passon

Today I traveled on Bus 6 from Khlong Ton Sai, Klongsan (near the Hilton Hotel) which is alongside the Chao Praya River. I got off at Sanam Luang and took bus 203 over the Chao Praya River, past Pinklao to Bang Kruai, back over the Chao Praya and ended up in Wong Sawat. From there I took Bus 97 to Bang Sue, Saphan Khwai and onto Thanon Phahon Yothin to Arai and then took the BTS back to the BTS Taksin station after making a few stops. Every place I went was dry. I saw three different areas of the Chao Praya and noticed that the waters were high, but not spilling over. I saw a few military trucks, here and there, but no major movements. I did not observe a lot of sandbags, but I did see a major fortress of sandbags at Central Silom. I stopped at several stores, The Villa in Arai; Tops in Silom and Tops in Sapan Taksin. There of course were a lot of goods being purchased, but only Tops in Silom had a lot of empty shelves. Robinsons at Taksin had a lot of flashlights for sale on the top floor and no one had any Sterno, which was something I was personally hoping to find. I did notice a few restaurants that could not operate because they did not receive their food deliveries. When I took the boat ferry across the Chao Praya from Taksin, I did notice that the water had risen to the top and was just slightly overflowing into the immediate area, but that was the worst thing I saw all day. Well, that was my little trip around the city and I thought it might be nice to share!

Thanks for sharing. Straight up reporting makes a refreshing change.

Absolutely my pleasure. Your welcome!

Today I traveled on Bus 6 from Khlong Ton Sai, Klongsan (near the Hilton Hotel) which is alongside the Chao Praya River. I got off at Sanam Luang and took bus 203 over the Chao Praya River, past Pinklao to Bang Kruai, back over the Chao Praya and ended up in Wong Sawat. From there I took Bus 97 to Bang Sue, Saphan Khwai and onto Thanon Phahon Yothin to Arai and then took the BTS back to the BTS Taksin station after making a few stops. Every place I went was dry. I saw three different areas of the Chao Praya and noticed that the waters were high, but not spilling over. I saw a few military trucks, here and there, but no major movements. I did not observe a lot of sandbags, but I did see a major fortress of sandbags at Central Silom. I stopped at several stores, The Villa in Arai; Tops in Silom and Tops in Sapan Taksin. There of course were a lot of goods being purchased, but only Tops in Silom had a lot of empty shelves. Robinsons at Taksin had a lot of flashlights for sale on the top floor and no one had any Sterno, which was something I was personally hoping to find. I did notice a few restaurants that could not operate because they did not receive their food deliveries. When I took the boat ferry across the Chao Praya from Taksin, I did notice that the water had risen to the top and was just slightly overflowing into the immediate area, but that was the worst thing I saw all day. Well, that was my little trip around the city and I thought it might be nice to share!

The decision to spare Bangkok for as long as possible was the right decision. Bangkok is the nerve center, the financial center, the city that represents Thailand. Keeping Bangkok functioning as long as possible, kept the country going. It's easy to say should've,, would've, could've, but the key government and key military command centers are in Bangkok.The location selection dates back decades. The military hadn't even considered relocating key command functions until recent days. The government will have a hard time functioning without Bangkok because this is where the key bureaucrats and scientists are located. The major medical centers are in Bangkok. There are literally tens of thousands of critically ill people in hospitals that are transported in from outside of Bangkok, that have nowhere to go. The medical care strategy ahs always used Bangkok as the core region for high risk medical care. I am sorry large portions of Thailand have suffered the brunt of the flooding, but having Bangkok up and working allowed for all of these people to be helped. As Bangkok floods, the ability to assist those in need will contract.

The next question will be whether or not the south will be able to step up and provide the relief needed.

