likerdup1

Supposedly, if you are a real, hard core alcoholic. You also need certain drugs to overcome your cravings. If not, you could die. Like cold turkey with drugs.

Did you guys have to take medication before/during or after your first few AA meetings? I cannot believe that you just walked into an AA meeting without other help.

Antabus, anti depressants etc. come to mind. I went to a clinic here, not affiliated to AA, and they offered me a whole cocktail of drugs to help calm me, sleep, eat. Archaic is not the word. Two years before I had just, on my own, got over cocaine and did not want any of that in my system.

And the people i saw there were like zombies, eyes out on pinheads, bad skin, smelly.

And the counsellours - what?!! They did not listen at all.

I never went back.

Mobi knows about that horrific experience..

The main thing to do is consult a good doctor first when attempting to address any chemical dependency, especially if the drug/alcohol etc. is used daily. I have heard that some doctors may prescribe drugs for a chronic daily user of say heroin or alcohol as witdrawl symptoms can actually kill. The main thing is to get th drugs and alcohol out of the system, so whatever the doctor / detox prescribes as the best course would be the thing to do.

Consulting a reputable detox clinic is a good idea IMHO

Myself I was a binge user so detox for me was not that difficult. It was staying stopped that was difficult. I would put together 2 weeks of sobriety without to much trouble, but found it very difficult to quit for more than a month.

For addicts / alcoholics who use daily or even a few times a week consulting a doctor is recommended. The AA book recommends hospitalization for an chronic daily drinker.

My personal opinion is that many 28 day "rehab" programs are not really necessary. A good 7-10 day detox is fine and then after the booze and drugs are out find a good AA meeting or group that focuses in on doing the steps. Most 28 day rehabs I have heard about are really just expensive introductions to AA. Call any of them and ask what they recommend after treatment and they will say, "continue to go to AA, call your sponsor, go to plenty of meetings etc.." They do provide detox, then counseling (which in my experience was not that effective ) AA meetings on site, exercise, good food during the stay etc.. and a sheltered enviornment to detox and adjust. But I have heard they can be as much as $20,000 US or more.

See a doctor, check into a reputable detox to dry out. Then find a wholesome Big Book reading AA group where they talk about the solution, how to connect with a Higher Power of your own understanding. Get to plenty of meetings and ask for help on how to take the steps.

It worked for me, 18+ years and I was a homeless, in debt, no job, sleeping in his car alcoholic and cocaine user.

I added up Mobi's anti AA text in post #270 and it comes to 988 words. Then I added up Mobi's positive AA text, 52 words.

In Mobi's positive AA text he mentions going to meetings and working the steps briefly but in reviewing his anti AA text he mentions no methods of staying sober.

In Mobi's 988 words of anti AA text he mentions nothing about Thailand.

In Mobi's 988 words of anti AA text he offers no alternatives to meetings and the 12 step program.

In Mobi's 988 words of anti AA text he does not quote any ideas on how to stay sober from the book he is quoting.

Mobi's post #270 offers no actionable alternatives besides AA for staying sober.

Thank you, glad somebody else has put into words what I had been feeling about this. This kind of rhetoric where one says they are not criticizing AA but then in a round about way do just that. Citing studies about poor efficacy rates and quoting anti AA literature and then "urging" alcoholics to go. Making "observations" about AA people but in a poor light.

Stating there are alternatives but offering none except "go it alone" which all AA's know is ultimately futile for most real alcoholics. We alcoholics are not the most well adjusted bulbs in the pack. Some of us are more spiritually fit then others. Of course these are just my observations. :jap:

I wrote the above post in the morning after having coffee, I tend to get a bit "aggressive after that fist cup". I am trying to continue a spirtual journey and frankly after reading my post I don't feel good about it. I'm really wish to not disparage anyone or have harsh words. In fact having arguments with anti-AA'ers only fuels the fire as people can point and say, "these people proport to be spirtual but just listen and read what they say. Doesn't sound very spiritual to me. I should just live and let live. I need to let Mobi and anybody here on this forum understand that as an alcoholic my survival, sobriety and continued serenity depend on growing my spiritual condition just not in my thinking but in what I do and say. So, I'm going to take back what I say here with an apology to Mobi as I in a round about way put him down.

Live and Let Live, peace and serenity. Sorry.

I added up Mobi's anti AA text in post #270 and it comes to 988 words. Then I added up Mobi's positive AA text, 52 words.

