SailingHome

Getting quoted form movers in case I must vacate. All of them have fairly standard limits on their liability ( who wouldn't if you can get away with it?_ At most one company will pay 25% of losses up to 2,500 THB. Whoopie. My theater and research machines are too expensive to purchase again and I never could find a "renter's insurance" company to cover items in the room. Anyone know where I can buy some short term converge?

19 hours ago, PJ71 said:

The luxury must be incredible at that price!

To answer some questions:
* I am not haggling. I don't care about 500 baht. I am trying to make sense and learn about a culture. Also I am in need of contract so i can't be made to move out suddenly. For parkinson's the home becomes a tool with special adaptiations. You don't jsut pick up and move easily. I also have buld great friendships here. Moving to another room? Seriously, guys, we all know he next landlod will have their own issue of power tripping

* Yes the room is peanuts (a remodeled room might go for 4000), no it is not a s^ hole. It is in Chatuchak in a abnormal polygon that people have no reason to live in unless they live here or have family. I ended here becaus when I got out of the hsopital my Parkinson's assistant (yup, inexpensive) lives around the corner. I am quite content in this are. Good, working class people that take care of each other and mostly mind their own business. 

* the 600k room is larger and far more luxurious than the new condos just bult across the street iwth modern architecture rather than "Thai 90's expansion era architecture." Those meager 20 meter rooms are 2 million. Seriously? Tell me where you can have even a new condo with as nice of upgrades as the 600k room for less than 4 million.

* no, I can't just move to the 600k room. it is not for rent and I do not qualify for a loan - the owner is not interested in the math entertainment of financing it himself.

25 minutes ago, Andyfez said:

You said room stay empty for years. Why not just move to another room? Moving furniture for one room surely is not that difficult?

 

5 minutes ago, TheFishman1 said:

Will either pay the 500 more per month or find a new place it’s not hard you mentioned it a lot of vacancies. They are moving into one of them. It’s very easy to call a few people that will help you move. It’s very inexpensive here T. TIT.

Normally I too agree with you both.  What I didn't point out is that with Parkinson's the home becomes a tool to help manage your care. It takes a lot of time and expense to do that. The owner gave me permission to install things, for example, with the agreement I get to take them with me and leave the room as it was when I moved in. To them the water damage the old and broken AC unit caused to furniture is my fault. Normal war and tear? My fault, not normal wear and tear. The financial and time cost to move is very high plus I am heading to New York for a an invasive surgery next week and am facinga 6 week recovery - bad timing. 

I could seriously care less about 500 baht, guys, lets be real. I can't even get a new contract so it is month to month and I never know when I will lose my home with only 5 days notice becasue they are bound by no laws. 

Let us not forget... no matter where I move TiT as someone so eloqently pointed out. Do you really think the next landlord will be any better whatsoever? Better the devil you know.

6 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

The law that really only applies if landlord has 5 properties or more , does your landlord

have more than 5 properties ? that law ?

 

regards worgeordie

 

 

Good point. I realize that less than 5 properties the laws are skewed toward their favor, as it should be, really. At the same time a contract is enforceable. Unless I have a valid contract I can not register with Bangkok immigration and must use an agency. Immigration actually sent me an email explaining that I must be able to show hotel receipts, VALID rental contract, or my name in someone''s blue book. That without it I am "homeless".

I reallly don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a contract. Let me show you her son's idea of a new contract. Don't like it, leave. Either the guy wants the room for himself is just power trippin. 

6 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

Good luck with the surgery.

I am with you on the rest.

I am not sure where my stance is at the moment, so since ur with me want to clarify where we are? 😄 

ROFL... one of the things I have learned here is, "So what?" Language: !0000% pretend to be respectful and never make it seem like accusing, even if you must lie about the situation and if they don't get the hint? So what? It costs money or physical threat to compel people to do things. This is the culture. It is for a reason that works for them as much as enforced codependency does in the Philippines. Are they happy inside? Not many. How many? I'd wager more than in the West 😉