As you stated, all the key controls (government, economic, scientific and military) have been centralized in Bangkok for decades, which means they have had decades to decentralize its operations. Any successful operation structure is built with contingency and redundancy. As a former crisis manager who developed contingency plans for a major high rise building in Los Angeles; I, in partnership with city and state government insured both a Plan A and Plan B in response to any potential disaster. We especially understood the potential for a catastrophic earthquake, and designed our best case scenarios form our worst case scenarios We recommended to our tenants that they utilize the use of alternate data storage in states that were not in proximity to California which might also suffer, by extension damage outside of an earthquakes epicenter. Government and the private sector worked together to implement the structures of crisis management and to be prepared for any inevitability. This had everything to do with sharing resources and insuring, if I may simply the process, that all of our eggs were not concentrated into one basket. As Bangkok floods, to use your analogy, the ability to assist those has already contracted simply due to the distractions of attempting to salvage its centralized operations and resources, and its inability to execute or communicate an effective disaster management plan. The government is already having a hard time functioning, and because it lacks the components of proper disaster mitigation, people are suffering; and, the major medical facilities you speak of are far beyond the reach of an ordinary Thai citizen, so it's a stretch to imply that any of them would suffer if in the event these hospitals were compromised if Bangkok were flooded. I too am sorry that large portions of Thais have suffered because of the worst flooding in at least 50 years, but it does not mean they should have to continue to suffer to insure the integrity of a system that set itself up for disaster. To ask people to suffer (more) because of the incompetence of others who want to avoid suffering is the height of arrogance, and it is obvious that those who have suffered are, for the most part unwilling to accept that they should continue to suffer anymore than they already have.

I love the advise on the crocodiles! I feel safer already with my stick!

Cheers!

Hey, at least the crocodile won't eat the stick!

I suspect that the Japanese companies will lick their wounds from this devastation and continue on. Easier to repair than to relocate. But if Thailand wishes to have additional investment by foreign companies in the future, THEY MUST come up with an actual working flood plan so this will not occur in the future. If there is hand wringing this year , and then the government's money is spent on useless submarines and fighters, and then more floods occur next year, you can kiss foreign investment good bye.......

It's extremely hard to lick a wound that is submerged underwater and impossible to continue on if there is no emphasis on flood water mitigation, as you eluded to. These companies will either collect the insurance to repair or replace the equipment that is currently underwater; I believe they will negotiate the replacement cost for all their damaged equipment at wholesale, and make up the difference in retail cost, which they may attempt to collect from the Thai government. A new machine is much more reliable than one that has been submerged underwater for a long period of time, which also allows these firms to relocate, if that is their intention. They will have plenty of time to decide their action plan. Risk management has a lot of tiers initiated into it and it is never a simple process, so there will be a cost ratio analysis of what is best for the bottom line based upon short and long term expectations and realizations. Thailand, as you said will have an opportunity to inject itself into that process and provide their assessment of its failure to control the floodwater and its short and long term approach to towards mitigating future events. Mere words will have a deafening effect on that process, so I suspect, in all things related to business, they will have one chance to make the right impression in order to salvage the damage that has already been done.

Best of luck Passon! I'm heading back to Bangkok Tuesday night and I hope all will be well. The conflicting reports are maddening for those of you in country I'm sure. But it doesn't help those of us on the abroad either!

Thanks so much. The streets are almost clear now, and it doesn't appear there is another storm headed this way, at least for the time being. Yes, the message machine has way too many Indians in the tribe, and each one tells a different story which is very frustrating. I hope all is clear here when you arrive on Tuesday, all we can do is hope! Safe trip!

We are flooded out here in Charoennakorn, near BTS Krung Thonburi. The streets and sidewalks are underwater at the moment. The storm just pushed out, so I'm sure it will be a few hours before all the water drains out.

To the OP: I was in that same bus on Monday morning but just for a border run... As far as I remember, the lady in charge mentioned, on the way back, that for people who want to apply for a tourist visa, some rules are becoming more strict and have to provide proof of stay and sufficient funds... Sorry to hear that implementation of the law caused you trouble.

@Crossy: yes, you stay at The Tropicana -for 2 nights- while one of their agent is going to Phnom Penh with your passport, to apply for the visa.

Thanks. That was nice of you to mention that!

The three guys who went with Jack Golf on Wednesday were supposed to come back with us this morning and are STILL stuck in Poi Pet at the Tropicana as their applcations for tourist visas were denied on Thursday. All 3 only requested single-entry after they were told double-entries were no longer possible. Jack told them they may end up stuck there until Monday and still may not get the tourist visas, so may end up coming back into Thailand with only 15 day stamps.

Staying only two hours at the Tropicana is already a nightmare... I could not dream about staying there one week!

