Lakegeneve

On 8/18/2019 at 2:04 PM, Lakegeneve said:

Current Progress at end of July

1) MRT Yellow line - 39.92%,

2) MRT Pink Line - 40.13%,

3) MRT Orange line 42.27%

Current Progress at end of August

1) MRT Yellow line - 41.77%,

2) MRT Pink Line - 42.15%,

3) MRT Orange line 44.43%

15 hours ago, Just Weird said:

"The BTSC does not run a frequency lower than 2.45 mins in peak hour..."

It does, I've timed them several times, including this afternoon. From Onnut into town at 3.40pm today, exactly one minute after the train I just missed pulled out the next one arrived.

You are expressing the mistake that I refer to in the post above. Try timing it from a point on the platform with exactly the same event of both trains. Arrival, departure, doors opening or closing, it doesn't really matter just as long it is the exactly same event at exactly the same point on the platform. (Unless there is a network delay which holds a train at a platform).

5 hours ago, Just Weird said:

The context and content of my comment does not need explanation, neither does it have to fit the explanation that he has allegedly explained once before!  

I can express what I see as the time between trains the way I experience it, particularly when, as far as most users are concerned, the time between trains is the time it takes for one to arrive after the next has left.  If you really want to wait until the arriving train leaves the platform just add on 30 seconds.

I can give you the operations managers number at BTSC (or Crossey can) and he'd be grateful to know this ("exactly one minute") as he would sack the driver immediately as well as order an urgent rectification of the wireless signalling problem allowing this to occur.

I'm sure you'll time a couple services less than the headway times I have specified, but the point is the overwhelming majority of timings will accord with those frequencies. The BTSC policy is that it is not safe to do anything less than 2:10-2:20 in their view. That doesn't mean it may not change in future years.....

4 hours ago, Just Weird said:

 

I think I know what he meant about HK and Singapore, I was simply pointing out the nonsense of his emphasis on "nowhere in the world doing that..." and then following it up with two countries that do exactly that!

Thanks.

Honestly, this is Just Weird!

All are welcome to correct, challenge or seek clarification and granted that expression can always be more clear. However, please, please, please at least quote correctly and get your cities correct! Otherwise, it seems just weird to reply?

What I wrote: "No where in the world runs less than a 90 sec frequency and that is only done in Hong Kong and Shanghai. You cannot really run a metro line safely less than 90secs even with high frequency signalling." The context of that statement was in reply to, "Currently trains arrive within a minute or two of each other"

What you quoted by me was; "nowhere in the world doing that..." then somehow you confused Singapore and Shanghai, "HK and Singapore,"

Anyway, the point about frequency or headway that you need to time it from the same objective point and the same event. Eg. stand at the front of the train and once the train comes to a stop time it from when the doors to when the next train train arrives, stops and opens it doors. Or just when the train comes to a stop. Point is, it needs to be the same point on the platform and the same event from one service to the next.

Many will rely on a perceived experience rather than an actual, object timing. This is where many make the mistake of thinking trains arrive quicker than they do. Most people use an experiential time from when one leaves the platform to when they see the next train arriving thus mistaking the timing and also missing the dwell time at the platform for unloading & loading. If you did this in Hong Kong in peak hour, the next train would literally seem to arrive 20-30 secs after the previous one has departed!

On 8/29/2019 at 8:57 AM, Searat7 said:

The real shame is with the MRT main line which is still operating the same 3 car trains since it opened in August 2004. They should combine an order with BTS as the carriages used are nearly identical. The MRT needs 5 car trains too. 

The MRT order 35 , 3 car Siemens sets in Sept 2017 for the Blue Line extension which was originally scheduled to open by the end of 2016!

Currently, 11 of those sets have been delivered and are operational. Another 5-6 should be operational by the end of Sept when the Blue line extension Phase 1 opens to Lak Song. The remaining rolling stock is due to be delivered by March next year when the full extension opens (Tao Poon to Tha Phra section). Likewise, BEM should have ordered 4 car sets but they only order 3 car sets. BEM also has a 4 min frequency in peak hour.

