qualtrough

On 12/26/2025 at 10:24 PM, JackGats said:

Congratulations! I'll pass on Thai citizenship. I'll be long dead by the time they'd give it to me.

 

In countries like Peru and the Dominican Republic, the foreign pensioners' problem is to DELAY the citizenship process, lest they lose foreign retiree status and the tax exemption that goes with it.

Why should we care? Why are you even hanging out here?

On 12/22/2025 at 4:20 PM, FelixPeccatum said:

Hi all, I just started my journey towards citizenship, and might have a few things to add that I noticed were different than expected.

 

at first I was expecting that bringing more years of information would make the case better, however all of my evidence extending beyond 3 years was friendly returned and told it was not required (I had 12 years worth of tax documents, work permits etc, they really only wanted 3 years).

first visit was in late September to go through the list, it became obvious I needed to get some more documents, including my education papers legalised in my home country.

 

so early December, I had it all sorted I thought and went back. Just in time to be the last person in the old location at Siam, and being told that for the next appointment I needed to go to the new location at chaengwattana.

 

I am currently on an LTR-H visa, so I have a digital work permit. SB requested me to get a statement from the ministry of labour. I went to my amphur office of department of labour and they said: your visa is under BOi, so we transferred all your files to them. Maybe you can check there. So off to OneBangkok it was. Took quite some confusion, as at first they didn’t know what documents I required (even with a sample), but one lady heard I wanted to apply for Thai citizenship and she knew what was required. 2 weeks wait, 400 baht, but also that one settled.

 

for my company affidavit, my legal department requested an official copy from DBD. This is basically a printed out document with digital signature. This was at first rejected by the SB, as it required original stamps and signatures. Since my company has multiple mayor shareholders in several countries, my head of legal counsel was not sure he could get the documents signed in time, so he called my case officer and a few documents were added to the list and it went down smooth.

 

Last week, when I brought the final stack of documents to the new location, all documents were accepted, but I was asked to change my two witnesses. I had two witnesses that are well placed in companies and agencies, and my case officer said I should get regular people, that are more likely to be available at the interview. Sounds sensible enough, and maybe having less “political connection” to my witnesses might be good in this current climate.

 

so, today we updated the witnesses and gave those documents.

 

it was then mentioned I could say when I was available for the interview, they told me I should practice Thai and practice the national anthem (I take this as the case officer wanting me to get more points, as as far as I know it’s not mandated?).

he mentioned as well, that once I finish I could meet with the MOI for another round with 3-4 people. And it almost felt he was indicating right away. Will need to verify with the misses if I got that wrong, because what I gather here, that would be a few months of waiting?

 

anyway, will keep you guys updated, and fingers crossed!

 

btw, new location is nice, and has ample parking. For those that have to go there, it’s behind asawin hotel, and a new block, so not the old special branch compound, a little further down and in the corner (it will make sense when you get there).

 

my case manager seems very friendly and supportive, but speaks like a machine gun (fast as hell) and seems to not speak a single word of English…

 

Sounds like we have the same case officer.

I have a friend who's preparing an application. He has all this documents save one. This is what he just wrote me: 

Argh. I brought my diploma back with a certification from Marco Rubio that it is authentic and no agency will translate and certify. They say I now need a Thai consulate in the US to certify that the Department of State certification is authentic.

Is that right? Is it impossible to get it certified here in a way that will be acceptable to the MFA?

I received my citizenship a few years back. I plan on purchasing a townhome and have signed all the papers to do so with a reputable real estate agency. The next step is to go down to the Land Department and go through that process.

If any of you have any advice or experience you might have in going through this kind of process I would appreciate it if you could share it here. 

On 5/30/2025 at 10:12 AM, heiri007 said:

 

There is a dislike of everything non-Thai among the higher ups. Thais integrate so well in other countries. Here? Am still waiting for the first mixed or naturalized Thai to have a say in government or politics. Show biz of course, but politics. A farang face in local elections, that would mark real progress.

Thai-Chinese citizens have been and are prominent in politics here. Does that not count?

I don't think a farang running for office here would be progress. If I wanted that, I would have stayed back home.  Thailand is wise to be choosey about the number of people it allows to be naturalized. I am very glad that Thailand hasn't opted for the mass-immigration policies of the US and  many countries in Europe.  We are already seeing a backlash against some of the foreigners is allowing in at the moment, and in most cases it is justified. YMMV.

On 12/18/2024 at 5:06 PM, DrJoy said:

Just avoid the trolls

You are right. So many sour grapes. You see it here and anywhere else the topic comes up. Not to mention the sheer amount of misinformation about the process.

