spambot

"As Vietnam doesn't require a visa when you stay under 15 days, I'm thinking Ho Chi Minh would be a nice change of scenery in mid-january."

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If you want to stay longer in Vietnam HCMC - The good news it will soon be cheaper to buy a Visa to stay longer in Vietnam

Proposed - Starting November 23, 2015

• The single-entry visa will cost US$25 instead of the current $45, Allows you to enter Vietnam once and stay for up to 30 days from first entry
• The fee for multiple-entry visas will $50.instead of the current $95.- Allows you up to 90 days from first entry and allows you to enter and exit multiple times

Also - You could start with the Visa free - And then convert the visa-free entry into a multiple entry visa while you are in Vietnam - Or if you do not then you would need to leave before 15th day and wait 30 days before you can actually return through any methods i.e either with a visa or visa free.

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Note: There are only two locations where you can get this Vietnamese visa in Thailand:

Vietnam Embassy in Thailand: Bangkok or

Vietnam General Consulate in Thailand: Khon Kaen.

Procedure: Go to the Vietnam Embassy or Consulate in Thailand (details above) to apply the visa. Original passport is required and others on the forums suggests its takes around 4-5 working days for processing. I have never done this and hence I am using other peoples data on the process.

Also can use agency / online - Apply Vietnam Visa on Arrival

– Valid for those travelling by air only
– This type of visa is more convenient if you stay far away from Vietnam embassy/consulates in Thailand and/or do not wish to send passport off.
– Procedure:
Apply online by submitting the online application form, making payment and wait for 2 working days (normal service) or 1 working day (urgent service) to get your Visa Letter via email and print it out. Upon Vietnam airport, you will show the letter - Charges are extra for this service.

There is already a post about it

It was the second embassy after Italy to release their requirements.

Hi aneliane

Thanks for that - Can you post the link to the post that identified this new announcement on the embassy in Phnom Penh website for METV.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/862991-new-metv-available-in-cambodia-for-cambodians/?hl=cambodia

Thanks UbonJoe - However this does not identify the New announcement - On the embassy in Phnom Penh website for METV.

I could be wrong but it seems that all the countries that don't offer a DE are now offering the METV and this has been announced on their websites, meanwhile the countries that offer DE are yet to announce what the future will hold regarding METV

What do you mean with "DE"?

Double Entry,

Again I could be wrong but countries that before did not offer Double Entry are now offering the METV and this is announced on their Embassy websites,

Meanwhile countries that offer Double Entry's at the moment are yet to make announcements re what will happen after the 13th

Happy to be proved wrong if this is not the case,

Mnnnn - Actually that is a very smart observation - Good way of looking at this puzzle - Since it could be the case that some might hold onto existing products while some will more than likely announce different criteria in the delivery of the new products.

There is already a post about it

It was the second embassy after Italy to release their requirements.

Hi aneliane

Thanks for that - Can you post the link to the post that identified this new announcement on the embassy in Phnom Penh website for METV.

That has been posted before. In fact it was one of the first.

PP only did single entry visas before so not a surprise that they would not do the metv.

Hi ubonjoe

Are you referring to the private email that was pasted here from a forum member - Or has someone already posted this change from the Embassy website - If this is a dupe of the website post, my apologies.

I saw that valuable guidance email posted very early on and have since been monitoring the website to identify if they would make a commitment on a public statement rather than a private comment.

Been there few days ago. Tourist visas still available, 1000B per entry. Not asking any paper but passport, copies, two pics, the form. Very long queues as only one desk is setup to submit requests and collect the day after.

Hi maxtingtong

I think it is known that single tourist visa is available - However do you know if the double tourist visa is still available?

Vientiane will do METV, I saw it on the big billboard inside the Consulate.

I will take a picture of it Thursday.

Yikes - bigjohn72 - Please can you do that - That will be a really BIG help to me and many others on this forum. Huge post doing this - Thanks!

