Lakegeneve

16 hours ago, burner2014 said:

Where can I follow the South Terminal progress? Any ETA on this?

South Terminal is what exactly? Of the Airport?

Yes, it is T3 of the Airport (essentially a reverse duplicate of the current terminal) which won't start construction for many years. Wait for T2 to open first.

This map should give you a clear idea of where the line is proposed to run (as well as the list of stations in my above post).........you can check earlier pages in the thread for other maps and info....

On 6/7/2019 at 6:12 PM, Lakegeneve said:

When the BTS ext from On Nut to Bearing opened in August 2011 (2 years late due to a BMA official being scared to issue the S&E tender), provision was made for a spur line to run down Bang Na-Trat rd to the airport. You'll see the viaduct widen after Udom Suk and a little before the intersection - actually right at suk soi 103/4 where the huge block of land is for the future "largest shopping center in asia" and just adjacent where the new Eastern Bus terminal will be located.

 

This spur line was never part of the original BTS expansion plans nor the original M-Map Master plan, but was added as an idea by the BMA around 2006/7 to cater for the future T3 at the airport and provide an alternate route for the then yet to be built ARL. M-Map has since been updated in 2017, but still does not include this line.

 

Subsequently, Samak Prakan City Hall proposed to OTP in MOT that it be a light rail line. However, they also had the idea 3 years ago to build a LRL providing a link from City Hall up Srinakarin rd to Bang NaTrat then east so they need to resolve these two ideas. Currently, we need a bunch of lines and exts (Purple South, Blue west, Orange west, Brown line, BTS Silom west est) to progress to tendering before this line is resolved.

 

Someone asked me a few years in the previous thread when this will be built. At the time, I suggest not until after 2023-2025 at the earliest but now the latter date is more plausible. The delays with construction of T2 and with T3 not even being approved also delay this line as it will essentially run to T3 and the APM that will be built linking the terminals. That's not to say a line along the Bang Na - Trat corridor is not currently needed, only that there are other pieces of the network that need to be in place first.

Quote

I am still trying to follow when they start building the  Light Rail Train system's Bangna - Suvarnabhumi Airport line.

Burner, this was my previous reply to you 2 years ago (page 2 of this thread).

Given delays to other projects & extensions (SRT red lines, MRT Orange line west, MRT Purple Line south, MRT Brown lines, the BMA Grey line - which may revert back to the MRTA, the 3 BTS exts) then it is very safe to say that you can add 3-5 years on my previous timeframe. Realistically, it most likely will be part of the post 2029 plans. Also, remember that once the ARL is taken over by the Eastern HSR line the consortium will not want any other mass transit link to compete with them. One of the perils of the private concessionaire model as we have seen with BEM opposing the small extension of the MRT Yellow line to Ratchayothin junction.

The BMA did commission a study of the project which began in June and is expected to take 18months to 2 years to complete. Let's see how that progresses. It might be that the MRTA ends up taking over the project in the future?

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The project will be divided into two phases. The first phase will see 12 stations built between Bang Na intersection and Thana City Housing Estates -- namely Bang Na, Prapha Montri, Bang Na-Trat 17, Bang Na-Trat 25, Wat Sri Iam, Prem Ruethai, Bang Na Km 6, Bang Kaew, Kanchanaphisek, Wat Salud, King Kaew and Thana City stations. The second phase will connect Thana City with Krirk University and Suvarnabhumi airport, Mr Sakoltee said.

^ I neglected to include the map of the next batch of SRT Red line extensions.

Just to emphasis how unfortunate the delay in issuing the tenders is, the 9km extension to Thammasat Uni will all be at grade level (except for the first few hundreds meters from Rangsit station which is already built). Some 2-3km of this has already been built so essentially all that is needed is to finalise the remaining 6-7km and install the E&S systems.

This could easily be completed in 12 months if this specific ext was tendered now.

The 15km Salaya ext is also all at grade and could easily be completed within 2 years. Both of these should be funded by the govt and separated from the delayed PPP tender process. 

On 8/11/2021 at 3:45 PM, millymoopoo said:

Just found an excellent map of all lines in Bangkok.

