Tippaporn

Well, since the Founding Fathers were mostly religious men then I think it's safe to say that the unspoken part of "all men are created equal" would be "in the eyes of God." One man is not better than another would be another way of saying it. If you were to take the religious overtones out then it would still apply for the same reason. I think we can talk about a creator without involving any religion. Now in my opinion one cannot truly understand the equality that exists in this world (or the justice or lack of) without an understanding of who and what we are. For most people, and let's be honest, there is little understanding, if any, of why any of us are here in the first place. Or how we got here. Or where we were before we came here. Or where we go when we leave. To compound this lack of knowledge many do not even believe that life has any meaning or purpose. Given that then it's not hard to understand why a lot of people would have trouble accepting a true explanation of why we are all equal. And just to avoid confusion I'll clarify that equality is not synonymous with sameness. So here's my explanation . . . and I'll leave it for others to accept it or not. Everyone on this planet has chosen to come here out of free will. The reason for coming is not at all singular. But among the many reasons is the desire for growth. For growth is inherent within creation and it is a condition which exists in all realities. Growth quite naturally implies challenges. That should make sense to everyone. Though we are all created equally all of us are also entirely unique. Which translates to everyone choosing their own set of particular challenges based on their own personal inclinations, likes and dislikes, etc. Now if one had a strong interest in becoming a world class skier, for example, then they would naturally gravitate to whatever conditions are necessary that will accommodate the fulfillment of their desire. Not everyone wants to be a world class skier, obviously. For those who don't they may even wonder why anyone would want to be a world class skier at all. Their particular persuasion would be in an entirely different direction. Imagine, now, someone who has been born without a limb. Perhaps a missing arm, or leg. To be born with such a condition presents, obviously, a unique set of challenges. Not only that but it affords a way to perceive the world differently. But the condition is nevertheless freely chosen. Again, others might be utterly aghast that anyone would choose such a life condition. And that is where the phrase "to each their own" comes from. This explanation hopefully conveys some understanding of why people may even choose a life of intolerable conditions. Or a life of great happiness. A life as a pauper. A life as a king. A life of persecution. A life of fame and fawning. Each provides an opportunity for different challenges, for different frames of reference, for different perspectives, for opportunities to bring different abilities and talents to play. On and on. Hummin, just keep in mind that I'm not trying to sell you anything or attempting to recruit you. I'll provide information and it's entirely up to you what you want to do with it. Sh!tcan it or take it to heart. That's not my business . . . only yours.

Coincidentally I just watched the epic 4 hour long Justice League - Snyders Cut (2021) movie with my 9 y.o. daughter the other week. At one point she called them the Justice Warriors. I laughed and promptly corrected her. I explained that Justice Warriors are not about justice at all. They're just people with a lot of mixed up ideas. Since you want to quibble about definitions I think you should provide us with your definitions and explain why you take exception to a statement the Founding Fathers deemed so truthful that they incorporated it into the United States of America Declaration of Independence. And then we'll go from there. If we get that far I promise to give you my honest answer.

Religions, just like Gods, come and go.

All men are created equal. An eternal truth that would definitely be around in 1,000 years and beyond. At least one would hope it would. On the other hand, physical laws are not universal. They apply only to the physical realm. And even there they can theoretically be overridden.

I can't fault you for religion leaving a bad taste in your mouth. Perhaps the answers lie not in religion or science? After all, those are only two 'institutions' which offer explanations. Just because the veil of illusion hasn't been cracked doesn't mean that it can't be cracked. It does take a serious desire to do so, though. There's an answer to every question. But beware; the answers may not be what one expects. That's the tricky part. Hint: the answers lie outside of the box.

