KhunHeineken

One was for the length of the post. The other, the first one, was because I posted the long list of ridiculous reasons many members first suggested as to why pensions would never be taxed, yet here we are, facing the very real possibility of pensions being taxed. If you check out your thread, you will see a particular member just wants to carry on the KH bashing on the new thread. He posted there is a $32,000 tax free threshold in Australia. I asked him where he got that from and posted the actual resident tax brackets and link. Straight into the bashing about how I am hijacking the thread etc. No mention of how my link is wrong etc etc. The long post that was deleted I discussed all of the points he raised and never took the p*ss out of him. The condensed post just specifically addressed his main points. He could have just replied with his own links and quotes, but no. It's more personal attacks, flaming, baiting, then trolling. As I said, I have never reported any post, from anyone, ever, and that is being taken advantage of by some.

Seriously? I'm on topic and not hijacking. I've commented on the points in your post. and supplied links as you requested. Taxation, residency, DTA's, percentages, thresholds, enforcement etc are all part of a taxation system that we are all in whether we like it, or not. This thread was launched to discuss such things with the people who wanted to. You are seeking to turn it into another KH bashing thread like the Australian Pension thread. If my post breaches forum rules, a Mod will delete it, but why personally attack me on a thread specifically set up to discuss taxation on pensions? You really have to stop thinking pensioners and pensions are a protected species. Times are changing and taxes are changing. I have posted a link in the other thread how Australia is currently updating all of its DTA's with contracting countries, Thailand being one of them. The Thailand DTA is dated 1989. It can't remain in place forever. At some stage it has to be updated as it's 35 years old. They are currently updating Korea, which was 1981, and from memory, Sweden, which was 1984. I would suggest updating Thailand's is not far away. By all means work with the current DTA, because that's the one in force at the moment, but there's nothing wrong considering, based on more recent DTA's, what the new DTA with Thailand may look like in the near future. Legislation and policies change, so do taxes and governments. Look how quickly Thailand implemented its new tax on foreigners remitting funds. If you think the DTA's with Germany and Iceland are irrelevant, that's your opinion. My opinion is different, and I have given them some consideration and explained why. Put me on ignore or don't read my posts, but why continue to personally attack me because I disagree with your opinions?

The tax is on the money, not the person. That's everyone from a pensioner, to Elon Musk. There are no thresholds to the tax. Eg. everything over 1 million baht a year, or over 100k baht a month. It's on all remitted funds from anyone, who could be from anywhere. The Germany DTA is interesting because it's actually the DTA that sets out the 15% tax, not the non resident tax brackets. The brand new DTA with Iceland is interesting because whilst Article 17 and Article 18 are similar to what is is in the Thailand DTA, it says this on the Treasury page. "The source (paying) country may also tax any pensions paid under the social security legislation or other public schemes organised for social welfare purposes of that country." Make of this what you will. Where did you get $32,00AUD from? Here's the Australian resident tax brackets. Here's the link where they came from. https://www.ato.gov.au/tax-rates-and-codes/tax-rates-australian-residents The pension is taxable, or as you say, "assessable." We know the pension is deemed an income. We know the pension is taxable. We know that living in Thailand we are non residents of Australia for tax purposes. We know the first tier of non resident tax is from $0 to $120,000 and is 32.5% tax. A new DTA with Thailand might be similar to the DTA with Germany and offer pensioners some tax relief from the 32.5% non resident tax. The Germany DTA clearly shows there's no free passes for non resident pensioners. Australia is currently updating all of its DTA's with contracting countries. Here's the link. https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/income-deductions-offsets-and-records/income-you-must-declare/government-payments-and-allowances Taxable pensions, payments and allowances You must include taxable Australian Government pensions, payments and allowances in your tax return. Taxable government payments, pensions and allowances include: age pension In relation to enforcement, they could tax all remitted funds into Thai bank accounts at the highest marginal rate, and then give a refund when the foreigner submits a tax return, or, they could take out tax at the end of the financial year, based on the flow of money through the account. If the balance is too low to pay the tax, they keep what's in the account and close the account and black list the foreigner from opening another account until they have paid their tax bill. That black list could also be sent to immigration, so no extension and you are an overstay until you pay your tax. They have many options available to them, and they don't have to chase anyone for the money. Foreigners will have to go to them. Resident tax rates 2023–24 Taxable income Tax on this income 0 – $18,200 Nil $18,201 – $45,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200

This has been discussed, but it's so easy to circumvent, how long before they tweak it?

