Why Say It, If You Don't Mean It.

[Strange]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, I am not willing to see things the same as you. But no, things are not what you think them to be.

 

How the hell is face a misconception? Yes I know I look at the world very different than you, but getting personal aside, what are you talking about? Totally exists here. Hardcore. 

[Deepinthailand]

4 hours ago, Strange said:

 

Do you have an odd job man? What are you paying him to keep him retained and how do you look after him?

As I've posted we have a man and wife team who I call upon as needed for a variety of jobs we pay well and feed them they are exellent workers and I may add good friends now as well.

[Strange]

4 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

As I've posted we have a man and wife team who I call upon as needed for a variety of jobs we pay well and feed them they are exellent workers and I may add good friends now as well.

 

Well that does not help much. Ive been involved in building all kinds of stuff here and paying locals. 

 

I was asking for details as you seem to have figured out a wonderful trick you should share. 

 

What do they do? How much do you pay? General location in Thailand? 

[Deepinthailand]

13 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Ah yes, of you don't like it, leave. How original. So Thai. 

 

Just because you find some things aggravating does not mean you can't talk about it or complain, or in your case, act like it does not exist. 

 

Doesn't mean you have to pack up and leave. 

I said find a new home not leave the country wish people would read s post before jumping in so quickly to try look good. What doesn't exist by the way?? Ps I'm not thai never will be nor never want to be.

I find the people I employ come when asked do a great job and are far more diligent than many so called trades I dealt with in the UK. So please Mr STRANGE . Please read post before slipping ones foot in ones mouth.

[Deepinthailand]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Well that does not help much. Ive been involved in building all kinds of stuff here and paying locals. 

 

I was asking for details as you seem to have figured out a wonderful trick you should share. 

 

What do they do? How much do you pay? General location in Thailand? 

Jesus do you want my inside leg size as well.

What I pay is well over the minimum wage here (I never disclose payments to other people). Genral location why does that matter Thailand belive it or not.

They do many things not everything but between them they can handle most jobs. 

[Strange]

1 minute ago, Deepinthailand said:

Jesus do you want my inside leg size as well.

What I pay is well over the minimum wage here (I never disclose payments to other people). Genral location why does that matter Thailand belive it or not.

They do many things not everything but between them they can handle most jobs. 

 

lmao ok man calm down. 

 

Location? Totally matters.

 

Disclosing payment? Um, well, hardly a top secret subject on an anonymous forum and would be informational to a lot of people. 

 

"Many things but not everything"? Really.... 

 

Anyway ok you don't have to talk about it if you don't want to. 

[rijb]

4 hours ago, Strange said:

 

Do you have an odd job man? What are you paying him to keep him retained and how do you look after him?

 

'odd man' seems to be more common.  Even Thais get frustrated with the unpredictability, in the workforce.  

 

It's silly to say a "decent wage" will solve the problem. 

[Deepinthailand]

18 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

lmao ok man calm down. 

 

Location? Totally matters.

 

Disclosing payment? Um, well, hardly a top secret subject on an anonymous forum and would be informational to a lot of people. 

 

"Many things but not everything"? Really.... 

 

Anyway ok you don't have to talk about it if you don't want to. 

Good you can be ignored again now. For your records I am calm always.

I never talk about what agreements I have with other people it's called confidentiality.

Yes many things not all that's why we call jack of all trades odd job men.

350 bht is the minimum wage structure for most thai's now however I belive a lot are now asking for 400 bht a day to work the fields during rice/sugar cutting. Let's just say I pay a lot more than those figures and never have a problem. We also have a list of people who want to work for us at harvest time. So I see the problem as farang in the main seem to think they only have to pay the minimum then expect the maximum out of there work force. Where as I on the other hand pay a decent livable wage and get a high standard of work as a result. When I have employed people in the UK and Malta and Gibraltar I have always paid well above the minimum and I always will. 

PS I to have had vast dealing gs in building here in thailand

[Strange]

34 minutes ago, rijb said:

 

'odd man' seems to be more common.  Even Thais get frustrated with the unpredictability, in the workforce.  

 

It's silly to say a "decent wage" will solve the problem. 

 

Exactly. 

 

The wage may be some of it, but the issue is cultural. You could triple wages overnight and would have the exact same problem. Thais don't care if you are negatively effected by their actions. They will be flakey and undependable even at 1000 baht a day. Its just how they are, aggravating as that may be. 

[Deepinthailand]

38 minutes ago, rijb said:

 

'odd man' seems to be more common.  Even Thais get frustrated with the unpredictability, in the workforce.  

 

It's silly to say a "decent wage" will solve the problem. 

Would you work a full day for 350 bht? (7.7 quid)

Would you work a full day for say 4500 bht an hour (about 10 quid english).

So how can you say s decent wage won't fix it?

