qualtrough

Arrived at the new airport late at night a couple of days ago. Some observations.

1. I was surprised that the passageways to the terminal have rather low ceilings. Coming from HK the new airport seems more confining.

2. Long, long walk from plane to terminal.

3. Cleared customs very quickly, under 5 minutes. Hope that lasts.

4. First baggage arrived quickly, but baggage continued to arrive for over an hour. Needless to say one of my bags was in the very last group to arrive. Very slow. The baggage machine in use works in such a way as to produce a big bang every time a bag drops down.

5. Amused myself observing baggage cart defect noted by others. Must have seen half a dozen people place a small bag on the cart only to have it fall right off the back. How in the world did this obvious defect make it to the manufacturing stage? The carts are otherwise OK and I believe larger than the Don Muang ones.

6. Failed to find much info on transport options. It may be there, but I didn't see it.

7. Total chaos at arrival area. You have to push your way through at times. Touts aplenty. Really bad and creates a poor first impression for new arrivals.

8. Ground level area is an accident waiting to happen. To get to the private car service I used we had to cross a 4 or 5 lane roadway. Cars and vans were zooming by at high speed. People coming from parts of the world where cars stop for pedestrians (e.g. LAX) will be very vulnerable if something isn't done to make it safer.

Since the package was sent from the UK you would have to follow-up with UK Postal authorities.

Sad story, but nice of him to let us in on the nud_e photos!

I will be flying into the new airport very late Oct. 1. I live near the old airport. I have looked at the pinned transport options and only see a public bus route to Don Muang. Are there airport bus routes to that area? If not, does anybody know what taxi and limousine rates would be for traveling from the new airport to Don Muang?

On average, a man breaks wind 14 times a day, and a woman 7 times.

Some people's farts genuinely do not stink.......believe it or not.

My (Thai) wife farts many times a day, but mostly her farts do not stink. However, she is extremely shy about farting anywhere that anybody can hear her.....except me. In fact, she doesn't even like to pee where anybody can hear her.

I think farting in public is frowned on, but within the family policies vary. I know that my wife once told me that in her family they were regarded as a source of great amusement in her family-and I still married her. Contrary to the forum members experience above, hers reek and mine cannot be detected most times.

I don't think that behavior is normal, even by Thai standards. She obviously is extremely insecure. If you haven't done anything to cause that (e.g. been caught cheating) then you need to see if you can find out its origin before you can even began to deal with finding a solution. It is tough to find out what makes a woman tick in any country, and even more so here--so good luck!

Greetings Lopburi3,

What to do with bombers & murderers of innocent people? My brother in law ( Thai Navy ) is in the South and has been wounded once by these same murduring thugs so... And... By the way... I was in Laos fighting in another war 36 years ago along side every brave Thai Soldiers and... My family is Thai and... My home is Thailand so... Censor me ( again ) if you like however... Until this situation is resolved it will continue... So.. What to do Lopburi3 and others? I know what to do with such murderers to make them cringe and discourage others with such thought against Thailand but... Maybe you have some idea? So... What are your ideas?

You know what to do with such murderers to make them cringe and discourage others do you? Hope you come up with some better ideas than the ones that were used 36 years ago because that didn't work out too well did it? Why don't you leave the Thais to settle their problems without your interference? They are not doing too well right now, but they did overcome a communist insurgency when they finally dropped the 'kill 'em all' tactics that were tried for so long time.

Before resorting to violence, why not purchase a long pole. Use that pole to bang directly on the ceiling in his bedroom area at selected evening and late night hours. When he eventually calls to complain, tell him that it is 'normal' and hang up. If he informs the landlord tell the landlord you haven't a clue as to where those noises are coming from, but you do know that there are a lot of noises coming from upstairs.

Here is another tack: If he has a GF, tells the guards how shocked you are that he is carrying on like that when he has another wife back home (or upcountry-take your pick). That will get back to her in about 5-10 minutes usually. He may even move out after the breakup.

I just don't know qualtrough. So many Thai people I know seem to base so much of their living on a "for the day" aspect that historical issues seem to be nil.

Also, it would be interesting to note how the slavery system worked. My limited understanding of it was that it was more similar to the feudal European system from the Middle Ages than it was to the slave owning system of the Southern US. ie absentee owners as opposed to very involved owners.

I'd agree that Thai people seem to "live for the day" but it was also my understanding that e.g. a Thai woman will generally not marry beneath their class. If ancestral slaves in the family tree implicitly lowered her potential husband's class, then this might be something she (or maybe her parents) would try to determine before making such a commitment, no?

If you're right that the "slavery" was more like indentured servitude then yeah I can see how it might not make much/any difference to their descendants.

While not like slavery in the US, from what I have learned it was somewhat more onerous than indentured servitude. The fact that slaves were tatooed with their owner's or master's name seems to be one indication of that. I think one of the problems too is that there does not seem to have been much scholarship on this, and that some of what I have seen tends to be written in such a way as to minimize the slavery, for the obvious reasons.

qualtrough and terry57 thanks for your advice but

because I really enjoy my food - and because I have already seen

a lot of Laos in any case now, I would just rather risk going back to a place

where if I inadvertently break the law- I could end up on

a daily diet of " pigfat water soup " - served just twice a day

365 days a year !