Better than official maps.

Hope it helps.

You may need to copy and paste.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=17wcuEbeg01fc5ODY_SjzbjRt1aQ&ll=13.925582578685384%2C100.65505326896618&z=12

If you wish to see the whole future network as currently planned check the map down the middle on this page or other maps at the start of the thread.....

On 2/16/2021 at 11:49 AM, Lakegeneve said:

The Department of Railways has announced that finally the PPP tenders for the next batch of extensions to the soon to be opened SRT Dark Red and SRT Light Red lines will be out in April. The SRT planned these 2 lines back in 2005.......The Dark Red line will be 87kms when it is finally completed (sometime in 2050 at the current construction rate!)

History
It is important to note that that 2 of these extensions (Dark Red to Tham Uni & south ext to Hua lumphong) were approved in 2016. Tenders were scheduled for Sept 2018 but then delayed until later in 2019. Afterwards, in July 2019 the Cabinet referred all extensions for a review with a view to do PPP tenders in early 2020 - much to the annoyance of the SRT.

SRT Light Red eastern ext to Hua Mark
I've mentioned this numerous time but the extension of the SRT Light Red line from Bang Sue to Hua Mark along the current ARL route was always a stupid plan as it duplicates the Cityline service and means building a whole new viaduct and adjacent stations to the ARL stations. However, given the recent policy change for the ARL become a part of the Eastern HSR line it may have some merit, but it stills means duplication of services.

SRT Light Red Sriraj/Thonburi Spur line
The short spur line between Taling Chan and Thonburi/Sriraj station (Kanchanaburi services depart from here) is also stupid. The original plan 10-15 years ago was for the MRT Orange line to run along this route and terminate at Taling Chan. However, the SRT objected as they didn't want to 'lose' control of the corridor so this section was swapped from Orange to Light Red. It is still unclear how the SRT plans to operate the Spur line but most likely it will be Taling Chan to Sriraj only. 

The priority should be to build following exts first - hopefully by 2024:
1) 10km ext Rangsit to Thammasat Uni - approved in 2016 and some of which is built north of Rangsit,
2) Bang Sue to Hua Lumphong - approved in 2016 (requires a belowground section past the palace)
3) Taling Chan to Salaya - was also to be tendered in 2018

 

Unfortunately, these tenders have all been delayed until late Dec or more likely early 2022. This is especially annoying when 2 of these exts have been approved since 2016 and ideally construction would have commenced prior to the much delayed opening (or reopening) of both SRT Red lines.

This recent delay is also a direct consequence of govt policy going back to the coup. The coup govt undertook reviews in last 2014 for all new lines which took until 2016 when the 2 approvals were granted. However, by the time the govt got around to looking to tender the lines there was a huge backlog of infrastructure projects and the state budget was constrained. Subsequently, in 2019 the govt decided to canvass the possibility of progressing as PPP projects (refer to History in the above post)

Then the PPP tenders scheduled for early 2020 were delayed due to Covid. Now we have a situation where the govt has committed to a PPP framework in the current context where mass transit numbers are at an all time low and business confidence is plummeting. What company is going to bid for a PPP tender in this current environment...nada!

Realistically I don't see these doing ahead before mid 2022. This means we've had not only delays from the Sept 2018 tender dates for projects approved in 2016 but essentially it will be over 20 years from when these lines were first planned before these exts are done. It is complete incompetence by decision makers.

My 2050 joke in the above post appears unfortunately very realistic!

On 1/24/2021 at 7:31 AM, Lakegeneve said:

Construction progress as at 31 December:

1) MRT Orange Line: 74.37%

2) MRT Pink Line: 70.32%

3) MRT Yellow Line: 73.26%

 

BTS Silom line S4 update: The BMA has decided to rename the station to Saint Louis (from Suksa Wittaya) given the hospital, school & church nearby. Still expect to open by the end of March.

I obviously haven't been posting regular construction progress updates...

