beautifulthailand99

6 hours ago, rabas said:

 

I'll add that the Orange revolution was a result of the poisoning (and assassination attempt) of Viktor Yushchenko, then pro Western (and NATO) candidate in Ukrainian's 2004 presidential election, and subsequent massive election corruption that led to pro Russian candidate Viktor Yanukovych's temporary election, which was later nullified.

 

Yushchenko was poisoned by dioxin, a horrific poison that left his face scared. Dioxin is in the same genre as other Putin toxins like radioactive polonium and banned nerve gasses.

It's a lot more nuanced than you suggest re  Viktor Yanukovych as this article from the Brooking's Institute reported at the time (2011) and when we talk about Maidan you cannot ignore the armed militancy of a not insignificant far-right element that went quickly to violence and fanned the flames of insurrection. Ukraine has always been murky at the centre and it still is.

Yanukovych took office in early 2010 after defeating former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko in a hotly-contested presidential ballot. At the time, many in Ukraine and the West worried that the supposedly “pro-Russian” Yanukovych would turn Kyiv back toward Moscow. In fact, he has pursued a far more nuanced foreign policy.

True, the president extended the stay of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea and ruled out pursuing membership in the NATO military alliance.

He has made clear, however, his goal of concluding a free trade arrangement with the European Union while fending off Moscow’s persistent entreaties to join a customs union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. Military cooperation with NATO continues, as evidenced by the June Sea Breeze exercise.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/can-ukraine-join-europe-as-yanukovych-moves-away-from-eu-values/

Nearly a decade on, the 2014 Revolution of Dignity, as it’s known in Ukraine, remains one of the more widely misunderstood episodes of recent history. Yet understanding it is critical to understanding the ongoing standoff over Ukraine, which can largely be traced back to this polarizing event — depending on who you ask, an inspiring liberal revolution or a far-right coup d’état.

https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea

As to election corruption ;

International monitors on Monday described Ukraine's presidential election as free and fair, putting pressure on Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko to concede defeat despite a tight vote count and charges of irregularities.

 But international observers said they detected no serious faults in Sunday's polling, a reversal of the position they took in the Orange Revolution five years ago when Yanukovych was accused of fabricating votes in his first Kremlin-backed bid for the presidency.

Joao Soares, president of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, said the election was an "impressive display of democracy" and called on politicians to honor the outcome.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/08/AR2010020803583.html

7 hours ago, transam said:

Sovereign nations are just that, they can do what they want if an aggressor is at the door....

Cuba was a different kettle of fish, they were going to let the USSR install nukes on their island, nowhere near Russia...

Putin is just making big mistakes, he created the Finland and Sweden move, nobody else, the Russian people know it too.......... 

Yes but no but..... JFK was,  actually we now know prepared to destroy the world, and lest we forget the only country on earth to have used atomic weapons on cities. Thank God Russia backed down. But keep on whistling Dixie and looking out for those reds under the bed.

4 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I mentioned nothing I posted an article and a qoute from the article. The Russian deal apparently open to all, was 6 months and death or freedom (well released into Putin's Russia which isn't the same). Prigi didn't get that deal but got executed for his sins.

 

 

And this was the recruitment. 

1 minute ago, rabas said:

 

But you forget to mention the Russian and Ukraine conditions of recruitment are completely different.

 

I mentioned nothing I posted an article and a qoute from the article. The Russian deal apparently open to all, was 6 months and death or freedom (well released into Putin's Russia which isn't the same). Prigi didn't get that deal but got executed for his sins.

9 minutes ago, transam said:

So what....Is this today's nugget from the Red side...........?  🤔

The Kraken awakes.

https://archive.ph/F7T2c

Yatsenko says other prisoners told him they will see how he and other convicts fare before deciding. On a recent visit to their prison, bored-looking men stood in courtyards smoking. Some labored under a hot sun making concrete obstacles known as dragon’s teeth for the military.
“But prison life is like a summer holiday camp” compared with the front, said Barandich.

