Neeranam

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2005-06-01 21:49:39)

A drunk is a sick man trying to get better, not a bad man trying get well.

Alcoholism is the only disease that tries to convince you that you haven't got it.

As for those questions, I would have answered every single one a few years back.

I would say you are an alkie if you cannot have a couple of beers and stop without feeling crap.

I'd say your an alcoholic if you can not have a good life without alcohol. People who are not alcoholic can either drink...or not....it doesn't matter. If you want to know if you are an alcoholic or not then just try to go for two weeks without drinking. Go to your usual places....but don't drink. A person who is not alcoholic can do this and it is effortless...no problem...they could do it for months if needed. The alcoholic will know that something major is missing....its definitely not fun....etc.

I'm editing here to amplify on what I've said. To understand a disease it can be helpful to look at health. In understanding alcoholism it can be instructive to look at those who are clearly not alcoholic. A non-alcoholic person, when going to dinner does not think first about the wine list or order a beer. Most clearly non-alcoholic people do not consume alcohol at every meal. Most non-alcoholic people do not care to reply to a topic "10 best liquors" on TV. For most non-alcoholic people alcohol is not in anyway important in their lives....not a topic of convesation..does not enter their thoughts except on the few occasions that they do drink. Most non-alcoholic people, if asked their views on drinking, will not have an immediate reply...they have to think abit about what you want for an answer...because for non-alcoholic people alcohol is totally unimportant and has nothing to do with anything.....a non-issue......

Interesting post.

There are many types of alcoholic, IMO.

I think a "real" alcoholic will relate to the following.

Here is an extract from the first AA book:-

How many time people have said to us: "I can take it or leave it alone. Why can't he?" "Why don't you drink like a gentleman or quit?" "That fellow can't handle his liquor." "Why don't you try beer and wine?" "Lay off the hard stuff." "His will power must be weak." "He could stop if he wanted to." "She's such a sweet girl, I should think he'd stop for her sake." "The doctor told him that if he ever drank again it would kill him, but there he is all lit up again."

Now these are commonplace observations on drinkers which we hear all the time. Back of them is a world of ignorance and misunderstanding. We see that these expressions refer to people whose reactions are very different from ours.

Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone.

Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.

But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.

Here is a fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next morning he searches madly for the bottle he misplace the night before. If he can afford it, he may have liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no one gets his entire supply away from him to throw down the wastepipe. As matters grow worse, he begins to use a combination of high-powered sedative and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work. Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a doctor who gives him morphine or some sedative with which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums.

This is by no means a comprehensive picture of the true alcoholic, as our behavior patterns vary. But this description should identify him roughly.

Why does he behave like this? If hundreds of experiences have shown him that one drink means another debacle with all its attendant suffering and humiliation, why is it he takes that one drink? Why can't he stay on the water wagon? What has become of the common sense and will power that he still sometimes displays with respect to other matters?

Perhaps there never will be a full answer to these questions. Opinions vary considerably as to why the alcoholic reacts differently from normal people. We are not sure why, once a certain point is reached, little can be done for him. We cannot answer the riddle.

We know that while the alcoholic keeps away from drink, as he may do for months or years, he reacts much like other men. We are equally positive that once he takes any alcohol whatever into his system, something happens, both in the bodily and mental sense, which makes it virtually impossible for him to stop. The experience of any alcoholic will abundantly confirm this.

These observations would be academic and pointless if our friend never took the first drink, thereby setting the terrible cycle in motion. Therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind, rather than in his body. If you ask him why he started on that last bender, the chances are he will offer you any one of a hundred alibis. Sometimes these excuses have a certain plausibility, but none of them really makes sense in the light of the havoc an alcoholic's drinking bout creates. They sound like the philosophy of the man who, having a headache, beats himself on the head with a hammer so that he can't feel the ache. If you draw this fallacious reasoning to the attention of an alcoholic, he will laugh it off, or become irritated and refuse to talk.

Once in a while he may tell the truth. And the truth, strange to say, is usually that he has no more idea why he took that first drink than you have. Some drinkers have excuses with which they are satisfied part of the time. But in their hearts they really do not know why they do it. Once this malady has a real hold, they are a baffled lot. There is the obsession that somehow, someday, they will beat the game. But they often suspect they are down for the count.

How true this is, few realize. In a vague way their families and friends sense that these drinkers are abnormal, but everybody hopefully awaits the day when the sufferer will rouse himself from his lethargy and assert his power of will.

