Artist

"The slightly patronising colonial phrase "a Thai with an education" is key here.

The slightly illiterate phrase "Al the red shirts have to do is get a real education" is bordering on offensive."

That is what i was saying education is the key.

You would rather lie than border on offensive. That is a large part of the problem in Thailand cover it up it dosen't matter if it looks bad just make it look good.

At least a educated extremist knows what he is talking about.

An ignorant one dosen't. He just causes problems for the money in hand and promise of you will be rich in 6 months. Doe's that not tell you some thing about him when the 6 months comes and he is still in debt to the loan shark who loaned him the money for his smart phone. And still suporting the man who promised him the money.

"The standard of education in rural Issan is appalling."

And just where do you think the PT gets there armed militia from you know the ones wearing red shirts

"Look at what happened when the poor rural majority became empowered in the countries around Thailand."

Well I could be wrong but I don't think Pol Pot was the poor rural majority. But he sure turned all of Cambodia in to the poor rural majority.

Not sure if smart phones are even good. look at the cost of them. I would be willing to bet that there is quite a few of them in the 2,000 areas that have schools with no electricity and how many people had to go to the money lenders to get one. I have a stupid phone it is 6 years old and can still call and receive calls on it.

Are you confusing smart phones with those cheap tablets that all students were supposed to receive? Not that I believe they will and of the ones that do get delivered they are going to just a few of what ever passes for first grade here. And you can bet your bottom baht they are not schools in Issan.

I am not making myself clear. Educating the "poor rural majority" won't turn them all into comfortable middle-class Thais happy with the status quo, it will simply make them a politically more effective "poor rural majority"

Pol Pot was a school teacher and all socialist revolutions have been led by the educated intelligentsia.

In a matter of a few years the people in rural Thailand went from no phones and no communications to almost universal mobile phones. So instead of travelling by bus for a day to find out how aunty was, or waiting for a letter from Hong Kong from your daughter, you could be in touch with everybody you wanted to instantly at an affordable cost (thanks somewhat to Thaksin).

That technological change was revolutionary and unbelievably quick.

We are on the brink of an even bigger change as dumb mobiles will inevitably be replaced by smart phones. Suddenly all those poor ignorant Thais you want to educate will have access to all the world's knowledge by talking to their phone and asking Google.

The role of Facebook and Twitter in the Arab Spring uprisings, with Wiki-leaks as a catalyst, has been unexpected and astounding

When everybody in Thailand has unlimited and instantaneous access to information and current affairs, the impact will be wonderful, exciting, dangerous and unknown. Its coming and within the decade. Better get ready.

Education is important but access to information is supreme

With a education you would know that education is the key to many of Thailand's problems. And yes it cost money but not as much as your supposed government is putting in it's pocket. It will take time but first it has to be started. If your paymaster had started when he was in power Thailand would be at the beginning of a new world. But he didn't so here we are where we were when he first had a chance and chose instead to change laws so he wouldn't have to pay tax and push for a airport on unsuitable land. O what do you know his wife owned a lot of it.

No I am not rich but I am educated try it. You might find out it is OK

Knowledge without understanding has its limitations hello dolly as you so amply illustrate

No need of confusion.

Al the red shirts have to do is get a real education.

They will soon realize that the people they follow now have no use for them other than as a weapon.

Education = problem solved no more red shirts.

Unless they are corrupt and see a chance to make a illegal baht there.

Or possibly see a chance to make a lot of money just by spouting nonsense.

Are you expecting to make a lot of money then?

Artist. Do you disagree with what dolly says that a Thai with an education and no agenda will see through the Shinwatra clans deads.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

The slightly patronising colonial phrase "a Thai with an education" is key here. The slightly illiterate phrase "Al the red shirts have to do is get a real education" is bordering on offensive.

"A Thai with an education" is more likely to come from the middle-class or rich segment of society in the first place and consequently more likely to see through the Shinawatra clan's deeds or did you mean deads?