I have consistently requested those not interested in discussing the issues of residency and taxation on the pension to block me, but they enjoy trolling, flaming, abusing, and personally attack me, so they don't block me. Maybe you will have better luck with your request.

Crunch some numbers on exchange rates and ATM fees. You may not have to "remit" anything and just run off an Aussie ATM card. It may end up cheaper and easier than entering the Thai tax system. The WISE ATM card is very reasonable. I would not be surprised if a nation wide Hawala banking system industry is created in Thailand. Basically, you send Aussie dollars online to someone with an Australian bank account, and then go to their shop in the city / town you live in Thailand and they give you Thai baht, minus some commission. Migrant workers in Thailand have been doing this for decades because the rates are reasonable and there's no fees. The gold shops might enter into this space, if they are not already. One could also go online and Western Union themselves their own money, but that's probably more costly. Perhaps accountants may offer a service where you remit the funds to them, and they give you Thai baht. Then, there's the 800k baht for the extension. It's possible many will pull that out and use agents. Why not put the tax on the 800k towards an agent and not even have to bother going to the Immigration Office? You will still be a Thai resident for tax purposes, but just have no money in Thailand for the Thai's to tax, which is funny because you are supposed to be able to show 65k coming in a month, or 800k in the bank, to show you can support yourself in Thailand, but TIT. It appears the only way they could truly scoop up tax on all remitted funds is by making the use of visa agent completely illegal, overnight, and that's not going to happen as it's too lucrative, and set to become even more lucrative now, and it goes all the way to the top.

More deflection from you. You said the Australian pnsion is not taxed in Australia so it's not taxed overseas. WRONG. What makes me laugh is then you went and did calculations about how much tax one may have to pay, after you stated there is no tax to pay. How embarrassing. You begged me to "come out and play" but now you don't like the score you are packing up your bat and ball and going home. The other thread has been launched. You can "play" over there and continue trolling and attacking me, yet, you, and others, continue to do it on this thread.

You said sometime ago, the Australian pension is not taxed in Australia, so it is not taxed overseas. A member put forward the double tax treaty and you begged me to "come out and play." I posted two youtube clips with a guys explaining how double taxation treaties work, and debunked the myth that tax was only paid in the lower tax jurisdiction. You disregarded it. I then posted Australia's double tax treaty with Germany in which 15% is paid in the source country, being Australia, which was contrary to Jim Quinn's advice, and yours, and you disregard it. There are none so blind than those who refuse to see.

That's because you are are a predicable one trick pony, Lacessit. Never any content, just trolling.

I encouraged people to block me, rather than troll and personally attack me, but some members couldn't help themselves. I have never reported anyone or any post, and they took advantage of that. This still continues until today. If they were not interested in the biggest issue for Aussie expat pensioners in decades, added to by Thailand's recent taxing of foreigners, then why read the posts about the topic. No one forces you to participate. The main reason you blocked me was because I picked you up on one day you are posting how you were on a services pension, and the next day you were posting how you were on the aged pension, and you can't be on both pensions. Your only way out was to block me to avoid addressing your misleading and untruthful posting.

The main problem is those failing to recognize the Australian aged pension may be taxed in Thailand, and may be taxed in Australia, and possibly taxed in both countries. This leads to Australian pensioners living in Thailand having less pension money per fortnight which is is the most serious issue facing Aussie pensioners in decades, and very much on topic. The DTA with Germany is not "rubbish." Australia is updating its DTA's and will eventually update its treaty with Thailand, and it may look very similar to the treaty with Germany, and that's 15% tax from the source country, being Australia. I posted it as an example of a new treaty. I have since posted the newest DTA, starting 1st January 2024, with Iceland. The treaty has Article 17 and Article 19 that reads similarly to Thailand's Article 18 and Article 19, yet on the front page from treasury it states: "The source (paying) country may also tax any pensions paid under the social security legislation or other public schemes organised for social welfare purposes of that country." If, as per another member's "interpretation" Article 18 and 19 in the Thai tax treaty means pensions are not taxed in Australia if you are living in Thailand, why does the above appear? I was not the one who put forward the DTA with Thailand as tax legislation in which the debate started about pensions being taxed in the source country or otherwise. Another member put that forward and I have since posted some links to consider. By all means start another thread, but I disagree that taxing Aussie pensions, and discussing the Thai and Australian legislation that allows it, and for what percentage, and to which country, is not on topic in the "Australian Aged Pension" thread. It's very much on topic, and the most important topic this thread has ever had.