It is worth remembering that then BMCL (BEM) was first going to order new rolling stick on 2008 but had to defer an order due to debt restructuring issues. A subsequent order in 2011 was also delayed. Then BMCL (BEM) won the tender to run the MRT Purple line so in Nov 2013 they order 21 3 car sets for that line. And yet still no new order for the Blue line even though daily pax numbers had grown to 270k by 2015 and 360k by 2017 after the Purple line opened. 

On 6/9/2019 at 4:12 PM, Lakegeneve said:

The 10km ext from Rangsit to Thammasat Uni was approved in 2017 and was due to be tendered late last year so hopefully this will be done in the post election period. The 11km 1st part of the southern ext from Bang Sue to Hua lumphong was approved a few years ago. However, this will have to wait while the designs for the Eastern HSR line was finalised as the first section will be from DMK to Phaya Thai to link with the ARL. 

I've mentioned this a few times as a real concern.

Years ago after the Dark Red line tender I was critical that the SRT did not design and tender an integrated super structure viaduct to cater for;

1) SRT Dark Red line,

2) ARL ext to DMK (as it then was),

3) High Speed lines to North & NE (approved back in 2010 before the tender was done).

Thus, when work finally started after a 2 year contract delay the viaduct being built is only for SRT Dark Red line operations - and perhaps some additional narrow gauge services. This meant that two new viaducts would be built for the ARL & HSR lines with an additional station(s) at DMK!

The ARL ext was due to be tendered in 2013 but the Yingluch govt delayed it and then the May 2014 coup caused another 2 year delay. Subsequently, the idea came to include the ARL ext into the Eastern HSR line which has now been contracted and is subject to final design before construction starts early next year.

Read this article, https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30375733 

Quote

The two pending contracts are related to the construction of railroad in the Bang Sue-Don Muang section, said the minister. “This section is tricky, since parts of the area are overlapping with another high-speed rail project that links three airports – Don Mueang, Suvarnabhumi, and U-tapao.”

Thus, now we have the Eastern HSR line which will be built with a new viaduct and thereafter the real possibility that the NE HSR line will also require a separate viaduct along a right of way which is narrow in parts! Let's hope they at least only build 1 additional new station at DMK! 

It is fundamentally ill-conceived and flawed planning!

8 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Converting Sapan Taksin to dual track will not be easy with the limited space available. Will they have to completely demolish the existing station and raise the line above the highway bridge?

This will take years to complete and be a major disruption for Silom line.

 

He admitted that there is a restriction on the Silom Line due to the bottleneck at Taksin station, where trains are required to share a single section of track.

However, he said the company is in the process of getting permission from the Rural Highway Department and the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment to expand the section to dual tracks.

Source: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/bts-adds-27-more-trains-to-serve-bangkok-commuters

After the BMA, announced 4 years ago that they would demolish the station within 12 months and build a 700m pedestrian link to Surasak, there was some political pressure applied to The Rural Highways Dept who are responsible for the bridge. Thereafter, 2 years ago it was agreed that a new wider bridge span would be built on the south side to accommodate enough space and that the north span would be widened. The current issue and delay appears to be one of funding as Highways Dept says BMA should pay for it. However, I haven't seen an update for many months.

There is a render that I posted in another TV thread at the time but I doubt that I can find that thread. Searchable under BKK news.....

On 8/18/2019 at 4:06 PM, blackcab said:

Thank you for that, I do appreciate it. The only thing with Rama 4 is that there is a lot of development there right now. The One is going to provide office space for 50,000 workers alone, plus a 1,200 capacity hotel and all the other usual retail outlets, etc.

 

It will of course be some time before it is finished and even then the office space might not run at capacity.

 

It's a lot of people in one location though.