Construction progress as at 31 July:

1) MRT Orange Line: 84.44%

2) MRT Pink Line: 80.53%

3) MRT Yellow Line: 85.53%

Still expecting the MRT Brown line and MRT Purple line southern exts (delayed from March and August 2020 before that) to be tendered before the end of the year. I've promised for over 6 months now to do a comprehensive update. Hopefully, this week that will be done. I'll also include some info on the post 2029 plans for new lines.

On 2/12/2021 at 2:57 PM, Lakegeneve said:

BSR announced last October that both the MRT Pink line (Minburi - PK 30 to Govt Complex - PK12) and MRT Yellow line (Y23 to Y17) would partially open in October 2021 with both lines then opening in full un June 2022. However, more recently there has been the suggestion that rolling stock delivery and COVID related delays may push this back.

 

Let's see what the situation is by June.

^The BSR deferred these openings to Dec and more recently March 2022. Let's see if that happens.

The 1st section (southern section) of the MRT Yellow line (as explained above) is more likely to open first before the 1st section of the MRT Pink line as construction at that end is more advanced. Rolling stock deliveries are still delayed.

However, if anyone wants to see testing of the monorails just make your way to Minburi adjacent to the Minburi MRT Orange Line station (U/C) and you can usually see rolling stock being tested on the very short section (300m) out of the MRT Pink line depot.

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

Here you go.

That was quick! Well done.

That whole section is now blocked off to build the interchange area. 

On 3/23/2021 at 10:30 AM, FarangryBirds said:

Now that the Green and Blue lines have both completed their extensions (for now). Have both lines taken delivery of all the extra trains they put in for?

On 3/24/2021 at 11:38 AM, Lakegeneve said:

Yes, all delivered for both.

 

Also, all sets delivered for the SRT Dark & Light Red lines. The only outstanding orders are the monorail rolling stock for the MRT Pink and MRT Yellow lines. Deliveries are behind schedule.

 

The next batch of rolling stock will be for the MRT Orange line in a couple of years once an operator is awarded - which will probably be related to who wins the MRT Orange line western extension tender.

One thing I neglected to mention is that for the MRT Purple line even though BEM ordered the Japanese rolling stock as the operator of the line, the MRTA ended up purchasing the trains as BEM didn't have enough money to do so esp with lower than expected pax rates - given the missing link for the 1st year! (Even though the section from Bang Sue to Taopoon was part of the Purple line contract)

Thus, MRTA owns the Purple line rolling stock and leases it to BEM. It will be interesting to see what happens with the MRT Purple line southern ext operator tender comes out - tender is about to be issued for construction. 

On 3/29/2021 at 12:32 AM, josephbloggs said:

I used to get off at this station for work a couple of years ago.  The station is much bigger than others and always had a (I assume) life size model of two trains coming out of tunnels - presumably orange line trains.  This was just in an otherwise oversized hall. So definitely well planned for many years.

Yes, it has an interchange level between the concourse and platform levels as it was always planned as an interchange station. Of course built before the Orange line was extended from Ram to Miniburi (absorbing the previous MRT Brown line) and before the western alignment was changed from Victory and Ratchatewi rd to Pratunam and Phetchaburi rd. 

Some advanced design and planning there which is unusual in the BKK mass transit context

"Life size model" might be a stretch but I do have a picture somewhere of the outline of the tunnel rings with train façade that were on the eastern wall of that level. See if I can track it down.

On 3/26/2021 at 5:25 AM, digbeth said:

From the Orange Line's facebook updates, they are often celebrating tunnel boring machines breaking into stations, so looks like tunneling is still going on together with station work, Stations from the blue line towards Ramkhamhaeng 12 is more done, so maybe east of Ramkhamhang is where the boring is still going on

Yes updates there. ALso on the MRTA website, https://www.mrta.co.th/en/news/information/tbm2-breaks-through-ramkhamhaeng-12-station/

and the general MRTA FB page, eg this one from 9 March for TBM 3 breaking through to Ram station from Hua Mark station,  https://www.facebook.com/MRTA.PR/photos/pcb.2741706659379384/2741705356046181/

But as digbeth says, the MRTA Ornage line FB page is the best for constant updates.