In truth, science has no clue as to what consciousness is. If they make that claim they are merely lying. And if consciousness is a physical entity then where is it? For science has not been able to locate it's whereabouts. Science making claims of that which it has no proof. How unscientific of science. Science has created it's share of myths no different than religion. Perhaps it's greatest myth, which is detrimental in my view, is that life is nothing more than purely mechanistic. The individual has no true volition and no impact on the existence in which he finds himself. He simply finds himself in a c-r-a-p game of cosmic chance. It's been said before that surely science must believe in the God of Chance. Or science's belief, yes belief, of the insignificance of individual life based solely and simply due to a comparison of the vastness of existence. Science does no benefit by squashing the wonder of life only because it lacks the ability to appreciate that life.. Now I agree that religions are full of myths and superstitions but do not think for a moment that science is innocent of the same. If you want to discuss the many superstitions of science we could start with the idea that consciousness can be uploaded to a computer. Or that AI can attain consciousness. You can, though, rest assured that the universe is what is it and functions as it does despite anyone's opinion or belief about what it is or how it works. In which case prudence would suggest that you find out for yourself. But that's a task that few have the patience or stomach for and fewer still have an inkling of where to begin in that journey of discovery. And no, I would not suggest religion as a good starting.

It's not a point to reach, though. The separation is artificial. We could talk about the origins but that would not be important. To say we 'have' a soul would be inaccurate. To say we are a soul would be true. Use any other synonym for soul, and there are many. I guess a lot of people grew up with the religious belief that we 'possess' a soul which we then reclaim (perhaps, perhaps not) upon death. Or that we have a spirit (another word that can be used interchangeably with soul) that we must unite with. Or that we must unite with our source and once again become One. The idea that separation exists then ties in with ideas that this world is only something we must, unfortunately, pass through to reach some exalted plane where, perhaps, we're finally free from pain. Or that this world is a testing ground to prove our worth, or loyalty to a higher being. A world existing only for the purpose of having us jump through hoops to get to where we really want to go (wherever that might be since there are multiple definitions of what that place is). The fables created around this idea of separation are endless. Now is you want to explore your consciousness then what you would find is simply this: there is more to 'you' than you've realised. Much more. The effort of any discovery of your more expansive self would not be done with an eye to move past this world to some 'there' but rather the knowledge of other portions would enhance your experience in this reality. Hopefully you don't take this as me beating a dead horse, mauGR1, and see my continuing posts as simply trying to add more clarification as I'm dispelling certain long held notions by many.

There is no separation between the spirit and who you see in the mirror. They are one and the same.

Mass reality from my perspective is nothing more than the co-creation of individuals each creating their own individual realities. In other words, the interactions between individuals creating together. The true fulfillment of the individual would automatically assist in the fulfillment of all other individuals. Of course looking out into the world that seems highly contradictory. Now if it's true that everyone is the creator of their own reality then it would follow that no one has the ability to create within anyone else's reality. Certainly if even God cannot create in ones reality then surely no one else can. As long as people believe that they don't create their own reality then they will assume that others must be creating at least a portion of their realities for them. Whether God, chance or any other individual. And hence the false idea, in my opinion, that someone can prevent the well being of another. Granted, there's much more to the story of how that all works in all of it's practical detail. Any full explanation requires much more information. This is just a start for a fuller, more comprehensive understanding. Hopefully it's understood that how reality works cannot be fully explained in a few sentences, or a few paragraphs, or a few posts. And that information can initially appear to be contradictory to ones current view of reality. Which is why it's important that anyone who does want to understand how it all works must be willing and able to suspend, not relinquish, their current beliefs while considering other information.

No, not building a bridge between the physical and the spiritual. Rather as humans we are the spirit clothed in flesh. Or the spirit clothed in the hair and skin of a dog. The idea that we have a soul is incorrect to my way of thinking. We are a soul, or whatever term for it that one wishes to use, cloaked in flesh and bones.