I should correct something in my post, it should obviously be soi 40 NOT soi 38. (I was reflecting about the old the food stalls at 38 when I posted this so my stomach overpowered my brain!)

The One is a huge project and has taken a long time to get to this early construction stage given how many years ago the Night market was demolished. However, that project is already serviced by MRT Lumpini station so there still doesn't seem to be a compelling need to duplicate this section of Rama 4 with another mass transit line. (If The One developers are smart they will be building an underground direct link to Lumpini station). An extended BRT running along Sathon and Wireless rd however would provide good connections to both BTS lines for those at The One. The area is proximate to 3 mass transit lines so I'd still be suggesting that other areas of BKK deserve priority first. 

Let's see if the MRTA does indeed take back the Grey line and if they get around to tendering it in the next 2 years first. 

16 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Hi LG,

 

With all mass transit or infrastructure projects we always see progress reports like that - super accurate two decimal point percentages.  39.92%.  40.13% etc.

I've always been intrigued how they are calculated.  Is it just physical construction, or does it include signalling and testing?  Basically what is it a percentage of and how is it calculated?

It's the total overall construction progress of the civil works - stations, tunnels or viaduct, any pedestrian links and other related construction. Signalling & electrical installation is commonly done afterwards though some can be done at the same time. You'll note that for the previous update there was a % for this for the Blue line.

As an example, here is the MRTA update of all the various contracts of the Orange line up to the end of July. The 42.27% is thus, the overall figure. 

Contract 1 is for 6.29km underground and 4 underground stations from Thai Cultural Centre interchange station to Rankhamhaeng 12 station.

Contract 2 is for 3.44km underground and 4 underground stations from Ramkhamheang 12 station to Hua Mark station.

Contract 3 is for 4.04km underground and 3 underground stations from Hua Mark station to Klong Ban Ma station.

Contract 4 is 8.8km and 7 elevated stations from Klong Ban Ma to Suwinthawong terminus station

On 8/17/2019 at 2:38 PM, blackcab said:

@Lakegeneve Is there any clarity regarding how the grey line will get from Thong Lo to Rama 4 via Sukhumvit 38?

 

Will it mean demolishing properties at the start of Sukhumvit 38 and also demolishing a path between the end of Sukhumvit 38 and Rama 4?

I wrote this on the old thread back on 31 July 2017 in reply to another query;

Quote

 

The current status of the Grey line is that it is still a proposed BMA line which is still being designed and needs an updated EIA. There have been many changes with the line no longer going to Chong Nongsi. The issue of beyond Thonglor. The problem of passing over the BTS line at Thonglor was a major factor in shortening the line with a tunnel option not realistically considered. The BMA is trying to acquire some land near the Kaset intersection for a depot and has ongoing negotiations with EXAT for site and right of way access along the expressway. Once that is done a new EIA will be completed.

 

The hype of the then BMA Gov back in 2013 saying that it would be done in 2-3 yrs of course came to nothing. The BMA and MOT are looking at it being a privately funded line similar to the Pink and Yellow lines. The BMA has funded 60m baht for a study of Phase 2 (along Rama 4 and Rama3).

 

The BMA has also had a few other line issues with the MRTA trying to offload the BTS exts to the BMA, the privately funded Gold line and residents wanting the Bang Wah to Taling Chan ext built. I've listed it as possible for tender in 2018/19, 2019 seems more realistic. My thoughts are that the BMA should just focus on and build the section from Wacharaphol (Pink Line) to Rama 9 (Orange line) first whilst working out what to do with the Thonglor/Suk soi 38 section - which should probably go underground and then continue to Rama 4 where it could then run elevated until Lumpini/Sathon rd.

 

Lastly, I don't agree with the Phase 2 of this line along Rama 3 and Ratchadapisek ring rd to link with the Blue Line at Tha Phra (essentially replacing the BRT line). It would be better to extend the Blue line south from Tha Phra or build another heavy rail line for this Ratchada/Rama 3 section. (A reminder that one of the original 3 BTS extensions was going to be from Chong Nongsi down Narathiwat rd and then along Rama 3).