On 12/12/2024 at 10:41 PM, DrJoy said:

31 Female candidates granted Thai nationality, RG publication on 11-DEC-24

 

53941.pdf

One Dutch woman, the rest from PRC, Taiwan, Lao,  Vietnam, Burma, and other Asian countries.

On 9/18/2024 at 6:41 PM, FlyingThai said:

 

I think for many if not most it's the problem that you would have to surrender your current citizenship as dual citizenship is not permitted in a vast amount of countries unless obtained by birth.

 

There are practical benefits, but they are limited depending on your financial situation. As is, people who have very little money it's rather useless because buying property is probably not in the cards. If you have a lot of money then you get most of what you want anyway unless you insist on having property in your name.

 

Some people I know did it for fun as a pet project.

I think many more countries allow dual citizenship now than don't, and I know some have recently relaxed their rules on that.

In any case, even if they have very little money, how could they not see the benefit of never having to waste any time or money on visas and work permits and all the other hassles in daily life thrown up by not being  a citizen?

On 10/27/2024 at 12:31 AM, IsaanExpat said:

Hop further back in this Thread. Arkady had posted some information about a dual Brit-Thai who had tried to use his British Citizenship while entering Thailand I believe. And he had his Thai Citizenship revoked.

I believe I saw that earlier. Was that the one where the person was repeatedly warned not to do that, not just a one time thing? 

Any other cases that come to mind to anyone?

On 10/22/2024 at 5:47 PM, david143 said:

https://ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/documents/33075.pdf
Loss of Thai nationality

https://ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/documents/40015.pdf
Restoration of Thai nationality

https://ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/documents/40473.pdf
Female Candidates

22/10/2024

Male candidates still pending
 

From my very brief perusal, the loss of nationality document appears to  list people who have requested giving up their Thai citizenship. Their names and their new country of citizenship are then listed. It looks like those of countries that do not allow dual citizenship, like Singapore.

I would be interest in seeing information about people whose citizenship was taken away from them and the reasons for that.

On 9/3/2024 at 1:16 PM, sas_cars said:

I assume you memorized both songs. How was the singing and was it accepted gleefully? 🙂 

I obtained citizen through marriage and was not required to sing.

On 5/16/2024 at 5:12 AM, SAFETY FIRST said:

She looks great, I'd buy her Durian. 

 

I'd say the only people that would be complaining are jealous women and the many miserable, cranky, moaning AN forum members we have here. 😂

 

I'm heading down to Rayong today, get myself some tasty Durian. 

 

My girlfriend sells mangos wearing a sexy outfit. 

 

 

She has nice mangoes!

On 5/12/2024 at 9:59 AM, onthemoon said:

Yes, I think so. Thanks.

You can divide your life into pre and post citizenship periods, and the latter is so much more convenient. Well worth any wait.

Sorry for beating this horse to death, but my decision is to go for the usufruct now, and if I am around in five years and feel like it I can always pay the reduced price and get added to the chanotes. If anyone can  see any flaws with this reasoning please speak up now or forever hold your peace 🙂

On 5/4/2024 at 1:14 PM, GarryP said:

The Land Office is notoriously corrupt. Not that many years ago, it was ranked as the most corrupt Thai government agency. Probably still is. 

 

On a related note, I am quite a few years older than my wife so am considering having my name removed from our title deeds. May make things easier for her when I kick the bucket (hopefully not anytime soon).

Same situation, bit of an age difference. But we have a will that stipulates that everything goes to the surviving spouse, and then to the children when both of us have shuffled off this mortal coil. That was  drawn up by Tilleke & Gibbin, so I am assuming they knew what they were doing.

6 hours ago, oldscool said:

Before you pay any fee, I’d ask for an explanation of how it’s calculated, and obviously get an official receipt for any payment.

 

I’ll add that: regulations do change; language problems do exist even between native Thais, never mind naturalised Thais, regarding land regulations, which can be quite obscure; naturalised Thais are not frequent visitors to the land office, and the average official is not likely to be aware of any specific variations in the regulations for naturalized Thais – if indeed there are any; and no two cases are necessarily the same.

 

Regarding usufruct, there’s no reason why a native or naturalised Thai shouldn’t use it – it’s standard in many countries – if it actually provides the level of security you are looking for.

 

And last but not least, having conferred with my other half, I’m advised that adding a name to an existing chanote (ie not transferring ownership, but extending it) should not require any fee other than the nominal administration fee – the 2.75% which I referred to earlier was for a different situation. If that’s the case then I can’t explain either of the charges you referred to.