In Mobi's positive AA text he mentions going to meetings and working the steps briefly but in reviewing his anti AA text he mentions no methods of staying sober.

In Mobi's 988 words of anti AA text he mentions nothing about Thailand.

In Mobi's 988 words of anti AA text he offers no alternatives to meetings and the 12 step program.

In Mobi's 988 words of anti AA text he does not quote any ideas on how to stay sober from the book he is quoting.

Mobi's post #270 offers no actionable alternatives besides AA for staying sober.

Thank you, glad somebody else has put into words what I had been feeling about this. This kind of rhetoric where one says they are not criticizing AA but then in a round about way do just that. Citing studies about poor efficacy rates and quoting anti AA literature and then "urging" alcoholics to go. Making "observations" about AA people but in a poor light.

Stating there are alternatives but offering none except "go it alone" which all AA's know is ultimately futile for most real alcoholics. We alcoholics are not the most well adjusted bulbs in the pack. Some of us are more spiritually fit then others. Of course these are just my observations. :jap:

I hope you don't take my correction to hard or the wrong way. IMHO too much incorrect information is floating around out there about AA and that's in part why people like Mobi don't think it works.

likerdup1, with the greatest respect, whatever criticisms I may have levelled at AA and however 'questionable' my personal experiences may have been, I have never once said that I do not believe that AA works.

Excuse me, yes actually shortly after I hit the post button I realized that through reading your posts that what I wrote was incorrect. Probably much better to say that many people think it doesn't work. Not you individually.

Please accept my apology.

~likerdup1 (not anymore)

kerryk

Please don't misunderstand what I'm about. I absolutely agree with everything your saying about the program of AA. I just an hour ago advised a poster who was asking about how to learn to love himself to commit to 90/90 in AA to get sober before any other process can ever have a hope of happening.

I left the program after two years of 110% commitment to it. I loved going to meetings and the things I learned were the basis for further growth. Personal honesty was a big one for me and I will be forever grateful for learning how to see myself objectively. I continue to take my inventory daily. Everything good in my life today is because of my work in AA. I don't know how it can be any clearer.

When I left the program after picking up my 2 year chip (which I still have BTW) my Sponser told me "you'll be drunk in a week" he was wrong. L

I want to point something out here which is a common misconception even with people who attend AA. The fellowship of AA is not the program. Nobody "leaves the program". People who "leave" just stop going to meetings of the fellowship of AA. So, just want to make it clear. Nobody "leaves the program" They leave the fellowship and don't take the program. Not taking the program means not taking the steps.

Also, doing 90 and 90 is a common party line in the fellowship but that is not what the big book says to do. Telling an alcoholic to do 90 and 90 might kill him. Using the instructions in the chapter "Working with Others" is the way to help an alcoholic looking for a way out. Sorry but 90 in 90 is not the program. Check it out. It is not in the book. Taking the steps is the program. Nothing else.

I hope you don't take my correction to hard or the wrong way. IMHO too much incorrect information is floating around out there about AA and that's in part why people like Mobi don't think it works.

I was speaking with my sponsor last night and it so happens that we were speaking about the same thing........90/90. We both agreed that it's fine as long as someone is working the steps, otherwise it can be harmful. A mutual friend of ours shared in a meeting that when he first came to AA, he started doing the 90/90 thing and started to feel better and figured that he didn't need to work the steps....He ended up going back out and drinking, fortunately he came back and worked the steps and has been happy and sober for 18+ years. My case might be a little unique but my sponsor wanted me to try to go to at least two meetings a day when I first started AA as I was an alcoholic with time on my hands and money in the bank, not a good combination. I was also working the steps at the time though. If I remember correctly he became my sponsor in my 2nd week and started me on step 1 in my third week. I must add that a very close friend had been sharing her 20+ years of experience in AA with me and when I finally decided to go she told me to find a sponsor asap and start working the steps asap, so I guess I was open to "jumping in with both feet." I consider myself very lucky.

Agreed, and good point. 90 in 90 is a fine suggestion as long as someone is working the steps too, and yes, why not double up if you are out of work and have time on your hands. Taking the steps needs to be in there along with the meetings. With support from the meetings and a good sponsor to guide through the steps a willing alcoholic can become recovered. ( my sponsor loves to say we can be recovered )

Just got back from my service commitment working with 2 sponsees. One just starting his 4th and the other well into his 5th. I'll tell you, what a learning experience it can be to hear a 5th step. Just see myself again and question again where I'm at spiritually. After 18 years I still find myself all I think about sometimes and forget I should be thinking more of others. Progress not perfection.