I don't think that education makes people more rational or wise. You are just as likely to be an educated extremist as an ignorant one.

The standard of education in rural Issan is appalling, my wife was working on a construction site in Bangkok at the age of 12 and she is intellectually capable of achieving a first class degree.

In the short to medium term people will learn by experience, and its likely to be a painful experience. Look at what happened when the poor rural majority became empowered in the countries around Thailand.

In the medium to long term, smart phones will be Thailand's salvation. (I think....) and education.

No need of confusion.

Al the red shirts have to do is get a real education.

They will soon realize that the people they follow now have no use for them other than as a weapon.

Education = problem solved no more red shirts.

Unless they are corrupt and see a chance to make a illegal baht there.

Or possibly see a chance to make a lot of money just by spouting nonsense.

Are you expecting to make a lot of money then?

The problem with the Democrats and their elite backers is simple.

Upon realizing their political savvy was severely lacking, compared to the slick TRT machine, an evil plan was hatched deep in the recesses of the army barracks.

How dare this man empower the people! They must happily stay in the rice fields and send us their sons and daughters in return for a pittance. How dare he continue to reduce the military budget as a percentage of GDP year after year. We want our air balloons! For how else can we maintain our pervertedly privileged positions. Hence the systematic vilification of the most successful and effective PM the country has ever experienced began. This was their only chance, as they themselves were not bereft of ideas to help the masses , but in fact selfishly unwilling to grant them. So the witch hunt began. What could they pin on this man? While all embarrassingly standing squarely in front of their own amassed wealth they collective raised their fingers and pointed. LOOK, he is doing what every other Thai businessman is doing! LOOK, he is following the advice of his tax lawyers and accountants! LOOK, he is following current tax laws when selling his own company shares! LOOK, inevitably some government decisions are inadvertently affecting his massive business interests! And then they released their big weapon, like a submarine in shallow water, LOOK he is trying to bring down the monarchy and turn this blessed kingdom into a republic!

And so it began, and to this day we are still hearing the whinging, whining losers bleat on and on about the same old fictitious fantasy as the people grow more and more tired of hearing it.

There is no next episode, just tedious reruns of the old one.

Don't be ridiculous, Thaksin only spoke about helping the poor but didn't do anything. He was corrupt and he let 3000 people being killed. He did not follow the laws he made some laws specific for his purpose. Some he even reversed after his business. And for the rumor that he want to bring down the monarchy....his own son told when drunk, that he is the son from the future first president of Thailand.

HIS SON, not the democrats told that.

This whole debate is full of half-truths and misunderstandings. Thaksin did a lot for the poor and the people in Issan love him for good reason. They see him as providing the rural majority with power after being exploited for decades (centuries?) by the rich and powerful in Bangkok. NE Thailand was the last bastion of Communism in Thailand for good reason, they have been exploited by endemic corruption.

Of course Thaksin wants a Republic with himself as President, increasingly I hear anti King rumours which suggested to me that the people of Issan also want a Republic. This is very depressing to me as the people's love of the King has always been one of the beautiful aspects of this country. Of course the people don't understand that they would be simply replacing one power structure with another and life would not get better. For most people life is actually pretty good anyway.

To reach complete power, Thaksin had to dispense with a few democratic controls. He systematically used his wealth and power to take over independent news media. He actually sacked the Auditor General and replaced her with his own, who I assume would not have investigated some areas too carefully. The extraordinary thing was that the King had to approve the new Auditor General so Thaksin sent the documents to the King but as far as I know never got them back. So there were two Auditors General neither of whom was legally constituted.

There is a strong parallel for Thaksin not long ago and not far away. Marcos in the Philippines came in as a popular reforming President who helped reduce the power of the rich and improve the lot of the poor. Unfortunately he stayed too long, far too long.

Both sides are right, I can't see a lasting compromise. There are no easy solutions. I cry for you Thailand.