Also well done ubonjoe - It seems he got it right when most others really believed that this would not be made available apart from home countries.

No. The MFA have not confirmed details yet. However, so far every embassy/consulate that has announced criteria for applying for the new METV will only issue it to nationals/permanent residents.

Most of the locations that have posted that info were already requiring people to be citizens or residents to apply for a visa or only did single entry tourist visas for non residents.

The Canberra embassy notice does not have that requirement mentioned but does say it is replacing the 2/3 entry tourist visas.

Just a short line about it on the DC embassy website that only says the same thing about 2/3 entry visas.

ubonjoe Quick heads up - Is Vientiane currently still issuing the double entry tourist visa? - Hence any change to this situation will be announced on 13th Nov 2015

Vientiane is still doing 2 entry visas. That will not change until after the 13th. I have been checking their website but so far nothing about it.

IMHO I think they will be doing the METV for everybody that can now get 2 entry visas there.

Hi ubonjoe

More than thanks for the answer - Straightforward and clear.

What surprised me in your answer is that you feel that they might actually be offering the METV after 13th Nov - I just assumed that it was pretty much certain and this would only be available from your home country - Only because of the landslide of conclusions shown on this forum.

Obviously no one actually knows, but if I was to listen to a best guess - Then it would be yours.

I had assumed up until now that the reasoning for implementing the METV was as a means to make it harder for long stay Tourist Visa users to use the double - But you think that this might actually not be their objective for introducing the METV?

The thought had crossed my mind that if they had specifically wanted to stop consulates like Vientiane issuing doubles they could have done this within the existing system.

Hence this might well simply just be a way of raising the price through using different packaging and offering 6 months for 5,000 THB and removing the exiting options for 60 days / 1,000 THB or two of these (in the double Visa) for 2,000. with a net result in increased revenues.

Is this the same as your reasoning for the repackaging? - or possibly is your own hunch based upon a much different perspective?

No. The MFA have not confirmed details yet. However, so far every embassy/consulate that has announced criteria for applying for the new METV will only issue it to nationals/permanent residents.

Most of the locations that have posted that info were already requiring people to be citizens or residents to apply for a visa or only did single entry tourist visas for non residents.

The Canberra embassy notice does not have that requirement mentioned but does say it is replacing the 2/3 entry tourist visas.

Just a short line about it on the DC embassy website that only says the same thing about 2/3 entry visas.

ubonjoe Quick heads up - Is Vientiane currently still issuing the double entry tourist visa? - Hence any change to this situation will be announced on 13th Nov 2015

I have a double entry TV. Obtained in Laos one month ago. Friend went same consulate in Laos two weeks ago and was issued single entry despite applying for double entry.

Next door neighbour was declined any TV as could not show exit flight and all requirements . spoke with other applicants and even if they met all criteria listed were issued single entry TV. One person was refused in their visa run group any TV despite having exit flight as he had several TVs back to back and this was deemed enough to decline. The neighbour with similar but with a month here and there break to othercountries had no issue.

So basically don't expect to get double entry TV and if applying fr single TV make sure you meet all he criteria and expect possible refusal if you have several (more than 1 or 2) back to back TVs without rbreaks of time in other countries.

This only refers t direct experience in Laos Malaysia kl and Penang and Singapore.

LilyBlue - Are you saying that this is a single instance (one person effected, but others applying on the day did get the double) for your friends experience that you cite for Lao - or are you saying that there is now a change of policy and that there is already now no double tourist visas being issued from Lao (Vientiane)?

The new METV may mean big changes in tourist visas.

There are a lot or rumors right now, but no general rules for that METV are issued yet.

Therefore, no one can really say what the changes in tourist visas may be yet

The new METV is supposed to be issued on 13 November 2015.

Before that, probably in the first week of November a meeting of the high-ups in immigration is supposed to happen

that will clarify what and how the new METV will be.

And also that may clarify any changes in tourist visa policy.