Maybe my question should be, "How do I 'phrase a Carnegie to them?' Meaning, explain, 'Well, you can ask that of me. Let's look at how that benefits us both... so would you like me to keep paying your bills or do you have someone waiting who will pay that high of a price - because I'm here for the fine service that i enjoy, but if you can make more money without me, it is not right for me to stand in your way."  You see, that does not work here. Face is more important here. They literally, by all that they are as a Thai and their family's child,  their cultural upbringing must stand firm. Anything else is a loss of face (this is what my wife and business partner tell me...) It is not reasonable compromise of two winners and mutual benefit. I just eloquently shamed them beyond any format they have ever witnessed or felt. They KNOW all the facts in the Carnegie speech. They made a choice to GAMBLE. It is a game of chicken. "Will the falang cave for convenience and 500 bath isn't even one meal for him (and for me is 4 days.) Probably. Will I continue to care about and respect them? Hand me their coffee cup, I will refill it.

Not so easy living alone with Parkinson's and a surgery scheduled some time in the next 2 -6 weeks. I really don't care about 500 baht, I just want to follow the laws.

Lease expired 3 years ago. Now they want more per month. I am already paying more than other rooms rent for and those are remodeled. I don't think the owner's son cares much about mom (I mean that protectively of her.) She is too old to manage things. Rooms here sire empty for YEARS. She can't pay the taxes and HOA and things without me and we have a mutual understanding. I offered to buy it above market if she carries. She sees how smart that is. Income, no taxes, not HOA, if I leave early she keeps the money and the room - simple. Son? NOPE! Add another 110k or move out. OK.

I have no issue paying an extra 500 a month for the convenience of not needing to move with my Parkinson's disease and a surgery coming up and living alone. No worries in any way except one. I will follow the laws and have a lawful contract or I am not leaving and I am not paying more. There is no enforceable contract. The old contract has no precisions for termination. I've lived here 3 years... My lawyer wants have a field day... sigh. Chill dude.

Anyone know the REAL laws of this rental situation of expired contract that does not lawfully follow 2018 L&T laws?

I find it quite humorous other than how the mother is being used.

Let's face it. Every culture is different and we don't immediately see why people may do what they do. We try not to judge more than to say if that value is a principal we want in our own thinking or way of life or not. That said, it is always nice to understand.

Take properties that sit empty for years. In my condo unit built in the'90's where few people have a reason to live unless they work near here or family, rooms sit empty for years unsold yet for a small reduction can be sold quickly for way more than they owe the bank (easy to see the default notices on the door.) Other rooms are rentals - they sit for years because the owner has a dingy, never remodeled, old aircon, bad wiring unit but want the rental price of the many available remodeled rooms. They are quite content with is no income, pay the taxes and HOA situation. 

My own landlord wants 500 more a month. No big deal. Unlawful the way she is asking based on 2018 laws, but that is another thread. She would rather I move out. I am paying over market because the room had furnishing, I was fresh out of the hostpital and it was near my nurse. They know and I know that the 500 baht means little to me. What does matter to me is their feeling their belief they can walk in any time unannounced an almost break the door down kicking it in because they want to see me. It bothers me that they refused to file with Immigration and I had to pay 30k for a visa agency instead of 1.9k. It bothers me that I find out the lease did not comply with 2018 laws and almost all they think they can do is unlawful. 

Do they care if I move out and the room is empty? The mother is already behind in taxes and HOA. Not a concern in the world that I am already paying 1000 over market. I pay on time, I improve the room and will take all improvements with me if they force my hand - I have the chat messages pre-approving my changes and I take them with me when I leave.

Faced with their financial situation, as a Westerner, I am asking myself, "Is this a game of chicken?" If so, they will lose. See-yea! I'll be next door in the newly remodeled luxury room at the new price wanted for this room. Or, Hmmm... here's a thought. How about I have Siam Legal enforce the 2018 laws of notice of increase when a contract is expired? Alas... as I get older battles to prove a point have no meaning any more. See-ya.

I offered to buy the room since she is having difficulties paying taxes and ongoing maintenance at her old age. She likes that idea. the laughter I tried not not let out in her presence was the insistence she will not take less than 650k. Unmodeled it is worth 460k. Remodeled to incredible luxury next to me is listed at 600k. They will not come down and it has sat for 4 years. A mutual friend says she will lose the property to the government (or bank? her English is not great) soon, More is the pity. I am going to need to move anyway. The owner owes less than 200k - I had to get all of this info to do Immigration papers on her behalf. I am befuddled. Please don't say this is pride and face is it? Surely the Asian long term perspective is the real reason, but in the face of profit or none; take the money or lose the property to default... there is no long term planning.