By the way, that means that these poor guys did not even got their passport back... So their books are somewhere in P.P.?!?

Thank you. I really dislike the Tropicana and I sort of went off in the lobby on the 4th day when I was told, once again, that my passport was being held up, and I included my displeasure of the hotel in my tirade. Too bad most of the staff can't speak English, then they would know it too. My heart goes out to the three who are there for the weekend. I don't even have to imagine their frustration.

I'm confused, I don't think there is a Thai consulate in Poipet or do Jacks put you in the Tropicana and send the passports to the embassy Phnom Penh?

Sorry; yes, your right. The passports do go to Phnom Penh. Poipet is where the hotel is located.

I just returned from a visa run with Jack's Golf. Lots of problems. I applied for a single sixty day tourist visa. I was away from the country for six months and returned in August and got my 30 day stamp. When I went to Poipet, Thai Immigration held my passport for three days. I was told by Jack's staff at one point that I had too many extension request; again, I have been away for six months, and that I had too many overstays ( two one day overstays...six years ago). Then I was told my paperwork was not in order, in addition to the other excuses. I submitted a letter of residence signed by the manager of the complex where I live, since I do not have a return air ticket or a hotel reservation. I was in Cambodia for 5 days and four nights, at an additional expense to myself. The itinerary was for three days and two nights. I brought enough clothes for two nights. Thank God I brought money, since the Tropicana Hotel (the one that Jack's uses) does not accept credit cards. Anyway, I was told by Jack's representatives, because I asked, that 3 others were held back in the group that I arrived with on Monday (9/12) and five others were held back with the group that came in on Wednesday (9/14). Anyway, it's not Jack's fault, but Thai Immigration in Poipet (I can not speak for others) is putting visa request under the microscope and using old rules to assert new power; so, if your going to Poipet, I highly suggest you do your homework first, or at least pack clothes for a one week stay. I've been in and out of Thailand for 7 years and I have never had a problem until now. It would be nice if others could chime in if they have also experienced problems at this border or any other border for that matter.

Passon, what would a Thai need to do to hang out in your civilized home country indefinitely?

Thank you for referring to my country as civilized, that's a good start to answering your question. Indefinitely is an unknown quantity, but to be specific, a second visa stamp in my civilized country entitles a Thai person to enter and exit the country for a period of ten years. My country also allows foreigners things like resident alien status, green cards and a path to citizenship. How does that match up to Thailand's alien resident program?

"respect for another country's visa laws." Respect granted where respect is warranted but in this case the laws have been drafted by myopic xenophobic idiots that impose nonsensical and impractical conditions for those who don't fit into or who object to their ridiculous conditions.

In any civilized western country such laws could be challenged as being racist and unjust but hey,.. this is Thailand so why bother trying to conduct an intelligent conversation about it? The greater majority of their rationale behind such ever changing laws and imposition thereof just defies logic,but this is not a land of logic so again why bother?

The 15 day walk,.. the 2 stamps limit, the 800,000bht in the bank before retirement/marriage visa is granted,.... all totally stupid, impractical, imbalanced and unjust. Then to have a farang singing praises to their righteousness is just too much to bear!

Sure makes the overstay model increasingly attractive. No border runs, no visa hoopla, and a simple 20,000 baht on your way out (provided you don't get arrested and black marked) and that can save you a bundle even if you overstay by a year.

Introduce sensible, fair and equitable laws and then you'll probably get fairer play.

How can you respect the laws of a country when they are both totally stupid and unjust and also when they mean nothing to the Thais themselves as corruption from the top all the way down to local government and the tea money collecting BIB prevails with no abatement in sight?

Sounds like you're quite angry and not cut out for living away from home.

In any civilized western country such laws could be challenged as being racist and unjust but hey

What Thai immigration laws are racist and unjust, and could be challenged as so in a 'civilized western country'?

If you're a genuine tourist, get a tourist visa. Tourists don't live here for years on end.

If visiting friends, get a Non-O

If studying - a Non-Ed

Working - Non-B

etc etc.

A great system for those who belong here. If you don't meet the criteria that they set in their country, that's your fault, not theirs. 10s (100s?) of thousands of foreigners living here perfectly legally with their own house (yes, house), their own car, their own condo extremely easily. No visa worries at all. A great system. Well done Thailand.

