andyinkat

SIGH

[Reminds himself this is a Buddhism Forum and endeavours to maintain his composure and a noble silence]

Again, Falang Pan, in all honesty I'm finding your outpouring of honest frustration very educative.

I have a further response which I can't think how to word without it seeming offensive, but I really don't mean it to be so. I’m also going to have to completely contradict Darknight.

What I feel I'm 'hearing' from you is that you have a fixed notion of what is 'right' attitude and behaviour. You have acquired this fixed idea from the culture of your upbringing - the West. You seem to be measuring Thai colleagues/partners by how far they measure up to your relative values which you have brought from the West. You cannot change Thailand to your fixed view - if you want peace of mind you must either change yourself or settle in a place where your fixed view is shared by the host society. So really I'm suggesting that the heart of the matter is a philosophical problem.

Now you might want to protest and say that I'm missing the point. There is an absolute difference between 'mature' and 'childish' behaviour you say. Well when you put it like that of course there is, but let's examine it more deeply. As meadish_sweetball points out, is it really more mature to have to be 'right' or every trivial incident? Twenty years ago a great Buddhist teacher rocked my ego to its roots when he asked me rhetorically,

Is it better to be right - or to be happy?

Finally, I have a simple, open and honest question for all of us, and for which none of us on this forum by definition has the answer:

There are successful long-term happy Thai marriages - how does a Thai man in such a relationship 'handle' theis 'problem'?

Waste of bandwidth

Not at all LC - great entertainment. More!!

Falang Pan,

Thank you; I have been following your thread with great interest. when i relocate to a new environment i am always aware that there are some massive cultural differences, and I know that the onus is on me as the immigrant to listen, learn and adapt. You are helping me to get a handle on 'face'; such an unfamiliar concept in the West. I have a great deal to learn but I would say that the opposit eof 'face' is not truth, it's 'in your face'. And I think that emotional closeness can come when that cultural gap is narrowed, but as i say, I believe that the onus is on the immigrant, not the host.

totstar,

Religion doesn't cause trouble; abuse of religion does. Religion certainly is a 'powerful and intriguing thing' which is why it attracts the worst of people as well as the best.

By your logic you should condemn the power of speech - that's responsible for most of the trouble in the world. Maybe blame keyboards for all the rubbish typed and stuck up on forum boards.

My answer to the topic:

The three most powerful elements in the world are:

Desire

Aversion

Ignorance

They are interdependent but the last one is the most powerful.

This by the way is the Buddhist analysis; religious!

If we're talking abuse of human rights, I'd say the rest of the 'developed' world has caught up with Thailand.

Is it legal to tast for drugs in school? Is it 'legal' to gun down a couple of thousand alleged drugs traffickers? Course it is - 'all is fair in love and war', and Toxin has declared a War Against Drugs.

Is it legal to round up, torture and incarcarate indefinately without trial alleged Muslims? Course it is - 'all is fair in love and war', and Bush has declared a 'War on Terrorism'.

Human Rights, Freedom, Democracy - all notions that went out with Marxist-Leninism and other outdated ideals in the New World Order.

Hi Marquess,

Interesting question. Not sure why you're asking on the Buddhism board - I'm guessing you want an answer from a Buddhist perspective, but I can guarantee you it won't be the one you're hoping for!

The short answer is find a teacher.

This would probably mean seeking out a Tibetan siddhi.

Reckon on about a decade seeking to find such a teacher.

Next you'd need to convice him you're intentions are serious and that your mind is sufficiently prepared. Reckon on about 20 years of intensive spiritual practices.

Then you might be ready and he might give you instruction. Bank on about another 20 years in a Tibetan snow cave before you achieve a breakthough.

If you think I'm joking go read some biographies of highly realised masters.

The Buddha taught his disciples that if in the course of advanced meditation practice they were to tap into such pyschic abilities they should ignore them as they are likely to distract one from the path to enlightenment.

Or you could just do drugs.

Um, you might have stuck this on the wrong thread Martin!

Actually I've gotten a bit ahead of myself - I don't physically touch down until two weeks; mentally I'm already in LOS!

