Japan's Abe offers 'everlasting condolences' at Pearl Harbor

[webfact]

Japan's Abe offers 'everlasting condolences' at Pearl Harbor

By JOSH LEDERMAN and CALEB JONES

 

PEARL HARBOR, Hawaii (AP) — Under a warm Oahu sun, with the tranquil, teal waters of Pearl Harbor behind them, former enemies came together Tuesday to acknowledge the tremendous loss caused by the Japanese attack on U.S. military installations in Hawaii 75 years ago.

 

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and President Barack Obama made a historic pilgrimage to the site where the devastating surprise attack sent America marching into World War II.

 

"As the prime minister of Japan, I offer my sincere and everlasting condolences to the souls of those who lost their lives here, as well as to the spirits of all the brave men and women whose lives were taken by a war that commenced in this very place," Abe said.

 

He did not apologize for the attack but said "we must never repeat the horrors of war again."

 

Japanese leaders have visited Pearl Harbor before, but Abe was the first to go to the memorial constructed on the hallowed waters above the sunken USS Arizona.

 

There, he and Obama placed a pair of green-and-peach wreaths made of lilies and tossed purple flower petals into the water. The rusting wreckage of the ship where more than 1,000 American service members are entombed can be seen just under the water's surface.

 

Obama and Abe closed their eyes and stood silently for a few moments.

 

Afterward, they spoke at nearby Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam, where Obama called the harbor a sacred place and said that "even the deepest wounds of war can give way to friendship and lasting peace."

 

"As we lay a wreath or toss flowers into waters that still weep, we think of the more than 2,400 American patriots, fathers and husbands, wives and daughters, manning heaven's rails for all eternity," Obama said.

 

In likely the last time he will meet with a foreign leader as president, Obama said the two countries are bound by shared interests and common values and their alliance is "the cornerstone of peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific and a force for progress around the globe."

 

The two leaders greeted survivors in the crowd, shaking hands and hugging some of the men who fought in the Dec. 7, 1941, battle.

 

The visit is powerful proof that the former enemies have transcended the recriminatory impulses that weighed down relations after the war, Japan's government has said.

 

It's a bookend of sorts for the president, who nearly eight years ago invited Abe's predecessor to be the first leader he hosted at the White House.

 

For Abe, it's an act of symbolic reciprocity, coming six months after Obama became the first sitting U.S. president to visit Hiroshima in Japan, where the U.S. dropped an atomic bomb in hopes of ending the war it entered after Pearl Harbor.

 

"This visit, and the president's visit to Hiroshima earlier this year, would not have been possible eight years ago," said Daniel Kritenbrink, Obama's top Asia adviser in the White House. "That we are here today is the result of years of efforts at all levels of our government and societies, which has allowed us to jointly and directly deal with even the most sensitive aspects of our shared history."

 

In the years after Japan's attack, the U.S. incarcerated roughly 120,000 Japanese-Americans in internment camps before dropping atomic bombs in 1945 that killed some 140,000 people in Hiroshima and 70,000 in Nagasaki.

 

Obama did not apologize at Hiroshima in May, a visit that he and Abe used to emphasize their elusive aspirations for a nuclear-free future. Nor did Abe on Tuesday.

 

No apology needed, said 96-year-old Alfred Rodrigues, a U.S. Navy veteran who survived what President Franklin D. Roosevelt called a "date which will live in infamy."

 

"War is war," Rodrigues said as he looked at old photos of his military service. "They were doing what they were supposed to do, and we were doing what we were supposed to do."

 

Abe's visit is not without political risk given the Japanese people's long, emotional reckoning with their nation's aggression in the war. Though the history books have largely deemed Pearl Harbor a surprise attack, Japan's government insisted as recently as this month that it had intended to give the U.S. prior notice that it was declaring war and failed only because of "bureaucratic bungling."

 

"There's this sense of guilt, if you like, among Japanese, this 'Pearl Harbor syndrome,' that we did something very unfair," said Tamaki Tsukada, a minister in the Embassy of Japan in Washington. "I think the prime minister's visit will in a sense absolve that kind of complex that Japanese people have."

 

Since the war, the U.S. and Japan have built a powerful alliance that both sides say has grown during Obama's tenure, including strengthened military ties. Both Obama and Abe were driving forces behind the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a sweeping free trade deal now on hold due to staunch opposition by Congress and President-elect Donald Trump.

 

Moving beyond the painful legacy of the war has been easier for Japan and the U.S. than for Japan and its other former foes, such as South Korea and China. As Abe arrived in Hawaii, Beijing dismissed as "wishful thinking" the notion that Japan could "liquidate the history of World War II" by visiting Pearl Harbor.

