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POSA290103
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Posts posted by POSA290103
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I am not going to give the Gardner any money I have decided.
The moment has passed now and finally I decided I would be betraying myself. There is nothing I hate more than the irresponsible drivers that you see in Thailand (especially those that endanger childrens lives)and that is exactly what caused this mess...extremely irresponsble driving that was endangering a childs life...i cannot in any way endorse or reward that.
I'm glad you arrived at a decision you can live with. There was plenty of feedback for and against helping out. I do hear you about irresponsible drivers. There is virtually no traffic enforcement in the village where I reside. No helmets, 2 yr old children standing on the foot platform holding on to the headlight, 3,4,or 5 teenagers on a motorbike riding down the road...... I could go on but I think you understand what I'm talking about. It drives me nuts just waiting for a accident to happen. I do believe that even a tragedy won't stop this behavior. So sad when all it would take is for some strict law enforcement to curtail this insanity. I don't believe it will end completely until society decides to end it. It has been going on for so long the risk isn't considered. The irresponsible drivers that really annoy me are the ones who come into my lane of traffic and flash their headlights for me to get out of their way. Or, how about the idiots that think a red stop light is only a suggestion to stop. I don't care to remember how many times I stopped at a green light only to see some maniac speed through the intersection against the red. They are the drivers who, I won't say hate but seriously dislike. I save hating for the real special cases. You brought up a great topic that made for a very colorful discussion. Thanks, All the Best!
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Is it legal for a 13 year old to drive a motorcycle here? If not or if she doesn't have a license, aren't you encouraging her to break the laws of this country?
Isn't it our duty as foreigner guests to follow and uphold the laws of our host country?
No. Definitely not.
+1 Indeed it's not.
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It's not your duty to follow the laws of Thailand?
That is the most disrespectful thing I have ever heard. You should get to stepping...
I believe our personal responsibility ends at obeying the laws of our host country. Enforcing those laws or not enforcing them is their domain.
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Eliot Rosewater, do you really believe it’s your duty as a foreigner to instruct Thai’s on how to follow their laws? The thought of me encouraging them to break laws or my duties as a foreigner never crossed my mind, I was there to be compensated for damage to my motorbike.
Do you think it would have been preferable for me to lecture the family on how to follow and uphold the laws of Thailand and accept their money to teach them a lesson? That is just not me, it’s not my duty nor do I feel obligated or qualified to council someone on Thai law and I feel it inappropriate to comment on the way someone else chooses to raise their children, that’s their business.
Sometimes poor Thai children are allowed or forced to grow up too quickly and they make the mistakes of inexperience. What they did is normal behavior in Thailand; it’s a regular experience to see young children driving, it’s the Thai way, that’s life in Thailand. Is it dangerous, are they too young to drive, absolutely but in Thailand they are basically allowed to make those decisions themselves.
I will never know for sure but I hope the girls and the parents learned from that situation; nothing is a better teacher than past experience. The experience could possibly have saved their lives giving them more knowledge about driving in bad weather, and the realization of how costly and dangerous driving can be. Possibly the parents stopped them from driving for a few years, there are so many possible outcomes it’s pointless to speculate, all we can do is hope the best for them.
Eliot Rosewater, do you really believe it’s your duty as a foreigner to instruct Thai’s on how to follow their laws?
No, but I do believe it is your duty not to encourage others to break the law. By paying for the consequences of them breaking the law, you are actively encouraging illegal (and unethical) behavior.
Do you think it would have been preferable for me to lecture the family on how to follow and uphold the laws of Thailand and accept their money to teach them a lesson?
No, you should have just stayed out of it. You could have rejected their offer WITHOUT rewarding them for their dangerous and illegal activity.
The experience could possibly have saved their lives giving them more knowledge about driving in bad weather, and the realization of how costly and dangerous driving can be.
Quite the opposite, you have taught them that they are not responsible for their own actions, and that whitey falang will bail them out of trouble when needed.