So you won't be too far away from Nong Khai - cool.

BTW i was in Boudha, the far end of Kathmandu from Thamel - tourist quarter - ugh!

My fare does include tax; one way though. i'll let you know how it goes. My first flight to Nepal was with Syrian Air - 'cos they were dirt cheap. Boy you get what you pay for - utter disasterous but amused me. My only criterion is getting to my destination as cheaply as possible.

So, about Jesus and Buddha.....

How different we all are! What gives the OP a sense of purpose in life is anathema to me - I've just turned 43 and I've 'semi-retired' to LOS to escape the workaholic ratrace of the West.

I have no funds and I work voluntarily in return for food and accommodation. That meets my needs; recreation for me doesn't involve the expenses of alcohol or golf.

When I no longer want to teach or 'work' I think I might enter a Sangha (wat/monastery); in the meantime if you want to know how I 'fill my time', look at my sig!

Of course that makes me the ultimate bore to many people but as I say, we're all different.

I was very impressed with the doc - very informative, balanced and not at all sensationalised.

The overriding message any viewer should take form it is, 'forchissakes, don't get involved with trafficking drugs!', and if you're a Brit don't get involved in ANYTHING illegal in Thailand.

But nobody here has yet picked up on the most cringemaking element of the doc - those bleedin' tourist visitors! 'He's a nice guy and I know he's innocent - he told me." Aaarrghh!!! I bet they 'do' the hill tribe villages too.

My B.A. degree was specifically in Biblical Studies and since then I've been primarily a student of Budhism as well as a lecturer in religious studies. This doesn't makeme an authority on anything at all but it does make me a little more aware of the scholarship that's been done than most folks.

And I can say that no 'serious' scholar has ever put forth such a hypothesis, simply because there is no evidence, nice idea though it is. Buddhist missionaries did reach Egypt long before Jesus' time but they made no significant impact. You can read a sensible account of all this in Stephen batchelor's 'The Awakening of the West' - an excellent study of the history of the encounter of Buddhism and the West.

In fact all of Jesus' innovative ideas can be understood within the context of the liberal branches of proto-Judaism in first century Palestine.

To me it makes sense to think that if the most highly realised/wise teachers in any culture at any time understand the deepest implications of compassion and selflessness then it stands to reason that their teachings are going to appear very similar. That is not evidence that they are borrowing/nicking ideas from each other, rather that they are all accessing the one true 'Source'.

There is also a theory that Mahayana Buddhism arose from an interface between the first generatino christians going East and early buddhism, but this is equally devoid of any evidence and betrays ignorance of early Indian Buddhism.

What I'm getting at here is that if there is a higher spiritual plane to be achieved and some souls are more advanced than others then it would be nigh on impossible for some of us to achieve that higher plane and we have to live another 100 life times to achieve it.

When I observe the human race the idea that there are souls of different maturity this seems to explain the mess the world is in. Why do some people feel very comfortable in christianity ond others seek a deeper meaning to life and why do some people not want to know about anything spiritual.

Spot on Joe!

I feel that Western society has grown to seriously misunderstand the term 'democracy' - indeed if you listen to the way Bush uses his favourite buzzwords 'freedom & democracy' you'd think they have no meaning left at all! 'Democracy' should involve equal right, equality of opportunity, but it's a nonsense to think we are all 'equal'. We are not all born with equal abilities, intelligence and as you recognise, spiritual aptitude.

The concept of karma and rebirth recognises that at birth we are 'dealt a hand' dependent on our previous deeds. Some of us might have earned a hand with a full house, some a pair of twos, others a nine-high. now, in this life, it's up to us to make that hand a winner.

But there's no need to be depressed that the chances of hitting 'enlightenment' in this lifetime are slim; forget the "I want it all and i want it now!" mentality; some of the most esteemed teachers I've met have said that if they improve their 'karmic account' by 2% in this life they'll be very satisfied. As long as you're heading in the right direction your next rebirth will be an improvement. No need to worry about the final goal.

In your case loving your family and looking out for others less fortunate will create the foundations for a more favourable rebirth in which your chances of meeting the right teacher are increased.

