British Jews seek German citizenship on Brexit fears

[xineohp]

8 hours ago, MobileContent said:

Jews have a special status in Germany and as a German I fully support it due to the history what we did to them from 1933-45.

"...what we did to them...".  That's quite a statement and it's the "we" that Germans today would find hard to accept, and quite rightly so.      

[xineohp]

9 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

They prefer to be part of Europe and they have the right under Germany's Basic Law. It gives Jews whose citizenship was revoked by the Nazis the prerogative to have it restored - that includes their decedents.

 

One very much doubts that they will encounter any great difficulty in making the transition but will they then renounce any claim to British citizenship?

[Morakot]

2 minutes ago, xineohp said:

"...what we did to them...".  That's quite a statement and it's the "we" that Germans today would find hard to accept, and quite rightly so.      

 

I like the way you put the "we" in inverted commas. I think, that's what they usually mean, when German people talk about collective consciousnesses.

[Morakot]

1 minute ago, xineohp said:

 

One very much doubts that they will encounter any great difficulty in making the transition but will they then renounce any claim to British citizenship?

 

No, read above.

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

I think you'll find that "the past is fading" is purely your personal perspective - in Germany that is certainly not the case - it would be helpful if some Brits also actually paid a bit more attention to the past and learned from it.........

 

And Australians too sport. They've not much of a past but have certainly not learned much about how they should treat aboriginals; about incarcerating people on someone else's land; about paying people smugglers to smuggler the people away again. They do know about elections though given the amount of PM's they get through.

 

I've been a regular visitor to Germany, lived there, worked there, and spent lot of social time there. Never have I encountered anti-semitism in an entrenched discriminatory sense. Sure Germany has it's neo nazi right wing extremists and football skinheads as other countries do. But most Germans, IME, regard them as loons. The growth in right wing politics has been sparked by Muslim mass uncontrolled immigration, the social problems that brings with it; and a growing discontent many have with certain politicians and their vision of a EU super state federal bureaucracy where real political change is a thing of the past.

 

For those families forced to flee Germany and stripped of their German citizenship, they have every right to regain that citizenship and hopefully some of the assets stolen from them where feasible. Surprised they haven't acquired dual citizenship before.

 

The headline is IMO inflammatory. They suggest all British Jews are fleeing and trying to get German citizenship. Nothing of the sort. Some families never bothered to regain their illegally stripped citizenship and now, as it might be advantageous they will do. Hardly all of British Jewry.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

18 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Couldn't they just get a N Ireland passport for full euro access?

 

Irish jews…imagine that….oy vey, laddie.

 

There is no such thing as a Northern Ireland passport. So getting one might be a tad difficult.

[GuestHouse]

21 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Couldn't they just get a N Ireland passport for full euro access?

 

Irish jews…imagine that….oy vey, laddie.

There are many Irish Jews and people who are decended from Irish Jews. Cork in particular has a high number of people of Jewish heritage.

 

 

 

[Shawn0000]

5 hours ago, HerbalEd said:

I think you're the only one laughing here. BTW, no one laughs when the joker laughs at his own jokes.

 

Well it's not a very free country though, is it?  Very long conscription time, no free press, living behind a wall, not a place I would choose to bring up my kids.

[Shawn0000]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Of course

 

I think that, like several Northern European countries, they've taken more than their share of the asylum seekers.

 

However, Danes are no where near as Xenophobic as the English. I don't think their Jews or Poles feel as threatened as those in England.

 

Do you know much about Denmark or other Nordic countries? I lived there and found it very friendly and civilised.

 

Denmark hasnt taken that many, it is EU migrants that have pushed them into changing their rules, they have received about 10 times as many European migrants than refugees in recent years.

[Morakot]

40 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

There is no such thing as a Northern Ireland passport. So getting one might be a tad difficult.

 

It's all a matter of having the right connection; a few dolláros and Bob is your uncle.

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by Morakot

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, Morakot said:

 

Little you seem to know...  It's all a matter of having the right connection.

 

 

Do let us know how you get on when traveling on it.

 

It would have Ulster on and no funny writing if remotely real 

[SheungWan]

Some of the racist and conspiracy theories emanating from parts of the Brexit camp have left a nasty after-taste. Always worth considering options if one has a choice.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Morakot said:

 

That's very interesting. The criteria for naturalization in Germany are quite high: language and cultural awareness requirements, and more. But this seems to be not applicable for the descendants of German Jews, who had lost their citizenship rights during the third Reich.

 

JT, here another unrelated story you might enjoy reading.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/23/germany-israel-citizenship

When I mention failing to migrate to Israel, I was talking about success rates of actually integrating in to Israeli society. Any Jewish person (ethnically, there isn't a requirement of religious practice)  that is eligible under Israel's right of return can apply for Israeli citizenship but actually succeeding to live and work in Israel is another thing. I have no idea what percentage of Jews that attempt integration into Israeli society and fail (usually move back where they came from in cases where it's possible) actually retain their Israeli citizenship. Two different things.