 

"Japan can never turn this page over without reconciliation from China and other victimized countries in Asia," said Hua Chunying, a Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman.

___

Associated Press writers Brian Skoloff in Kailua, Hawaii, Mari Yamaguchi in Tokyo and Gillian Wong in Beijing contributed to this report.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-12-28

[Jingthing]

It was a beautiful speech.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the tone seemed more "apologetic" than the tone of Obama's speech at Hiroshima.

Abe must be very worried (and confused because he's so unpredictable) about what trump will soon bring. Totally understandable. Most of the world is. 

[Goingmad]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It was a beautiful speech.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the tone seemed more "apologetic" than the tone of Obama's speech at Hiroshima.

Abe must be very worried (and confused because he's so unpredictable) about what trump will soon bring. Totally understandable. Most of the world is. 

He did not Apologize for past Japanese Government.

What the World thinks does not matter !

Only Important what the victims of all the murder American Soldiers and their families think.

What the Japanese did on that day , was a War Crime. Period.

He should not have been aloud to be at Pearl, unless he agree to apologize; to every member of the families who died or that were injured. And paid money ; like a million per murdered victim.

" Lock him Up "

[deathmule]

1 hour ago, Goingmad said:

He did not Apologize for past Japanese Government.

What the World thinks does not matter !

Only Important what the victims of all the murder American Soldiers and their families think.

What the Japanese did on that day , was a War Crime. Period.

He should not have been aloud to be at Pearl, unless he agree to apologize; to every member of the families who died or that were injured. And paid money ; like a million per murdered victim.

" Lock him Up "

 

Let's pay the Japanese families for the 100 thousands dead people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki then.

 

Even though it wasn't illegal , it was unnecessary and highly immoral. Standard bombings and navy blockades would be enough for the Japanese to finally surrender (they had already sued for peace) but the US decided to kill 170.000-200.000 civilians just to show the world their capability and experiment in real war conditions. Which is important I agree but it's cruel too.

 

Let's pay Iraqi families too? I'm gonna go off topic but you get my point :)

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Goingmad said:

He did not Apologize for past Japanese Government.

What the World thinks does not matter !

Only Important what the victims of all the murder American Soldiers and their families think.

What the Japanese did on that day , was a War Crime. Period.

He should not have been aloud to be at Pearl, unless he agree to apologize; to every member of the families who died or that were injured. And paid money ; like a million per murdered victim.

" Lock him Up "

And I'm sure you support paying the USA Iraqis for the massive suffering they endured and are enduring because of the US invasion of their country.

[Dagnabbit]

It was a beautiful speech.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the tone seemed more "apologetic" than the tone of Obama's speech at Hiroshima.
Abe must be very worried (and confused because he's so unpredictable) about what trump will soon bring. Totally understandable. Most of the world is. 

As usual, JT tries to make every thread about his hatred for Trump.

Totally tiresome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Goingmad]

4 hours ago, deathmule said:

 

Let's pay the Japanese families for the 100 thousands dead people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki then.

 

Even though it wasn't illegal , it was unnecessary and highly immoral. Standard bombings and navy blockades would be enough for the Japanese to finally surrender (they had already sued for peace) but the US decided to kill 170.000-200.000 civilians just to show the world their capability and experiment in real war conditions. Which is important I agree but it's cruel too.

 

Let's pay Iraqi families too? I'm gonna go off topic but you get my point :)

 

So you think it is better that 100,000 + American soldier would die trying to take the islands of Japan, then the Japanese

who died, in a war that they start.

Do you hate Americas ?

[deathmule]

20 minutes ago, Goingmad said:

So you think it is better that 100,000 + American soldier would die trying to take the islands of Japan, then the Japanese

who died, in a war that they start.

Do you hate Americas ?

 

Difference is Japan targeted soldiers , the American Pacific fleet to be specific and the US targeted civilians.

 

2500 soldiers vs 200.000 civilians

 

100 times more dead.

 

As I mentioned above, 100.000+ wouldn't die in Japan. Conventional bombing and submarine blockades would be enough for the Japanese to finally surrender as they have sued for peace already. The atomic bomb played no role in the defeat of Japan from a purely military point of view and according to the Commander in Chief of the US Pacific Fleet, Chester W. Nimitz.

 

A Fleet Admiral called William Halsay Jr., also said this

 

Quote

The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment ... It was a mistake to ever drop it ... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it ...

 

From my point of view dropping an atomic bomb is the worst of the war crimes even though it's legal.