I would like to understand though. Any facts out there, not judgments? Cheers all!

That's agreat dolution for those that can get back to their native land. It's only a few of unable to travel due to health. 

Thankyou again for all the input. i wil bail outof this topic.. gonna be in the hospital a few days.

12 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

As I told you before, there are many methods of transferring money to Thailand.
If you request your government to send it direct to your Thai bank account, then the transfers are made through Citibank using the Bahtnet transfer system.
It's no different for UK expats, who have elected to send their pensions directly, they go through Citibank using the Bahtnet system.

 

 

Thai Immigration orders clearly state the money must come from overseas.

Amend 138-2557 (2018 ) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdf 89.42 kB · 0 downloads

2.22 Retirement.

 

I missed the ovrseas part. I am going on a week of sleep deprivation. Apologies and thanks fo finding that.

USA has just announced all Social Security sent to thailand will be via citbank and bahtnet, so, yeah, if you can tell the community how you who receive your payments that way get the right documents I am sure we Yanks will be appreciatve.

1 hour ago, pizzachang said:

Mine says FTT on every deposit to Bangkok Bank NY - Bangkok Bank here in Chiang Mai prints the 12 month print out (usually takes two weeks or less) But I've noticed that the last 1 year renewal of NON-O, that the officer just looked at the summary from Bangkok Bank (required document) and simply added the print-out to the "finished stack". Maybe someone else looks at it later, during the "consideration period"?

That's great! Too bad SSA has announced that the Bahtnet system will be used for everyone now and Immigration has ZERO clear cut rules nor does it say the money must come from overseas. 

iimmi.d1.non.oz AT gmail.com: cc complain.kk2A T gmail.com "For the 1 year Retirement visa , must have bank statements of commercial banks located in Thailand. Past 12 months. Details according to the attached document. Best Regards." (PDF attached)

fbu.manila AT ssa.gov: "Thank you for your email. Since you are using a bank in Thailand, your benefit goes to a processor bank in your case is the Citibank Bangkok. All benefits that are being deposited in a local bank will go thru a processor bank before the benefits will be deposited in the local bank account. If you do not want this delay, you may use a U.S. bank account."

YOU figure this out. I am going to pay $1k per year and avoid the hassle, thanks

บั้นปลาย 242 PDF.pdf

8 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

They stamp and sign it (certification) the day they issue it to you.

My apologies.. I was so focused on other things I didn't think of that!

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

No.

Statements have to be certified the same day as the application submission, although certain Immigration offices do allow a window of up to 7 days.

OK .I believe that, though if true then why are most people adamant that reports must be ordered at least 7 days in advance? 😃

12 hours ago, Liquorice said:

There are many different ways to transfer money from overseas to a Thai bank account.
From an expats point of view, they research for a cost effect way to get the best foreign currency exchange rate to Thai baht.

From Immigrations point of view, they require proof of an overseas transfer.

 

Not many expats have their pensions paid direct to a Thai bank using the Bahtnet system.

The Bahtnet method of transfer gives the best exchange rates and low administration costs.

The problem with using the Bahtnet system of transfer is that the transfers will be coded as 'Bahtnet' on a Bangkok bank 12-month statement, and BNT in the passbook.

You therefore require additional proof this method of transfer came from overseas.
That proof is a 'credit advice' receipt that you have already posted, which makes it clear it came from a foreign source.
You need a credit advice receipt for each and every transfer, which you should be able to arrange with Bangkok bank.

 

Immigration may not be familiar with the fact that Bahtnet transfer originate from overseas and you may need Bangkok bank to explain that to them.
That was my experience.

 

The other point you're now aware of is with Bangkok bank you need to give a week's notice of requesting a 12-month bank statement which comes from their HQ.