The tragic truth is that if the man be a real alcoholic, the happy day may not arrive. He has lost control. At a certain point in the drinking of every alcoholic, he passes into a state where the most powerful desire to stop drinking is of absolutely no avail. This tragic situation has already arrived in practically every case long before it is suspected.

The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.

The almost certain consequences that follow taking even a glass of beer do not crowd into the mind to deter us. If these thoughts occur, they are hazy and readily supplanted with the old threadbare idea that this time we shall handle ourselves like other people. There is a complete failure of the kind of defense that keeps one from putting his hand on a hot stove.

The alcoholic may say to himself in the most casual way, "It won't burn me this time, so here's how!" Or perhaps he doesn't think at all. How often have some of us begun to drink in this nonchalant way, and after the third or fourth, pounded on the bar and said to ourselves, "For God's sake, how did I ever get started again?" Only to have that thought supplanted by "Well, I'll stop with the sixth drink." Or "What's the use anyhow?"

When this sort of thinking is fully established in an individual with alcoholic tendencies, he has probably placed himself beyond human aid, and unless locked up, may die or to permanently insane. These stark and ugly facts have been confirmed by legions of alcohoholics throughout history. But for the grace of God, there would have been thousands more convincing demonstrations. So many want to stop but cannot.

for more here is the link - http://www.recovery.org/aa/bigbook/ww/

Abridged list:

1. One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

2. Taxi Driver

3. The Shining

Two great actors in these films. De Niro and Nicholson.

They would be in my top 10 movies.

I will finish my contract here in a few days time.

My company has indicated that it will terminate my Work Permit (fair enough), but that this will in turn invalidate my Non-Imm B Visa. The Visa will not expire until September 30, so just because I am no longer employed, does my Visa become automatically invalid at the same time?

Help!

Thanks

A few years back, 2001, I got my new wp for a year and also my visa. I left my work the same week. Everyone was telling me that I had 7 days to get to immigration, some in the know said that the Labour dept and Immigration were not connected. I took a chance and didn't do anything. After one year, I got a new 1 year visa but it was through an "agency", no problem. The only problem I had was when I got a new wp, I had to take my old wp to the police station and pay a 1,500 baht fine, then back to th Labour people. That fine was cheaper than leaving the country for a new visa. This might be risky though, maybe not.

I heard that if you go to the Brit. Emb they will give you some kind of letter to extend your 7 days to a month.

Blue & red = Company (Largest and original)

Green & yellow = Privatly owned.

Red and white = Airport taxis. (tbc)

All blue = New company.

All flourescent orange = As above.

All Navy blue = As above.

All yellow = As above.

All flourescent green = Same same, in fact - just how many of the full colour ones are there (how many colours) and are they all different companies?

Interesting, I didn't know that. I wish that some of these guys would come back to Isarn with their taxis and operate here.

Love the avatar btw, Good old Irn Brew, made in Scotland from girders. You'll need to drink a lot of that working on the trawlers. At least it's summer.

Arrived in January 1993.

Highs and lows have been to the extreme, and so many of them.

Being locked up in a drug detox was a low. The birth of my daughter was the high point by a long way.

I can't really remember the first few years as they were an alcohol/drug haze, every single day.

Today is a high, and tomorrow never comes.

Mr. TAX should solve the energy problem as follow:

just put a DINAMO inside the p u ssy of the Thai BGs, and the expat community + tourists will generate enough energy to help also China and USA!!!!!!!!!! 

That was funny Duke

I was told at my work to turn off the air-con for 1/2 an hour, which I never. It doesn't save money by turning it on and off in a big room. Stupid idea by toxin and nothing about money/energy saving.

What?

No Hank Williams or even the Dixie Chicks? 

I thought I mentioned old Hank, must have been another thread. I love "my buckets got a hole in it".

He would certainly have one or two in my top 10.

I heard an old one today that I had forgotten about - Roadrunner, can't remember who did it though.

Next time try asking- mee pleng luktung? and see how the trip goes.-peter

Great tip Pete.

I'd say being able to speak a bit of Lao, gets rid of all the negative attitudes.

Most of the drivers are tired and homesick, and this cheers them up.

A drunk is a sick man trying to get better, not a bad man trying get well.

Alcoholism is the only disease that tries to convince you that you haven't got it.

As for those questions, I would have answered every single one a few years back.

I would say you are an alkie if you cannot have a couple of beers and stop without feeling crap.