[Strange]

Just now, Deepinthailand said:

Would you work a full day for 350 bht? (7.7 quid)

Would you work a full day for say 4500 bht an hour (about 10 quid english).

So how can you say s decent wage won't fix it?

 

Nobody cares about the UK in the context of Thailand. Does not matter. Cant compare. 

[Deepinthailand]

26 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Nobody cares about the UK in the context of Thailand. Does not matter. Cant compare. 

Who said anything about the UK i was mearly putting bhat into context for wages.Your not reading posts again are we.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Deepinthailand

[Strange]

5 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

Who said anything about the UK i was mearly putting bhat into context for wages.Your not reading posts again are we.

 

Do you think you are enlightening anyone as to wage context? Most of us are from countries that are using Pound, Euro, Dollar, etc... 

 

You can not think in foreign currency, you have to think in baht. You have to decide what a good deal is, in baht. You have to think about what a good wage is, in Baht. You cant think about how it is in another country. 

 

Totally pointless the direction you are trying to go with this. 

[Deepinthailand]

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Do you think you are enlightening anyone as to wage context? Most of us are from countries that are using Pound, Euro, Dollar, etc... 

 

You can not think in foreign currency, you have to think in baht. You have to decide what a good deal is, in baht. You have to think about what a good wage is, in Baht. You cant think about how it is in another country. 

 

Totally pointless the direction you are trying to go with this. 

I could say a lot but I won't I was breaking it down for the likes of you to understand but I should have know better really you can't help those who refused to be helped can you. Direction?? I am saying pay a fair days wage and then unlike some I don't get monkeys exept on hear of course.

[Strange]

Just now, Deepinthailand said:

I am saying pay a fair days wage and then unlike some I don't get monkeys exept on hear of course.

 

And what I'm saying is a fair days wage in another country isn't a fair days wage in thailand. 

[sandemara]

I've found that if you treat people exactly the way you'd like to be treated (conversation, business negotiations socially etc) that's the way you'll be treated in return.  If people don't respect your feelings the reason (and solution) can mostly be found within yourself.  If you expect to be let down or disappointed by a particular person in a given situation your subconsciously-projected manner will help ensure an unhappy result.  Nothing to do with culture or stereotypes; more to do with bone-headed ignorance and rejection of open-mindedness.

[stevenl]

 
Do you think you are enlightening anyone as to wage context? Most of us are from countries that are using Pound, Euro, Dollar, etc... 
 
You can not think in foreign currency, you have to think in baht. You have to decide what a good deal is, in baht. You have to think about what a good wage is, in Baht. You cant think about how it is in another country. 
 
Totally pointless the direction you are trying to go with this. 

If you don't understand a post, don't react to it. The comparison made was Thai Baht vs Thai Baht.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Strange]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

If you don't understand a post, don't react to it. The comparison made was Thai Baht vs Thai Baht.

 

Thanks, mom. Ill be sure to remember that & stuff. 

 

Dude was talking about 350 & 4500 baht & english pound & how a decent wage could fix thailands problems. 

 

Triple the minimum wage here and it still won't solve the face thing. Still won't solve the tardiness thing. Its how they operate and the mindset they use. 

[stevenl]

 
Thanks, mom. Ill be sure to remember that & stuff. 
 
Dude was talking about 350 & 4500 baht & english pound & how a decent wage could fix thailands problems. 
 
Triple the minimum wage here and it still won't solve the face thing. Still won't solve the tardiness thing. Its how they operate and the mindset they use. 

So you do understand, just disagree. Why pretend otherwise, think that just comes naturally.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[rijb]

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

Would you work a full day for 350 bht? (7.7 quid)

Would you work a full day for say 4500 bht an hour (about 10 quid english).

So how can you say s decent wage won't fix it?

 

Experience.  We built 3 houses.  

 

They might show up for those wages.  It doesn't mean you'll get what you pay for.

 

[Deepinthailand]

35 minutes ago, rijb said:

 

Experience.  We built 3 houses.  

 

They might show up for those wages.  It doesn't mean you'll get what you pay for.

 

We have a separate house team I'm talking about odd job men and field workers. Paid top rates to builders in UK got crap there as well.

[Deepinthailand]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

 

And what I'm saying is a fair days wage in another country isn't a fair days wage in thailand. 

Wrong again never mind one day you might read correctly.

[mick220675]

What I have learnt is many Thais think it is demeaning to work for a farang. I have had three different people looking after my garden over the past 15 years, I have always paid well. When the previous workers have left they have told me people in the village talked down to them because they work for a farang. They now work for Thais for less money but have saved face.

 

When we had a tractor my wife's brother would not drive it for 500 baht a day, when we sold the tractor to the wife's uncle her brother had no problem driving it for 300 baht a day.

 

I currently pay a woman to look after our garden 400 baht a day with drinks and food. She works twice a week comes when she wants to it is impossible for her to work to a time table as she has other work.