 

BMA (or MRTA) Grey Line

The Grey line is a proposed 15km, 16.3km monorail line running from Ram Inthra to Thong Lor BTS and is part of the current M-Map2 Master plan. Back in late 2011, the Yingluck govt said that it was not going to build the Grey or Light Blue lines as they were not priorities. BMA was suggested to do the line. In mid 2013 the BMA said that they would tender the line as  priority by early 2014 and that it would be operational in early 2018. However, the BMA ran into some problems with EXAT as it owns the right of way along the Chalongrat Expressway/Pradit Monutham rd corridor. The location of finding land for a depot was a major problem. Thong lor residents also objected to the route (not wanting public transport 'riff raff' passing through their area no doubt!).

The BMA also came up with the idea to extend the Grey line along Rama 4 rd and then along Rama 3 rd/Ratchadapisek rd to essentially replace the BRT which wasn't generating the expected pax numbers (due to a lack of a dedicated bus lane the whole route). It would also provide a good link to the BTS Silom line, SRT Dark Red line & MRT Blue line at Tha Phra. However, the section between Thong Lor BTS and Rama 4 (the red dotted line in the map) provide major engineering difficulties unless the line was underground, which it was not proposed to be. Thus, it was though easier to just run it from the end of Rama 4 rd and Phrakanong BTS station. (Note: for those that remember one of the 3 original proposed BTS exts was going to be from Chong Nonsi station south to Rama 3 and west along Rama 3....the current BRT route).

Some suggested basic plans were proposed for running the line down soi 38 but they are not very realistic as soi 38 is too narrow for the whole section to Rama4;

After some problems with the EIA in 2015/16 the BMA let progress slide. In mid 2018, the BMA gov said that they were going to revive the project but then a few months later the MRTA Gov said that the MRTA should do it as it would provide good connections with the MRT Pink, Yellow and Brown lines - which is very true. The MRTA could also use their experience of working with EXAT on the Brown line. (Note: EXAT is currently doing integrated design for the Brown line and N% Expressway along the Kaset-Namawing rd section). 

Summary

Once the Brown line is designed and tendered next year, I think that the MRTA will progress the Grey line and look to tender it in 2021/22. However, only the original 16km section from Rama Inhtra to Thong Lor as it provides a good N-S link with the 3 monorail lines.

For the remaining Phase 2 and Phase 3 proposals, I really think that the MRTA Blue line should just be extended south from Tha Phra along Ratchadapisek, over the river and along Rama 3 to terminate at Narithiwat rd. The BRT line should be kept but extended along Sathon rd and up Wirelss rd to Sukhumvit rd to link with the BTS there. (Or dispense with the BRT and run the Blue line up to terminate at Chong Nongsi.

I really don't believe that a new line along Rama 4 should be a priority until decades later given the proximity of the parallel BTS Suk line and the fact that the MRT Blue line runs along over half of Rama 4. There are more pressing areas in need of mass transit first. 

7 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Thank you again. I did not make the link between Oct 2020 and DMK. It will be a godsend when it opens to get into town. 

Just remember that it won't be opening into town! The first section is from DMK to the new Bang Sue Terminal, you'll then need to change to the MRT if you want to go into town.

Next section will be 10kms north DMK to Thammasat Uni and south Bang Sue to Hualumphong. As mentioned above, eventually the SRT Dark Red Line will be some 87km long running from Thammassat Uni to Mahachai (Samut Sakhon). Probably completed in the 2030s....

The Eastern HSR line (it will now be the ARL extension and take over the ARL) will be built from DMK to Phayathai (1st stage) before the SRT gets around to building the section south of Bang Sue. That means a whole new viaduct running along side the SRT Dark Red line and new station at DMK.