Yes, Robert should have enforced the law and demanded Tea Money. Then they would be responsible.
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Ben, If you get a double entry tourist visa and go for the first 30 day extension make sure you check the expiration date on the visa. I got the extension and when I did the border crossing 30 days later I was past the "must use by" date by a few days. I was denied the second half of the visa and had to do a bunch of two week crossings. It was a pain to say the least. Make sure to check the date stamped on the Visa and use the second half before then. By stretching out the extension for the full 30 days I lost 90 days. You shouldn't have any problem getting the Visa in NY. Never saw a waiting line there.
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I would do it, Karma will pay you back big time.
There is too much selfishness in this world as it is, I think we all in Thailand own something back as what a great place to live and enjoy and we are getting it for 20% the cost of our own country.
Wow, what a dumb post. Sorry. Karma? Is that like the the story of the guy in the sky who watches over all of us?
We foreigners owe Thailand exactly FA. We pay to play. Matters not what our currencies buy us here. We don't owe the Thais anything because their country is relatively uncompetitive and poor. Where do you get these strange notions?
Unlike Canada which is uncompetitive, relatively rich and now a yankee teat-sucker....
He's in trouble then, them yankee teats are dry
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If the Benz owner pursues the matter and the case is to be taken to court then you may step in and help. I mean, if you are sure that the money have to be paid then be a good Samaritan.
it goes without saying that the Benz owner will pursue the matter all the way up to the Supreme Court. after all 245 Dollars is a huge amount of money.
Be careful, I think I'm feeling that word "facetious" again.
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The OP would never make such consideration in his home country if the equivalent situation had occurred.
What is it about Thais that encourages us to give them our money? Do we pity them? Is it something aesthetic such as because they are small and brown and cute people? Is it selfish such as wanting to feel and them to know that we are superior? What's the dynamic going on here?
wouldnt help out someone from the same small village for $250?? I would
I don't know what the OP would do. I, on the other hand have given assistance, whether monetary or otherwise to people from many different countries including my homeland. The dynamic is just being human. Not everyone makes the same choices. This forum is a good example of that. The world would be a boring place if we all felt the same.
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One very rainy day, while working out at the gym someone came in with my motor bike plate in their hand attached to part of my fender. There was an accident, three young Thai girls on the way home from school had lost control and slid into two bikes, mine and another. The parents of the children were already there when I came out; it was obvious the Thai’s were not a wealthy family.
I watched as this fowl mouth Brit screamed and yelled profanities at the father over the amount of their settlement. I spoke with the girls (I can speak Thai) they were young 10 to 13 years and just adorable in the school uniforms, they were afraid and crying but not hurt. Finally the father and the Brit agreed on 3,500 baht, the father was literally counting 20 baht notes to settle the arrangement.
Then the father and I spoke, he apologized for his daughters driving and asked me what I thought it would cost to fix the bike. I said I was very happy the girls were not hurt and I understood it was just an accident in bad weather. I looked at the girls and said if they would agree to drive more carefully I had no problem paying for the repairs myself. The girls light up with smiles and all hugged me at the same time the mother and father thanked me, they all gave me a wai and that was that. It made me feel great, best 2,500 baht I ever spent.
What goes around comes around; it’s never a bad thing to help someone when you can, someday someone may do the same for you.
You]re a good man Robert!
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Most likely they are both scamming you. Amazing Gullible Farangs
This is almost certainly true. The penniless gardener and the rich Benz driver got together one afternoon over a beer and thought "what is the best way to scam 8,000 baht out of that stupid farang across the road?" an they came up with this. You have to admire the Thais for their genius.
Does the word facetious apply here? I think some don't get it. Relax
Finally!!! I was beginning to think that TV forum was full of Forrest Gump clones.
You had me laughing my as- off. This kind of stuff helps keep me somewhat sane. Keep it up!
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Most likely they are both scamming you. Amazing Gullible Farangs
This is almost certainly true. The penniless gardener and the rich Benz driver got together one afternoon over a beer and thought "what is the best way to scam 8,000 baht out of that stupid farang across the road?" an they came up with this. You have to admire the Thais for their genius.