 

A reason often cited for native born Israelis (the majority of Israelis are native born) to move to Germany (ironic a choice as that may be) is economic opportunity / relatively affordable cost of living. Similar to why many westerners move to Thailand.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Jingthing

[JHolmesJr]

48 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

There is no such thing as a Northern Ireland passport. So getting one might be a tad difficult.

 

sorry….bingo player moment…i meant rep of ireland….sorry for the confusion.

[oldlakey]

6 hours ago, swanny321 said:

  If one of the stipulations is learning to speak German; I doubt we have to worry about loosing their considerable contributions to society.Brits as islanders are notoriously bad with second languages!

And some of us are still trying to master the first one

[Shawn0000]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

When I mention failing to migrate to Israel, I was talking about success rates of actually integrating in to Israeli society. Any Jewish person (ethnically, there isn't a requirement of religious practice)  that is eligible under Israel's right of return can apply for Israeli citizenship but actually succeeding to live and work in Israel is another thing. I have no idea what percentage of Jews that attempt integration into Israeli society and fail (usually move back where they came from in cases where it's possible) actually retain their Israeli citizenship. Two different things.

 

A reason often cited for native born Israelis (the majority of Israelis are native born) to move to Germany (ironic a choice as that may be) is economic opportunity / relatively affordable cost of living. Similar to why many westerners move to Thailand.

 

What qualifies as being ethnically Jewish?  Palestinians are of the same ethnicity, as are Cypriots, can they apply to "return"?

[oldlakey]

10 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

I think you'll find that "the past is fading" is purely your personal perspective - in Germany that is certainly not the case - it would be helpful if some Brits also actually paid a bit more attention to the past and learned from it.........

A bit of advice old cock

Its you that needs to learn from the past we have overcome and recovered from far worse situations than this

Its called guts and backbone

Try it sometime

 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

What qualifies as being ethnically Jewish?  Palestinians are of the same ethnicity, as are Cypriots, can they apply to "return"?

The simplest answer to that is to have a Jewish mother as Jewish ethnicity is matrilineal in nature. Palestinians, Cypriots, Chinese, etc. with Jewish mothers as well. 

 

A more expanded answer is to refer to the actual law:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/Other_Law_Law_of_Return.html

 

Quote

 

Definition

4B. For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion."

 

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by Jingthing

[Shawn0000]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The simplest answer to that is to have a Jewish mother as Jewish ethnicity is matrilineal in nature. Palestinians, Cypriots, Chinese, etc. with Jewish mothers as well. 

 

A more expanded answer is to refer to the actual law:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/Other_Law_Law_of_Return.html

 

 

 

Ok, so actually ancestrally then rather than ethnically, I did think it sounded implausible.

[Jingthing]

26 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Ok, so actually ancestrally then rather than ethnically, I did think it sounded implausible.

Not exactly, but if that makes you happy to believe it's a simplistic either/or ...  great. Jewish is an ethnoreligious group  but within that of course there is diversity in both flavors of Jewish religious practice (if any) and also Jewish ethnicities (Ashekanazi, Sephardic, Mizrahi, "Arab Jews",  Ethiopian, minority converts  / cross marriage, etc.). 

 

In reference to the Jews with historical ties to Germany in the O.P., they would generally be Ashkenazi. The majority of modern Israelis are not. 

 

http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.htm

 

Quote

 

• There are several subgroups of Jews with different culture and traditions:
Ashkenazic: Descendants of Jews from France, Germany and Eastern Europe
Sephardic: Descendants of Jews from Spain, Portugal, North Africa and the Middle East
Mizrachi: Descendants of Jews from North Africa and the Middle East
• Other subgroups are Yemenite, Ethiopian and Oriental

 

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by Jingthing

[Shawn0000]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not exactly, but if that makes you happy to believe it's a simplistic either/or ...  great. Jewish is an ethnoreligious group  but within that of course there is diversity in both flavors of Jewish religious practice (if any) and also Jewish ethnicities (Ashekanazi, Sephardic, Mizrahi, "Arab Jews",  Ethiopian, minority converts  / cross marriage, etc.). 

 

In reference to the Jews with historical ties to Germany in the O.P., they would generally be Ashkenazi. The majority of modern Israelis are not. 