Until then nobody can really say what any new rules will be.

No need to wait that long. As explained before, 8 Thai consulates have already published the new rules, and these are all the same or very similar. So, we kind of know already.

By the way, there will be no "immigration high-ups meeting". Thai embassy and consulate are under the Minister of foreign Affairs (executive power).

Hi Paz

I am now making a trip early to Vientiane a few weeks early to apply for the double tourist since it is very likely that after this date this option will get closed down.

Just a quick check on what you are saying here - From the 8 consulates that you have identified, does this include Vientiane i.e have they already changed their policy and are currently refusing to provide the double tourist visas or are you saying that the there is no reports of Vientiane turning down double tourist applications and the last date for a safe application is 12th Nov 2015?

I will make a comment on OP third point. The hcmc thai consulate is centrally located and easy to access from areas like district 1. The consulate itself is a breeze. No queues to speak of. Need to take hard copy of your ticket INTO Thailand. I am in hcmc as I type this. Very chilled place.

As fir new METV personally that would be great for me and some others visiting places outside los OFTEN. Could keep.getting successive visas. The people hardest hit are those working or whatever who need to do quick boarder runs.

BTW your correct about the flights. This trip was 1600b return but can pay 2500 as you suggest.

Good news about location and process - And yes if you are there on a visa run you are probably in possession of a ticket - but the hard copy I am assuming this is a photocopy if purchase with Asia online?

Jeeese 1,600 THB - Even better - I need to watch for the bargains more closely - That is a crazy price and this is probably less than going to Lao after you paid the $35 Lao Visa and flight - Brilliant!

Since likelihood is that from after 13^th Nov 2015 there will be no more double tourist visa from Lao many people may start using single entry tourist Visa’s.

While in theory there is no limit to the amount of back to back single tourist visa that can be applied for, Lao has on occasions rejected a double tourist application and only issued a single because of the previous amount of a back to back applications on the passport.

The question of back to back permissible applications for single entry tourist Visa’s may become increasingly more important.

Questions

1. While historic information might not be a good predictor of what will happen after 13^th Nov it is still worthwhile knowing if there are any bordering country’s currently that do have an unofficially imposed limit on any max number of single back to back Tourist visa’s applications – Does anyone know of any country where this is a problem?

2. If there are currently limits or in fact there becomes an unofficial limit on single back to back applications - is the solution around this really going to be as simple as just alternatively applying first to Lao, then to Malaysia, next to Vietnam and then back to Lao?

3. Since Vietnam has changed its visa exempt policy for some nationalities and entry is free and return flights from Bangkok (if booked in advanced) can be had for around 2,500 THB together with experiencing an immigration process that is much easier this might increasingly be a consideration for some in the future. However does anyone have any knowledge of the easiness of the process in HCMC for a single Tourist Visa? i.e is the consulate easy to reach, are there any extra challenges in dealing with HCMC officials or different processes that makes the application more difficult?

Thanks anotheruser - You completely nailed it for me the way you described and positioned the method, context and opportunity.

Its just what I needed to be able to take action - I have to be in Europe in 6 weeks time and wanted to sort this bit out before I left - This saved me a ton of time getting this box ticked from the info you supplied. I did have a flight booked going to Lao to just simply walk the streets and talk with people on the ground to acquire the stuff you have provided - I really do not think I need to do this now.

Thanks for taking the time to be so thorough, detailed and illuminating - I am more than grateful.

Thanks anotheruser

Your response to posts was possibly one of the best I have seen on this forum.

I was especially thankful since - After spending many hours trying to figure out how to read between the lines, but all I found was straight the lines - about the Investment Promotion Law that requires for a minimum total capital requirement for a limited company investing in ‘general business operations’ -1 billion kip ($125,000 USD) and how and why a Representative Office is preferable to establishing a Limited Company.