Does the word facetious apply here? I think some don't get it. Relax
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Your first instinct was one of human kindness and compassion for another human being, not learned capitalist fascism. Yes he had another kid at 62, but are we to punish him further for being uneducated and misguided?
Of course the Benz owner will take the money, and charge interest on late payments. Most likely he'll borrow from a loan shark and have sleepless nights for the next 3 years. The Benz owner will revel in the lottery of life and assert his higher class position, relishing the opportunity to put the boot in on the poor, brown-skinned gardener.
I've done similar acts of kindness here, and do smaller acts regularly. It doesn't deprive my family, as one poster suggested. No, it rewards us with love, happiness and positivity.
How about this, do you have a PayPal account? We all donate 50 Baht each. It will take 160 people - so easy for ThaiVisa. You then pay the Benz owner directly and tell the gardener it's a present from all of us at ThaiVisa. Who knows, this could be the start of something wonderful. I'm happy to make the first small donation.
Come on guys, 50 Baht! That's not even the cost of a beer!
Let's do it and make this guy's day.
What do you say?
I say you are PATHETIC. You want to pay for some stupid fool who could have killed his own baby. You talk about human kindness and compassion for a human being. Did the fool that could have killed his baby have any kindness / compassion ? Wise up. Let the fools learn the hard way.
Ouch!
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You are like me in a way, I live in a village full of poor, a friend of the family has a daughter 10yrs she was so ill taken to the local little hospital did nothing really for her just said fever, after she came back home after 5 days there I looked at her and took her temp, I said she has got that mossie fever Dengue and I got them in the car and took them to the private hospital in Khon Kaen they diagnosed it within 1 hour after blood tests kept her in for 4 days and she came out A1, 18,000baht I was very happy.
Do what you feel you should do and what will make you happy, go to the Marc lady and make her an offer she will take it.
Right on Shaurene! Your act of kindness will be paying rewards (of the soul) for the rest of your life.
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Your first instinct was one of human kindness and compassion for another human being, not learned capitalist fascism. Yes he had another kid at 62, but are we to punish him further for being uneducated and misguided?
Of course the Benz owner will take the money, and charge interest on late payments. Most likely he'll borrow from a loan shark and have sleepless nights for the next 3 years. The Benz owner will revel in the lottery of life and assert his higher class position, relishing the opportunity to put the boot in on the poor, brown-skinned gardener.
I've done similar acts of kindness here, and do smaller acts regularly. It doesn't deprive my family, as one poster suggested. No, it rewards us with love, happiness and positivity.
How about this, do you have a PayPal account? We all donate 50 Baht each. It will take 160 people - so easy for ThaiVisa. You then pay the Benz owner directly and tell the gardener it's a present from all of us at ThaiVisa. Who knows, this could be the start of something wonderful. I'm happy to make the first small donation.
Come on guys, 50 Baht! That's not even the cost of a beer!
Let's do it and make this guy's day.
What do you say?
Nice thought Kenny but it would never work on this site or any other for that matter. Bowerboy brought this up and it's up for him to decide how he deals with this.
Have we all really become that selfish that we couldn't use a little kindness and our supposed intelligence to collaborate. Well, in that case, post this story on a crowdfunding website and send me the link to donate.
Kenny, It's not about being selfish,unkind or lack of intelligence. bowerboy brought this up and he's looking for a way to resolve his conflicted feelings about what to do. Money doesn't appear to be the issue for him and a group of people donating to this cause dosen't really help him. If asked to donate I would be right there with you.
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Thanks for all the thoughts and comments guys and it does demonstrate the 50/50 tough call nature of the problem.
I will wait for the further update today on the situation and if it is really as bad as it seems for the Gardener then I will give him the money...