 

At the moment the wife is paying people 300 baht a day to cut sugar, they tell her most people are paying less. Some are paid by the amount they cut and can earn less than 200 baht a day. Life is difficult for the rural poor but its better than working for a farang who pays more, feeds them, gives them drinks and treats them with respect.

 

 

 

[Deepinthailand]

2 minutes ago, mick220675 said:

What I have learnt is many Thais think it is demeaning to work for a farang. I have had three different people looking after my garden over the past 15 years, I have always paid well. When the previous workers have left they have told me people in the village talked down to them because they work for a farang. They now work for Thais for less money but have saved face.

 

When we had a tractor my wife's brother would not drive it for 500 baht a day, when we sold the tractor to the wife's uncle her brother had no problem driving it for 300 baht a day.

 

I currently pay a woman to look after our garden 400 baht a day with drinks and food. She works twice a week comes when she wants to it is impossible for her to work to a time table as she has other work.

 

At the moment the wife is paying people 300 baht a day to cut sugar, they tell her most people are paying less. Some are paid by the amount they cut and can earn less than 200 baht a day. Life is difficult for the rural poor but its better than working for a farang who pays more, feeds them, gives them drinks and treats them with respect.

 

 

 

Well I find everything you said to be exactly the opposite in my part of rural thialand. 300 bht a day for cutting sugar you have a bargain 400 here. Sugar cane is being bought for 1020 bht per ton as of 1500 today at our local buyer. So if they are paid for the amount cut I suspect unless there slow as death they will make a hell of a lot more than 300 bht a day. Unless of course some unscrupulous employers are not weighing to cut and paying by the cane.

As stated before we have a list of workers waiting to cut for us if anyone drops out non are bothered or lose face for working for a Farang.

[jerojero]

14 hours ago, canopy said:

I have many experiences like the OP. If I need something I ask them to choose the day and price. Most of the time they are a no show. They won't tell you they aren't coming which is impolite and furthermore will not answer their phone when you try to find out what happened. This is beyond laziness. Why agree if you had no intention of doing anything? This causes them to lose face because anytime you see them afterward they are in that awkward position of having deliberately broken a promise for no good reason and you both know it.

 

Appointments with for Thai services don't seem to work.  Time and timeliness moves at different pace in Thailand,  especially non-urban areas.  Pace is at one's own.....including most services. 

[canopy]

 

8 hours ago, jerojero said:

Appointments with for Thai services don't seem to work.  Time and timeliness moves at different pace in Thailand,  especially non-urban areas.  Pace is at one's own.....including most services. 

 

You don't understand the problem. The people providing services are the ones giving the start date. They blow it off and do not bother to notify you and go into hiding even when they have absolutely nothing else going on and have no money. Their price, their schedule--remember that.

 

ex 1. I offered someone a high amount of money to do some gardening work for a day. I also offered to pick him up and bring him home. Simple and he agreed to do it the next morning. Next day the guy was nowhere to be found. I asked around and apparently he went into hiding rather than face me and was never serious. He was poor, had no job, and I could have used the extra cash.

 

ex2 & 3: I invited a builder to do some concrete work who I have known for a long time. He came out happy as can be even bringing a small gift and recommended his team start first thing the next morning and I told him I would pay above what he wanted. Next day no show and he refused to answer his phone. Found another promising builder for the same job. Again I asked him to name a price and time of his choosing. He wanted to start in a week and I agreed to that and his price and extended a bonus on top of that. I called him several times including the night before to make sure we were still on and he assured me we were. Despite touching bases with him the night before he never showed that next day. And he went to the extent of shutting his phone off all day long.

 

I totally agree with this topic: "Why Say It, If You Don't Mean It". It's a peculiarity of Thailand. I have never had problems like this in my country and I would just never, ever think of doing something like this to someone but it's commonplace here. My post is not a rant, just posting observations. There are also great, dependable workers in Thailand.

 

[Borzandy]

On 17/12/2016 at 4:26 PM, georgemandm said:

If you have been here for 14 years then you most know Thais are very lazy not all but some .

so her gets up to lazy to go and do your work, that's it , nothing To do with save face at all .

just a lazy man .

If you have been here for 14 years then you must know most of Thais are not able to do a proper job (but always say yes yes I can do), and when he discovered a farang is concerned, he didn't show up.

[yellowboat]

No matter where you go you need to select people in your life that do not aggravate you.  It is a journey especially in places like Thailand, where the best and the worst of the human condition exist. 

[georgemandm]

24 minutes ago, Borzandy said:

If you have been here for 14 years then you must know most of Thais are not able to do a proper job (but always say yes yes I can do), and when he discovered a farang is concerned, he didn't show up.

What are trying to tell, i know all the bs Thais do but would be here for 1 week writing about.

and that's not thai  bashing it is the truth.

[faraday]

Biggest problem I experience here, is the farangs that love to argue & moan.