 

http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.htm

 

 

 

Well, that's just not a very modern way to look at the religion, there are Jews of many ethnic groups, sure Ashkenanazi Jews became their own little ethnic group due to their centuries of isolationism, and the majority in Germany may be this type of Jew, but that does not hold true for Jews as a whole, and this is about Jews not about some Jews, right?  Anyway, obviously the way they are doing it is as you say, by looking at lineage and leaving the whole racial pride thing out of it, thankfully, and thus also being inclusive of those who would be left out due to being Jews but not of a particular ethnicity.

[Norvid]

So now Jews fleeing England to join their own compatriot Angela Merkel. What is the agenda behind all of these? In early 80-ties Jews were leaving South Africa, Sounds familiar, isn't it? 

[Naam]

8 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

not necessarily so - there are provisions for dual citizenship....if they need it....

I qualify for 3 outside the EU and 2 inside the EU - just a matter of choosing which....maybe all?

 

 

being a German who is familiar with the topic i can only say keep on dreaming, but please no fairy tales.

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Well, that's just not a very modern way to look at the religion, there are Jews of many ethnic groups, sure Ashkenanazi Jews became their own little ethnic group due to their centuries of isolationism, and the majority in Germany may be this type of Jew, but that does not hold true for Jews as a whole, and this is about Jews not about some Jews, right?  Anyway, obviously the way they are doing it is as you say, by looking at lineage and leaving the whole racial pride thing out of it, thankfully, and thus also being inclusive of those who would be left out due to being Jews but not of a particular ethnicity.

I don't know what you're on about.

The German thing was referring to Jews with ties to Germany.  

That's a pretty normal thing for countries to do. 

For example Italy (last time I checked) offers or offered a path to citizenship to foreign nationals who could prove an Italian relative background.

Israeli right of return law yes applies to all Jewish people that meet the definition of a Jewish person under that law. 

 

Modern? Huh? Being aware of the diversity of Jewish religious practice (or lack thereof) and also the different ethnic/culture groups comprising the Jewish people isn't modern to you?  Or perhaps you are just against any people being conscious of their background. Not modern enough for you? 

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Norvid said:

So now Jews fleeing England to join their own compatriot Angela Merkel. What is the agenda behind all of these? In early 80-ties Jews were leaving South Africa, Sounds familiar, isn't it? 

The agenda of poisonous Jew hating is always with us ... I can see that agenda. 

[AGLV0121]

15 hours ago, swanny321 said:

  If one of the stipulations is learning to speak German; I doubt we have to worry about loosing their considerable contributions to society.Brits as islanders are notoriously bad with second languages!

 

Maybe but those who speak Yiddish aren't too far from German! And Jews are usually good at languages (but Israelis)

 

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, AGLV0121 said:

 

Maybe but those who speak Yiddish aren't too far from German! And Jews are usually good at languages (but Israelis)

 

The vast majority would NOT speak Yiddish. It's a near dead language. Sadly.

The peppering of a few Yiddish words from some Jewish comedians and the popularity of Klezmer music is not the tip of the iceberg ... there is no Yiddish iceberg.

Very old Jews from that area would speak it but it's not passed on to young people for a very long time now.

Modern Jews in the diaspora if they want to learn a Jewish language, would usually learn modern Hebrew.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Jingthing

[Shawn0000]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I don't know what you're on about.

The German thing was referring to Jews with ties to Germany.  

That's a pretty normal thing for countries to do. 

For example Italy (last time I checked) offers or offered a path to citizenship to foreign nationals who could prove an Italian relative background.

Israeli right of return law yes applies to all Jewish people that meet the definition of a Jewish person under that law. 

 

Modern? Huh? Being aware of the diversity of Jewish religious practice (or lack thereof) and also the different ethnic/culture groups comprising the Jewish people isn't modern to you?  Or perhaps you are just against any people being conscious of their background. Not modern enough for you? 

 

 

You first said that they were basing their acceptance on ethnicity, they are not, they are basing it on a proven ancestry, that is all that really matters.  There are some Jews that seem to think that Jewish is an ethnicity just because some Jews do have a unique ethnicity, that is what I am on about, their ethnicity has nothing to do with the religion, it is merely a coincidence, and I find that kind of exclusivity that is present in some Jews to be an old fashioned way of thinking.

[Morakot]

^^ Gentlemen, for your clarification:

 

Modernity or modern times refers to the era between the early 16th century and the mid 20th century.

[ilostmypassword]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The vast majority would NOT speak Yiddish. It's a near dead language. Sadly.

The peppering of a few Yiddish words from some Jewish comedians and the popularity of Klezmer music is not the tip of the iceberg ... there is no Yiddish iceberg.

Very old Jews from that area would speak it but it's not passed on to young people for a very long time now.

Modern Jews in the diaspora if they want to learn a Jewish language, would usually learn modern Hebrew.

Actually, in the UK, the Hasidic community speaks Yiddish as their first language.  The same applies to those in the USA.  Yiddish is emphatically not near dead.