsily, I know, but I couldn't think of a better way.)

If they will allow him to use his British nationality for this purpose, then she should be able to apply immediately she has ILR. If they insist on treating him as Irish, then she'll have to wait the 12 months after ILR.

I tend to agree with Scouse when he said

As you've gone the EEA route, the Home Office expects you to stick with it

[vinny]

I also agree with Scouse.

The Home Office expects Totlanh's wife to stick with the EEA route for the purposes of obtaining the ILR. However, is naturalisation part of the EEA route? I think that the EEA route may be completed when she obtains her ILR.

Edited November 16, 2006 by vinny

[the scouser]

My understanding is that the Home Office don't allow you to cherry pick, and once you've pinned your colours to the mast that's it unless you want to start the whole process from scratch; i.e. Mrs Totlanh leaves the UK and seeks a visa as the spouse of a Brit. cit.

Consequently, totlanh's wife will achieve indefinite leave as the spouse of an Irish citizen who is exercising treaty rights in the UK, and come any application for naturalisation, he will still be regarded as being Irish and not British. It's therefore my belief that his wife won't qualify for naturalisation until she has spent 6 years in the UK (5 as the spouse of an EEA national and 1 as the holder of indefinite leave).

Scouse.

[vinny]

Scouse, this seems to be inconsistent with the logic in my quote above regarding EEA citizens who are also married to UK citizens. There, presumably the EEA citizen entered and remained in the UK under the EEA regulations. However, once having obtained the ILR, they can also benefit from their marriages when applying for naturalisation.

Doesn't this suggest that naturalisation applications may be considered as a new process and not a continuation of the EEA regulations?

[GU22]

No, I don't think so. It's not the nationality of the person applying that counts, it's the nationality of the spouse.

An EEA citizen married to British citizen can apply once they have ILR because their spouse is British. In this case, the spouse isn't British, he is Irish, or at least will be treated as such even though he also has British nationality because he used his Irish nationality to obtain an EEA family permit for her.

If he wanted his wife to have the same rights as the spouse of a British citizen then he should have used his British nationality and applied for a settlement visa, not used his Irish nationality to apply for an EEA family permit.

[the scouser]

Doesn't this suggest that naturalisation applications may be considered as a new process and not a continuation of the EEA regulations?

Vinny,

You're right that naturalisation is a new process, but it is directly linked to the applicant's immigration status and how that was achieved. Indeed, the naturalisation office in Liverpool will make reference to the same Home Office file as used by other departments which, in this instance, will show totlanh to be presenting himself as being Irish rather than British. GU22 has summed it up quite succinctly.

Scouse.

[vinny]

Thanks Scouse and GU22 for the clarification.

To sum up, the problem lies in the fact that Totlanh had previously declared himself to be Irish rather than British when applying for his wife's EEA permit. As stated in the Diplomatic Service Procedures on dual nationals (21.4.7), family members would not be entitled to apply for settled status until they had resided with the Irish / Dual or EEA national in the UK for five years.

Furthermore, because of how her settled status was achieved, he would still not be regarded as British when she applies for naturalisation.

Hypothetically, how would this effect applicants who entered the UK under the Surinder Singh cases? There, the foreign spouse entered as a family member of a UK citizen under EC law. From the above, can I assume that it would be possible for the foreign spouse to benefit from the marriage to the UK citizen when applying for naturalisation?

Edited November 19, 2006 by vinny

[the scouser]

My gut instinct is that they can't, as the spouse, although a British citizen, has had notional "European" citizenship bestowed upon them.

Scouse.

[vinny]

Thanks, Scouse. Just out of curiosity, what persuaded you to change your mind?

It does not, however, detract from your entitlement to otherwise present yourself as being a British citizen.

I tend to agree with your earlier assessment!

Upon getting indefinite leave your wife would be able to seek naturalisation on the basis of being married to a Brit and to have been residing in the UK for in excess of 3 years.

[totlanh]

Hi ,

Scouse,when my wife recieved her stamo and i the permit the supporting letter claimed that she could claim British status after 4 years i am therefore somewhat alarmed and confused when you state in your opinion it will take 6.Would you minds further clarrifying this as along with this letter 2 lawyers over here in Belfast are too of the opinion that it is 4 years.Thanks

[totlanh]

Thanks, GU22. I see what you mean. You are right. Too fast reading.

Still, under the EEA route, Totlanh's wife should obtain her ILR after 5 years. Doesn't this complete the EEA route?

If Totlanh is also a British citizen, then could his wife (irrespective of her nationality or how she got her ILR) apply for naturalisation, immediately after getting her ILR, on the basis of marriage to a UK citizen? Having obtained her ILR, I don't see why she would have to wait for another year.

Subject to paragraph (4), a residence permit issued under the 2000 Regulations shall, after 29th April 2006, be treated as if it were a registration certificate issued under these Regulations.

I think i just found the answer!!!I was unaware that anything had even changed and to be hionest i think it is disgusting that this is allowed.Whilst myself and my wife thought we only had another year for her to get her passport it now transpies she has another 3.Im really pissed off!!!!