 

When you speak of 'direct' payments, be aware there is no method that will transfer any funds direct to your personal Provincial Thai bank account.
The reason is simple, in that local bank branches do not have a SWIFT code, only the HQ branches have a SWIFT code used for International transactions.
In the case of Bangkok bank, that International SWIFT code is BKKBTHBK.

Regardless of the chosen method of transfer, every transfer will go to Bangkok bank HQ, who then forward it to your local branch using your account number to identify the branch.

That SWIFT code is actually to NYC, but symantics. I went in last month to ensure that my deposits were all ok and eligible for the print out and was told they are. Was told that the old way of circumventing the 2-accounts is no longer available because we tell SSA once year in a form that we are alive. I was told, and Su still says now, come in the day before, "I can print them in 10 minutes." She was prepared to do that for me when she discovered that the Fed was sending to Citibank and her bank was getting a Bahtnet. With hope based on optimistic evidence I did what I could based on what I was told. Why didn't I do it sooner? I was also told that Immiration wants the bank letter to be dated the day before coming to renew the Retirement visa. I woud have done that last minth, but my recalitrant landlord's children (she is over 80) spent more time literally bashing the monarchary and their government and that they are above the law. hey would not do the TM.30 nor give me the papers to do it. I finally got the bluebook from the old woman and in 4 minutes online did it for them. Their fine for not doing it in 25 hours and spending 6 weeks? 800 baht. That said, check my next post.

Not sure why my new topic asking how to show immigration that FTT is coming via a secondary bak. So be it. Chexknout this answer feom SSA. If this is true we should all be havinh this problem, no?

Hey, guys, as the battle wages on we have gotten a bit fixated on the topic as it was known then. This topic is more specific to the real issue.

I found out today that SSA is not performing direct deposits. They are assigned to the Fed and sent. To do this, the depost is FTT to Citibank Bangkok who puts in BKB account as Bahtnet. There are advantages to this method that can be read about in other threads.

The question at hand is how to prove to Immigration that those Bahtnet (IE Thailand transfers) are really from overseas. Has anyone using this method been sucessful at showing immigration their 12 deposits? If so, how? Bangkok bank can at most print the deposits which shows the original sender was SSA who gave to Fed who FTT wo Citibank, but it is not the "certified" format we come to think of for renewing a Retirement visa. In fact, BKB told me I can try to go to Citibank and get them to make the correct format for Immigration, but good luck since there is no account with my name on it these transactions are flowing through.

Yup. I will go back to DD for next year, but time is up for me... I have to use a $1000 visa agency now.

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1266639-ssa-payments-to-thailand/

A very infamous post, Doc. Are you pointing at the if I go back to direct deposits I will need to go in each month again? Something else? 

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

Yeah, I'm familiar with the Bahtnet system. The income goes through Citibank to the Bank of Thailand, to Bangkok bank HQ to your local Bangkok branch account.

These types of payment appear as BNT in a passbook and Bahtnet on a HQ statement.

You threw me by stating it was coded as TT in your passbook.
Check again!

Apologies, no, hthey do NOT say TT and I never thought they did.. my Parkinson's can confuse my language skill. Thank you for pointing that out.

Are your by chance not from USA? If so, your banking can perform a type of transfer that ours does not like to do - play in the new international money transfer arena. As Americans the main (or only that I have been able to find) way to get our direct deposit is a payment to our same account number at BKB but at the New York city branch. 

1 hour ago, lou norman said:

The same thing happened to me in December. Just go to the BB branch in the basement of CW. They will give you a letter that is acceptable.

At least it was in December.

Lou, thank you. Are you saying you had the same type of Fed deposit instead of SSA direct deposit? 

When I spoke to that branch on the phone this morning the most they were willing to extend assistance was call Siam Paragon and ask them to do their job. They stated it must be done at the branch I opened my account. Do you recall if you said anything in particular to get such a letter? As staff changes, so does the wind it seems. I am going to your method tomorrow when I go.

I do have all 12 deposits printed from the computer and at the bottom they say they are computer generated and need so additional signature (a sample is posted above if you or anyone has a chance to check it - maybe someone has used this method before?) I have the "certified" 100 baht letter of the status of my account, and have the regular 12 month statement with the deposits highlighted matching the 12 printouts.

