KhunHeineken

Here's the link. https://www.financeminister.gov.au/media-release/2015/11/13/new-tax-treaty-signed-germany Here's the relevant section pertaining to pensions. Pensions Pensions are generally taxable only in the country of residence of the recipient. However: Social security benefits first paid after 31 December 2016 may also be taxed by the source country but the source country tax is limited to 15 per cent of the gross payment; Contributory pensions first paid after 31 December 2016 may be taxed in the source country if the pension is attributable to contributions that received certain tax concessions in the source country for at least a 15 year period; War persecution and similar pensions are exempt from taxation; and Government service pensions are taxable only in the country of residence if the individual is also a national of that country – otherwise, the pension is taxable only in the source country. The wording "first paid after 31 December 2016" did catch my eye. However, YOU did state pensions are not taxed in Australia and therefore are not taxed in any other country, so, I welcome your "interpretation" on the above.

I think we all have a fair idea how politicians work, and that is, for themselves, their own benefit, no matter what political party.

Why Confucius? You are the one banging on about "the law, the legislation." BUT, "forget about Article 19." Are the proposed changes to tax residency legislation "negative and misleading?" If so, can you state how so? Also, why no comment on the DTA with Germany? You are the one that stated the Australian aged pension is not taxed in Australia, and not taxed overseas. This is clearly WRONG for Aussie pensioners living in Germany, and probably other countries.

Didn't you state previously the pension is tax free in Australia, so it is also tax free no matter where you live overseas? Now, you are stating the pension can be taxed.

The member is solely focused on the current DTA with Thailand, and has totally disregarded a later DTA with Germany, in which it clearly states pensions will be taxed 15% from the source country, being Australia. (like previously provided) A link also previously provided states Australia is currently updating all of its DTA's with all countries. Once again, also disregarded by the member. Th DTA Australia has with Thailand today, very well may not be the DTA Australia has with Thailand in the near future. The more recent DTA with Germany is very clear, it's 15%, no Article 18 and Article 19, it's 15%. This is something the member refuses to accept ass a real possibility in the near future.

Why "can not" when Thailand gets 10%? Money Number One in Thailand. You know this. Minimal tax is still revenue. Why wouldn't Thailand want it from the millions of foreigners that live in Thailand?

You mean, the DTA that was made in 1989 that is set to change in the near future.

Tax should be looked at as just another bill to pay, and there's nothing illegal about minimizing that bill. Tax minimization is legal, tax avoidance is illegal. More your money around, take advantages of thresholds, low tax jurisdictions, favorable laws etc etc. Thailand now wants a cut of your money. I suggest Australia will not be far behind them, after all, in relation to pensioners, it is the Australian government's money, and none of it is going into the Australian economy, so it makes sense they want at least some of it back.

Aren't certain people paid to look at the negatives? Eg. financial analysts. They are paid to predict the troughs as well, not just the peaks. What about guys working in health and safety. They are paid to look at the worst case scenario for workplace accidents. When it comes to tax, look at the worse, and anything other than that is a bonus.

Link please. Article 18 was subject to the "provisions" of Article 19 and your advice, after banging on, and on, and on, about it's THE LAW, it's THE LEGISLATION, was to say, and I quote, "forget about Article 19." I have stopped researching for now on the effects of the provisions of Article 19 on Article 18 because it's a moot point. My research now has turned to Australia updating its tax treaties with every country. I'm guessing since the treaty with Thailand is 35 years old, it's probably being negotiated as we speak, particularly as there are so many Aussies living in Thailand. I would think Bali / Indonesia would be not far behind, for the same reason. Why would Australia hold off on getting their 15% tax from the thousands of expats that live in these locations, and lose practically ZERO votes in the process? You re holding on to the past to tightly. Change is inevitable, especially when one set of laws is 90 years old, and the other is 35 years old, and they compliment each other. You bang on about how WRONG I am, when I am still researching the "provisions" but how WRONG were you about Germany, and probably other countries. You were completely WRONG when you stated pensions do not pay tax in Australia or any other country. Now you cling on to a 35 year old tax treaty and is set for change in the near future, and for what? Sure, we all continue to live tax free and continue to do what has been working for us, but the times are changing and the ground is shifting under our feet. As I said in a previous post, months ago if I posted "Thailand are going to tax foreigners bringing in their money" I would have been ridiculed in the same way I was for posting about the proposed changes to tax residency. There may have even been a ridiculous long list of hopeful reasons put forward by members as to was Thailand would never do such a thing. Possible a comment such as, "That's only for guys like Thaksin." Yet, here we are, at the point of Thailand taxing foreigners. Look at the Stage 3 tax cuts. You wake up one morning and here's Albo announcing the changes. That's how quick it can happen. We'll wake up one morning and the proposed changes to resident will be passed. We'll wake up one morning and Australia will have a new tax treaty with Thailand, possibly including 15% tax on pensions. As I have previously posted, in my opinion, it's possible the updating of tax treaties is due to the imminent changing to the tax residency laws. What makes you think Australia would be any different? Why would Aussies in Thailand get a free pass when Aussies in Germany don't?