I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter if he uses it to pat the actual debt so long as he doesn't spend it on something useless.
bowerboy, If you give him the money it doesn't matter what HE does with it. You stepped up to the plate and did your part. "Feel good" about your act of kindness. As I wrote earlier, "it's about you now" not him. All the best Brother.
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Your first instinct was one of human kindness and compassion for another human being, not learned capitalist fascism. Yes he had another kid at 62, but are we to punish him further for being uneducated and misguided?
Of course the Benz owner will take the money, and charge interest on late payments. Most likely he'll borrow from a loan shark and have sleepless nights for the next 3 years. The Benz owner will revel in the lottery of life and assert his higher class position, relishing the opportunity to put the boot in on the poor, brown-skinned gardener.
I've done similar acts of kindness here, and do smaller acts regularly. It doesn't deprive my family, as one poster suggested. No, it rewards us with love, happiness and positivity.
How about this, do you have a PayPal account? We all donate 50 Baht each. It will take 160 people - so easy for ThaiVisa. You then pay the Benz owner directly and tell the gardener it's a present from all of us at ThaiVisa. Who knows, this could be the start of something wonderful. I'm happy to make the first small donation.
Come on guys, 50 Baht! That's not even the cost of a beer!
Let's do it and make this guy's day.
What do you say?
Nice thought Kenny but it would never work on this site or any other for that matter. Bowerboy brought this up and it's up for him to decide how he deals with this.
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Was in Savannakhet about 10 days ago. It was a "walk in the park". I can't say how it is today but it's probably better than Vientiane and I was there on a Thursday.
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I must say that from a retribution perspective I am thinking that the 8,000THB could cover a lot of my sins over the last 10 years in Thailand!!
On the other hand I don't want the guy thinking that this piece of "good luck" warrants his poor choices in life and then he just carries on being irresponsible.
To be fair I had thought of giving him money in an anonymous way long before this happened becuase its clear they are desperate for money and he is actually a 'salt of the earth" type of guy and always cheerful and friendly despite his lot in life.
For starters, we've all done stupid and foolish things. Surviving these events should teach us something. Not all of us learn the first time around but the memories are always there. I've been helped out of some of the messes I made in life by others. While it made the recovery quicker and less painful, I do remember the consequences of my actions. Hopefully this person learns the lesson this event is teaching him.
It sure does seem to be making you think! That's probably a good thing ( remembering our sins).
The fact that you took the time to put this question out here for comment makes me believe that you want to help. If you decide to give your assistance to this man I'd bet that YOU will get more out of this than him. If the money isn't a big inconvenience to you I say,"why not". Actually, the more difficult it is, the bigger the reward.
I've been scammed and conned not only here but everywhere I've traveled, worked or lived. Experience has kept the damage to a minimum. Too many people focus on the negative and seem to disregard anything good. If I line up all the people I've met in Thailand, the good defintiely outnumber the bad. We have to remember that there are lousy people out there but don't let it stop you from meeting or helping the good ones. This applies to everywhere not just Thailand!
If you want to stay anonymous, you might think about dealing with the car owner directly and ask to keep this between the two of you.
For me the choice is easy and I think you will find it that way also, once you make up your mind. Remember, this isn't about him now; you made it about you. Great topic, Thanks!
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Then this must be probably all correct.But in Thailand one genuine document is often used for a variety of illegal operations.
There was actually this old teak house. Disassembled and equipped with offical documents.
The possible misuse of this authentic document for other illegal timber transports can not be excluded.
For example, how can a normal traffic cop know if the declared wood corresponds with the actual loaded timber?
The tracking systems here are not so sophisticated.
A residual doubt exists.
It's in the Sermon on the Mount.
And the Lord Thaksin saw that his followers were homeless and in need of shelter.
So the Lord went to Tak and blessed an old teak house and told it to go forth and multiply.
The heavens darkened and government officials were struck with awe at the Lord's bountiful generosity.
The house was reborn as 5,000 new teak houses to provide shelter for the Lord Thaksin's shivering followers.
Priceless, I'm laughing as I write this. Keep em coming. I'd go nuts without you guys.