It looked from my research that if I was to open a limited company this required a mountain of documentation and even more legal services to support the application with the Articles of Association, Shareholders’ or Joint Venture Agreement, Lease Agreement, Bank Statements showing the financial viability of the investor, Personal Details of the investor(s) such as resumes and together with a Business Plan outlining the intended business operations.

It never occured to me that I was in fact looking in the wrong place!

My take-away's from your posts:

1. Laos - You can stay as long as you want with a tourist visa - That did surprise me a lot and I did (assume) that getting a tourist visa back2back applications were going to have strings attached and this would not be easy to do this - But it seem that you do not have to jump through the same hoops as required by Thailand and be creative and knowledgeable about the changing rules at any given time.
2. Do not open a business or apply to open a business - Rather get positioned as an employee and get a work permit and business visa this way.
3. You can actually get a business visa and a work permit moderately easily - This was a big surprise and I had a assumed that i). There were restricted types of business classes that would be allowed to sponsor your work permit ii). Even if there was not strict categories simply asking a Lao business licence owner would cause great fear of being found out not adhering to some rule or another and felt in danger of some punitive result.
4. But it seems there is neither a category business restrictions nor will most local business refuse to cooperate - You just have to position yourself correctly and rent / transact funds to an existing Lao business owner so they have a vested interest in supporting your application - Simply put - This was a breakthrough in understanding for me.
5. ​And as you say the actual basis for getting a work permit and a business Visa - You must get involved with a Lao national.

The best route seems to be take the Lao tourist visa and at the end of the visa stay in Vientiane go to the Lao-Thai Friendship Bridge. Complete the immigration procedures on the Lao side; the take the shuttle bus to the Thai immigration point and enter Thailand. Then come straight back into Laos simply cross the road to the Thai immigration to exit the country. Get the shuttle bus and then arrive at the Lao side, where you can apply for a new Laos Visa on Arrival. The Lao application for Visa is usually always provided and rarely refused (unlike Thailand it does not have restrictions on multiple back2back applications).

Obvious downside here is the monthly stickers for the visa in your passport pages being eaten up and also its not clear how Thai immigration would respond to issuing an 'exempt visa' on multiple occasions (since the new restriction for land based crossing points came into force a few weeks ago).

However outside this - The point is to use the tourist visa time to understand what is available for building relationships in order to fulfill the future objectives to apply for a business visa and for a work permit that then gives you 12 months and no further visa sticker spam in your passport .

​Thanks again AnotherUser - Huge input.

Hi Spambot,

You are welcome but I am referring to CAMBODIA for all what I wrote in my post.... not..... PDR Lao.

In PDR Lao, the rules are different and work permits are definitely required and I believe rules are more stringent.

Latest offerings in Thailand by Krung Thai bank are 1.75% for fixed deposit.

Blimey - sorry Scouse123 - I am also referring to Cambodia - And yes I did have a slip of the mind - I just reviewed my post - I meant REIL nor LAK - Apologies for creating the confusion and I do not know why I made that silly mistake.

Yup - Krung are paying 1.75% - My three other Thai accounts are all paying a figure bellow this - I can get a loyalty bonus coming up for renewal that would take me to 1.85% on one of the accounts (and yes this will change if the expected Thai central bank changes rates as expected this year - downwards), but really I was just using broad stroke numbers to illustrate the thinking and show why a Cambodian term account actually has legs and from just a small investment there is little risk and lots of upside to use a Cambodian account for hedging.

Also wanted to show that this gets me easy access to a a country that is not Thailand for a least 12 moths at a time. Currently I am making visa runs and while this is not a problem it might become one at any time since it is subject to the constant changes of visa policy from Thai immigration and with new rules to follow.

But using the easy access to Siem Reap as a potential holding position for short term insurance means I do not have to worry about having the wrong passport stamp counts (or whatever else is next on the agenda for Thai immigration policy requirements). It doesn't mean I will be long term in Cambodia, but it eases my mind that I would have this option.