Wow, and it doesn't get too much more cavalier than that. "A great system for those who belong here." So if you don't have a house or a car or a condo, you don't belong here, right? What exactly is the criteria? I'm not visiting friends, I don't need to study or work, but I live here completely dependent upon my own resources, and I pay my fair share into the system with no need to buy a house, a car, or a condo. Does that make me an outcast in your book? It's amazing to see so many post here with the "Ive got mine attitude." Tourist live here years on end because they have no other option, so as convenient as your little world is, it is the system that requires them to access whatever means is available to them to stay in a place they chose to call home. For you to say otherwise is selfish, arrogant and self-righteous.

Tourists don't need 4 Tourist visas.

Good to see them cracking down on people illegally abusing the system.

Should really make it a limit of 2, not 3. Or even a limit of one in neighbouring countries.

Why is it you think they are abusing the system? I think it's the other way around. I'm one of those people who does not have to work, but who enjoys living in Thailand and has a modest investment in possessions, friendships and community, so placing limits on my ability to get future visa stamps is both frustrating and burdensome. However, I realize there is a, " I got mine" attitude at play here which makes your comment all the more disconnected to the dilemma most people face who want nothing more than to play by the rules, if they could just figure out what those rules are on any given day.

By the way, the definition of "investment" in the Obama dictionary is spend, spend, and more spending of the US tax dollars..

Not really sure what you're trying to say here so maybe english isn't your first language. The word "invest" normally means you spend money to get money, typically more money then you put in.

I hope by now you realise how silly your post is.

I believe the original post was meant to tell you what "Obama's definition" of investment is. I agree 100% with it. Obama will spend, spend , spend and THAT is why Thailand wants him in closer alliance. Pesonally I hope he stays home as he has embarrassed his country enough and Thailand doesn't need him. Let the Baht float and then perhaps you can have Obama here. If he does come then please find a way to make him stay as we don't want the Socialist back anyway.

What is embarrassing to the country is people who spill out unqualified rhetoric that is full of pretentiousness. You can agree all you want and multiply the word "spend" until it is spent to the point of becoming nauseous, and it has. You've stated what you see as a problem, so what's your solution? How exactly is it that you have the presence of mind to know exactly what it is Thailand wants from the President of the United States? And why exactly do you think Thailand, "doesn't need him?" The baht does not seem to be the only thing floating here with these constant unqualifed inneundos and theories about a man who actually conducts himself as a president. The actual facts about the progress Obama has made with leaders, not just in the ASEAN, but in Russia and in Europe speak volumes about his ability to bridge the gaps of our former president. The fact that the economy is slowly starting to gain steam speaks volumes about how TARP saved the country on the brink of financial collapse, and even though it is still in a fragile state, it is at least moving (currently) in the right direction. However, there are a good many economist out there, not including yourself that have validated the path the president took to get the economy back on course. We don't live in a perfect world, and we don't have a perfect president, and I do not always agree with the path he takes, but I always have the option, just as you do, to run for his job. Your insinuation that the president is a socialist is reprehensible and I won't sit back and listen to the fans of division insult this president without rebuffing what I know is not true. Again, where is your proof? You have none. The Talking Points from FOX and those who broadcast shameless hate will not help you, because their facts lack; well, facts. It never ceases to amaze me to see these kind of post that have an endless affinity for nonessential information that only promote hatred. However, I don't hate you, I just feel sorry for you!

P

Don't even equate the Thai/US Amnity Treaty with Obama. That treaty was established five years after he was born so connecting him with it is bull. If the Thais was oratory, yes, let him come. Substance, forget it.

Yes, I am an American who is watching my country go to hell in a hand basket due to him and his Chicago type politics. The only thing he will bring is a bunch of planes and synchophants costing millions for the US taxpayer. He could care less for this part of the world other than maybe China. Possibly Indonesia due to his childhood.

By the way, the definition of "investment" in the Obama dictionary is spend, spend, and more spending of the US tax dollars..