 

If you and your wife are not fully up to speed with all of this, I’d really recommend taking someone with you who is - getting refunds from government departments can be excruciatingly slow!

 

Thanks for your reply. I definitely will ask for a calculation, e.g. how are they basing the valuation.

Regarding the usufruct, I believe they wanted 75 baht for the fee, and the rest to pad their own nest. Hard to challenge decision-making officials on things like this, because if I tell them "No, we will only pay the fee" they can come back with something along the lines of "We are not going to give you a usufruct because you are obviously using it to avoid paying the transfer fee". Or any number of reasons. Conversations like that can go back and forth until the end of time. Sadly that is the way it works here much of the time.

To recap, it looks like the choices are to either pay what they ask for the usufruct, or pay the transfer fee after agreeing on how that assessment is determined.

I keep vacillating between choice 1 and 2, but will probably go for paying the transfer fee as long as it is within reason of the legit rate due.

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I was about to reply and say there is a tax implication, before I read that the Land office wanted to charge you 75,000 tax.

 

Yes, there is a tax implication, because half the Chote is in effect being transferred to a new person, so tax on half the value is correct.

 

Consider the situation where you add your name to the chanote, and a few months later she removes her name from the chanote, you now have the chanote in entirely your name without paying any tax, that is why there is tax to be paid.
.

Makes sense, thanks.

21 minutes ago, Arkady said:

I jointly own a house and land and two plots of raw land jointly with my wife. When Srettha became PM Chuvit publicised a case where he alleged that Srettha's company, Sansiri, had aided tax evasion when buying a high value piece of land that was owned jointly by a group of about 12 people. 

 

All the land I own jointly was previously owned solely by my wife and my name was added to the chanotes after I became a citizen. There was definitely tax to pay, as it was considered a transfer of half the value of the land. Theoretically there is a special low rate rate for transfers to direct family and we had called to the Land Office ahead to confirm this for the first transaction.  But a nasty wrinkle awaited us at the Land Office. We were told that, in order to benefit from the reduced tax rate, I would have to be able to show that I was already a Thai citizen when the land was acquired which I was not.  I thought this sounded like a scam or xenophobia but exactly the same thing happened with the other two pieces of land in another province.

 

The tax on transfer of land goes down after 5 years because you don't have to pay specific business tax on land you have held for more than 5 years.

 

I had a usufruct on our house before I became a citizen.  I paid a lawyer a few thousand to organize it but didn't have to pay a bribe at the Land Office. There was a small fee. I assume the bribe is because they have the right to refuse usufructs, particularly if they can say they were concerned someone would be taken advantage of and sign their rights over under duress for very small financial benefit. This is very common when foreigners buy land in the wife's name and want a usufruct.  Land officers may be refuse, specially in places like Pattaya where they see it every day.  They may still view you as a foreign in that context.  As so often in the Thai bureaucracy, vague laws and regulations combined with excessive discretion allowed to officials creates perfect conditions for corruption.  Unfortunately I don't think there is much you could do about it because they do have the discretion.

Very helpful, thanks. I think this explains what is going on, and your explanation of why 10,000 was being asked makes perfect sense.

Pretty sure I will just bite the bullet and tell them to proceed with the expensive option 🙂

1 hour ago, oldscool said:

As of a few years ago adding a name to a chanote incurred 2 costs: 1. a fee of (I think) 2.75 %, as it is actually a change of ownership rights, even if no money is changing hands 2. A nominal administration fee.

 

This would seem to explain the 2 charges you mention. Having your name on the chanote gives you the protection you are looking for, as GarryP suggests.

 

Usufruct is not relevant to your situation, so I can't explain why the เก็บกิน was raised.

 

An update as you proceed would be interesting, thanks.

Thank for your help!

Here's some clarification to the best of our understanding.

If I want to have my name on both Chanotes right now it would cost 75000 in the fees you mention.

They also said if I wait 5 years this would be reduced to 35,000.

OK, fair enough.

But then they suggested the usufruct, but stated that would cost 10,000 baht under the table. This would mean the chanote holder (wife) could not sell or borrow against the properties without my consent as they explained it to me.

So, now what I am not clear about is why adding a usufruct would require a  10,000 baht "fee"? My name isn't being added as a co-owner, rather basically as a tenant with usufruct rights. 

As this juncture I am thinking I will just pay the 75000 in fees and get added as the joint tenant and be done with it.

Thanks to any others who have had any positive suggestions/comments. Or those to come.