I just think there has to be something wrong with the

mentality of the authorities if they are willing to treat

people like that who haven't even being tried and convicted ?

There will still many many countries left where at least I will

get a better diet if I am incarcerated :-)

Midas -Incidents similar to the one that you read about recently have ocurred in Thailand from time to time, even to foreigners. Below is just one example. Read it and then start packing those bags

Colin Martin's Welcome to hel_l: One Man's Fight for Life Inside the Bangkok Hilton (2005, ISBN 1-905379-06-04), is both the tale of an unfortunate western businessman caught in the intrigue of a confidence game, and a primer for any westerner caught in the web of the Thai legal system. Here, Martin discusses topics such as the proliferation of big Thai business interests in the Thai underworld, payments to police officials to arrest innocent parties, and the need for the imprisoned accused to bribe his prosecutor to show up for a court date. While in detention, the author discovered that edible food could only be obtained by buying it directly from the guards (to their profit). Guards also know how much money a prisoner has on account, and can thereby use the information to leverage sexual favors from the imprisoned's girlfriend or wife. This didn't affect Martin's Thai wife, who absconded with his bail money, leaving Martin to wallow in prison. All in all, Martin's key message seems to be: bribe your way out as early as you can, as longer detention equals larger bribe requests.

URL: http://www.thaioasis.com/literature/lit_ex...xperience01.php

Cmon this is a family matter, violence is quite the norm

That sounds like some family you have married into Nam Kao. Good luck with that!

OK, spoke with the wife just now. It was some years ago so the details were a bit hazy in my mind. She had an older woman come here and build a little tent that my wife laid down in. She gave her a massage and the tent was heated by steaming herbs. As I noted earlier, my wife does not come from an Isaan background, so this is not restricted to those from that area. My wife graduated from University, but this is something she said that many Thai woman still do. As I was leaving to write this she called out to me that this is only for natural childbirth, not a caesarian, confirming what some forum members had written. Would be interesting to know if any studies have ever been conducted to see if there is any demonstrable benefit?

Thanks to all of you who have replied so far. Does anyone know of any scholarly papers that have touched on this topic, by either local or foreign academics?

I agree that the average Thai has only a very vague knowledge of their history, strictly in line with what they are taught in school. That would not be too different from the case in my home country judging from the ocassional history surveys results I have seen. I also agree that the racial aspect was an important factor differentiating slavery here from slavery in the US and elsewhere. The fact that Thais only adopted family names after the abolition of slavery also means that those names would not be helpful in identifying former slaves, etc. All that being said, I find it hard to imagine that there are no vestigial remnants of the slavery experience here in some form. I suspect there are, but that they may be too subtle for most farangs to detect, or we may see them but not realize their origin.

I think the difference might be that slavery wasn't race based.

Another nightowl?

I am sure that is part of the different response. But I am curious as to whether or not the slavery issue might be present in ways that the average farang might not be picking up on.

I recall reading the first in the series you mentioned on the BBC and being surprised that it did not mention any of the historical background to this issue. Did any of the subsequent reports deal with this? This issue has come up from time to time on the forum and it is clear that a lot of readers think that the Southern unrest is some kind of post 9/11 issue, whereas the roots of this conflict go way back.

Without any understanding of the history of the region no real understanding of what is going on is possible. I will say that the Thaksin response has not helped matters. In fact, it has poured gasoline on the fire. Slaughtering a large number of for the most part unarmed men in a mosque and killing a good number of protesters by stacking them like cordwood in trucks really escalated things, and a lot of what we see now is payback for those and other deeds. If Thailand adopts the US response to this kind of issue then Thailand is in for very grim times indeed.

I am sure that most forum members are aware that at one time long ago a form of chattel slavery was practiced in Thailand, finally being abolished shortly after the turn of the century. In form it was somewhat different than slavery as practiced, say, in the USA, but still slavery. I also recall that slaves were marked by tatoos to indicate their ownership. As a long-term resident here I do not recall this ever being an issue with anyone, whereas back in the USA there continue to be repercussions from that era to this day, and it is always the elephant in the room in black/white relations. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who can help answer the following questions:

1. Is there any stigma attached to belonging to a family that were once slaves?

2. Do Thais even know who does or does not come from a family with a slave background?

3. Does this issue, or issues related to this, even come up in Thailand in any way, shape, or form?

This belief is not restricted to Isaan. My wife is from a central Thailand background (Ayudhaya), and after the birth of our firstborn I recall her having an old woman come and give her some massages that involved heat and herbs, possibly the tent routine. She is sleeping now but I will ask her to refresh my memory tomorrow and report back.

As far as the shaved heads, ocassionally you will see Thai children with a shaved head and a topknot in the traditional Thai style. I have asked around and the answer that I received was that the children had been ill and that the parents had made a deal with whatever spirit or entity responsible for illness that they would have the child wear their hair in that style for a period of time in return for the child being cured.