[vinny]

Yes. The TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS made obtaining permanent residence 5 years for people who entered under the 2000 Regulations.

Hi ,

Scouse,when my wife recieved her stamo and i the permit the supporting letter claimed that she could claim British status after 4 years.

However, the "4 years" suggests that they would have taken your British status into account for your wife's naturalisation application. If they still take that view, then your wife may apply for naturalisation after 5 years.

[the scouser]

Thanks, Scouse. Just out of curiosity, what persuaded you to change your mind?

It does not, however, detract from your entitlement to otherwise present yourself as being a British citizen.

I didn't phrase it very well at the time. The post was in relation to Surinder Singh-type cases (where the principal is a Brit cit but is presenting himself as a "European" citizen) and my reference was meant in general terms, not necessarily in relation to immigration.

I tend to agree with your earlier assessment!

Upon getting indefinite leave your wife would be able to seek naturalisation on the basis of being married to a Brit and to have been residing in the UK for in excess of 3 years.

I previously tried to push the line with the Home Office that the spouse of a Brit/EEA dual national, who entered the UK as an EEA dependant, could apply for naturalisation immediately upon receipt of ILR after 4 years on the basis that they're married to a Brit, have spent 3 years in the UK, and have ILR. I got short shrift.

Yes. The TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS made obtaining permanent residence 5 years for people who entered under the 2000 Regulations.

Hi ,

Scouse,when my wife recieved her stamo and i the permit the supporting letter claimed that she could claim British status after 4 years.

However, the "4 years" suggests that they would have taken your British status into account for your wife's naturalisation application. If they still take that view, then your wife may apply for naturalisation after 5 years.

Totlanh,

I've a nagging suspicion that the letter may well say that she can seek ILR after 4 years, which is different to British citizenship. As you now know, they've moved the goalposts and she has to serve 5 years in order to get the ILR. If you're so inclined, please post the relevant bit of the letter.

Scouse.

[totlanh]

Thanks, Scouse. Just out of curiosity, what persuaded you to change your mind?

It does not, however, detract from your entitlement to otherwise present yourself as being a British citizen.

I didn't phrase it very well at the time. The post was in relation to Surinder Singh-type cases (where the principal is a Brit cit but is presenting himself as a "European" citizen) and my reference was meant in general terms, not necessarily in relation to immigration.

I tend to agree with your earlier assessment!

Upon getting indefinite leave your wife would be able to seek naturalisation on the basis of being married to a Brit and to have been residing in the UK for in excess of 3 years.

Thanks

I will try to dig it out and thanks Vinny Gu22 and evereyone else who has responded

I previously tried to push the line with the Home Office that the spouse of a Brit/EEA dual national, who entered the UK as an EEA dependant, could apply for naturalisation immediately upon receipt of ILR after 4 years on the basis that they're married to a Brit, have spent 3 years in the UK, and have ILR. I got short shrift.

Yes. The TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS made obtaining permanent residence 5 years for people who entered under the 2000 Regulations.

Hi ,

Scouse,when my wife recieved her stamo and i the permit the supporting letter claimed that she could claim British status after 4 years.

However, the "4 years" suggests that they would have taken your British status into account for your wife's naturalisation application. If they still take that view, then your wife may apply for naturalisation after 5 years.

Totlanh,

I've a nagging suspicion that the letter may well say that she can seek ILR after 4 years, which is different to British citizenship. As you now know, they've moved the goalposts and she has to serve 5 years in order to get the ILR. If you're so inclined, please post the relevant bit of the letter.

Scouse.

Thanks

I will try to dig it out and thanks Vinny Gu22 and evereyone else who has responded

[vinny]

I previously tried to push the line with the Home Office that the spouse of a Brit/EEA dual national, who entered the UK as an EEA dependant, could apply for naturalisation immediately upon receipt of ILR after 4 years on the basis that they're married to a Brit, have spent 3 years in the UK, and have ILR. I got short shrift.

Thanks, Scouse. I was trying to push the same line as you were.

[dunez]

Hi everyone,

My wife arrived in England in Nov 03, and was granted indefinate leave to remain in Nov 05, which I think is the same as residency. (I dont have her passport to hand). When would she be able to apply for a British passport, and when the passport is granted does she lose any of her 'Thai' rights? Thanks in advance. Also would she have to take 'the test'?

[the scouser]

Dunez,

Your wife can apply for naturalisation as a Brit. cit. once she has been in the UK for 3 years. There are various minor rules that she has to satisfy, but the principal one is that she can't have spent more than 270 days outside of the UK within the last 3 years and no more than 90 in the last year. In order for her application to be successful, she will either have to have passed an ESOL with Citizenship course or will have to sit the Life in the UK test before applying.

This should have no bearing upon her rights as a Thai citizen.

Scouse.

[GU22]

See British nationality and the associated links on the Immigration and Nationality Directorate website.