The writer said, " I'm already pleased about the Thai/American Amenity Treaty," so he was not giving the president credit for the actual treaty, but commending its existence. The country went to Hell during the eight years of George Bush, and Obama came into office to pull us out of the hole he found the country sinking in. So, you can not erase 8 years of mismanagement in two years, or expect miracles in the worst financial crisis in a generation. It took ten years to recover from the last financial crisis, The Great Depression. Check the facts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression_in_the_United_States

I don't believe for a second that Obama has an Indonesian agenda, and there is no proof to the contrary. I'm sure you probably think he is a Muslim, an undocumented citizen, and a socialist who fraternized with terrorist; but, the truth is, he isn't any of those things. He does drop the ball along the way, and there are things he can probably do better, but at least he is trying to get the economy back on track; so, I think what he cares about is a level playing field, something China does not believe in, and because of the unprecedented financial growth in China, it goes without saying that there is more focus on its expansion and how it effects the overall GDP of the United States and its trade deficit. Obviously China has a much bigger impact on those numbers then comparatively smaller Asian countries, so its really a matter of priorities. So, there is no Obama dictionary for spending, that's what mega banks do, and I don't believe he is deliberately ignoring Thailand, but from what spills out of the local papers in Thailand are never ending stories of the financial success of this country, and how that has evolved into huge foreign inflows of investment that have systematically increased the value of the baht against the USD, as any foreigner is painfully aware of that fact, if they depend on the value of the USD for their living expenses in The Kingdom. Therefore, if investments are overflowing , what need is there to pander for what the country apparently already has? which is, again, according to the news, an appreciating baht that is creating more investments that is stimulating growth (jobs, small business creation, commercial leasing, home ownership, auto sales, personal consumption, etc...), creating wealth, providing austerity to the poor, along with an inflation rate that is about 3%. Perhaps this is simply a courtesy call, an invitation to allow the president to see first hand how the economy in Thailand is thriving, and perhaps an opportunity for the him to ask for some financial assistance for a country, as you put it, that is "going to Hell in a hand basket."

it's an invitation for the US investments.

obama might know where thailand is (unlike bush), but doesn't know and care more about it

Bush was here in 2003 for APEC but being the scholar you appear to be you wouldn't know that.

Was he here to massage the shoulders of the sitting Prime Minister?

I fly 10,000 miles to get away and he follows me....is there no place safe?

You flew 10,000 miles to get away from the president of the USA because you feared for your safety? Really? I guess you could hide out in the USA until the coast is clear if he decides to come here and visit; he wouldn't think to look for you there. It's too obvious!

I am extremely skeptical of these numbers. All of the hotel operators I have spoken to this year are complaining. I have a number of friends who own restaurants, retail shops, and massage places, and one of my friends is the GM at a 5 star hotel in Samui. All of them say the same thing. Worst year in memory. So, if tourism is the same, where are all these people staying, eating, and spending their money? With the extreme level of censorship, how do we know that the government authorities do not have an equal ability to manipulate the media, and sites like Thaivisa? How can we consider this info reliable? Who do we believe? All I can look at is what I see on the ground. Right now, Koh Samui is slower than it has ever been, on Dec. 18th.

Bob NYC and JayJay0 have indicated that all the tourist are now in Chiang Mai enjoying the scenic beauty of the Night Bizzare. I know someone who works at a nice high rise hotel in Bangkok who says they have laid off a considerable portion of their staff due to low tourism. I've also heard a lot of first hand complaints from small business owners I deal with and business for them is very slow.

I don't believe them, like I don't believe any numbers they give out. They are probably counting all farangs doing visa runs, after all, they are foreign and entering the country, and they are probably counting all tourists that are just transiting thru Bangkok going to other cities, neither of these spending any money. Probably could shave 1-2 million off their numbers.

You left out the migrant workers who pass through the borders who have legal status to work in The Kingdom.

Interesting all the trouble we have had this year and we get 15.7 million tourists.

Forecast for next year 15.5 million.

Wonder where the 200,000 tourists they are predicting we will lose are going.

Wonder if they know something we don't know.

I really don't know about numbers but here in Chiang Mai the Night Bazaar is the busiest I have seen it in a long time. (Three years)

I was just in Chiang Mai, at the Night Bizzare and it was the slowest I've seen it in the last 6 years. I could actually navigate through the sidewalk, past the vendors without pausing, being pushed, pulled or otherwise standing while waiting for an opening so I could continue walking, so I have no idea what you are comparing your observations to.