Well, I didn't intend my post intro to lead astray to politics but rather to point out the condition of ultimate individual sovereignty and freedom. And to show how those ideas are currently operative in the world. Since I subscribe to the the theory of the universe as idea construction then every idea shows it's effects in one form or another. One can easily then recognise the effects in the world from not granting individual freedom and sovereignty and to then imagine the effects of granting full freedoms and sovereignty in contrast. The world would be markedly different. In a much better way, in my opinion. But really the point of the post was to argue for the idea that each and every one of us creates our own reality in every aspect . . . from great to insignificant. And that is the point for which I'm asking for thoughts and debate. As far as politicians go, though, in my opinion any leaders are merely a reflection of society.

Agree with the fact that consciousness is mobile, and surely everyone has a different level of understanding. What i don't agree with, but it may depend on semantics, is the last paragraph of your post. Although we can imagine that on other planes of consciousness there is no dual judgement as in the physical reality , there is indeed a hierarchy of different levels of consciousness from a human's point of view. As peaceful and carefree a dog may look, i never met anyone who would like to be a dog. Although understanding is not the same as consciousness, it seems that the former stimulates the latter. Good/bad Hot/cold Beautiful/ugly etc Okay. The seeming duality of the world. Seeming in the sense that good/bad, for example, are the flipsides of the same coin. I disagree with the idea that creation is hierarchically structured. It suggests that we're merely climbing the rungs of some cosmic ladder. And to where then? It's also suggestive of the existence of some pinnacle beyond which one can go no further. Heaven? Rather I subscribe to the concept that creation is unending. There's no beginning or end to it. Creation never ceases. That there is no place we're trying to get to for that would imply the end of a journey. The journey never ends. Creativity has no bounds. We create ourselves in as many ways as possible and each new creation adds to what is. In other words, existence is about endless creativity and not the road to some 'place.' In that sense everything which adds to what is is equally important. Equally precious. Equally eternal. The concept of a hierarchy implies, at least to me, that higher forms are more worthy than lesser forms. Which concept makes no sense when considering that the experience of the 'lesser' form adds to the experience of the 'higher' form. And vice versa. They're simply individual parts of a greater entity. A dog or any other animal's existence is no less than a human's in terms of quality. It's simply a different form which consciousness takes to express itself. And who is to say that a dog's experience is any less pleasurable than a human's? Why if it were known that a dog's existence was more pleasurable than a human's might not everyone want to be a dog?

Agree with the fact that consciousness is mobile, and surely everyone has a different level of understanding. What i don't agree with, but it may depend on semantics, is the last paragraph of your post. Although we can imagine that on other planes of consciousness there is no dual judgement as in the physical reality , there is indeed a hierarchy of different levels of consciousness from a human's point of view. As peaceful and carefree a dog may look, i never met anyone who would like to be a dog. Although understanding is not the same as consciousness, it seems that the former stimulates the latter. In order to give my response what is your definition of dual judgment? I'm not familiar with that.