On 3/27/2021 at 8:42 AM, lujanit said:

Where in Taling Chan is the station?  Is it going to use the existing SRT station?  There has been some work going on however no new station.  Two elevated U-turns have been built.  I thought these were feeders into the Chauchuk expressway.

The existing new Taling Chan station was completed in mid 2012 as part of the SRT Light Red line, it was built for this project. The line then operated with 6 daily services using DMUs from Dec 2012 until it was ceased in Feb 2014 due to the lack of rolling stock.

Originally, the Light Red line was going to use diesel rolling stock and the SRT Dark Red line electric. Thankfully, that changed later and the Light Red line was electrified as part of the Dark red line electrification contract.

On 12/25/2020 at 12:03 PM, Lakegeneve said:

The SRT has been testing the line since October. It is a completely different SRT commuter system to the ARL (which was built for eventual 10 car operations) so probably not worth comparing. In any event, the ARL will become part of the Eastern HSR line with new rolling stock. The gauges are also different.

 

These sets are made by Mitsubishi and Hitachi, they are the first lot of Japanese rolling stock to be used on any of the new BKK lines.

 

The SRT ordered 15 6 cars sets for the Dark Red line to Rangsit and 10 4 car sets for the Light Red line to Taling Chan. Of course the SRT only ordered these in mid 2016 when the line was originally due to open in late 2016..........(you can blame the 2014 coup for some of that delay but most of it is on the SRT as they started the bidding process in 2010!).

 

Remember, the Dark Red line will eventually be some 87kms long when done (in a few decades at this rate) and the 2 lines will carry nearly 1m pax a day so it is good that they started with 6 car sets.

 

 

The SRT on Wednesday confirmed that the SRT Dark Red line and SRT Light Red line will commence free trial operations from 26 March.

Full commercial operations will commence on 28 July.

1 hour ago, FarangryBirds said:

 

At the Ratchada/Ladprao end there still looks like a lot to be done with the yellow line, pillars and rails are still going up, stations still just shells with no exits built yet. I'm not surprised any 2021 opening will only be at the Samrong end.

 

As a footnote. I can't remember if BTS use the same construction firm as MRT but that new St Louis station on Silom line went up super fast. It caught me off guard when the train stopped there last week, steel frame for the roof was still going up before Christmas. 

Samrong end is opening first as that is the end where the depot is located (near Y17). It gives the BSR an opportunity to iron out kinks before the full line opens. This line has basically been planned for 30 years (in previous master plans - as heavy rail) so it has been a long time coming....

BMA contracted the firm not BTS

The Department of Railways has announced that finally the PPP tenders for the next batch of extensions to the soon to be opened SRT Dark Red and SRT Light Red lines will be out in April. The SRT planned these 2 lines back in 2005.......The Dark Red line will be 87kms when it is finally completed (sometime in 2050 at the current construction rate!)

History
It is important to note that that 2 of these extensions (Dark Red to Tham Uni & south ext to Hua lumphong) were approved in 2016. Tenders were scheduled for Sept 2018 but then delayed until later in 2019. Afterwards, in July 2019 the Cabinet referred all extensions for a review with a view to do PPP tenders in early 2020 - much to the annoyance of the SRT.

SRT Light Red eastern ext to Hua Mark
I've mentioned this numerous time but the extension of the SRT Light Red line from Bang Sue to Hua Mark along the current ARL route was always a stupid plan as it duplicates the Cityline service and means building a whole new viaduct and adjacent stations to the ARL stations. However, given the recent policy change for the ARL become a part of the Eastern HSR line it may have some merit, but it stills means duplication of services.

SRT Light Red Sriraj/Thonburi Spur line
The short spur line between Taling Chan and Thonburi/Sriraj station (Kanchanaburi services depart from here) is also stupid. The original plan 10-15 years ago was for the MRT Orange line to run along this route and terminate at Taling Chan. However, the SRT objected as they didn't want to 'lose' control of the corridor so this section was swapped from Orange to Light Red. It is still unclear how the SRT plans to operate the Spur line but most likely it will be Taling Chan to Sriraj only. 

