gerry1011

this survey basically says that people like what she is doing.

they like the rice pledging, the new car program.

they like the minimum wage too.

so much for the conventional wisdom spewed here

"people" as in 1275 people.

huge percentage of the population for sure.

1275/63000000 = 0.00002

Even if it had been done with 10, 20, ... 50 percent of the population, ... quite a few still would not have liked it

I guess quite a few won't like this....

where was the boy from and did he receive 500 baht to attend the rally?

who funded the rally? who fueled the rally? who spawned the terror and

threatened to burn down the city including Siriraj hospital?

which soldier fired the shot and how can they prove it?

how can someone that has no respect for Thai law or it's courts be using

them for his own personal gain at again the expense of the Kingdom?

disgusting what this government will allow in the name of personal gain and profit.

Some people just cannot read the thread can they and if they could they would know the story of the boy who was an orphan with learning disabilites and had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROTESTS just an inncent bystander GUNNED down by the Militarys barrage of fire at a Van and stray bullets killed the poor kid

I am speechless

I wonder who had learning disabilities...

Surely it is a sad event when a 14 year old boy loses his life in a senseless civil uprising.

The question would arise as to whether the army were rightful in firing upon the vehicle in which he was traveling.

I can't imagine any off course vehicle happening to drive through a no-go live fire zone. It would seem that the driver knew that he was running the gauntlet and risking being fired upon.

That being the case,... what role did the boy's parents play in allowing him to be in that truck with such a driver traveling through a live fire zone?

At the end of the day the army riflemen could not have known that a 14 year old boy was inside the vehicle. I would imagine also that Mr Abhisit could not have had any prior knowledge of those facts either!

All of that said,...none of it matters to the witch hunters that are running this Kangaroo Court!

Umf... Well, it seems that the level of reasoning and analysis in the posts on this forum is even worse than what I thought

We are presented a totaly new version of the facts here. Interesting

14 years old... shot in the back...

Big fireworks, magic show, b boy, khom loys... Once again at Chiangrai Hills Stadium.

02 January 2013. From 18.00.

Ans it's free, as usual...

Money can buy everything except Real Love and long time happiness .

... But if you're still waiting to find Real Love and are unhappy, then its better to be rich

Money can buy everything except Real Love and long time happiness .

... But if you're still waiting to find Real Love and are unhappy, then it's better to be rich

Hmm, all sounds a bit trite to me. Not saying this story is a lie, after all every other demo seems to involve attacking some one or other, but this version seems a bit too convenient for the police. On the other hand PS are a bunch of right wing nutters so anything is possible.

ah...

Usualy the "news" given by The Nation is taken as "the absolute truth" by most members of this forum. The Nation is never biased. Always honest reporting... as long as it is against Thaksin, Yingluck, Charlerm, the reds, and everyone else on their side.

This time the reporting seems convenient for the police though... Uhm, yes, there must be something wrong indeed

Or maybe the right wing nutters are... really nuts... Could that be possible?

Well, everything is said.

I let the Cheap Silly Squad take over for another round of short and basic posts "pure TV style".

Have fun

Let's start looking at it and think positive:

1. The cabinet action allows a maximum expense of Bt100 million from the remaining registered capital

2. 10,000 new members in 10 years, paying 2,000,000 entrances fee and 20,000 yearly

3. TAT plans to recruit 1,300 members in the first year of the revived programme (2013) and more later

4. TAT hopes to earn Bt2.016 billion after the first year but the loss remains at Bt 117 million due to the accumulated deficit of Bt1.284 billion.

5. TPC should make a Bt 242 million profit in 2014 and pay off the accumulated deficit by 2017.

6. In 2042 TPC should have Bt 2.280 billion in cash or a profit of Bt 1.095 billion.

Some of these figures seem imaginative. 10,000 new members in 10 years time when k. Thaksin in three business booming years only managed 2,000 (he might see the new, solid plan as a personal insult)? The reference to TAT and TPC and switching frequently seems indicative for 'wishfull' thinking and budget manipulation. TAT spends and TPC earns ? The profit of THB 1.095 billion in 2042 compared with 242 million in 2014 might be less impressive if inflation correction is applied. Etc., etc.

As the plan still seems to lack good solid material to make a business case, it's difficult to end still thinking positive. The Thai EC may be a good offer for some, but that's not enough for a government agency to spent money, even if it is on needy foreigners

Well, you might be right. I also think it is a bit optimistic, but again, nobody knows the details of the new business plan. Let's wait and see.