7 minutes ago, niccodemi said:

Yes, I watched it. I couldn't find much new information apart from what we hear from mainstream media in West, basically Russia is bad, Putin is bad and he wants to conquer Ukraine while provoking NATO and West will prevail by supplying more and more weapons to Ukraine. There are some truths in there for sure, even war in Georgia in 2008 is mentioned however there is no attempt to explain the root cause of all these issues with Russia.

By the way the war in Georgia happened only a few months after NATO summit which I mentioned earlier and I believe that that was not a coincidence. Russia opposed previous NATO expansions in 1999 and in 2004 but couldn't do anything about it. Following is what US ambassador to Moscow at the time had to say about expansion to Ukraine:

 

 

His leaked cable (NYET MEANS NYET) is also interesting to read.

 

The best explanation is provided by J. Mearsheimer who predicted Russia wrecking Ukraine already back in 2015.

 

Link to video.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 great links I hadn't read the cable before but it was all there years before. The US has been fully cognisant at to what they are doing all along. Hell can't be hot enough for Victoria Nuland the chief artcictect of Ukaraine meddling  - like Paul Wolfowitz or Henry Kissinger they have been responsible by their drving of US policy for millions of deaths. But at that level it's just about global chess and power not principles. They get pasted on after the event as required then comes out the flags and sloganeering. Democracy,freedom and human rights. Russia is trolling right back in their own backyard , everyone is playing with fire here.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/07/russia-nuclear-powered-submarine-kazan-to-visit-cuba

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems some would prefer Thailand to have been ruined by fighting against an undefeatable army. It took the atom bomb to defeat them.

Phibun was no angel but I respect post 1932 he tried to carve out a new Thailand , imperfect as it was sandwiched beween rapacious colonial powers. That said the real hero with Seri Thai was Pridi Banomyong - the greatest Thai who ever lived bar none. But that's another story ......

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They have history on that. In Afghanistan they apparently did that by supplying just enough weapons to keep them in the game against Russia without winning. That didn't change till some US politician forced them to supply ground to air shoulder launched missiles.

Yup and cooked up Bin Laden in that toxic stew, that worked out well. Unintended consequeces from a hegemon that doesn't give a sh!t about the chaos they leave in their wake. Can I hate them all for their perfidy and lies is is it just Putin who needs to be the object of my wrath ? Yeah , Meet the new boss , same as the old boss. I won't get fooled again.

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

I know my language is horrible and alot of spelling error, but seriously, when I say half truts, sounds plausable but full of bull pie and conspirecy? 

 

Some sounds like common sense, and some of it is truths, but twisted ? Do this sounds better? 

I not criticising your spelling and English might not be your native language if so then you write brilliantly I struggle apart from English. But there are some commentators best avoided I would say Col Douglas MacGregor, Judge Napolitano, Scott Ritter , The Duran ,Tucker Carlson , that ex CIA bloke, the Hindustan Times, Lord Bebo (though he is a useful hub of info and misinfo)  and others they are right wing shills for Russia probably paid for. They maybe right sometimes but they are generally arguing in bad faith rather than seeking out the truth, which lies somewhere in the middle and if you seek it out, is certainly in the "free" western mainstream media.

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

Obviously, you don't believe that nations have the right of self determination.

 

What limits on *your* country's decision making are acceptable to you? 

Salvador Allende is on the other line calling from the 1970s do yo uwant to take his call ?

20 minutes ago, TedG said:

The Putin supporter's concern for Ukraine's losses is touching. Ukraine is fighting for its sovereignty; that's why they fight. I'm happy to see the West supporting Ukraine's defense against Putin.  

Welcome to the forum Ted I look forward to your well argued and sourced opinions. I never did figure out how to do the visitor block on my profile but looks like you fgured it out straight away.

22 minutes ago, transam said:

😂........Is that your today's theatrics.............😂

 

Now tell us, why 2 staunch neutral countries, Sweden & Finland, joined NATO.......🤔

In your own words, not your Red leaders........