Longer term Thailand feels like it is unsustainable - There is no security allowing foreigners to conduct business without the deep admin, complexity and punitive commitment to taking on Thai employees needed for the compliance - And not doing this, there is a danger of being given 7 days notice to leave when you are conducting business while you are here in Thailand.

Hence finding a country that provides some kind of insurance and allowing immediate access is a good investment.

I do intend to find long term residence in either Vietnam or Lao in order to allow me to conduct business without this danger, but currently I do not have the understanding of how to get a min of 12 months on a visa (or extension to a visa) in either country without marrying a local or becoming an employee.

Thanks again Scouse123.

Nice post anotheruser

It has a good balance of information from someone who knows at the grass roots being there and written from the perspective of time to understand what is wise.

I live in Thailand because I understand the system of how do it long term - I wish to widen my choices - I am now making plans to take 50% of my funds from the UK and deploy them into SE Asia through through a balance of fixed term deposits in existing Thai BHT and use an extra currency as a hedge similar to as you illustrated in your post probably short term it will be Cambodian REIL (thanks Scouse123) and other business investments.

It sounds like you are doing something similar right now in Lao.

In Thailand with the Crackdown on Thai nominee shareholders and just simply the structural resistance to foreigners doing business this means anyone wishing to achieve these aims would have to get a new base outside of Thailand. I am actively searching for the right place that can give 12 moths without needing to think whats the next stamp I need in my passport every few moths to achieve this.

I am assuming that you do not have a work visa and can stay and do business in Lao via other means of getting a Visa - How have you achieved this?

Huge Response Scouse123 – Thanks

And that puts it in good perspective – You write well – Has context with usable data.

Simply put: Opening an account is doable – And if you do it right you will get a reduction in the tax paid on the interest down from 14% to 6% because you have an address in Lao for the service person at the bank to enter this into an application field and has a paperwork they can photocopy to add to your file.

Financially:

• Cost of doing this is $300 / £200

• Currently if I benchmark this for Thailand (for a Thai TBH) average for a 12 month account available on a fixed term is 2%.

• Potential interest available in Lao (after paying 6% tax on interest) is around 5% (net)

• Hence the extra interest available in Lao = 3% (FX rate swings ignored)

• Minimum funding required into Lao account to break even = £200/0.03 = £6,667

Any funding greater = profits to potential offset any negative currency swings against the LAK.

The Bottom line: Hedging in an Asian currency is achievable and with a minimum funding deposit of £7k gets a break-even if compared with Thailand and ForeX swings ignored with extra benefits of easy access to Cambodia for FOC breaks and border runs over12 moths

Nice work Scouse123 – Appreciate your response and sharing your knowledge.

Thanks Scouse123

So in summary:

The basics are get Business in arrival visa i.e An ‘E-class’ business visa which costs US $35 for 1 month and this can be renewed indefinitely on an annual basis cost = $285/300.

Apply to Canadia in Siem Reap and you will not be asked (normally on a good day) for any employment requirements. They want and are only interested in the business visa and as you say possibly an address. If an address is required this should be easily obtained from wherever you might be staying hotel/guest house/Bar/new friend.

Doing this then allows for advantage of the interest rate and more importantly the hedging position.

While there are dangers of police enforcing new laws that result in foreigners inside Cambodia being required to leave the country and as a result forced to close their bank account funds on deposit (I assumed this part) there is however a small chance of ‘certain types’ of foreigners that will actually fall into this category and chances become significantly lower in a foreigner spends less time in the actual country.

But this comes with some danger (possibly)

However (I can see from your further posts response to Laoball) that this comes with a warning that there might be a risk (unclear to how much) this or any bank might lock down your funds and you might suffer the loss of access (not sure if this means total loss).

The reason that this could happen is a change of rules in the bank (unclear what kind of rules or why these rules might change for what purpose targeted) or in fact simply a change in personnel in the bank might cause the lock-down (not clear why this might be the case).