 

Everybody dies in its radius and people who survive die horribly from cancer or other radiation affiliated sicknesses 

 

I do not hate America

 

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by deathmule

[Credo]

7 hours ago, deathmule said:

 

Difference is Japan targeted soldiers , the American Pacific fleet to be specific and the US targeted civilians.

 

2500 soldiers vs 200.000 civilians

 

100 times more dead.

 

As I mentioned above, 100.000+ wouldn't die in Japan. Conventional bombing and submarine blockades would be enough for the Japanese to finally surrender as they have sued for peace already. The atomic bomb played no role in the defeat of Japan from a purely military point of view and according to the Commander in Chief of the US Pacific Fleet, Chester W. Nimitz.

 

A Fleet Admiral called William Halsay Jr., also said this

 

 

From my point of view dropping an atomic bomb is the worst of the war crimes even though it's legal.

 

Everybody dies in its radius and people who survive die horribly from cancer or other radiation affiliated sicknesses 

 

I do not hate America

 

 

A nice deflection from the visit Abe made to Pearl Harbor.   

 

The attack on Pearl Harbor was done by the Japanese.   It turned out to be a BIG mistake.   Somehow you turn that around to indicate that had the US death toll been higher, then the actions taken would have been justified.   

 

Every reasonable country will do whatever it can to protect itself.   

 

Now, go get the figures of the number of people that were killed by the Japanese and then try to figure out how many more would have died had there been a campaign of conventional bombing and a blockade.    Start with the POW's who were at death's doorstep when they were freed.   Do you think a couple more weeks would justify letting them remain in camps.   

 

Don't forget the mayhem going on in China and Korea.   

 

I don't think the Japanese were in a mood to sit around and sing Kumbaya.   

 

 

[Goingmad]

19 hours ago, deathmule said:

 

Difference is Japan targeted soldiers , the American Pacific fleet to be specific and the US targeted civilians.

 

2500 soldiers vs 200.000 civilians

 

100 times more dead.

 

As I mentioned above, 100.000+ wouldn't die in Japan. Conventional bombing and submarine blockades would be enough for the Japanese to finally surrender as they have sued for peace already. The atomic bomb played no role in the defeat of Japan from a purely military point of view and according to the Commander in Chief of the US Pacific Fleet, Chester W. Nimitz.

 

A Fleet Admiral called William Halsay Jr., also said this

 

 

From my point of view dropping an atomic bomb is the worst of the war crimes even though it's legal.

 

Everybody dies in its radius and people who survive die horribly from cancer or other radiation affiliated sicknesses 

 

I do not hate America

 

 

There were many non soldiers killed at Pearl.

Japan started it the USA finished it. There were military target in both Japanese city.Too bad about the women and children. But if the USA really wanted to kill innocent people. They would have dropped both bombs on Tokyo; and killed 2 million. 

[deathmule]

23 minutes ago, Goingmad said:

There were many non soldiers killed at Pearl.

Japan started it the USA finished it. There were military target in both Japanese city.Too bad about the women and children. But if the USA really wanted to kill innocent people. They would have dropped both bombs on Tokyo; and killed 2 million. 

 

12 hours ago, Credo said:

A nice deflection from the visit Abe made to Pearl Harbor.   

 

The attack on Pearl Harbor was done by the Japanese.   It turned out to be a BIG mistake.   Somehow you turn that around to indicate that had the US death toll been higher, then the actions taken would have been justified.   

 

Every reasonable country will do whatever it can to protect itself.   

 

Now, go get the figures of the number of people that were killed by the Japanese and then try to figure out how many more would have died had there been a campaign of conventional bombing and a blockade.    Start with the POW's who were at death's doorstep when they were freed.   Do you think a couple more weeks would justify letting them remain in camps.   

 

Don't forget the mayhem going on in China and Korea.   

 

I don't think the Japanese were in a mood to sit around and sing Kumbaya.   

 

 

 

Did you not see the quoted people's words or you just ignore them deliberately? I'll put them again here anyway

 

 

A Fleet Admiral called William Halsay Jr., also said this

 

Quote

The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment ... It was a mistake to ever drop it ... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it ...

 

Dwight. D. Eisenhower 

 

Quote

In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives.

 

Commander in Chief of the US Pacific fleet, Admiral Chester W. Nimitz

 

Quote

The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan.

 

Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman

 

Quote

The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons ... The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.

 

Major General, Curtis LeMay

 

Quote

The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.