The priority should be to build following exts first - hopefully by 2024:
1) 10km ext Rangsit to Thammasat Uni - approved in 2016 and some of which is built north of Rangsit,
2) Bang Sue to Hua Lumphong - approved in 2016 (requires a belowground section past the palace)
3) Taling Chan to Salaya - was also to be tendered in 2018

On 2/13/2021 at 12:54 PM, josephbloggs said:

So in Australia people flipping burgers, sweeping the streets, working as labourers, are earning $130k USD a year are they?

Of course they aren't.

However, non skilled min wages of AU$25-$30 p/h are common and that can be as an 18 yr old McDonalds and as a 50 yr old labourer. (No one sweeps streets in Oz like the BMA has in BKK) Tax rates are of course higher than Thailand but then so is both cost and standard of living. Oz did have the highest min wage in the world a few years ago.

However, the main issue is comparing networks and ticket prices and then adjust for ave salaries. 

For the 2 largest cities in Oz, Syd and Melb - both over 5m pop - you can purchase daily fares at far below what is on offer in BKK AND access a huge network of trains, trams, buses and ferries (in Sydney). 

For Sydney a daily is AU$17 (394 baht) and weekly is capped at AU$50 (1158) 

- That gives you use of the whole suburban and metro train network (813km) ; https://transportnsw.info/sydney-trains-network-map 

-the 3 line Light Rail network; https://transportnsw.info/sydney-lightrail-network-map (a 4th is being built)

-Ferry network; https://transportnsw.info/sydney-ferries-network-map

- and hundreds of bus routes

For Melb a daily is AU$9 (208) and weekly is AU$45 (1042). If you purchase monthly or yearly tickets the daily cost can be as low as AU$5

- again an extensive train network (998km) https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/PTV-default-site/Maps-and-Timetables-PDFs/Maps/Network-maps/0c96079d1f/Victorian-train-network-map.pdf - some lines are 50km long

- the worlds largest tram network (250km), https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/default-site/Maps-and-Timetables-PDFs/Maps/Network-maps/417bb4810a/PTV_Tram-Network-Map_2017.pdf

- and hundreds of bus routes

Indeed, in many european cities you can purchase a daily ticket accessing a large network for less than what is costs in BKK.

In BKK, I can purchase a BTS daily for 140 baht (AU$6.00) to travel on 2 lines of under 70km in total! I then need to purchase the same for the MRT and buy a separate ticket for the ARL and any SRT commuter lines. BMTA doesn't offer daily tickets but you can purchase a weekly for 270 baht (air-con buses). 

The comparison is a little apples and oranges given BKKs still relatively infant metro network. The main issue is the lack of a single operator with the preferred private concessionaire model promoting separate, independent networks and the failure of successive govts to force all operators to integrate ticketing as the Mangamoon platform is meant to do. Common ticketing was first promised in 2008 - between the BTS and MRT.

15 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Construction on the yellow line has been going really well (I live near the Pattanakarn station) but it doesn't look like it could possibly be ready for October.  I would be mightily impressed if it was though.

Yes, it is proceeding well but we have to see where it is at mid year. Sri Lam (Y17) where the depot is located is a fair way south of your location so it might be more progressed in that section to Samrong.

10 hours ago, DDBKK said:

I notice that there is a claim that a specific section of the yellow line will open first (Samrong - Si Lam) which is currently planned for Oct 2021. Any official word on if this is true or not Lakegeneve?

BSR announced last October that both the MRT Pink line (Minburi - PK 30 to Govt Complex - PK12) and MRT Yellow line (Y23 to Y17) would partially open in October 2021 with both lines then opening in full un June 2022. However, more recently there has been the suggestion that rolling stock delivery and COVID related delays may push this back.

Let's see what the situation is by June.

On 1/24/2021 at 10:24 AM, madmen said:

I'm on the gold coast Australia and the tram which only goes one way down the coast costs minimum $5 even for one stop. 

Sure the wages are higher but the cost of living is also very high. 

This is very misleading. 

The fare system of Translink encourages pax to use the netowrk wide stored value Go card rather than single journey cash "paper' tickets. Thus, your 'paper' ticket costs $4.90 but using your go card it costs $3.37 or only $2.70 offpeak to use the light rail. That is almost half the fare you stated. 