Also not sure if this is a question for Laoball or Scouce123.

Huge response Scouse123 - Thanks

I was in Cambodia 2 years ago trying to open an account I think it was with Canadia - I was at the bank signing up and then returning the week after and applying for 12 month business visa - They wanted an employer letter even though I told them was self employed. I did not really get to grips with the actual fundamentals of the Lao visa and banking process and I had thought being self employed was an option, but this was not being offered as such by the bank to open an account - Hence not really knowing the Cambodian rules at the time I had assumed wrongly I then thought that simply paying the extra $5 at immigration (border) for business rather than tourist and then the $300 to the agent for Visa would give me access - But the bank insisted on an employment letter and the proof of incorporation from the employer that they were register for Lao tax. I did find someone that would provide this, but also felt like I was entering into a process I did not fully understand and it wasn't clear to me how much I was dependent upon the guy and his business to ensure this was sustainable - So I stood down.

It sounds like I really should have another try at this again and be aware also that things have changed a little - That the police are enforcing new recent law and checking foreigners actively.

However assuming that Cambodia is an option open it does satisfy what I want to achieve, which is hold multiple currency accounts so this allow for a buffer across currency exchange changes so any reduction in one hopefully gets balanced by increase from another - Hence smoothing the FX shocks across many and not simply a change between two. Doing this allows fuller access to more of SE Asia with a bank and currency in place and not simply dependent upon Thailand and its rules for accessing its visas or exposed to the market swings and fluctuations in THB rate of exchange.

Again just want to say great info - Thanks

I had no problems whatsoever with term deposits in several Lao banks (ANZ, JDB, PSV from when the rates were up to 15% a few years ago). LAK earns much better interest than THB or USD and you can exchange freely between them whenever you want. You need a Work Permit to open a fixed deposit account in your own name. Kip rates are stable and haven't changed much for several years.

Hi Laobali - Good info - So the barrier to opening a term account seems to be just the work permit - is that correct?

Main Question 1: Once you get the work permit does the access to the term rate remain then forever and not dependent upon holding a current work permit or does the right to hold a term deposit disappear when the work permit terminates?

I ask this since on my recent visit to Vietnam - I inquired if I could apply for a bank account and open a term deposit VND to take advantage of between 6.5 to 7.5% interest return (depending upon deposit term and bank).

Almost all banks I visited seemed happy for me to open an account, but the term deposit time would need to be linked to the length of time of my visa.

Since I do not believe I would be able to get anything more than a tourist visa for 3 moths - My choices were 1 month fixed at 4.4% (single bank quoted) or a 3 month term deposit between 5 - 5.5% quoted from a few other different banks.

Practically if anyone like me was also trying to do this and take advantage of these rates they would need to keep returning to Vietnam with a new 3 moth tourist visa in order to open a new a term deposit interest rate - I am not sure what the situation might be for extending the existing Vietnamese visa for another 3 moths and if this would allow the rate to continue for a new term deposit for an extra 3 moths.

Possibly Scouse123 (on this thread and a long history of being in Vietnam) - Can help with understanding what the situation might be for visa extensions and using this to open a new 3 moth term deposit?

Minor Question 2: How difficult is it to get a work permit in Lao - Is there a strict scrutiny of the employer and the system is highly regulated or is it more like a relaxed acceptance and without too much checking that the employer is actually supplying a real job?

Since I was close to doing my monthly withdrawal using my U.S. no foreign transaction fee Visa debit cards which also reimburse ATM fees and seeing the FX rate drop today I knew "tomorrow's Visa rate would drop also.

Visa (and Mastercard) generally set their rates for a 24 hour period and generally only change their exchange rate once during that 24 hour period. I use the "generally" word since Mastercard sometimes changes rates during the 24 hour period for some currencies. The rate Visa/Mastercard use is generally based on the previous day(s) FX rates. But with bank exchange rates for incoming wire transfers, notes, etc., those rates follow the daily FX rate pretty closely and can change numerous times during the day.