 

Naah you didn't ask nice enough - I'll think I'll take your content free micro post privilges on this one and express an opinion without having to gold plate it.

Having seen what has happened to Ukraine Georgia is very wary about upsetting her next door neighbour and with good reason. It helps noone if the US and others stir that pot.

That close aide of Zelenskiy I warned you about upthread is being well and truly monstered in this exclusive Times article -  we are being prepped for the fall of Z.

The political survival of two of those deputies, Oleh Tatarov and Kyrylo Tymoshenko, now a key adviser to the defence minister, Rustem Umerov, has outraged anti-corruption watchdogs who point to reports of their alleged involvement in bribery scandals.

“Despite all the requests from international partners, Tatarov is still in charge of law enforcement reform, which is insane,” said Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of the Anti-Corruption Action Centre.

She noted Tatarov was investigated for bribery, adding: “Instead of dismissing him, the office of the president instructed new prosecutors to take over his case, and they closed it.”

https://archive.ph/6tNWi

Andriy Borysovych Yermak (Ukrainian: Андрій Борисович Єрмак; born 21 November 1971)[2] is a Ukrainian film producer who was appointed by Volodymyr Zelenskyy to serve as the Head of the Office of the President of Ukraine from 11 February 2020.[1] Yermak is also a member of the Headquarters of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, the highest command and control body for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. He has been described as Zelensky’s right-hand man and a "real power broker" in Ukraine.[3] In 2024, Time named Yermak to their annual list of 100 most influential people in the world.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Yermak

The corruption case against his brother was closed. Washington aren't happy that's for sure. These will be the Trump levers as well should he win the Presidency. Fold or we publish.

https://kyivindependent.com/nabu-says-it-closed-corruption-case-against-brother-of-zelenskys-chief-of-staff/

12 minutes ago, jvs said:

Beautifulthailand,can you reply to this at least?

Not off topic.

For me it's like divided Ireland. If Russia kept it's essentially Russian speaking areas I beleive they would declare a win and an armistice like Korea would come into effect. Ukraine could rest and recover and build a huge defensive line like they are doing in the rest of Europe. Pro Russian Ukrainians can go and live in their areas and pro Ukrainains can go and live theirs - they certainly don't tolerate each other anymore. If Ukraine can't win and there just isn't the weaponary or ammo or manpower to sustain this war and NATO boots aren't going on the ground (this is a war against a nuclear power lest we forget) then what is being achieved to let this tragic and terrible war continue ?

2 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

He is famous and is in Wikipedia. He is Russian, works in Russia, writes in Russian so he appears in Russian Wiki. (Wiki is author language based, not English). Click image for his Wiki page in Google English.

 

He has a long list of accolades. He is a founder of Russia's Higher School of Economics. He is author of many publications in the economic press and the first textbook in Russia on market economics for HS students, published in large quantities. "Today "he is one of the most authoritative specialists in the field of marketing and pricing in Russia" and "among the 12 best teachers of Russian business education", etc.

 

He was recently exiled with many other experts after being deemed a foreign agent. Why? His book contents "do not contribute to love for the Motherland." He's now in Lithuania and is quoted in western media: Business Insider,  Business Insider,  Reuters.

 

Economists inside Russia can't speak freely out of fear,  those outside tell a very different story. Western media often confuses the two streams of real and fake info out of Russia. This is why one should not believe anything coming from Putin's Russia. 
 

I skip the rest of your post which starts on false premise. I did give you a little red heart to show your negative feedback is not mine 🙂
 

Thanks for the update - that said economics is not a science but attempts to at any point predict the outcomes based on the past and predicting the future. He no doubt for good reasons, instinct and desire would like to see the current Russian system collapse and his bias will look for data that confirms that.