Since there does not appear to be any fixed standard of evidence (for instance you got a letter, another guy got something else, etc.) and clearly the money did come from overseas but was only but into my BKB account using Bahtnet, it seems reasonable this is "good enough" proof. Reasonable, is of course, up to the officer that takes my case, their mood of the day, and a number of other biological and socio-idiopathic demands upon them. 

I can really only try at this point. I like your idea as a, "Just in case." Maybe they can say whether what I have will work and maybe they can even give a letter as to why it is that way. Cross some fingers and toes on my behalf, please 😉

43 minutes ago, fceligoj said:

Go to the BBL Headquarters location, which is close to Siam Paragon.  They should be able to assist you better than any branch.

 

this issue has been presented for the lastfew years, like more than ten.  If the writer of this notifiction had been reading AseanNow on this subject, he would have known about this dilemma and would have acted accordingly.

😉 Thank you fceligij. I felt tht reply deserved my highest honor of awarding a trophy, which I seldom do. That is an extremely helpful, thoughtful, and direct Western approach to solving a complex problem. You seem quite certain of your answer and that is refreshing. Personally, I find deep criticism of my personal failure very helpful since as a researcher and a fairly powerful man I tend to get what I want in life, so I find comments like yours lift me to a higher station and cause myself to improve. Thank you.

Most folk around these parts know me to be a rather deep researcher of focus when I need information and ask as a last resort. That is a rather large assumption that I did not search. In fact I did read all of the articles I could could find, and, no, I do not read and keep up every day, every detail, as a troll. Nor shall I apologize for that.

Until now this has been a very supportive and uplifting set of compassionate peers which I find to be far more helpful in the situations of stress than the exact answers. Exact answers are rare when dealing with things of this nature, as you are aware. If it helps, I did go to the main branch today who also said to go to Citibank and hope they can produce the letter without my having an account there. I only discovered TODAY the these are not FTT direct to BKB, but go through Citibank from the Fed instead of direct deposit from SSA... or maybe your copious time to, "had been reading," overlooked a detail or two just as mine did.  Didn't read that?

Now that I have been flogged, may I please have your permission to enjoy the camaraderie that has been so wonderful these past few years and do productive worry? I appreciate your permission. It will make me feel ever so much more useful to the community at large.

4 hours ago, Liquorice said:

How, through whom, are you transferring your SSA income?

No transfers go direct to your branch account in Thailand, unless your account is at the HQ branch.

 

In a Bangkok bank passbook, TT stands for a local Telex transfer, FTT stands for Foreign telex transfer.

I really don't remember the process that was available in lieu of firect deposit from SSA. REmember: we used to need 2 accounts. One for SSA to deposit to and one to spend from. We used to have to go to the branch in person to prove we are alive then they would put the money in our spending account. I was planning to be out of the country but needed atm and debit access to my money as well as to pay rent, mobile, etc.

The second option was have the US Govt send on behalf of SSA direct to the spending account and fill out the "No, I am not dead" form once per year. Highly preferable to going to the bank every month.

They are still doing that method. To do it, the money goes from SSA to the fed to Citibank via FTT. Citibank then uses Bahtnet to give to BKB. Another beauty of this is you get the current exchange rate not one a week old and save the 150+ baht for BKB in NYC doing the conversion and transfer.

The fed is still doing this. I need to change back to direct deposit NOW so I have 12 months next year and the letter is easy. Immigration MAY accept what I have now (12 copies of what I sent above - one for each deposit) and my normal statement plus the account status certified letter. If not, I am in need of a visa service.

Thanks RocketDog... my account book is not up to date and being a more "official" branch they will not sign anything the rulebook does not allow.

I emailed the sample of 12 to immigration to ask if they will accept them. 

As Su drives off the track for a much needed hour break, I have in my posession only 10 of the 12 deposits unstamped and needing to go to citbank. Steeping in to gas things up another tellef provided the customary letter of accout status, Immigration version, dor the normal 100 baht.

Now I wait an hour for Su to change her oil, so she make an account statement of only the bahtnet deposits so I can go to citbank. With the dead srewn abojt the track, fires ablaze, I would rather PAY to have this done... my Thai wife died. She made thing so much easier.