 

I can find hundreds of these kind of statements but I think these are enough

 

By the way 60 civilians dead in Pearl Harbor out of 2500 dead. 2.4% of the casualties, compare it to Hiroshima-Nagasaki yourselves :)

Edited December 29, 2016 by deathmule

[Goingmad]

3 minutes ago, deathmule said:

 

 

Did you not see the quoted people's words or you just ignore them deliberately? I'll put them again here anyway

 

 

A Fleet Admiral called William Halsay Jr., also said this

 

 

Dwight. D. Eisenhower 

 

 

Commander in Chief of the US Pacific fleet, Admiral Chester W. Nimitz

 

 

Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman

 

 

Major General, Curtis LeMay

 

 

I can found hundreds of these kind of statements but I think these are enough

 

By the way 60 civilians dead in Pearl Harbor out of 2500 dead. 2.4% of the casualties, compare it to Hiroshima-Nagasaki yourselves :)

If a bully punches you in the face, and knocks you down. You get up off the ground and beat the bully until he starts to cry , mother. No one feels sorry for the bully, who started it all.

And 60 people Civilians did not deserve to die, at the hands of the Japanese bully.

I don't feel sorry for the two bombs. They should have bombed Tokyo.

The quotes, are from people who were not being shot at; or dying on Japanese beaches.

Ask any American soldier if they were happy about the bombs.

Ask any mother of father, who had sons or daughter killed in the war.

Ask any world leader if they thought Hitler would have used the Nuke bomb if the Germans had invented it ?

You owe your freedom to the men and women who were fighting and dying for your freedom.

Not sure how old you are; but your father and or Grandfather would be ashamed of you now; I think.

[deathmule]

2 minutes ago, Goingmad said:

If a bully punches you in the face, and knocks you down. You get up off the ground and beat the bully until he starts to cry , mother. No one feels sorry for the bully, who started it all.

And 60 people Civilians did not deserve to die, at the hands of the Japanese bully.

I don't feel sorry for the two bombs. They should have bombed Tokyo.

The quotes, are from people who were not being shot at; or dying on Japanese beaches.

Ask any American soldier if they were happy about the bombs.

Ask any mother of father, who had sons or daughter killed in the war.

Ask any world leader if they thought Hitler would have used the Nuke bomb if the Germans had invented it ?

You owe your freedom to the men and women who were fighting and dying for your freedom.

Not sure how old you are; but your father and or Grandfather would be ashamed of you now; I think.

 

The quotes are mostly from generals and admirals. You think these people never participated in a war and got their positions just like that? Naive.

 

Well neither 300.000+ civilians deserve to die or get cancer but I don't see you care much for innocent human lives, I see you care for American lives only. At least the people in power are smarter than you and realized that bombing Tokyo with a nuke would be the biggest war crime recorded in the history.

 

Any American soldier would be happy of course, it is in their conflict of interest. Doesn't mean it is ethical or the right thing to do as the several high level people I quoted above are saying.

 

Well, at least these mothers and fathers are alive. In Hiroshima and Nagasaki, whole families died.

 

The truth is, we don't know. It didn't happen. With ifs we can speculate a lot of stuff.

 

 

[Goingmad]

2 minutes ago, deathmule said:

 

The quotes are mostly from generals and admirals. You think these people never participated in a war and got their positions just like that? Naive.

 

Well neither 300.000+ civilians deserve to die or get cancer but I don't see you care much for innocent human lives, I see you care for American lives only. At least the people in power are smarter than you and realized that bombing Tokyo with a nuke would be the biggest war crime recorded in the history.

 

Any American soldier would be happy of course, it is in their conflict of interest. Doesn't mean it is ethical or the right thing to do as the several high level people I quoted above are saying.

 

Well, at least these mothers and fathers are alive. In Hiroshima and Nagasaki, whole families died.

 

The truth is, we don't know. It didn't happen. With ifs we can speculate a lot of stuff.

 

 

The Generals and Admirals were not shot at in WW2 by the Japanese.

Why do you care about this so much. Are you Japanese, or just love Sushi.

Tokyo would have been a War Crime ??  2 million or 300,000 , there is no difference.

No one has either called the Nuke bombing a War Crime. It ended a war.

Good for the American. I am have to say this.

Enjoy your Japanese food, or girl friend. Squeak,Squeak .

Nuke, Nuke , Nuke. USA USA USA .

[geriatrickid]

On 12/27/2016 at 11:13 PM, deathmule said:

 

Let's pay the Japanese families for the 100 thousands dead people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki then.

Even though it wasn't illegal , it was unnecessary and highly immoral. Standard bombings and navy blockades would be enough for the Japanese to finally surrender (they had already sued for peace) but the US decided to kill 170.000-200.000 civilians just to show the world their capability and experiment in real war conditions. Which is important I agree but it's cruel too.