So the OP has visited Lao many times without incident and enjoyed it, but reads one book about a couple's bad experience in Lao and is therefore never going back again. If I were him I would stop reading books or the news because if he doesn't he will find that he will run out of countries that are 'safe' for him to visit.

I don't have a problem with customs and immigration authorities in the US doing their jobs, and I expect that I will be questioned and even searched once in a while. I do have a problem with rude agents with an attitude, and I have experienced that on a more than a few ocassions. I will be visiting the US again on Monday for 10 days, so might have another story, although I hope not!

interesting responses in this thread.

looking at the larger picture,

what kind of culture teaches its members that to kill another human being is an acceptable way of resolving a dispute?

all above warnings about being careful are so very true of course.

it just seems to me that even the foreigners are afraid to say that this kind of behaviour is neanderthal.

i am always looking for an influential Thai person who will speak out about how schizoid Thai 'culture" is.

like in pretending to be Buddhist and then voting back into power a man who gave carte-blanche to the police to go out and kill people (the "rid Thailand of drugs campaign") without any review or repercussions.

in my humble opinion,

there is no moral leadership in this country.

the Sangha has too many corrupted members.

Monks are there for giving out lottery numbers, for a price.

Politicians and business people are nearly all corrupt.

Academics are toothless tigers or in someones pocket.

News and TV are scared into compliance.

A country that cares so much about "Face",

and nearly everything it does only causes others to see that they being mentally primitive, thus losing respect.

i think it ok to criticize what one sees as immoral or stupid behaviour.

in many many countries on this planet, that poor chap would not be dead.

there is NO EXCUSE for this kind of behaviour.

and now with the new visa enforcements,

Thailand is becoming an international joke.

Sorry, but in a lot of countries that tourists visit, including the USA, tourists sometimes get murdered. A good thing? No, of course not. If you think of all the hundreds of thousands of tourists that spend most of their time getting shit-faced in sleazy bars during their visit here the amazing thing is that more don't end up dead or injured. If that same number of people were to visit bars with strippers and hookers in the US the number would be many, many times higher. It seems to me that a lot of forum members bought into the Land of Smiles nonsense and get all outraged when a bit of reality creeps in. I have lived here for a long time, and sadly once in a while a tourist dies or is murdered. In my opinion the only reason there seems to be an increase in these events is primarily due to the fact that we have better and instant communication now via the Internet, and because the number of foreigners here has dramatically increased.

It is if you are one of the up-country types who sit around drinking Lao kao shouting "จน" "เครียด" "จน" "เครียด" all day long.

I seriously doubt if that kind of people would have the nerve to ask for a loan.

And if you did provide the loan for them then you don't deserve to have any money left.

That was the point really.

Seriously if it was one of my brother in laws that did that to me i would kick his a$$

This is the Thai way and i would save face even if i lost.

By doing nothing I have lost face with everyone. This is upcountry "face" protocol, BKK

may differ.

Good luck

nam

I seriously doubt if that is the 'thai' way.

It is if you are one of the up-country types who sit around drinking Lao kao shouting "จน" "เครียด" "จน" "เครียด" all day long.

You would be crazy to get remarried so quickly, especially so shortly after getting divorced. The only reason you should remarry is if you still get along well after a considerable period of time and even then only if you want to have kids and raise a family. There are other simpler ways to get a visa and/or WP. Don't do it....but if you do please be sure to post periodic follow-ups for our entertainment

Hi All,

The way I read the rules is that if I remarry I can obtain a Non 'O' (maybe even Multiple entry) at a consulate outside of Thailand which then can be repeated after 3 months as I dont have the required 400k for the 1 year extension.

I got divorced from my crazy wife 2 weeks ago. We are on better terms now than we have ever been and she has offered to help me out with my now screwed up visa situation by remarrying. Has anyone ever been in a similar situation as this? Do I have to go through the whole marriage process again (declaration from embassy, translation, MFA, District Office ect.) or is there a 'period of grace' for people that *cough* regret getting divorced?

Thanks in advance for any help.

I cannot answer your visa question, but I have been in a similar situation. Some years ago I married a Thai-Chinese woman and we moved to the US. We stayed together about 5 years, but fought like cats and dogs. We got divorced and moved apart, living about 15 minutes away from each other. For the next year and a half we were together every night, with her staying over at my place. We had almost no fights and, like you, we were on better terms than we ever were before. The only thing that ended it was my going away to grad school out of state and then eventually meeting someone else. What I think made the difference, and I have heard similar stories from others, is that we each had our own space to fall back on. Anyway, that is how it worked for us. I am telling this to you because you might find that if you get remarried and move back in together you will be back in the status quo ante before you know it. Good luck on the relationship and the visa!

Seriously if it was one of my brother in laws that did that to me i would kick his a$$

This is the Thai way and i would save face even if i lost.

By doing nothing I have lost face with everyone. This is upcountry "face" protocol, BKK

may differ.

Good luck

nam

I expect we will be reading about 'Nam Kao' in the News forum one day...