Enjoying the thread and thank you for the opportunity to write out some of my thoughts on AA. Hope to meet some of you kind folks when I get out to Pats/Jomtien sometime late next year.

Cheers Likerdup1

kerryk

Please don't misunderstand what I'm about. I absolutely agree with everything your saying about the program of AA. I just an hour ago advised a poster who was asking about how to learn to love himself to commit to 90/90 in AA to get sober before any other process can ever have a hope of happening.

I left the program after two years of 110% commitment to it. I loved going to meetings and the things I learned were the basis for further growth. Personal honesty was a big one for me and I will be forever grateful for learning how to see myself objectively. I continue to take my inventory daily. Everything good in my life today is because of my work in AA. I don't know how it can be any clearer.

When I left the program after picking up my 2 year chip (which I still have BTW) my Sponser told me "you'll be drunk in a week" he was wrong. L

I want to point something out here which is a common misconception even with people who attend AA. The fellowship of AA is not the program. Nobody "leaves the program". People who "leave" just stop going to meetings of the fellowship of AA. So, just want to make it clear. Nobody "leaves the program" They leave the fellowship and don't take the program. Not taking the program means not taking the steps.

Also, doing 90 and 90 is a common party line in the fellowship but that is not what the big book says to do. Telling someone to go to an AA meeting is a fine idea. But saying they should do 90 in 90 leads them to believe it's all about the meetings when it is not. It's about doing the steps. Using the instructions in the chapter "Working with Others" is the best way to help an alcoholic looking for a way out if you are working the program and actively looking to help alcoholics. Telling an potential alcoholic to go to meetings is fine but caution, doing 90 in 90 is not the program. Check it out. It is not in the book. Taking the steps is the program. Nothing else.

I hope you don't take my correction to hard or the wrong way. IMHO too much incorrect information is floating around out there about AA and that's in part why people like Mobi don't think it works.

So if learning to love yourself has something to do with staying sober a curious alcoholic (like myself) would probably ask some questions. Probably something like this.

"OK, great, you tell me I need to learn to love myself. Now, that sounds very nice and all, but I'm a practical guy. Just how do you do that?" What do I need to do to learn to love myself?

So, anybody? In simple terms how do you do that?

My take on much of what's in this thread is that there are some misconceptions as to what AA is. As a student of the AA Big Book let me try to make it clear. Now I don't profess to be an authority and if anyone would like to correct me I just ask that you quote the AA Big Book to make your point. The program of AA is what is found in the book Alcoholics Anonymous. Any opinions which can not be reconciled with it are not AA.

Let me start off by establishing this fact. Alcoholics Anonymous is actually 2 things.

1. The PROGRAM of AA. The program is a practical course of action which when followed gives relief to the suffer. The 12 steps are the program. The directions and information to practice the program are found within the first 164 pages of the AA book.
2. The Fellowship of AA. The meetings and groups originally intended to be forums for people seeking help and carrying the message of the Program of AA.

Here is the program of AA in a nut shell:

1)The problem = alcoholism which AA has observed is a disease of 2 components.

i) An allergy of the body ( the craving which develops AFTER an alcoholic takes a couple drinks)

II) An obsession of the mind (when honestly wanting to alcoholics find they can not entirely quit or moderate)

Note: alcoholics cannot safely consume alcohol because a craving beyond rational reason compels them to continue drinking once starting. It's all or nothing thus abstinence is the only way out. However since alcoholics also possess an obsession of the mind, even when honestly wanting to quit and frequently doing it for a time, they drink again.

Thus the main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind rather than his body (page 23 Big Book of AA) This is the insanity of the first drink.

2) The solution (given to AA by the late great Dr. Carl Jung) A spiritual awakening. A spiritual awakening relieves the insanity of the first drink

3) The practical program of action = The 12 steps

Through doing/taking/working the 12 steps a spiritual awakening can be brought about in the sufferer giving freedom from the insanity of the first drink or the "mental obsession" and thus relief from Alcoholism in the form of prolonged and sustained abstinence coupled with a contented peaceful existence.

Through study of the Big Book one can confirm the above. What I've written may bring about questions and I welcome them. I have studied the book quite extensively and my life has never been better for it. AA has given me not only sobriety but a design for living which continues to bring me a good measure of contentment and peace.