When you have a person coming home totally drunk peeing in the drawer and vomiting on the fabric sofa, then you will understand what alchoolism really is!!

Come on Duke, don't show yourself up here. There are Thais who write our language far better than you or me. Oh, and they get married too.

William Shakespear had a style...and it was his own. It is almost impossible to copy his style in composing an article since it is uniquely his. Experts can spot the imposter...and usually quite easily. The OP has two styles!!!! One I think is real and the other is faked....I'll let the interested observer decide which is which.

Why does someone want to do this? They would have to be sick.

I read this on bbc sport and was reminded that I met this guy a few times and have never met a more annoying person. Even when I was an Aberdeen supporter in the late 70's and 80's I never liked this guy.

Also, I think he is a terrible manager. Terrible choice Celtic, no way you will win the league under this prick.

Many of the boys in robes are not monks so much by choice as by necessity, being orphans or from dirt-poort families.

Or "ex"-criminals.

Well, I can tell you for certain that we have had a client who was fined for working at a second location of his company (IT company) - company and work permit said Bangkok, but he was working for months at a time in Phuket.

How much was the fine?

I would, and do tell all my friends not to bother, as the Thais don't really care.

Thai on farang - Strange.

Farang on Thai - Strange.

When I tried to extend my marriage visa last time(Jan), they made me go back 1 month later, which is normal I believe. I had 400,000 in the bank, although briefly.

Then in Feb, they told me to come back again in March, then April as it was still being processed, although I overheard one of the officers saying in Thai that it had

probably been rejected. This month, I went with my Work Permit and letter from government institution that I work at. They said, "sorry, come back in May". When I said that I wanted to change my visa, they said that I couldn't, and didn't even look at my WP and letter/contract etc. This seems a bit strange, if not ridiculous to me and I have never heard of this happening to someone with a Thai wife, family, and work permit.

I am going to Australia soon and wonder if I can apply for a visa there? Would this cancel out the one I am waiting for?

The Immigration are not wanting to give me much advice on what to do for some reason.

Well I got my visa at last today.

They gave it too me and I think expected me to be happy. I had to go to Nong Kai for 5 months, monthly when I have also got a work permit. I think they should give me 1 year from today, instead the ******s gave me 7 months.

Next time I think I will forget the Thai wife visa and just use my work permit if I have one.

You received this in 5 minutes in Bangkok? Normal to have a queue here and be told to come back in an hour, two, four or whatever the height of the stack of passports.

No, Nong Kai.

As long as you have one you will be ok.

I bet no-one has ever heard of anyone getting done for having only one WP but working two jobs, I certainly haven not.

What a lot of expense and hassle having two would be. I would keep that money aside and if, in the very very unlikely situation of getting hassled, bribe them.

I lived in Bangkok for many years. One of those years was with my wife and baby daughter. I lived right in the centre on Sukhumvit road, one of the worst places in town. I had to get out, and now am. Bangkok is no place for a kid. When I go back to Bkk now , I am amazed at how I could have lived in a shithole like that for a decade.

For 40,000 you can get a nice place on the outskirts, where it is still filthy but not so bad. I would recommend somewhere near a expressway, so you can get into central Bkk easily. Where are you going to be working in Bangkok? Where? If you tell, I could offer some help as where to stay.

NN

Suan Plau is not open all hours. Airport is.

Just checking, but are you saying that the immigration at the airport is open 24 hours? I can get a permit at 3am?

I just got my permit yesterday as I was renewing my visa. I thought as I am not leaving until August I couldn't get it, but they advised me that it was ok.

So, if you know you are leaving the country once a year, just get the re-entry permit when you get your extension, takes about 5 min.

i'm sorry neerenram , i know from your previous postings that you had problems with drink and drugs , and thankfully you have overcome them. more power to you.

but had you thought on more , you would not have found yourself in the position you found yourself in in the first place.

addicts of substances , self administered , have NOBODY to blame but themselves.

it IS their fault.

Tax, didn't we have a similar argument before?

Let's agree to disagree.

There are many who say that alcoholism is a genetic "disease", and after drinking that first drink then it is downhill from there.

If you drink 2 bottles of scotch a day then you may become dependant on it, but that does not mean you will be an "alcoholic".

Alcoholism is described by some as a mental illness, including me.

Could you say the same for someone who has clinical depression, just get a grip you are a weak person? Could a strong-willed person with psychizophrenia will their disease away?