I think you are all being a bit hard on the police. Its easy to joke about their incompetence but think about what you would do in the situation. You have Red-Shirts all over the place, guarding the hotel room doors and in numbers outside. Some of them may be armed. You can't go in an shoot them so how do you get in to make an arrest? Tear gas? Think of the chaos that would cause. Helicopters? What good would they do? By the time you have got through the door he is going out of the window. I don't see how you can arrest somebody surrounded by thousands of demonstrators without overwhelming numbers of police/army and using force with the potential of another bloody mess and who would that benefit? The Government? The Army or Police? The more chaos there is and bloodshed the more likely it is that the Red Shirts will succeed.

Gambling is illegal in Thailand. In the village I live in they are always gambling. During Songkran nearly everybody gambles from small children through to aged adults and they gamble all day and all night. Prostitution is illegal in Thailand - need I say more? Drinking under the age of 20 - its a joke. A bad law that is not enforced and nobody respects is worse than no law at all.

post='658410']

See Obtaining Police Clearances from different countries

Anybody from DIMIA there?

This is a real Catch 22.

The DIMIA documentation quoted above says "Provide passport or Hong Kong ID card, original and photocopy of the referral letter from the DIMIA office processing your application. "

The Australian Visa Processing Centre in Bangkok said (when we visited them today) that the Hong Kong Police Clearance is nothing to do with them and they could not give us a referral letter. They claimed that they had never processed anybody who had worked in Hong Kong.

We have the necessary fingerprinting etc to get a Police Clearance from Hong Kong but how do we get a refferal from DIMIA?

I will try to contact the Embassy for advice on this tomorrow but last time I tried all I could get was an answering service to which nobody responded.

HELP PLEASE!!!!

Jeremy

It probably does depend on the contract you signed with the finance company.

When I bought my Toyota, the finance guy declined to give me a buyout price at 1 and 2 years but said it would be a little more than the remaining balance implying a small prepayment penalty. Who knows what they will say if I do need to buyout early ?

Talk to a Thai lawyer as Thai law is pretty good for the consumer in many cases.

As you know, they (the finance co) will often try to bluff you but then cave in if you press them, especially if you have a lawyer. Thais hate confrontation. Don't give up and you will likely get a fair deal in the end unless the contract says differently and is not in violation of Thai consumer laws.

BTW, for those who do not know, interest is paid on the FULL balance for the entire loan. So you pay about twice the interest that you would pay in the West.

Thanks for the good advice paulfr. I think I will get a lawyer to look at it. Anybody know a good one in the Udon Thani/Nong Khai area?

I didn't realise that the interest was not on a declining balance. I guess thats good for me if I can get out of paying the remaining interest.

Just to clarify a few points. We paid a deposit on the pickup of about 250,000 baht and according to my calculations the interest component of the 60 monthly payments is about 100,000 baht.

The finance was organised by the Isuzu dealer and as far as I can make out it was with a separate finance company. It was all done in Thai (or Lao) with a visit of 4 people representing the dealer and the finance company coming to the village to spend a couple of hours of animated discussion with family, friends and neighbours combined with much copying of id cards and signing many documents.

As always in such matters when I tried to find out what the deal was I was told not to worry as "this is the way we do it in Thailand" which usually means that my wife and her family don't have a clue how it works.

Combining the deposit with the payments over one year we have an equity in the vehicle of about 375,000 baht. I estimate the buyout figure assuming we pay the outstanding 48 monthly payments to be about 520,000 baht.

The pickup cost nearly 800,000 baht. I don't know what its current value is but assuming it dropped 20% in the first year it would be worth 640,000 baht so buying out the finance and selling it would net us about 120,000 baht, a lot better than the 40,000 baht offered by the finance company.

The problem I have is that I am not sure if we really have to pay the full outstanding payments or perhaps we can get away with just the interest to date. In my experience my wife and her family will take the initial advice from the finance company without questioning it as they are really country people dealing with big city slickers and they would not want to lose face. Whereas being a farang who has no face I would dig into it to see if I could get a better deal. However when I try to do this I run into the inevitable communication difficulties and the 'not done in Thailand' stone wall.