Well, thank goodness you were not the one making that decision, but by all means, let us fault the person who is taking the picture, the one who does take a calculated risk to report the news, to help document the truth; you know, to take pictures of people who don't like having their picture taken, especially the ones who are violating the law. How absolutely caviler of you to say, "Well, he ain't got much to boast about now!" So, let's follow your lead and completely dismiss accountability; it was the photographers fault!

Where is Noah when we need him.....stop off at Pattaya and pickup 2 of each

In Pattaya? Seriously? Perhaps you could clarify the what part of two each!

As a foreign teacher in Thailand already I think I can make a comment on this.

When are they going to let a teacher teach? I am constantly told how and what to teach. I am not allowed to teach proficiently. I am told "It must look nice and they must complete the work. Let them copy from the board" These are my instructions and if a student cannot speak, read or write a sentence it does not matter, so long as you keep to the time table and students can copy the answers or sentences. They fail their test, but I must pass them by helping them (give them the points or the answers) Parents are mislead into thinking their child is doing well because they always pass their test and the school looks nice.

If I complain the students cannot do their work, I am the bad teacher. The people in charge are just interested in bums on seats (money) quantity not quality.

I have tried the Critical thinking / Student centered approaches, if they do not have the vocabulary they cannot complete the exercise. My point is, give teachers more flexability, let them teach to quality standards not quantity.

Stop blaming poor teachers, start blaming bad management practices. :jap:

This is the proverbial tail wagging the dog syndrome. Foreign teachers are a necessary evil to achieve a monetary need. I never experienced administrative support over student discipline issues and students are well aware of who runs the school; they do! I was always told to 'entertain" my students. I never saw students being entertained by their Thai teachers, but I did see a few students on the business side of a long stick being guided by a Thai teacher, which perhaps was their form of classroom entrainment. Forced submission or games is not the answer to providing education, but the integration of English into a comprehensive, mufti faceted program that promotes competition, multimedia (journalism, broadcasting, marketing, drama) and other areas of interest could be used to reward achievement and provide access to national competitions, satellite classrooms that allow students the opportunity to exchange language with English speaking students in foreign countries and could serve to inspire student potential. Any government can talk about change, but the real money needed to institute these changes gets displaced into other projects that have no impact on the ability of future generations to compete in a global economy that speaks the universal language of English. The proposition that improvements in the education system can be instituted over three years is misguided and unrealistic when you measure it against the lack of progress in the current system. And we can at least agree that there is a lack of progress, simply because the problem is being addressed to some degree. It also has little chance of success when the opposing point of view relies on nationalism as an opportunity to impede progress. I stopped teaching here several years ago, simply because I walk into a classroom to teach, and to help my students achieve the goals of learning, and I was prevented from doing both. I view modern day education as an HMO that has but one priority, to minimize services in order to maximize profit; that ties the hands of the people who are dedicated to their profession and only want to improve the life of the people they are there to help. Progress is measured by actions, and so talk is always cheap if there is no action.

AHHHhh i see we are back on the teacher Tea bag scale of inflation

Life is good if you are earning baht .

I'm not sure what that means. You can be earning baht, but it does not mean life is good if you are not earning a lot of baht. The Thai government said not too long ago that an appreciating baht was good for the economy because imported goods would cost less and make everyday items more affordable, but they have since moved on and are now saying that it causes inflation, which is bad for the economy, but not specifically bad for those who are exchanging foreign currencies for (local) baht. The social mediocrity that is advancing remunerations for the new middle class are probably experiencing little effect on their discretionary income, and life for this classification of baht earners is probably, at the very least, good! Everyone else however feels the incremental effects of their income depreciating as the baht becomes stronger; however at some point the effects of inflation can begin to integrate into those who are earning higher wages; and, as the old saying goes, the more you have, the more you pay; and if all you do is spend and never save, the less you will have for a rainy day. Inclement weather is not the only thing effecting the flooding in Thailand, and once a flood begins to breach the levels of restraint, it can suddenly overflow into diverse directions that can no longer be predicted and thereby create a path of disaster that could have otherwise been repelled with proper mitigation. But who needs a plan? Life is good, right?