"I've never seen an alcoholic get into any trouble from working the steps too soon, but have seen many suffer or die from working them too late" Paul M.

So why does God suddenly have this miraculous ability to relieve alcoholics of their disease, as so many recovering members of AA believe?

Mobi, I didn't see any comment concerning my full and complete answer, with quotes from AA literature, to your question quoted above (the nature of which convinces me in some way or another you hadn't, at least prior to your post the full and complete run down of the AA program). I hope my post will show that your OP idea that "so why does God suddenly have the ability to relieve alcoholics" is not the case and an not AA. Actually the fact is Doctors since early times have observed alcoholics getting well from what they saw as "spiritual experiences".

Please see my two previous post a few pages back. I believe with this extra information you may see that your ideas about AA seem to be skewed and not actually AA. I wish you to know the truth. Myself, I've studied the book. Not just read it "cover to cover" a couple of times. A couple of readings I found to be woefully insufficient to understand the program. Actual study is warranted, especially if one suffers from this most serious, insidious and terminal illness.

Sincerely, Likerdup1 (not so much)

Mobi, excellent OP and as ThaiPauly says, an interesting thread.

Seems odd to read some things here. AA is the most successful way to stop drinking in our world today. There simply isn't a better way available.

Actually that's not true. The success rate for AA is about the same as for spontaneous recovery among untreated alcohol abusers.

I would contend that AA's who have thoroughly worked, and continue to work the program are far less likely to relapse than AA's who have not. I would also contend that if a study were done looking at AA's who have "thoroughly followed the path" that the relapse rate would be quite a bit less. I am also a bit of a cynic when it comes to studies and statistics in general, not only studies related to AA. I feel it is important to look at who is doing the studies and/or stats and what, if any, might be an underlying motivation as to the results. Enron looked really good on paper for a long time while in fact they were bleeding money all over the place, that is only one example, there are many more out there. In regards to studies concerning the efficacy of different treatments for substance abuse, I think it's important to take into account who is generating the studies, in this case usually someone in the medical field, and that treatment for substance abuse is big business, be it rehabs, medications, etc. I have to believe that in most cases that the self interest of the researcher is going to skew the results in some way. be fair I don't think that a lot of AA's would want to be involved in a study.

Agreement Graham, thank you for this good post. I think many of these studies of AA's efficacy fail to take into account people who really "tried" AA. Trying meaning completely taking the steps and continuing on doing 12 step work (as I do now 18+ years sober). A study of how many people walk in the rooms, how many are sober and for how long only shows just that. Any AA who has studied the book knows that it never talks about say, how to have a meeting, what to say in a meeting, how many to go to etc.. Of course the book only focuses on finding a power greater to solve the problem. That is the program of AA.

To bad, these surveys we see are half way accurate at best anyway IMHO. And I also agree with you, who knows the motivation. There was advert on TV of a Dr. claiming a cure for alcoholism. Perhaps he conducted one of these studies.

Well I can tell both you and I know many alcoholics 1) are just not willing to go to any lengths. They simply will not or do not muster the courage to fully complete say even a through 4th and 5th step (moral inventory and admission of personality defects) let alone doing a complete 9th (make amends to all ones harmed). My sponsor, God bless him, says "sometimes the work drives them out but the booze eventually drives them back in". BUT that's if the meetings are also carrying the real message of alcoholics anonymous. 2) They never really get the message of the program. Too many meetings I've attended center around people bringing their problems to AA rather than people talking about how to solve them. A good AA meeting from the start talks about the disease, it's hopelessness, the solution being a spiritual awakening and to attain that, working the steps. An alcohlic could go to many meetings and actually never even hear the info in that last sentence.

....So perhaps, spiritually is not dependent upon any outside, 'higher power', but is merely a manifestation of each individual's innate spiritual power?

Just a thought.

RickThai

A very good thought RickThai.

Couldn't have put it better myself

Make note, likerdup1, there is another answer to the 'spirituality' issue.....

Mobi, to what spirituality issue were you referring? Let me try to elaborate a bit on the topic at hand in an effort to help if doing it on your own volition happens to not turn out as you hope.

As an avid AA member and almost fanatic of the Big Book, all I know is what I mentioned earlier in this thread. For me as an alcoholic it is profound good news that since early times, once in awhile alcoholics had recovered from what doctors saw as a spiritual awakening.