From the replies so far it looks as though I will have to pay the full interest and I guess it depends on the contract. I don't really want to go to the expense of getting an english speaking lawyer to look at it but maybe that's the only way I can be sure of my liability.

See Obtaining Police Clearances from different countries

Thanks for the link Vinny but its not a lot of help as it only gives instructions for Hong Kong residents. I do have the instructions for non residents (see below).

I would still be very interested in anybody's actual experiences of the process as it is likely to be the main cause of a delay in getting a spouse visa.

QUOTE

Hong Kong (Special Administrative Region)

Relevant document – 'Certificate of No Criminal Conviction' (CNCC)

Apply to Hong Kong (SAR) Police Identification Bureau,

Residents in person to the CNCC Office

Non-residents by mail to

The Commissioner of Police

(Attn: OIC CNCC)

At B1 Floor, Trade Department Tower

700 Nathan Road

Kowloon

Provide passport or Hong Kong ID card, original and photocopy of the referral letter from the DIMIA office processing your application. Fingerprints: Residents taken at interview; Non-Residents must obtain and send fingerprints certified (name, rank, full name of agency and date) by the police agency of the country of residence.

Note: Residents: Where an applicant is seeking to obtain 'Certificates of no criminal conviction' for him/herself, a spouse and/or

children, original proof of the applicant's marriage and the children's relationship to the applicant (marriage and birth certificates)

must be provided. In the case of a stepchild, the original and a photocopy of the relevant marriage certificate and documentary proof of the step-child's relationship to the applicant must be provided. The original documents will be returned.

Fee payable.

Form Residents obtained at a pre-arranged interview with HKP.

Non-residents obtained by mail.

CLOSE QUOTE

I suggest you get an email for someone here and fire them off this question and get an exact answer. Then print the email and keep it on file. If you want someone to contact, I can get you an email....after all I am a dima spy but really I can, if you want.

Thanks for your very informative answer N&M. I will contact you separately re a contact email address.

Jeremy

As I understand it, when you apply for a spouse visa to Australia the form allows you to apply for a temporary visa and a permanent visa but you will not be assessed for a permanent visa until you have resided in Australia for two years.

There are some exceptions to this and if you have been in the relationship for more than two years and have a dependant child as a result of the relationship the two year qualifying may be waived.

We are in this category and I just wondered if anybody has experience of how this waiver operates any difficulties we might experience or tips we can learn from.

Thanks

Jeremy

My Thai partner is applying for an Australian Spouse visa and needs a police clearance from Hong Kong as she previously worked there.

Anybody any experience with this? How long does it take? Any problems we might encounter or tips you can give us?

Thanks

Jeremy

My thai girlfriend and I have been in a de facto relationship for nearly 3 years. We hav a 18 month old son who was born in Thailand but has been granted Australian citizenship. I am an Australian citizen. We are currently in Australia but due to return in a few days before my partner's visitors visa expires.

When we get back to Thailand we plan to apply for a spouse visa to my partner so that we can return to Australia to marry and live together.

As I understand it we should not have major problems getting the visa as we have a well established de facto relationship which has already been recognised by the Australian Government, however there is an issue that I would love to get some advice on.

I am currently applying for a divorce from my ex-wife. There are no outstanding issues to prevent the divorce but it will be some time before it is finalised. Reading the visa application documents I cannot see any reference to a requirement that the sponsor for the spouse visa should be divorced from a previous marriage. It sounds crazy but Australian law recognised de facto relationships almost identically to marriages. While to get married when already married would be bigomy, there is nothing to stop you having a legally recognised de facto relationship while you are still married to somebody else.

Does anybody know if my girlfriend can apply for a spouse visa before my divorce is finalised?

Thanks

Jeremy

We are planning to move our household effects from a village near Udon Thani and Nong Khai to Australia. Does anybody know a good agent to assist us with packing and shipping, located in the Udon Thani or Nong Khai area?