I can think of many strong-willed famous people that were alcoholics, afraid I can't name them for annonimity reasons. Most would say that they couldn't get better by themselves. I personally have never known an alcoholic to recover by themself through sheer will-power.

I can assure you that if you would be drinking on top of Antabuse on a regular basis, you would not be writing this post, unless you can do it from 6 feet under.

Antabuse creates extreme severe physical reactions and regular medical follow up is required. After the implant is done, most physicians will suggest to carry a notification with you that indicates you're under Antabuse treatment.

This is true. I don't know about the implants, but I used to take the pills and drank sometimes on them. Some people can die, luckily I didn't. I got a very very severe reaction, but my craving for a hit made me try.

QUOTE(Boon Mee @ 2005-05-30 07:58:56)

What's gotta happen is the guy (or gal) has to hit rock-bottom before there's any improvement.

One of the things I love about Thailand is when a man reckons he's "over the line", he checks himself into the local Wat for an extended stay.

I have a brother-in-law in this situation and he's happier now than he's ever been and doesn't plan to ever leave the Order.

What the ###### of advice is this?? This is a serius post and if you have nothing to say, don't screw the post!!!!

Yes now all the alcoholist in the church becoming monks and all the prostitutes becoming nuns!!! Such qualitity of an advice!!!

Rock bottom??? Was it on a porno DVD???

My Grandpa was alcoholist and I can tell you that there is no rock-bottom at all, the sooner you act the better it is (also for the health).

Only professionals (AA) can do something.

Boon Mee, good advice.

Duke69, there most certainly is a rock bottom for every alcoholic. Unfortunately, death, and instututions are many peoples. I am talking about alcoholics here, NOT heavy drinkers who can take it or leave it.

AA is not professional, but are generally accepted as leading the field in terms of success rate, although very low. I am not speaking for AA, btw.

There is a product available in two forms: pills to take (twice a day) and grafted under the skin, slowly dissolving in about 6 months to a year. Makes you violently ill when even sniffing acohol. In Belgium it is sold unter the name "antabuse". Check with your doctor.

My experience and many of my friends is that in the long term it doesn't work. I used to drink on top of antabuse.

I think your wrong its called "TOUGH LOVE" This lady can not go on like this she has to look after her own future well being and hapiness

That is what it is called. OP, I urge you to look for Al Anon meetings.

I know a Thai lady married to a recovering alcoholic in Denmark. If you want I can give you her telephone number. PM me.

your husband is a selfish man.

he chose the road he now finds himself travelling on.

if he wants to stop he will.

if he doesnt want to stop he wont.

he is responsible for the sorry state he is in.

i dont go much on counselling or sympathy for those addicted to alcohol , drugs or tobacco.

you married a weak man.

if he has will power and can appreciate and accept the support of a wife then he will stop.

This is the kind of attitude that stops people getting better as the think it is THEIR fault. It is NOT. Next time you have diahoerria Taxexile, try using your will-power to stop it.

Have you tried to find out the reasons why he has become alcohol dependent? It could well help. Walking out on him, unless you really have no other course of action, will solve nothing.

This post is nonsense.

There doesn't have to be a reason for someone becoming alcoholic.

Walking out on him could be the best thing for him and you.

I think you would get this advice from Al-Anon. You would be helping him to reach his bottom, therefore being able to accept his problem, and recover.

I agree with Frodo - good post.

There are many AA meetings a day in Copenhagen, if that is where you are from.

Vitamins are pretty expensive and good ones like Centrum are hard to find , that is true .

160 baht for 30 is not expensive, a months supply.

I find Centrum in nearly all chemists in Khon Kaen and Bangkok.

I have been buying vitamins(Centrum) and thought I was getting a good price from a chemist in Bangkok. For a carton of 30, with 264 baht on the label, I got the price down to 200 Baht. I thought that it was because I can speak the lingo reasonably well, and from experience I know that the marked price on anything will be reduced. I bought the same vitamins in a chemists in Khon Kaen Uni and the price 160 baht.

I went back to the one in Bangkok and told them this and they said ok 160 it is.

I always ask for about 10-20% off what they initially say.

The medicines that come loose(paracetamol for example) are often charged at double or triple the cost price, sometimes more.

Do you pay the price on the bottle?

Well folks, this babe sure got set up a nice dandy. Got screwed and twisted and now stuck for 20 ball, unless someone decides to break her out and get her home.

Severe yes, but that is the law there.

How do you know she was set up?