One of the greatest psychiatric doctors of all times gives us an important observation, one he had noted as did many doctors before him . That once in awhile alcoholics they were working with would have spiritual awakenings and recover and in a large part having nothing to do with any therapy the doctor prescribed. In this way we know it's not some invention of a cult leader trying to recruit members for unknown self serving reasons. It's not just some conjecture or a fluke idea. The idea is also not by a long shot born of any religion. It actually is a phenomenon doctors observed for years. It was found later that these spiritual awakenings could be brought about by following some ideas that we now know as the 12msteps.

There has been a lot of writing on this thread about what God might be or might not. Where God is and where he may not be. But all that really doesn't matter from my experience. I only experienced a Power Greater than myself when I actually DID SOMETHING to seek it. What I did was to wholly take the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, without reservation, without trying to alter it or change it. Follow the directions as written. What happened is this one time self proclaimed leader of the atheist society became a believer living a happy and sober life the last 18+ years.

God is in the seeking and in through the taking of the 12 steps one can experience a God of ones own understanding, stay sober and live a peaceful and serene life.

Hope this helps, ~likerdup1 (not so much)

"Can God cure Cancer? Or heart disease? Some may claim that he can, but they are in the extreme minority – a religious fringe element, most would conclude. For most of us, the only cure for cancer is medical treatment – surgery, chemo-therapy etcetera and as far as I am aware, although I have never consulted with any cancer specialists, God has no part in this process.

So why does God suddenly have this miraculous ability to relieve alcoholics of their disease, as so many recovering members of AA believe? I think we might find the answer in the nature of the disease – the fact that alcoholics – to one extent or another – are suffering from some degree of mental impairment. They are unable to think clearly and rationally and their powers of logical reasoning are severely compromised.

Medical science has already established that it can take years, if at all, for a sober alcoholic to recover all of his cognitive functions, so isn't it fairly obvious that such people would be vulnerable to the heady and attractive ideas propounded by AA religious zealots? Then, if we add into the mix the fact that most, if not all alcoholics are also social misfits in one way or another, with many suffering from such diseases as manic depression, agoraphobia, OCD and so on.

Mobi has brought up some valid questions here. And the Big Book of AA can answer them all. God hasn't just suddenly had the ability to give relief to alcoholics. It's been happening since early times, and regarded as a phenomenon or freak occurrence happening now and again for hopeless alcoholics.

The "spiritual solution" idea which is posed in the chapter "There is a Solution" originates not from religion. This idea was introduced to an alcoholic by the name of Roland Hazard by one of the greatest living psychiatrists the Swiss psychiatrist, and influential thinker and founder of Analytical Psychology Dr. Carl Jung. This information is found within the AA big book on page 27. Many countless Doctors in an effort to help the myriad of alcoholics paraded in front of them have, over the years, observed a phenomenon well documented and regarded as a kind of "freak occurrence" . That being what AA now calls a spiritual awakening or experience.

Big Book Quote of Dr. Carl Jung responding to a question posed by Roland Hazard:

"Here and there, once in a while, alcoholics have had what are called vital spiritual experiences. To me these are phenomena. They appear to be in the nature of huge emotional displacements and rearrangements. Ideas, emotions, and attitudes which were once the guiding forces of the lives of these men are suddenly cast to one side, and a completely new set of conceptions and motives begin to dominate them."

So again, this was not a concept invented by AA, long before the program of AA was written by Bill Wilson (actually much borrowed from the Oxford groups) the spiritual experience has been an occurring for "lucky" or receptive alcoholics.

The idea was brought to the USA by Roland Hazard, who helped a man by the name of Ebby Thacher relieve his alcohlism through the tenets of the Oxford groups. Thacher was the "glowing skin friend" that approached Bill at one of the low points in his alcoholism and introduced Bill to the idea that a belief and dependence on a Higher Power could relieve his drink problem.

So Mr. Mobi, there your question is answered, God or Higher Power didn't just suddenly have the ability to relieve but has been doing it since early times and quite a bit more as of late with the advent of a set of directions to that end ---- The 12 steps.

~likerdup1 (18 years no more)

In order to make my point clear we have to establish a fact that even many people attending the fellowship of AA fail to realize. The fellowship of AA is not the program of AA and that the program of AA is not the fellowship of AA.