Let's pay Iraqi families too? I'm gonna go off topic but you get my point :)

 

The Japanese nation as a whole was involved in the war effort. Every last one of them. You have no idea as to what the Japanese did or how it was an entire nation fixated upon conquest. The Japanese were prepared to resist until the end. This was a nation that  sent kamikazes and that taught its children to kill It was an absolute and complete military dictatorship.

 

 

On 12/27/2016 at 11:41 PM, ilostmypassword said:

And I'm sure you support paying the USA Iraqis for the massive suffering they endured and are enduring because of the US invasion of their country.

 

The Iraqis have reaped what they sowed. You conveniently forget the war on Iran with the use of poison gas, the  slaughter of kurds and the targeting of kurdish villages  with  poison gas and biological toxins and the massacre of  the marsh arabs. Your lovely Iraqis  profited and delighted in the  invasion and complete looting of Kuwait. And how quickly you forget the whole scale support of the Iraqi population for  various terror groups around the world. The Iraqis joyously supported  bombings and mayhem  elsewhere, so do not expect me to shed a tear for a nation that received a small taste of what they  gave to others

 

22 hours ago, deathmule said:

 

Difference is Japan targeted soldiers , the American Pacific fleet to be specific and the US targeted civilians.

2500 soldiers vs 200.000 civilians

100 times more dead.

As I mentioned above, 100.000+ wouldn't die in Japan. Conventional bombing and submarine blockades would be enough for the Japanese to finally surrender as they have sued for peace already. The atomic bomb played no role in the defeat of Japan from a purely military point of view and according to the Commander in Chief of the US Pacific Fleet, Chester W. Nimitz.

 

A Fleet Admiral called William Halsay Jr., also said this

From my point of view dropping an atomic bomb is the worst of the war crimes even though it's legal.

Everybody dies in its radius and people who survive die horribly from cancer or other radiation affiliated sicknesses 

 

I do not hate America

 

 

 

You are so wrong that it it is offensive. Japan targeted civilians. You are either absolutely ignorant or a racist. Which is it? During the  occupation of Manchuria, the Japanese engaged in biological warfare infecting population centers with cholera and typhoid. The Japanese engaged in gruesome live subject experiments on the Chinese that made  Mengele and the Nazis look like nice in comparison. Are you so clueless as to be unaware of the millions who died because of the Japanese targeting of non combatants and  their practice of slave labour? Ever hear of Korea and the forced enslavement and gang rapes of the  young girls and women? No, of course not, because it doesn't support your malicious position.  

 

My family endured the Japanese occupation of China. It left a mark. Many westerners were kept around because they were needed for the slave labour factories and food production as well as the hospitals. However, the toll it took as  they waited to be deported to concentration camps was awful. They cleared out most of the Australians in one day, dragging children by their limbs down the street. Did you know that the Japanese ,when they took Shanghai, were bayoneting Chinese children just for fun? That's the reality.  The US  demonstration of resolve at Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved lives, especially those of the POWs, the slave labourers and  the Chinese.  One of my great uncles liberated a US POW camp. He was the  doctor assigned to rehabilitate some of the POWs. He couldn't. By the time he finally opened up about it one Christmas dinner with another relative who had served in WWII, he was in his 80's. He was the nicest man, the most kind and gentle of souls, but his anger with the Japanese for the  torture and destruction they had left across the south pacific was very evident.  The Japanese used civilian slave labour to work the coal mines, to build the railways etc. and you have the  arrogance to say the Japanese didn't target civilians. Apparently, Koreans, Philippinos,  Burmese, Chinese etc. lives  have no value to you. Tens of millions of them died because of the Japanese , and you dismiss their loss.

 

The Japanese  refusal to apologize for their abuses, their war crimes and their cruelty in Asia, especially in China and Korea attests to the arrogance and contempt the Japanese  have for those who are not of their  "race".  Pearl Harbor is but one act of  treachery and deceit the Japanese were responsible for. Until Japan apologizes, it is a nation unworthy of respect.

Edited December 29, 2016 by geriatrickid
spelling

[KNJ]

Following the cessation of WW2, Japan, received aid, following that with the intervention of USA, driving the process, agreement and reparations were  made by Japan for all the countries it was in conflict with.

Since then Japan Overseas development has risen to some of, if not the highest in the world, including most of the  countries it was at conflict with.

Thus talk of further compensation is irrelevant, as it was agreed at state level in the past.

Whilst Japan will not ( at least currently ) publically apologise, neither will USA.

Trump talks of pulling troops from Japan, a splendid idea, it would be nice if the troops there could at least maintain social norms, pay their bills and find a stepping stone as a substitute for their bases in that part of the region, perhaps, the Philippines...... OH I forgot, they did not wait for a Trumped up Trump they kicked you out.