spambot

Today I took a further step forward trying to reverse the situation I was in - Identified from previous post http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/685676-i-had-my-british-embassy-income-letter-rejected-by-immigration-for-my-annual-extension-of-stay-ban/ - I actually have taken a number of steps so far (I will post latter once I reach a conclusion with Thai immigration and British Embassy - Both have been contacted and asked to contribute to find out what the problem might be - However please until I get to a clear point of conclusion don't ask questions about the process so far - I will post fully once I get this full disclosure).

Anyhow - One of the steps I took was today to meet again with the same immigration officer that was involved with my initial rejection for my income statement letter (I met him at one of the temporary offices for extension of stay - due to and because of the protests) - And I presented him with support documentation to support my income provided on my original British Embassy income letter.

One of the sources of revenue was from a five year bond that then paid every month into a UK bank account.

He had no issue with this source or this form of income (well at least today he didn't - And I have been invited to meet with him again latter once he is back in his old offices after the protests make this possible - so this might not be the same situation in the end story).

However assuming that he is of the same mind that he was today - And that this source of income satisfies the criteria as allowable income (for extension of stay on earning shown on the Embassy letter) he raised an important issue that initially I thought I was going to sink me, but then found a reply that seemed to hit a silence and some reflective thought.

He pointed out that the bond matures this year 2014 and that no further income will derive from this fixed deposit since the five years was now completed this year. I suggested that rather than considering this as a dead source that he consider this now - not as a smaller interest being paid, but rather a bigger amount of revenue being released from the same place the revenue was being generated - So the £3,000 per year interest that was going away for earnings this year - This was being replaced by a payment from the underlying deposit that was being released which was £85,000 - And this should be considered as earning.

Needles to say this created somewhat of double think for the officer - since if he accepted the principle of unearned income was legitimate and acceptable sources for income contributions then why would he not consider the unearned income from the release of the capital be considered in the same way?

He asked me to meet again after the protests get him back his office and so I will understand more fully how he interprets this then.

But in conclusion I was not really sure if my argument that I actually present was actually of any value since I was simply clutching at straws in that moment.

But then thinking about this afterwards I realised that there is no real difference in the two since the source of the capital was mine that created this acceptable revenue (Thai immigration position) - I was not being paid for any work performed for the revenue (hence it was not earned revenue) it was revenue from my capital and so when I got this capital back it should be see in the same way as a gain for the year from this same capital creating any revenue - just as the interest would be see as a gain and since neither is really earned - Just made available through the timing that was created through a financial instrument - Then there is no real difference - just a consideration of what amount of capital is available at what point in time.

OK - I know that this is subjective, but for immigration if they accept one argument for interest on the capital then they should accept the other for the release of the capital.

When I meet with him next time I do not expect a philosophical or an economics reasoning on this - Its going to be one way decision and not a conversation - I know this and so there is no point trying to torture out any betrayal of brutal truth on this, but it might (just) work (on a slow day) for someone.

So has any one else claimed interest from a fixed interest bond and found it acceptable (or indeed found it unacceptable) as income that contributed to their income letter from their Embassy?

- I would love to know.

- I would love to know even more if someone has managed to convince immigration that matured funds was income and should be considered as just the same as interest being paid from that capital.

Obviously - Only a consideration if an income letter has been challenged!

THEN GO TO THE MATCH!

ENGLISH COUNTRYSIDE WALK

CHEESE!

Ok, thank you very much for a long answer

But still two more things:

I have a question - is it possible, that the main tourist attractions may be closed on 2.02 - for example, Golden Buddha, China Town or Dusit?

Someone mentioned that the sale of alcohol may be banned, in which day can be so?

There are no current plans to close any of the three locations that you mention - Unlikely to do so - This is not about tourism - Its about stopping of Government offices functioning. The only reason that these places might you mention will be unavailable is is the situation turns into something other than peaceful.

As I said in my last post Only my guess, so nothing official here 90% nothing much will change on the day. I would say for your needs it is 99.9% unlikely that there would be any 'planed' closures attempted.

- Golden Buddha there is no strategic reason to do so (just more hassle than normal to get there, but easily reached on foot) since it is closest to Democracy monument and there are crowds to go slower than normal.