Regarding the number of members I am also a bit biased, I must admit... I would rather suggest TE to concentrate on a very little number of high quality people in order to bring only high spending people in the country, than to go for bigger numbers. But this is because I personaly would prefer it to stay small (for some reasons). I guess they must have their own calculations. And I understand that there will be 3 levels, so the highest level will probably concentrate on this wealthiest group.

What I don't understand is that they will ask an annual fee of only 20.000b, while I think I remember that one member costs an average of 44.000 per year. But maybe they take into account the economies of scale when there are more members...

We should wait and see what will happen. They said that they will concentrate on Asian countries. It could be good for them. China is enormous and there are loads of very wealthy people there. Let's see.

Rather than only critics (like the useless and silly post above) it would be interesting to exchange ideas on how we would run this program if we had too. It's (only) a brain exercise, of course. Not suitable for everyone.

If I had to work, I would love to work in the TE executive team, it must be a nice challenge

Somehow I get the impression that possible benefits from high spenders may not reflect on the TPC administration. The TAT is more likely to see high spending as part of their mission to promote Thailand. Aiming at rich in this region makes sense with only the number of Chinese millionairs or maybe billionairs rising nicely and expected to only increase. Still the 30,000 rich Chinese k. Thaksin envisioned for the first year (if I remember correctly) didn't materialize.

As I keep saying I can imagine the Elite Card can be a good business deal for some (rich) people, but I wonder about the other side. Didn't I read that one or two years ago those 2500 existing members managed to rake up THB 100 million in golf link fees in one year, to be paid by TPC?

The possible benefits from the high spenders may not reflect on the TPC balance sheet, that's a fact. But this is why I am of the opinion that we must see the bigger picture.

At the same time, I believe that it is not great science to make the TE program breaking even.

Khun Udom, an executive of TAT and president of the board of TE who gave an interview about this matter said that, in 2006, the TE members had contributed to the local economy for something like 3 billion during their visits in the country, and would invest over 21 billion. I can fully believe in these numbers but will refrain from giving examples on how and where TE members spend their money, ... to avoid the "silly squad" to tell me that TE members brag about their wealth...

While these are small compared to other industries or big businesses, it is interesting to keep these numbers in mind. Not all big spenders are TE members, but very few small spenders would enroll in the program.

Of course, 1 million backpackers or visa runners also bring something to the economy... but the potential for future investments or return from that group might be looking grimmer (except for the beer brewers, of course).

As you say, there was a problem with the golf privileges. It was mainly coming from the biggest group of members, the Korean members. They live "next door" and are golfing a lot more than it was anticipated. It has been corrected but since golf is very important in Asia it had to stay I guess (I don't play golf).

I think that TE should focus on making the life of the members even more confortable and easy, in order for them to come to Thailand even more often and spend even more. That is more important to the members than small perks (except golf, of course).

Let's start looking at it and think positive:

1. The cabinet action allows a maximum expense of Bt100 million from the remaining registered capital

2. 10,000 new members in 10 years, paying 2,000,000 entrances fee and 20,000 yearly

3. TAT plans to recruit 1,300 members in the first year of the revived programme (2013) and more later

4. TAT hopes to earn Bt2.016 billion after the first year but the loss remains at Bt 117 million due to the accumulated deficit of Bt1.284 billion.

5. TPC should make a Bt 242 million profit in 2014 and pay off the accumulated deficit by 2017.

6. In 2042 TPC should have Bt 2.280 billion in cash or a profit of Bt 1.095 billion.

Some of these figures seem imaginative. 10,000 new members in 10 years time when k. Thaksin in three business booming years only managed 2,000 (he might see the new, solid plan as a personal insult)? The reference to TAT and TPC and switching frequently seems indicative for 'wishfull' thinking and budget manipulation. TAT spends and TPC earns ? The profit of THB 1.095 billion in 2042 compared with 242 million in 2014 might be less impressive if inflation correction is applied. Etc., etc.

As the plan still seems to lack good solid material to make a business case, it's difficult to end still thinking positive. The Thai EC may be a good offer for some, but that's not enough for a government agency to spent money, even if it is on needy foreigners

Well, you might be right. I also think it is a bit optimistic, but again, nobody knows the details of the new business plan. Let's wait and see.

Regarding the number of members I am also a bit biased, I must admit... I would rather suggest TE to concentrate on a very little number of high quality people in order to bring only high spending people in the country, than to go for bigger numbers. But this is because I personaly would prefer it to stay small (for some reasons). I guess they must have their own calculations. And I understand that there will be 3 levels, so the highest level will probably concentrate on this wealthiest group.