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Stopping plastic burning is easy,pick it up yourself,bag it,and take into town rubbish bins.Pay a few kids to pick up in your soi.Your wife is a different problem,sounds like she is trying to drive you out,patience is needed.After 2 years the gloss has worn off a marriage,now the hard work starts.
Plastic bottles,containers and metal cans are collected and sold in my village. To the locals here it is money. We do have trash pick-up once a week and the amount collected after recycling isn't much. You may be able to resolve the plastic burning problem by explaining recycling to her. You do have to try negotiating some kind of settlement that both of you can live with but in the end you may have to just move on. Unfortunately, that's life. No need to be unhappy when you can change your surroundings. Good Luck Brother, I feel for you!
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Good for you! I'm pleased someone has had the gumption to tell those guys what the reality is. They obviously have no idea about the situation here.100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.
The British and Aussie media are most informative, and I wonder if the US media are doing the same?
The US mainstream press and media are the propaganda wing of Washington. The liberal agenda is the main focus and what they don't report may be more important than what they do report. In my opinion, this event will be spun to make the US look so free and open and for everyone to look down on the oppressive gov't now in charge. Most of the sheeple will agree.
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Another piece of info. After getting to the consulate I heard anyone trying to do a turnaround at the Suvannakhet crossing wasn't permitted to go directly back through Laos immigration.
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I'm in Suvannakhet now. Arrived this morning to apply for a double entry tourist visa. Dropped off my passport along with a Brit and a Sweedish gent I met at the Mukdahan bridge crossing getting non-o visa's. My thai wife is with me and if I can't get through I hope she can. We have a 3 yr old son waiting for us in Pho Chai. I'm waiting to start a job in Oslo sometime in late June and all my work clothes are in our house in Pho Chai. A few days stuck here won't be too much of a incovenience but I'll not have my pick-up on the other side of the bridge if my wife leaves without me. Hopefully, this will get sorted out soon. If I'm stuck here I'll let you guys know tomorrow afternoon. If I get through I'll post a message tomorrow around 6pm. Hang in there guys! I think it's going to be a bumpy ride for a while.
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This thread has prompted a query from myself.
I currently have a double entry from Vientiane, the date of issue is 26th February, the 'enter before' date is 25th May. Is the enter before date the date that is the latest that I can make my first entry into Thailand or the date where I need to be making my second entry?
24th May is the last day you can enter Thailand using that visa.
Maks sure you do your border run before that date on the visa. A couple of years ago I filed for a extension after the first part of my double entry trying ot get the most days out of the visa. When the extension ran out I did a crossing at Mukdahan and upon re-entry was told I could only get 15 days not 2 months. The immigration officer told me that the visa was expired by a few days and no longer valid. Save yourself a lot of trouble and make sure you do a border run BEFORE the expiration date on the visa.
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Unfortunately, What I was told years ago is correct. My friend said,
Unfortunately,
What my my friend told me years ago is still true. He said, "Richard, the only thing these people undersrtand is a Big Stick".As foreigners we will be exploited at every turn. The only thing that saves us is our money. I disagree with premise. Money will take you only so far. If you can't ellicit the respect, friendship or fear from the local population with cash, then you are doomed. There has to be more to it. I have had my share of farang business dealings with these godless creatins and I use that against them. I've learned to put my wife first when dealing with these racist as-holes. I now, take take the famous Thai smile and use it against them because it lacks sincerity.
Not everyone is deserving of this treatment but when a person moves into your house and won't leave the gloves must come off, in my opinion. The good and honest people I have met here for the most part are the most successful Thais. Strange how that is. That principle works worldwide and the rest need to be dealt with in a way they understand. The big stick rule works, it's only a matter of knowing where it applies. You don't need to be a scholar to figure it out. Just the guts to be honest with yourself. You will be a victim if you present as one. It's not about throwing your chest out and proclaiming how powerfu you are. On the contrary, speak softly and carry a big stick.
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Sympathy Or Their Own Fault?
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