In his final sermon Lord Buddhas stated to his aide Ananda very clearly who his successor was to be - The Dhamma. He very deliberately did not appoint a human successor. Theravada has maintained this policy very strictly down the millennia and thus each abbott only has jurisdiction over his own wat/vihara and each sangha is autonomous, within the remit of the Sangharaja which is a more recent development.

Incidentally the role of the Pope in the Roman Catholic Church and Dalai Lama in Tibetan Buddhism is not analagous. His Holiness The Dalai Lama is the spiritual head of one of the four schools of Tibetan Buddhism (the Gelugpa). The spiritual head of the school in which I took refuge is the 18 year old Karmapa (whom my own teacher discovered) and the other two have their own spiritual heads.

In the couple of centuries before the Chinese invasion the Gelugpa had become the temporal power in Tibet thus the Dalai Lamas were the temporal leaders (i.e. rather like a president) but their temporal (political) and spiritual roles are very separate.

Today virtually all Tibetan Buddhists of all the schools recognise the Dalai Lama as the temporal head of Tibet and all recognise his spiritual authority - i.e. we all acknowledge his enlightened wisdom whether or not he is our spiritual head.

I do, yes. Actually it's just the red string, which I've worn around my neck for 5 years now and it's not worn out yet.

It was given to me by my teacher when I took refuge with him. I don't think the specific stone, piece of paper, metal or whatever that comprises the amulet is important in itself (so your wife is quite sensible). What is important is that it was given to you by an 'esteemed monk'.

I don't believe that my string or your amulet will literally prevent disaster in the sense of making the lightening strike the ground six feet away or making that speeding truck suddenly vanish - rather it can help you achieve the right state of mind if you were faced with a disaster - and the right state of mind in more mundane situations.

I sometimes find that when I am in a situation where I am about to react negatively, if I am mindful of my string/amulet and pause to reflect on it for a moment, it reminds me of my teacher, which in turn reminds me of the qualities of the Dharma and my mood changes. But only if I am mindful of it.

I suppose you could say that in Buddhism you make your own magic, but like most magicians you need a few props!

Hey I'm a penniless teacher about to relocate to LOS. ANY freebies warmly appreciated!

I'm afraid on this one I 'hit the bottle'.

I guess grey = mature = money= sexy in LOS.

I have no money therefore grey = clapped out, whereas with dyed hair I look 10 years younger. Sad, ain't I?

Since reading this thread ,I've been wondering, do your pubes also go grey ?

Maybe one of you old badgers can let me know 

They surely do. Those I don't dye which leaves my cover somewhat 'exposed' in certain contexts.

Of course there is an alternative to dying, and since the 'touchy' subject has arisen, what's the deal on shaving one's pubes in Thailand - normal practice or only for porn stars? Anyone know??

Kat,

I've found the quality of your posts and the sentiments expressed to be absolute top notch. Your points made and anaysis in this post above are most impressive. I would support and defend your position 100%. I would like here to offer some sort of explanation for an issue you criticise - not as a defence but merely as an observation as I see it. You write:

However, I think your question reveals a very telling and important moment in the constant comparision of Thai women and western women by what seems like every man that lives here.

I going to massively generalise here and skip the necessary caveats (please take them as read) and say that the vast majority of the men who visit Thailand regularly or choose to live here have a certain particular attitude in common:

They [we] are all to a greater or lesser extent somewhat disillusioned with our experiences of western women. I don't want to reignite any arguments about Western v. Thai women and I'm not going to mention my own bitter experiences, I'm simply pointing out that for whatever reasons most of us are not wholly neutral or balanced in our assessments of Western women. Many of us will see qualities in Thai women we perceive to be lacking in Western women and accentuate those differences in our minds, maybe romanticising our perceptions of Thai women along the way.

So, I think I'm asking you for a little understanding. We can't compare like with like - if we'd met the 'right' Western woman or were positive that we were yet to meet her we wouldn't be in Thailand! Whilst you are entirely right to defend Western women in your post, please accept that for many of us our limited experiences make it hard for us to be completely rationally balanced on the matter.