What I don't understand is that they will ask an annual fee of only 20.000b, while I think I remember that one member costs an average of 44.000 per year. But maybe they take into account the economies of scale when there are more members...

We should wait and see what will happen. They said that they will concentrate on Asian countries. It could be good for them. China is enormous and there are loads of very wealthy people there. Let's see.

Rather than only critics (like the useless and silly post above) it would be interesting to exchange ideas on how we would run this program if we had too. It's (only) a brain exercise, of course. Not suitable for everyone.

If I had to work, I would love to work in the TE executive team, it must be a nice challenge

What is it? Is it a credit card? What is it used for, aside from showing off? Sorry, I'm not familiar with the first Elite card either

You're in luck.

There's 423 archived threads that discuss it

http://www.thaivisa....ch&fromsearch=1

And 82 current threads that discuss it

http://www.thaivisa....ch&fromsearch=1

The card was doing fine until the last administration (the Abhisit administration). Since this program had been launched during the Thaksin administration they, of course, decided to that it was a bad and evil program, did everything they could to discredit it, and finally tried to shut it down for that sole reason. Everything associated with the Thaksin name had to be scrapped.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but if you think there were no problems with the Thai Elite Card program between its launch in 2003 until December 17, 2008 when the last administration assumed office, that's a bit difficult to fathom and actually lowers your credibility when some of your other points are reasonable.

There are literally 100's of threads on its shortcomings over that period of time. The actual problems with the Card began with its launch and continued in many different forms over that period of time.

You allegedly have a card. Wonderful. It works for you. Great.

Stick with that and less with the other malarkey.

.

My opinion was the opinion of a TE member. I was mostly responding to the ones who show such a virulent, irrational and disrepectful anger towards the members. I was not discussing about the business plan of TE.

There are always various angles from which we can look at a story.

For example, some people will always avoid to post any opinion on this forum, thinking that the TV members are just a bunch on bitter, envious, uneducated farang losers who can't analyze anything reasonably and will very quickly use bad words to qualify whoever is not of their opinion, putting an end to any interesting thread before it can even be discussed... That is their perspective and we cannot say that they are always wrong...

On the other hand, some other people look at it from another angle and are of the opinion that there must be some rational people on the forum with whom it is possible to discuss without the need of using "words"... I am part of the second group.

With TE it is the same.

Some people come, come again, and again, and again (...), with the same arguments and reasons to support their hate of the program, while they are not even concerned by any aspect of that program.

Yes there has been some mismanagement, like in many other businesses or administrations, the expectations were too ambitious, etc... All these points have been made countless times already, and speaking once more about the same thing is getting somewhat boring.

The other angle of looking at it is that a business plan can be adapted and corrected, the management improved, etc...

I prefer to believe in the second option and trust that things will be quickly improved.

One thing that is always (conveniently) overlooked is the real value of a TE member and the value that the TE program brings to the country.

If a person is wealthy enough to "buy some comfort" by enrolling in the TE program, it should be assumed that he is not the type of persons who will systematically look for the cheapest Leo beer or will prefer to walk back home to avoid being scammed by a tuk tuk.

If that person feels comfortable, welcome, and experiences a hasslefree stay in the country, he will certainly be more inclined to spend his money in Thailand than anywhere else.

The real value of the program is not the entry fee multiplied by the number of members minus the expenses. To measure the whole success of the program one should look at what a member brings and spends in Thailand, rather than elsewhere.

So, why not make an effort to look from a more positive angle (both TV and TE) ?

If you didn't own the TE card already, would you invest the TE card today knowing the history and uncertain future of the card?

I can't fault anyone for buying the card if it offers them value, but I just don't trust the Government to be able to hit the fairly low expectations and maintain this card forever.

Sooner or later, it's got to end.

Wow !!! Nearly 18hrs without a silly or offensive post coming... Someone has achieved something here

The program (It is not a "card", it is a program in which you enroll, you never need to show your card anywhere) was created to attract wealthy people who wanted a comfortable and hasslefree stay in Thailand.

The idea was great and could be even better. I am convinced that the coming silver/gold/platinum levels will bring some pleasant surprises (for the members and future potential members) (who have the money, of course).

The people who enrolled found that the "value" offered by the program was greater than the "value" of 1 or 2 million baht.

But this "value thing" is of course very subjective.