Dunsit - Not sure if you are going to the zoo or the palace here, but either would not be a target for protest or closure - Dunsit and Golden Buddha would almost be seen as disrespectful since one is a religious place and the other is the residence for Royalty - so not strategic or likely to have any targeted action and certainly would not be closed by government direction - 99% likely to be open.

As for China town - Not sure how you can close down china town since its a wide and large area with many small alleys and pockets that run off from the main road - It would take huge resources and some more to target and close this space - And what would the protesters achieve by doing this - probably restricted access to noodle soup and Chinese fabric - This is very unlikely attempted closure being attempted or being successful it it were attempted.

Alcohol sales - There are no plans to ban this yet - And the closer we get to the date the more unlikely this will happen. If it does occur on the day - simply walk down Soi Rambuttri http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxh9MJMEgRA there will be a ton of places that will serve you alcohol even if there is a ban on the day - However the authorities will not be focusing their energies in enforcing any drinking bans on the day for the tourists - They have bigger issues to focus up.

- Enjoy your time here!

Loads of really useful info here cheers.

What do you think the chances of a reasonable journey from Airport into Suk Soi 11 on Friday 31st Jan (its always pretty busy) and then away to Hua Hin on Monday morning by Taxi. I know it's hard to predict what will happen but is the Monday after elections back to norm. Also I thought it was a 48 hour alcohol ban all over for Elections.

The Alcohol ban you refer to is for shops and is not for restaurants and bars.

Journey info = No idea since like every big city all have different dynamics for delays and not withstanding the lock-down it would be impossible to predict the time for travel even without any extra layer of stoppages.

Ok, thank you very much for a long answer

But still two more things:

I have a question - is it possible, that the main tourist attractions may be closed on 2.02 - for example, Golden Buddha, China Town or Dusit?

Someone mentioned that the sale of alcohol may be banned, in which day can be so?

There are no current plans to close any of the three locations that you mention - Unlikely to do so - This is not about tourism - Its about stopping of Government offices functioning. The only reason that these places might you mention will be unavailable is is the situation turns into something other than peaceful.

As I said in my last post Only my guess, so nothing official here 90% nothing much will change on the day. I would say for your needs it is 99.9% unlikely that there would be any 'planed' closures attempted.

- Golden Buddha there is no strategic reason to do so (just more hassle than normal to get there, but easily reached on foot) since it is closest to Democracy monument and there are crowds to go slower than normal.

Dunsit - Not sure if you are going to the zoo or the palace here, but either would not be a target for protest or closure - Dunsit and Golden Buddha would almost be seen as disrespectful since one is a religious place and the other is the residence for Royalty - so not strategic or likely to have any targeted action and certainly would not be closed by government direction - 99% likely to be open.

As for China town - Not sure how you can close down china town since its a wide and large area with many small alleys and pockets that run off from the main road - It would take huge resources and some more to target and close this space - And what would the protesters achieve by doing this - probably restricted access to noodle soup and Chinese fabric - This is very unlikely attempted closure being attempted or being successful it it were attempted.

Alcohol sales - There are no plans to ban this yet - And the closer we get to the date the more unlikely this will happen. If it does occur on the day - simply walk down Soi Rambuttri http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxh9MJMEgRA there will be a ton of places that will serve you alcohol even if there is a ban on the day - However the authorities will not be focusing their energies in enforcing any drinking bans on the day for the tourists - They have bigger issues to focus up.

Hi

This is my first post here, so welcome everybody

I have a question - is it possible, that the main tourist attractions may be closed on 2.02 - for example, Golden Buddha, China Town or Dusit?

Someone mentioned that the sale of alcohol may be banned, in which day can be so?

30.01 in the morning I'm flying to Chiang Mai, back 01.02 and both the first and the second February I like to walk around Bangkok. 2.02 in the afternoon I plan to drive to Pattaya (from the area of ​​Patpong).

Can you suggest anything?

It is not my first trip to Thailand, but the first during Election

I live a few hundred yards from Democracy monument where all the protest speeches are being made and its being covered in the world media as being controlled access with frantic protesters - Its not anything like. There are lots of Thai families here camped out simply enjoying the free entertainment (90% of the time Democracy monument simply has bands and artists playing to the crowds). Many people here just seem to be here for this good time - Its a bit of excitement in a less than exciting life for most and most are not really up for much more. This might change, but everything right now is like a big carnival - So there is little to be worried about in the eye of the protest - Even at the center shown in the world media.