So, I checked the Visa exchange rate webpage...the Visa Global rate was 36.20 per USD...I take my U.S. Visa cards and go withdraw Bt60K around 1pm today...rate hitting/posting to my U.S. bank accounts was 36.20 since U.S. bank use the single messaging settlement approach for debit cards.

Now for a person with a Visa card issued by a European bank the rate today is 36.19 according the the Visa webpage...but if you withdraw today you still may end-up getting "tomorrow's" rate since some European banks apparently use the double messaging method (similar to how credit card withdrawals/purchases post/settle) which means it may not be until the next day that the charge posts/settles to your account...and tomorrow's Visa rate will probably be lower based on today's FX rates.

Great post - It took me some effort to realise some time ago this stuff you have pointed out here - I was amazed that my Visa ATM withdraws allowed me to decide a good day for my exchange and use my card the next day and I had time to consider this for 24 hrs - No requirement to follow real time shifts - Simply view the close of business rate and then make the consideration - 24 hrs to decide.

Great extra info - I did not know before - The practice of Single-message transactions (and I did have to look this up) - But now realise that it does give illumination to why the 24 hrs is available to consider the fx rate - In that they have only one cutoff time each day. Therefore when it changes then it does so for all network participants so that at any point in time, the cutoff time is the same for all participants and is nonnegotiable. Then at the cutoff time the network calculates the total monetary positions for all its client banks for the day’s single-message transactions and hence can only use a single FX rate - not a real time rate for each transaction.

Thanks for the post - Enjoyed its contents

Very good post for those heading to Saigon. Great city and worth a visit at least once.

Also as a side note, If you have a smart phone, you can download an app called Maps.me which is a great map app that does not require data to use anywhere. All you have to do, is download the relevant country when you have got wifi and then you can use it whenever you choose. It is a great app and I have used it in Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam and Australia without a problem.

For Android users, go to here.com, create an account (if you don't have one already). This step is optional, but good if you want to store your landmarks in the cloud. Get HERE maps from the Play Store and download the maps for Vietnam. There are maps for a zillion of countries, all free, frequently updated. Navigation works very well. In Thailand there are even indoor maps available, showing the shop inside of shopping centers like Jungceylon Phuket for example.

Try it, you won't be disappointed. Voice guidance is in many languages, the list of POIs is extensive.

Hey - What a great call hkt83100 - I installed the app in the last 30 min - then started to wonder how it was going to work with google maps - Then realised it is not since this is the full Nokia maps mapping data. Brilliant - I didn't know you could get access to this data for their maps on Android

Then thought - I wonder if Google Maps can do the same thing - And it can:

This is how you do it on Google........

(connect to Internet first) Then - Save an area of the map so that you can view it when you're not connected to the Internet.

1. Open the Google Maps app
2. Search for "HCMC" (or whatever).
3. At the bottom, touch the bar that has the name of the place you searched for.
4. In the top right-hand corner, touch the menu
5. Select Save offline map to save the selected area of the map.

Brilliant -this is just exactly what I needed - But now not only can I use my existing Google maps offline without needing the country sim and data plan. Now also I can compare this existing Google mapping data with a second source i.e Nokia / 'There' app (your recommended app) - If you are wondering - Why use both - Well because there is stuff on Google that is inaccurate and even plain wrong - I used it today in Bangkok and it was giving me false info. I am sure that Nokia will have some bad data also, but now this app makes it possible to Double check from both sources.

I just also downloaded the offline data for HCMC to my Android - It only took up 3.5 MB of memory and I had assumed that the actual would be more by x 100.

I am also now using your recommendation for the HERE app and testing it out to see how it works and feels - Looks like there is simpler and more functionality than Google maps.

I wish I had this installed your app recommendation this afternoon as I wondered hopelessly around central Bangkok being fooled by my current Google maps app - Thanks