Sure "The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking". and even people who are not alcoholic or even think they have a problem are welcome at open meetings. Anybody can walk into an AA meeting and check it out and stay if they want, as long as they want to quit drinking. But that isNOTworking the program and the only hope for most real alcoholics is to actually take the steps and practice the program of Alcoholics Anonymous

To practice the program of Alcoholics Anonymous there ARE requirements. The program of Alcoholics Anonymous being nothing nothing more or less than what is contained in the first 164 pages of the Big Book and the essays of the 12 and 12. And there IS a requirement to believe or be even willing to believe that a Power Greater can restore sanity. The insanity being the thinking before the 1st drink.

There is a problem found in many groups of the fellowship these days which is a lack of knowledge of the program found in the book. To say that practicing the program of AA does not require a belief in a Power Greater than oneself, or a God of ones own understanding is incorrect. Now I could try to second guess what Sheryl wrote, but she did not write God of Jehovah or Jesus Christ.

Speaking as a Moderator, please let's keep this civil and free from personalized digs, taunts etc. As well as unwarranted ethnic stereotyping and the like (you know who you are ).

Speaking as a poster, clearly neither the OP nor some of the others on this thread at all understand what Kerry has tried to explain. I also tried to explain this one time but for what it is worth, will try again.

A Higher Power is, by definition, not something your intellect is going to be able to understand, but it is, fortunately, something that can be directly experienced, and that experience is life-changing in all sorts of ways, not only in regard to only alcoholism or other addictions. Millions of people, throughout history and also today, have had this experience and live in direct relationship with a Higher Power. I know I do.

It is the experience that is transformative, not a theoretical belief. (Although it is necessary to open yourself up to the possibility of it to have the experience). Then from that point forward, what matters is how you relate to the HP, i.e. to what extent you let it guide you as opposed to letting your ego/self-will take the reins.

Intellectual views of no use whatsoever in this regard. And attachment to such views, whether it is attachment to a view about a Higher Power or attachment to the view that no such thing exists, are rooted in ego and very counterproductive.

So while it may sound ridiculous to hear that people could let the various odd things "be" their higher power, it actually is not since what matters is what it is not: it is not your self-will. Putting that aside is what lets the light in. If in order to be able to do that a person has to have some sort of concept in mind about what the Higher Power is (and it seems many Westerners do) then fine, it can be imagined as a teddy bear or any other %!&$ thing. Just as long as it is understood to be a power outside the ego-centered self...and outside the dogmatic views of that self.

This is an issue that has a lot of importance well beyond alcoholism. My personal exposure to 12-step programs was in the form of Al-Anon rather than AA and my experience of a Higher Power came well before that, although I found the 12 steps to have something valuable to offer that augmented my other spiritual practices. Which do not, BTW, involve what most people mean by a "God".

I am not saying all this to try to persuade the OP, he has clearly made his own decision with regard to this. But I would like others reading this to know that neither AA nor other 12 step programs require any sort of belief in God and that much of what has been written here by people who have not ever experienced a "Higher Power" is an inaccurate reflection of what all that is really about.

Thank you Sheryl, I agree with most you've said here. Let me preface the point I'm about to make by saying I consider myself a humble student of the Alcoholics Anonymous book and have studied it. (not read it through cover to cover a couple times) but extensively studied it with several other "scholars" for many many hours over the years.

My point: To say that AA does not require a Higher Power, God, Spirit of the Universe etc.. is flatly incorrect and I just need to make this clear. The book entitled Alcoholics Anonymous is nothing else but a guide for the sufferer to find a Power Greater and spiritual awakening giving sustained permanent abstinence from alcoholism. Simply saying it's not you doesn't go far enough in my opinion. And, I know for fact that the AA book never makes any such recommendation as "just remember it's not you" or say it's OK to make your HP a door known or inanimate object. They do say this. (nobody else seems to want use the actual literature so I will.)

"Actually we were fooling ourselves, for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there."

Now I'm not religious by any means but a Power Greater than myself which I call God has done something for me which I could not do for myself. It gave my relief of the mental obsession part of alcoholism thus giving me rational reasoning to not pickup a drink for over 18 years. I follow the steps and continue to have 3 to 4 sponsees at any given time. I don't actually do the sponsoring these days, I read the book with my sponsees and let the book do the sponsoring. Please don't be offended by my correction, but you are mistaken in your statement and as an avid AA am compelled to set the record straight. I hope you understand and if interested do pickup the book and perhaps wish to study it as I have so that you may know the truth of the program of AA.