1 minute ago, emptypockets said:

Thanks for the info - I missed the previous post. Any idea of the actual go live date?

"October 2020 is the current date" but with the two caveats in the 2nd sentence. It will change....

On 6/9/2019 at 4:12 PM, Lakegeneve said:

October 2020 is the current date (it was previously 1st quarter 2021). However, that depends on two external factors; delivery of the rolling stock which the SRT ordered late and completion of the new Bang Sue Terminal.

 

When construction finally commenced in mid 2013 after a 2.5 yr contractual delay, it was said that it would be open by late 2016. The delay is huge in that context. Not to forget that the 15km SRT Light Red line was built from in less than 3 yrs (Jan 2010 to Sept 2012). 

 

The 10km ext from Rangsit to Thammasat Uni was approved in 2017 and was due to be tendered late last year so hopefully this will be done in the post election period. The 11km 1st part of the southern ext from Bang Sue to Hua lumphong was approved a few years ago. However, this will have to wait while the designs for the Eastern HSR line was finalised as the first section will be from DMK to Phaya Thai to link with the ARL. 

 

The whole SRT Dark Red line will eventually be some 87kms long when completed some time next century!

^ Again, quite often the info you might be seeking is in the thread a few pages back.....

Yes, AOT and SRT are building a pedestrian link on the northern side of the station which will go through the car park on the south side of T2.

2 hours ago, dantilley said:

Found this:

 

http://www.mappery.com/map-of/Bangkok-Rail-Transit-Network-Map

 

Are those the real station names?! "Happy Land" for example? Also they have the old name of "Seri Centre" which changed to be Paradise Park a few years ago.

This was the first real attempt at drawing a future network map done by Khun Zoowatch (a scientist and rail enthusiast) back in 04/05. He stopped updating it about 08/09 given the constant delays in new routes being tendered. Thus, a lot of station names were inserted as place names as exact plans were not advanced

Honestly, there are already a bunch of maps posted on this thread and all one needs to do is to look back a few pages.....there are literally 4 maps posted 5 pages back!

On 8/5/2019 at 1:21 PM, Lakegeneve said:

BTS currently has 19 of the new 22 sets of Siemans Inspiro trains delivered (16 operational) but only 3 of the 24 Changchun sets.

The Info was in posts above.

7 hours ago, CLW said:

New BTS Trains very nice. From which manufacturer they are? 

New MRT trains also running now at Blue Line. What manufacturer is this? Why they didn't order or modify the new trains like this already?

For the MRT also Siemans Inspiro , "Of the 35 new trains that BEM has ordered, 9 have been delivered, 10 more will arrive by Sept and the last 16 by March 2020." 

1 hour ago, wreckingcountry said:

Today was supposed to be the extension opening from Mochit station to central Lat phrao mall! Escalator working that goes to level but lot of staff stood around saying “mai “


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

From 3pm as previously posted, you are a little early. Of course, 3pm could end up being 4pm or 5pm....... depends how long the opening ceremony with the PM lasts if its on time.

On 7/19/2019 at 3:24 PM, Lakegeneve said:

MRTA Governor yesterday announced that the MRT Blue Line will commence limited shuttle services from 29 July only from 10 am - 4pm with shuttle operations (No Through Service) at a 8 min headway
Free until 28 Sept. when full operations should begin.

From 13 August the MRT Blue Line ext free shuttle service operation period will be extended from 7am to 9pm operations basically more than doubling the current 6hrs.

On 8/4/2019 at 12:17 PM, Crossy said:

N9 is ready for opening on Friday the 9th August.

I hear that the opening is timed for 3pm, but that it might be a little earlier once they clear up the Opening Ceremony by PM Prayuth at 12pm.

Good to see that everything was finished a little earlier Crossy.

BTS currently has 19 of the new 22 sets of Siemans Inspiro trains delivered (16 operational) but only 3 of the 24 Changchun sets.