Gold Coast Link is wholly within Zone 5 so you are only ever paying a 1 Zone fare. https://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/resources/plan-your-journey/maps/200106-seq-fare-zone.pdf

Now compared to a 2hr fare in Melb where you have some 250kms of tram lines and you can purchase a Zone 1 2hr ticket for $4.50 (or a daily for $9), then yes the Link is relatively expensive but that is usually the case with system that has only 1 line - albeit integrated with the suburban train and bus system.

On 7/30/2020 at 12:03 AM, Lakegeneve said:

The previous renders had them adjacent to each other.

 

I wouldn't get too worked up about this as it will be many years away if it happens. Look at the brief overview;

• 2004/05: SRT drafts new commuter network plans and included in the OTOP M-MAP
• 2009: SRT Light Red and Dark Red lines approved by then Dem govt,
• 2010-2012: Light Red line built, Dark Red line suffers 2 year contractual dispute with JICA (funding the project), Light Red runs limited services from Dec 2012 to Jan 2014
• 2013: Construction finally starts on the Dark Red line due for late 2016 completion (Bang Sue Terminal is part of the funding)
• mid 2016: Cabinet approves Dark Red northern ext to Thammasat Uni, Dark Red southern ext to Hua Lumphong and Light Red western ext to Salaya
• Aug 2016: SRT finally orders rolling stock for the Light Red and Dark Red lines (remembering that the Dark Red line was due to be completed by late 2016)
• late 2018: tenders for the Thammasat Uni ext and Salaya ext were due to be out but were delayed,
• late 2019: above tenders were again due to go out
• mid 2020: govt announces that tenders for the above will now be further delayed until 2021 in order to explore a PPP project funding basis. That means 4 years after Cabinet approved the first exts for boths lines, the tenders have still not been done!

At this stage the SRT Dark Red and Light Red lines will not open until March - June 2022 contingent on when Bang Sue Terminal is finally completed. That essentially means that it will have taken nearly a decade to build a 26km line!!!

 

Approx order of extension consruction:

1) Dark Red line 10km northern ext to Thammasat Uni - construction should be done in 2-3 years,

2) Light Red line 15 km western ext to Salaya- work should take 3 years,

3) Light Red line 6.5km spur line Taling Chan to Siriraj - construction should take 2-3 years,

4) Dark Red line 11km southern ext to Hua Lumphong - 3-4 years,

5) Light Red line 25km eastern ext to Hua Mark via Phaya Thai - 4-5 years

6) Dark Red line 39km ext to Mahachai via Wong Wian Yai - 5-6 years

Note: with all these est time frames add at least 1 year

 

Also note that in the long term future the SRT Dark Red line might be further extended 40km north from Thammasat Uni to Phachai in Ayutthaya province and a further 24km at the southern end from Mahachai to Maeklong. The Light Red line might be also extended 30km from Salaya to Nakhon Pathom in the future. 

 

At this stage 1-3 might be done by 2025 at the earliest, 4 might be done by 2028 and thus 5 probably wont be considered until after 2025. I would still hope that it doesn't get built and that 6 is prioritised before 5. Meanwhile, we will have the Eastern HSR line being built between 2021 to 2024 which will take over the ARL.

#6 is the section you are concerned with - refer to the maps on previous pages. I wouldn't expect this to start construction until later in the decade given delays in tendering #1 & #2. The Mahachai line is actually one of my favourites in Thailand. 

3 hours ago, Hugh Lao said:

Does anyone know what is happening on the line from wang wian yai to Mahachai currently serviced by the old SRT train? Will the new line be parallel with the old SRT line or will they just re-lay new track on the existing SRT line or take a complete new route?The existing train is an old rattler but I do enjoy the journey on a train that has a secondary use as a brush cutter. I have used it frequently to Rang Pho. It is currently a decent walk from BTS station WWY to SRT station WWY in the heat and I'm not getting any younger.

A previous post on page 20 answers your query. Eventually it will be fully replaced by an elevated, extended 87km SRT Dark Red line which will terminate at Mahachai. That's also the reason why the line has not been upgraded.