Camerata,

As a scholar I would say the cycle of history concept was 'inherited' from the pre-Buddhism proto-Hindu background; it is that ancient.

Each school of Buddhism and in particular many Mahayana sutras would reinterpret the vague idea in their own way and some sutras would add up a few mystical figures to arrive at a date, rather like some Christian millennial cults. Indeed that weird Japanese quasi-Buddhist cult that killed peole in Tokyo with Sarin I believe thought that the end of the last age was imminent. Most 'mainstream' Buddhist schools (certainly the Tibetan ones; I think some Japanese ones are different) don't put a precise date on it but imply we are a good few thousand years from the end of this aeon.

Joe,

I've been a student and seeker all my life. My profession was a religious philosopher and teacher, so I know where you're coming from. But can I say this - your description of your search and disillusionment reads remarkably like my search for the right woman! I've always meant well but boy have I experienced some disasters, leaving me an emotional wreck. I haven't given up on women; I haven't turned into a misogynist - I just haven't found the right one yet.

And so it is with your experience with religion - you haven't found the right teacher yet. Now, if I did turn into a misogynist and view all women with supreme suspicion I would no longer be open to seeing the 'right woman' when she does come into my life. So too, if you form a mental blockage about all religion or institutional religion, you too will not be open to recognise a true teacher when you meet him.

My formative experience was a year living in a Buddhist monastery. Amongst the personel there were all sorts, some right jerks included. But the rinpoche was truly inspiring - the one I gradualy came to view as enlightened. Maybe I was lucky, or maybe I made my own luck by not allowing my experience of a long line of disappointing teachers of various religions to close my mind.

It is important you don't get or feel pressurised, but at the same time I think it is good to keep seeking until you find. How long the search takes is not important; as you recognise the search in itself is valuable ('the journey is the goal') - but once you find the right teacher for you, you'll know - if you're open

Yeh Thabo, I'd also be interested in reading your real views as opposed to a rant.

Didn't your Lord tell you to 'consider the birds of the air'? Didn't you read his line about 'foxes have holes'? - what you worried about?

And really - how do you square your bible-bashing stuff with homosexuality?

Please tell.

I'm just two weeks away from relocating to LOS.

I'm all prepared and very excited but there is one hole in my plans - how to cater for my one and only vice ;

I'm an avid armchair football fan and my big move coincides with the start of the English football season.

I won't have a TV so I'll be dependent on catching games in bars. How easy is it to find a bar that shows the footie? Given the kick off times in England do games that kick off at 4 pm in England run over closing time? Are 8 pm kick-offs in England show at a reasonable time the next day (not live)?

Is it only easy to catch matches in Bangkok and big cities? Or do they show games in bars in the outback (my job's in Isaan)?

If the prognosis is really bad please break it to me here so I'm mentally prepared for when I rock up to LOS.

Thank you!

QUOTE (THABO @ Thu 2004-07-22, 03:20:54)

Jesus saves! 

In a bank, or in a sock under his bed ???

Yup, you got it Phazey;

Jesus saves, but Buddha gets the rebounds!

Oh and i meant to add:

Take a look at www.ajarn.com

- it's the main site for teaching English in Thailand - lots of good tips there.

Hi Bizz,

I'm a teacher with 18 years in the trade, now about to take up a position in LOS.

A good quality TEFL course wuith certificate would definitely stand you in very good stead for work in Thailand. You'd have the flexibility to pick and choose your place of employment and hours and probably would command better pay. The vast majority of jobs are in Bangkok though; if you were to settle in a rural area it might be more difficult but you'd still have the edge on unqualified wannabees.

I'd assume the course doesn't come cheap but if that's not a problem for you it would be money well spent.

I also don't know about whether enrolling your TGF smooths the way to getting her a visa but assuming all goes okay I'd imagine it would be money and time well invested for both of you. Good luck.

£1 million a month!!!!

Wonder what the 'punters' pay compared to short time in Bangkok?

And I bet the girls believed they were gonna be millionaires this time next year.

Oh the irony.

Good call DK - I'm ready to extend Lord Buddha's Noble Silence to our dear deluded brother here!