If you are perk seeker the value you see in this program will be very different than the value seen by a wealthy European coming to enjoy his yacht 6 month in a row, an important Hong Kong businessman who visits Bangkok 5 times a month, or a Korean guy (Koreans are the biggest group in the TE members) passionate by golf. This is why there is no need to convince anyone on this forum because TE is not suitable for most TV members anyway, since these are looking for a different type of value.

The card was doing fine until the last administration (the Abhisit administration). Since this program had been launched during the Thaksin administration they, of course, decided to that it was a bad and evil program, did everything they could to discredit it, and finally tried to shut it down for that sole reason. Everything associated with the Thaksin name had to be scrapped.

As you have noticed, it did not happen because it was easier to say than to do... It was a pure political decision taken to discredit the Thaksin camp but very difficult to implement. With the new administration everything is back on track.

The funny thing is that the nature of the TE members (whichever country they come from) would naturaly make them have more in common with the Democrats and the local "elite" than the Thaksin camp. Still, its the Democrats who tried to destroy the program.

One of the reasons this topic is always "hot" on this forum is that everybody knows that under the Thaksin administration there was a sort of new guideline saying "get rid of the pensioners and backpackers / bring the wealthy ones instead". This was maybe too obvious. They should have worked on both groups...

You say that the card cannot last forever, and you are most probably right.

But we are also most probably not agreing on this point because of the same reason.

In my opinion, the more the economy of Thailand improves, the least they will need to try to attract "wealth from abroad".

So, we can assume that in a few years, if the economy improves, the price to enroll in TE will be more expensive (and it should, of course), till the day Thailand reaches the point where it does not need such a program anymore.

Maybe this is why they will make the new memberships for only 20 years. It gives them a better idea on when the program could stop by itself, without the need of shutting it down.

But there is still much time before we get to that point. In my personal opinion, of course, and I respect the opinion of others (who too many times are not as respectful...).

2 million for a gold card nothing... I wish i had thought of the idea.

I wonder if this reply is short enough...

Not too bad, but you forgot the usual offensive comment to make your post "pure TV style"

But thanks for your contribution anyway

You sound very happy being a TE member, which is great.

Personally I have very little knowledge about being a member, could you possibly tell me what you think are the greatest benefits of being a member ?. Also do you think it is value for money ?.

Thanks I am genuinely interested

You can search for previous posts about this matter and will find the reasons why most members, myself included, are happy about the program. All members had their own reasons for enrolling in this program. The reasons vary a lot between Western members and Asian members (the majority of the members are from Asia).

If I explain you here why it is good value for money for a "certain kind of people", we will have to go through one more round of the same useless and childish comments coming from the same posters who don't know anything about the subject.

So, I prefer to save everybody's time... and keep it short

2 million for a gold card nothing... I wish i had thought of the idea.

I wonder if this reply is short enough...

Not too bad, but you forgot the usual offensive comment to make your post "pure TV style"

But thanks for your contribution anyway

My renewable 1-year visa costs me 1,900 Baht each year, and I pay 3,900 Baht for a multiple re-entry permit. Why would I want to shell out 2 million PLUS 20,000 Baht in annual membership fees? What's the incentive? Can I own land? No. Do I get tax benefits? No. Can I enter national parks free of charge? No. Do I get permanent residency? No. Will the silly 9-day reporting be scrapped? No. Oh yes, they're saying that scam card will entitle me to meet with one or another high-ranking official once a year. To discuss what? As if I would care...

You are obviously not the type of guy who would go for such a product.

You have smartly analyzed the pros and cons of this program and you found out that it did not offer you the benefits you would expect for "such a large amount of money".

You have been absolutely right to do so, it certainly does not offer any advantage to your present lifestyle, compared to the "huge" sum needed to enroll in the program.

You do not mind to queue for a visa, you don't mind a bit of hassle, if you are not old enough you take the opportunity of a visa run to make some cheap shopping or tourism, you don't play golf, you don't need anyone to wait for you at the plane to rush you out of the airport, you, anyway, don't travel enough, or far enough, to even need it, you can very easily find a public taxi and never wanted or even needed a more confortable transfer, you have a simple life so will never need to meet any high ranking official anyway, ... This program does not offer anything interesting for someone like you.

You are very happy like that and don't see the point of spending lots of money just for a bit more comfort. You are absolutely right, this is your lifestyle, it makes you perfectly happy and you make only smart choices that fit your lifstyle, the same as everyone else.