I just went to the search box at the top of this thread and typed in "portability" and whatever post the word "portability" appears in comes up for the searcher to read. Simple. If Lacessit allowed some latitude, perhaps we could have used his thread to carry on the topic there, but it wasn't to be.

Personal attack, trolling, flaming, abusive, and off topic. (not reported by me) When is the last time you posted any content?

You are flaming, trolling, personally attacking, and off topic again. (not reported by me) You requested the thread closed because you didn't agree with the information being posted on it. It didn't suit your narrative. When's the last time you posted any content?

I believe Australia's tax treaty with Iceland is the most recent treaty entered into with a participating country. It came into effect on the 1st January 2024. https://treasury.gov.au/media-release/iceland-tax-treaty "The source (paying) country may also tax any pensions paid under the social security legislation or other public schemes organised for social welfare purposes of that country." If you open the treaty link, it mentions Article 17 and Article 18, which are related to each other in a similar way to the Thailand treaty of 1989. I'll await your "interpretation" of it and then post my "interpretation" of it. These Articles read a little similarly to the Thailand treaty, which you have posted means Australia can not tax pensioners living overseas, yet, the above quote is on the front page. Remember, you can't just "forget about Article 18." Dated December 2023. Two new participating country tax treaties with Ukraine and Brazil. Updating the tax treaties with New Zealand, Korea, and Sweden. https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/andrew-leigh-2022/media-releases/australia-negotiate-new-tax-treaties-ukraine-and-brazil#:~:text=The Australian Government is expanding,Republic of Korea%2C and Sweden. If you have a look at the below link, Korea's tax treaty was signed in 1982. New Zealand lists multiple ranging from 1960 to 2009, and Sweden's was signed in 1981. Given Australia's unique relationship with New Zealand, if we look at Korea and Sweden being the next to be updated, and they are 1981 and 1982, perhaps it's not too long before they get around to updating Thailand's treaty which is 1989. https://treasury.gov.au/tax-treaties/income-tax-treaties As I have said in the past, and it's just my opinion, I believe the proposed changes to tax residency and the updating of Australia's tax treaties with the 40 or so countries were timed to compliment each other.

Haven't we already seen some change, starting 1st January 2024, by Thailand?

The proposed changes to tax residency, remember them, will have a direct effect on pensions, either through being taxed in Australia, or in Thailand, or both. Why do you think this is not on topic in the pension thread? The double taxation treaty between Australia and Thailand was put forward as a reason why pensioners will not pay tax in the source country, being Australia, and will only pay tax in Thailand, which is not as much as tax in Australia. Why do you think this is not on topic in the pension thread also? Thailand has recently started taxing foreigners. It's still early days to see how hey tweak their taxing of foreigners, but it's possible pensions are up for taxing as well. Is this not on topic in the pension thread? Australia has announced changes to their 90 year old tax residency laws which may or may not impact pensioner living overseas, but will definitely impact part pensioners. Is this not on topic in the pension thread? Aussie pensioners are facing some of the biggest changes in decades, from both Australia, and Thailand, and pensions are on the chopping block, and you don't see any of it as being on topic in the pension thread. There was a thread running "Australian pensioners retired in Thailand" but the OP, Lacessit, requested it be closed.

This is the Australia Pension thread. Ask any question you like. The current topic of debate is the single biggest issue facing Aussie expat pensioners / retirees in decades, but other issues can be discussed. No need to be nasty about it.

Did you consider the capital you are going to put into buying a property, the earnings of said capital, would subsidize the rent, and as a tenant, you have no other fees, taxes, commissions, legals, and maintenance to pay?

Yawn. This myth has already been debunked.

I wonder where you got that idea from. Better that marrying a Thai women.

Unless, of course, called upon as a nightwatchman 20 times, and see out the days play, and take wickets with the ball. Once again, your narrow and negative view on the world.

No, that's the aged pensioners in Germany paying 15% tax under a DTA that is more recent that the DTA Australia has with Thailand, and Australia is updating its DTA's with all countries. All of this is irrelevant, because it's the DTA with Germany, and it's possible the DTA Australia has with Thailand in the near future may very well look the same as the one with Germany. That said, it was YOU who said the pension is NOT TAXED in Australia and therefore CAN NOT be taxed overseas. Now, it appears, you are saying it can, and will be, taxed. Why don't you admit your were WRONG?

Off topic. Trolling. Baiting. Personal attack. Play the post/s, not the poster.

Yes. Trolling is obviously one of them.