Thanks

Jeremy

An alterntive to selling out Isuzu Highlander pickup that I referred to in my previous post would be to import it into Australia.

I have made some enquiries in Australia about this as the vehicle is sold in Australia as a Holen Rodeo but so far I have been advised that the cost is prohibitive partly due to high import duties.

Does anybody have any information on this?

Thanks

Jeremy

We own an Isuzu Highlander 4 door automatic pickup near Udon Thani which we bought a year ago on a 5 year finance deal from the Isuzu dealer, in my wife's name. Now we have to return to Australia to care for my elderly parents.

I have been trying to find out how we go about selling a car which is under finance but the contract is in Thai and its very difficult to get clear information. I have been told that the dealer will take the car back and pay us 40,000 baht which is a fraction of what we have paid for it.

In Australia I would simply pay off the outstanding amount from the finance company and then sell the vehicle. Usually in Australia I would only have to pay the interest incurred to date if I did this, but I have been told that if we want to pay out the finance here will have to pay the interest for the whole five years. Can anybody tell me whether this is likely to be correct?

Any advice on the best way to sell the vehicle would be great.

The insurance is due on the pickup and I am wondering whether I can pay for less than a full year or get a refund when I dispose of the vehicle. Anybody know?

Thanks for your help

Jeremy

I just asked yesterday, and was told "anything from 6 months to 2 years..."

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I was told the same thing when we applied on May 11. We were contacted immediately when they required extra documents, so you can be sure that they are working on your case. But they don't seem to appreciate you calling just to ask "how's my application going?".

In our case, my Thai wife is pregnant, so we're awaiting the birth of our child before we get the medical and X-ray done. So far as I can tell, that is the only hold-up for us.

Does anyone know if they will ask us to do a DNA test on the our daughter?

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bisou - I am assuming you are from australia.

Once the baby is born you can apply for Citizenship By Descent. It is a fairly straightforward process. You will need to provide birth cirtificate (can't remember if needs to be translated into english), and proof that you and the mother were together when the child was conceived. Passports stamps and the such. If you have any ultrasound photos or doctors statments showing age of foetus then this will help. It might also help to be there for the birth and have your name on the birth cirtificate.

Personally we had a caesarian birth 2 weeks early and so had to show early ultrasound images stating the age of foetus and then looking at the dates we were together from that. The embassy says that they only use DNA testing as a last resort . When I looked at costing (with the recommended clinic from embassy) it was going to cost about $AU 950. So try and avoid it if you can.

Our fiancee visa was held up in waiting until a decision on the citizenship of child was decided. All looks ok now. Just a long wait.

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We applied for Citizenship by Descent for our son, now 9 months old. We did need to have his birth certificate translated into english, plus copies of my passport pages showing entry and exit stamps, plus my Australian Citizenship Certificate etc. The guy at the Embassy was very helpful and gave me his email address.

After about 6 weeks I contacted him by email and he replied saying it was still in progress. After 2 months I tried again and his email bounced. I left messages on the Embassy phone system for him to ring me back but never got any replies.

Then a few weeks later we got a letter from them saying that they needed proof of our relationship and that I was the father of our son and that DNA woudl be a good way to establish this. My name is on the birth certificate and my passport stamps prove that I was in Thailand at the time of conception and delivery but apparently this was not enough.

I wrote a long document in Word giving the details of how we had met and lived together over the past two years. I included photos of us together and names and phone numbers of people we knew during that time. I printed this out and sent it to the Embassy.

From then on it was straight forward. Within a week or two they sent us the Certificate.

Recently I emailed the Emabassy about getting a passport for our son and I have to say that the person who replied was very helpful and responsive in a series of emails exchanged over two days.

I dont know about UK but in Australia if you pay for your air fare with a Gold Visa Card you get 3 months free travel insurance including Health Insurance. I have used this service and found it to be very good but I guess it varies from bank to bank. All travel agents in Australia are only too happy to sell you health insurance for your trip for a lot less than 500 pounds.