Here's some rocket science for you. You have an ATM from an Australian bank, for when in Australia, and an ATM card from a Thai bank for when in Thailand. If one has to get the money out of Australia for tax / pension purposes,a global bank in Singapore is the best option. Yes, there will be fees to pull out the money in Singapore from an ATM in Thailand, but it will be less than Thai tax, and out of Thailand's tax jurisdiction. I know a guy that flies to Singapore and physically brings it in. Thailand allows up to $20,000USD to be bought in, undeclared. One of his "runs" is the Singapore F1 every year.

There's some government schemes to retrain older Aussies for other occupations. Sign up to some Mickey Mouse 12 month online course and claim the student allowance, or whatever it's called. It's probably only one short assignment a week to submit, which you can do online.

He should tell Centerlink he lost it all to a Thai bar girl. Way more believable scenario.

And let's hope the OP doesn't want to retire in Germany, and probably some other countries, because that makes everything you just said WRONG.

Never have, and never will. It's not just the lost earnings, it's the unstable governance here, fragile economy, and questionable banking system. I transfer in living expenses once a month as needed, and that's it. I'm not going to give a Thai bank a cheap perpetual loan of my money, for a visa that I can buy in one of countless shops across the whole country.

Death and Taxes have never been subject to be positive about. Seriously, they will have every man and his dog jumping on that loophole. How long before it gets closed? At the risk of sounding "negative" the Thai's can do what they want, when they want. You have no rights here. Just look how quickly they implemented taxing foreigners. I would have went the other way and moved money out. Why move money in to a country that is introducing new taxes? If you have to get the money out of Australia, pick a global bank based in Singapore and pull out some living expense with an ATM card. Sure, some ATM fees to pay, but cheaper then paying tax. There will be many tax minimization schemes for foreigners in Thailand being suggested over the next 12 months. The Thai's will be following them and will tweak accordingly to stop the loopholes. Interesting times ahead.

Then, he would have to pay agents fees upon the sale, and there's no guarantee he could sell it for more than he paid for it, and in a timely fashion, not to mention the capital tied up in the property is not earning. If all of the above is greater than paying two years rent, then renting would not be "dead money." I know a guy that saw out the two years in a mobile home, traveling around Australia, some of it with the Thai missus. He bought his accommodation and transport all in one. It may not be for everyone, but he said he enjoyed it and got a good price on the vehicle when he sold it.

Taxation is a depressing subject. Good to see you have put some humor into it.

Aren't you on a service pension????

As someone said, and I agree, it will take them time get it up and running and to tweak it, but for sure the Thai's won't lose an opportunity to turn a baht, and foreigners are easy and lucrative targets. You have placed lot of confidence in the "transfer of savings" being your method of avoiding tax in Thailand. How long before they take that clause out?

I wonder what the options could be. Quote: Worried about the new retirement visa rules? NO HEALTH INSURANCE? NO MONEY IN BANK ? NO INCOME LETTER ? BANK STATEMENTS NOT ACCEPTED ? Don’t have sleepless nights, come and see us to discuss your options Don’t have sleepless nights, come and see us to discuss your options

A member suggested immigration will be involved in the taxing process. As a member said, and it may have been you, it will take them a while to tweak their system, but I can't see it being that easy. If it was that easy, guys would transfer their pension to their son / daughter, and then have them send the same amount and say to Thai authorities, "My family take care me." Once they find out where they are leaking money, they will plug the holes. In the case of expats, that "cash" has to cross boarders, and that's where it becomes traceable, one way, or another, unless you go crypto, and that's for another thread, but a whole new money exchange industry could pop up for expats exchanging crypto for Thai baht, then, that's not traceable. Not jumping the gun. That's a government website stating foreign authorities inform the Australian government of the income of foreign nationals living in Australia. I would suggest such income are pensions. It would be reciprocal, so Australia would then inform foreign authorities of the income Australian nationals are receiving abroad. It's on the website. You have the link. I found that very interesting.

Yes, I am talking about in relation to portability. If there is a 70 day wait for processing, does that mean 70 more days on top of the 2 years? Who knows?

A friend recommended their agent because they had been using them and never had a problem. I went and seen them, then shopped around little, then settled on them. This place is not my agency, but whilst what they are doing is "illegal" because it's encouraged by immigration to be so, their services are certainly no secret. They are all over the internet. Scroll down under "retirement visa. "No Visa - No Fee." https://www.keyvisathailand.com

I am talking about the Thai Tax ID Number. (TIN) It would be easier for the bank to collect the tax on all remitted funds into any, and every account, where a TIN has not been supplied. Same as we do in Australia for earnings on bank accounts where a TFN has not been supplied. Bank computers would do all the heavy lifting, and easier than having immigration handle it. Next.