I don't think that any TE member would throw you a stone because you went for the cheap option (convenient and perfectly suited to you).

As a smart, respectful and sensible person, you certainly do not care at all where the other people throw their money in... Up to them !

As you would care other people's lives...

You just passed by this thread by coincidence and quickly posted your opinion, without any sentiment of envy, certainly not anger towards the people who have another lifestyle. For sure you don't care. Everybody has its own life.

I was 36 when I joined the TE program because it suited my lifestyle. You might not believe it, but I am also very happy about my lifestyle and TE helped to make it even more confortable

Happiness is not linked to money. If you are happy with your 1900b option, would you still allow other people to be happy with another option?

Of course you would, you are a nice guy for sure

I see what you did there.

Well done Sir. I like your style.

A+.

Thanks

But I'm afraid that this style is already too sophisticated for the Thaivisa members interested in (should say pissed off by) the Thailand Elite topic.

Short and basic statements, with some insulting words or comments, are more in trend here (The previous post is a great example )

Anyway, be happy

I love TE !

I've got considerably more money the most of you - HATE ME

No I have more than you, please hate ME !!!

Brag brag brag... same same same... brag brag brag... same same same...

You really have nothing to do better of your life than to come and spit the same thing over and over (and over) (and over) again?

Guys, TE was there, is still there and will still be there... Like it or not, whatever you say, think, or fantasize, it will still be there

Brag brag brag brag... Go on guys ! Don't lose the spirit

Everything is going to be fine with TE anyway, and in 10 years you will still be Bragging...

There is indeed an outright bitterness and envy toward the wealthy people in general on this forum, and towards the wealthy farangs who "dare" to make any mention of their wealth in particular.

TV is not a place where you will find many wealthy people coming to lose their time. But there are some... (We speak about real wealth, right?)

So, avoid mentioning how big was the last diamond you bought to your wife and how much bonus you will give to the grooms taking care of your horses for Christmas. It could be perceived as disrespectful on this forum

Why is that? There must be several reasons. Maybe the "socialist fashion" in the western world at the moment, the overall quality of the farangs ending up Thailand, the lack of opportunities for farangs to make good revenues in Thailand, ... Well there are many more reasons for sure.

If this farang envy and bitterness was only restricted to this forum it would be ok, but the problem is that it is also noticeable outside...

You will sometimes find yourself in a group of people who will think you are a nice guy, who will even "like" you... until they know where you live, the number of cars you own and their brands, the size of your yacht, the price of your watch, the amount of the very generous donation you made to a charity, the price of your first class ticket back home 4 times a year, or whatever...

As you tell us, you will certainly show respect to these new "farang friends" as you always do with everyone, go with them for dinner, maybe invite them to your house, treat them as if everybody was on the same level, offer them an imported beer instead of a cheap local bottle... all those things that you would do as you have been always doing in your country.

However, in many cases you will find out that the efforts you made to make your new friends comfortable with you were useless.

Once you turn your back they will start to criticize you anyway, telling that you most probably borrowed to buy your house, saying that only idiots need a condo on the 60th floor with a private swimming pool in Bangkok, commenting on how stupid you look in your expensive sports cars, asserting that you probably never owned your business, adding that you only want to show off by spending money in front of everyone, etc...

All the comments you can read on here

Important tip: Never say on this forum that you are a Thailand Elite member and that you happily spent 1 million to become member. They don't like it in here

So, at the end you will start to avoid the foreign community, except a very limited number of farangs who are; 1) on the same level as you, or 2) are (same as you) among the ones who can make friends with anyone, from any level of the society, without feeling envious.

There are some farangs like that, don't worry... but it takes some time to meet them

Some even realize, after they found out about your wealth, that "finally you are not that bad for a rich guy" .

On the other side, you will rarely, or probably never have bad feelings with the Thai people. For Asians the wealthy people are the examples of what they want to be in the future, if they are not yet at that level. If they are already wealthy they will be interested to know how you made up your wealth, what family you come from, what business your have created, which university did you go to, etc...

And the cherry on the cake : If you speak Thai you will earn even more respect from them (as well as respect from every other Thai people, regardless of their wealth, of course).

Thailand is a very nice place to be for the wealthy people to live in, and even better if you speak Thai and can associate with the Thai high society.

This does not mean that you cannot be very good friend with the poorest of the poor. As long as there is respect there can be friendship. But it must come from both sides...

One last tip : When you write a post that you know will be controversial, click "post" and then do not come back to read the critics. Just mention your opinion and move on !