Elvira Nabiullina - the head of the Central Bank is regarded for better or worse as one of the world's greatest central banker and  a reluctant but essential Putin ally. When you then combine that he has replaced Shoigu as defence minister by lauded technocrat economist Andrei Belousov and the pivot towards China , it's huge natural resources and land  and a fairly pliant and essentially complicit population I wouldn't bet on Russia failing anytime soon. If the SBU wanted to fight a smart war assasinate these 2. Putin has his Albert Speer and his Hjalmar Schacht in place and for those with a knowledge of Nazi Germany they were his 2 key civilian allies allowing his war mchine to operate. And then he attacked Russia - history tells us unless you are mad don't do that.

Don't worry about emojis I certainly don't but thanks for the thought.

https://archive.ph/UNKJM

2 minutes ago, jvs said:

I can not agree with you on this.Off topic a bit but i will reply to what you said about Thailand.

Have you visited Kanchanaburi and have you seen what the Japanese army did there?

Because Thailand allowed them!I have also visited the site where the Japanese landed in Prachuapkirikhan ,there is some kind of remembrance plaque there.

Imo a lot of the dead people in the many graves in Kanchanaburi are there because of letting evil

people get away with their actions.

 

Eye for an Eye.

Do you think that if the Ukraine would lay down their weapons and let russia keep what they have

stolen so far  would stop the russian agression and the killing would stop?

I think that is very naive.Maybe look at Georgia and some other of putins plans.

Unfortunately being passive does not work against an aggressor.

 

 

Thanks for your reply it is off topic so I will refrain from having what could have been a good debate on ethics and war and Thailand's non-aligment with "great" powers.

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO it's just another "this is going to win the war" propaganda exercise. I very much doubt the US is going to risk the latest tech falling into Russian hands, so the planes may not be as good as the MIGS. Perhaps they'll end up shooting drones far away from the front.

Anyone familiar with history should know that the US is ruthless with its aid. When it’s no longer convenient, they’ll pull it. And there’s no guarantee that they even want people to win, or win quickly.

Their number one goal has been to bleed Russia out as much as possible. I really don’t think they care how many Ukrainians die to achieve that.To be fair they probably went into this war because the US promised to supply them with enough weapons to win. And that hasn't happened and now it certainly won't happen.

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sooooo, all Russia has to do is send 1,000 drones and an entire year's production is gone, leaving the sky open for the next 1,000. That's assuming Ukraine even gets a full year's production.

F16's are not the Wunderwaffe some think they are and you need to add pristine runways to their list of intensive demands to keep them airworthy.

That care will extend to deploying teams with sealant to cover cracks and crevices or uneven concrete on runways as close to the frontline as possible to avoid making an obvious target out of just a few well-maintained sites, said Justin Bronk with the Royal United Services Institute think tank.  

“For a start, runways and taxi routes at multiple sites will need to be smooth and constantly checked for debris given how susceptible the low-slung, single-engine F-16s are to ground debris compared to MiG-29s,” he said.

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-f-16-fighter-jets-war-russia-base-runway/

3 minutes ago, transam said:

More Red stuff......🤣

Yeah Politico like "Warhog Defense"  is an organ of authority.

8 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

If someone invaded your house, would you negotiate with them, and maybe give them a few rooms?

It would depend whether I was armed or not and my chance of getting out alive and what were my chances of the whole house being burnt down with me and my family inside or could a delicate situation be defused. That was Thailand's approch in WW2 wheh the Japanese invaded it saved the country. A good Buddhist/Christian compromise.

Eye for Eye

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

15 hours ago, transam said:

Both sides are losing young men for Putin's dream, nothing else. I feel sorry for the Russian folk, their country has been ostracized, the countries move to real freedom has collapsed, gone backwards in no time, and all for what, one man's land grab dream....🥴

For once I applaud your post - so true and so sad. But we are where we are, and should be seeking what is the least worst option now. In Thailand they say never pick a fight unless you are prepared to die as they don't fight fair or give up once they start. That's Russia - Putin or no Putin , and like the Israelis they are both traumatised, brutalised , paranoid people capable of both great achievements or great harm. It's their history , swimming in the oceans of blood of their fallen people.