Not long ago I listened to a Brit reporter making an astute observation, at least in my opinion, on the major difference between the structure of government in Europe vs. that of the U.S. "Culture is upstream of politics. There is a fundamental difference between the outlook of Europeans and Americans. And it is simply . . . I would go back to the words Lincoln himself used at Gettysburg . . . America is a nation conceived in liberty. Europe are various nations conceived in feudalism and serfdom. And we've had here in continental Europe a march that's lasted a millennia to arrive at the liberties that we have at the moment. "Fundamentally, however, in Europe we have liberties because the state gives them to us. And we recognise that . . . that is what we recognise, that the constitutions in Europe give us our liberties. America is the only nation I'm aware of on the face of the planet, in the whole of human history, that basically starts from the direct opposite presupposition. You start with the individual, which is God given natural rights and that individual then enters society and gives to the governments it's rights and it's limitations and says to the government what it should do. And here we see a fundamental difference start to emerge between the Europeans and the Americans and that is to say that the Americans, being the people conceived in liberty, simply will not put up with this any longer." In America the individual is recognised as possessing sovereignty granted by God. In Europe, especially in the days of kings and queens, it is the ruling royalty which has been gifted sovereignty by God (at least that's what the ruling authority would like everyone to believe ). That royal sovereign in turn awards rights to, or takes rights away from the rest of society as per his or her pleasures deem. The common individual is not afforded natural rights. The point I want to make with the above is to emphasise that all individuals are imbued with sovereignty. But also that that sovereignty is not limited in any way whatsoever. It is supreme sovereignty which allows the individual to create every last stitch of his or her own reality. That type of supreme sovereignty has yet to be recognised by the masses in today's world. The question of sovereignty is one of the main departures I take from religion. At no point does God, or any other power, intercede in the affairs of the individual to the point of overriding an individual's choices. For once that occurs, even in a single instance, individual freedom is lost. All of this leads to the idea that we create our own reality. Every last bit of it. Any system of thought that fails to recognise that individual freedom is one of the unalterable laws of creation is doomed to attempt to artificially limit experience. And to create the myriad problems which would naturally arise from the impositions of any such limits on the individual. Of course with ultimate freedom comes ultimate responsibility. The truth is that many do not want to accept the responsibility which comes with freedom. Thoughts? Debate?

Well then, I'll let it rest. Cheers and peace.

I don't use any methodologies. Life or existence isn't based on methodologies as far as I know and for reasons I'm aware of. Drugs can certainly force an alteration of consciousness but alterations of consciousness can be induced easily enough without drugs. Here again I believe the quandary results from a lack or misunderstanding of who and what we are. For even a partial understanding would bring the realisation that consciousness is mobile. Super powers? I gain what understanding I can. Same as everyone here. Everyone has a different level of understanding. There's no right or wrong, better or worse to any of it.

LOL. You post your beliefs here and when others post information that doesn't agree with you then you simply say: "Hey. I'm happy that you believe whatever you believe." Can't you at least try to argue for the positions you take? It does appear to be the case that you can't thus far. I don't mean to criticise you for no reason, Hummin. I like reading your posts. But please don't simply wave others off without at least attempting to show where one's thinking is amiss, or why your thinking is accurate.

Then please explain the holes in the logic, which is what I asked you to do previously. Why laugh at a post but then refuse to provide a rebuttal? I could give two sh!ts what anyone else believes and I have no desire to lead anyone to believing anything. I believe you're superimposing your own personal beliefs onto my intentions for posting what I post. There is no cult, club or belief system I subscribe to.

It's said that until one understands who and what they are the rest of experience can never truly be understood. I'll soon be posting what I consider to be the best explanation . . . at least partial explanation . . . of who and what we are. I'll offer it as food for thought and let everyone else do with the information what they may.

I beg to differ. All of creation is important. Nothing is ever lost. Individuality especially is never lost. You will always be you. That's not to imply that 'you' are ever a finished product. Consciousness is ever evolving.

Hummin What I wrote is not logical? Rather than a belly laugh show how the logic fails.

I think one needs to be aware and take into account that personal symbolism is involved in many accounts describing what is found in altered states of consciousness before accepting any of these accounts literally.

Existence involves never ending growth. By it's very definition heaven, which is generally thought of as a state of perfection, would be as close as one could get to true death. A state of perfection implies that one can no longer go beyond. Growth would be dead then. I don't argue that people can't create their version of heaven but I would argue that it's not an actual permanent existence. Imagine winning all of the time. For all eternity. Would that not ultimately be boring?

“To ask me to verify my life by giving you my statistics is like using science to validate sorcery. It robs the world of its magic and makes milestones out of us all.” ― Carlos Castaneda

If I had to identify one of the major hangups which prevent those who require proof of everything it is this. They are stuck on the false idea that all of creation is physical. Not only that but that this universe, this physical reality, is the only reality which exists. An even greater barrier which prevents them from moving beyond the limited world that science thus far offers is a complete lack of understanding of who and what we are.