However it does just takes a spark to change this and no one can predict anything before it might happen.

If its safety you are concerned about - If things stay as there are (no guarantees) - You will not be faced with angry mobs looking for targets, but fun going Thais with whistles and clackers having a good time in a festival atmosphere - Probably will add to the enjoyment of your holiday, not distract from it.

If you are only concerned about travel restrictions and movement options - No one can predict what will happen on the day and I even doubt this has really been thought out in detail by the protest leadership, but I can not see a problem. Everyday since the start of the protests I regularly travel around the area still pretty easily and freely.

The places that you mention you wish to visit on foot (or tuc tuc or even bus) - Its really not a problem (and the current situation for this is unlikely to change). Buses are a bit harder to find since a number have had to re-route their journey, but other than that you will get to the tourist areas you mention - just slightly less fast than normal.

Just to give you a sense of the feeling at the center of this - Last weekend at the time of the most important speech of the night was about to begin - This coincided with a premiere league football kickoff for one of the better matches (can not remember which, since I watch so much football I get confused) - Most of the outside sit on a box local (Thai only) bars that had a TV's on for the game suddenly got crowded out just at the point of the start of the speech at Democracy monument - All standing, sitting or hovering around the TV (now being switched channels from the protest coverage and onto the football channel) each of the protesters were togged out with their freedom T-shirts and Thailand flags and whistles etc but actually preferring to watch the more important even of the night - A good football match. This kind of said a lot about the underlying passions of the people here and priorities - They are currently not dangerous.

Obviously the heightened excitement and the expectations that will lead up to the date might turn this into something its is not currently - If I was a betting man however I would guess 90% sure nothing much will change (apart from the headlines in the news) over the days that you are actually here - It might even improve your time here.

Ok so you are saying if i go to Imperial World Ladprao, 5th Floor tomorrow, I can get my 90-day report done there?

Has it really been open to all foreigners since 2nd january? Can't find that information on any of the official links.

Thanks

As reported on here last year http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/691692-additional-offices-for-90-day-reporting-in-bangkok/?utm_source=newsletter-20131225-1446&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured

can you get streetview to point straight at the door that would help.

This is the best available - It gives the doorway (without the main front door as a distraction) - This shows just the actual doorway - For clarification - It is left of the advertising hoarding and under the purple cathedral looking window . https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d100.517128!3d13.662293!2m2!1f270!2f113.65!4f75!2m10!1e1!2m5!1sXHPdF-1qCGbKeSMjPFZ2iQ!2e0!5sSoi+Suk+Sawat+54!9m1!6sSuk+Sawat+54+Alley!5m2!1sXHPdF-1qCGbKeSMjPFZ2iQ!2e0&fid=5

Obviously the Google camera van just passed by the cinema on the main road and didn't go down the side alley and hence all views need to be from the road.

street view wait for it to load. zoom out and look around http://goo.gl/maps/7kpGk

then use the "directions" tab to get bus routes from where you are.

When I was there yesterday for some reason there was no way into the front of cinema as seen here - Which is actually ok - since you really need to go around this entrance and enter on a second entrance to the right (you can just see the entrance on the right of this image behind the dark truck) - Then go 50 meters on same level and there on the right - This where you need to be.

One of the stupid reasons I quit living in the kingdom for.

Taking a picture with my wife every year for 12 years did it for me.

Wonder what civil servant, a brilliant one came up with this 90 day crap. I never did it for 12 long long years.

Yup - I know!

What some first thought was charming innocence of Thailand can quickly turn into grinding resentment when it effects your day to day living - when you feel like you are the alien on a string.

However for most (but I really mean me here) - It still feel like its the nearest place so far to being in a paradise - And the payment to be made to follow the rules of a mad hatters tea party is still just about worth it for the pleasure this place gives.

Seems that the Google map link only works relevant to my browser for my personal map id - hence you will not get what I see.

Therefore enter into Google maps the following:

From - Tha Rot Sai 503 Sanamluang, Thailand

To - Soi Suk Sawat 54, Khwaeng Rat Burana, Khet Rat Burana, Krungthep Mahanakorn 10140, Thailand.

Note : The starting point is not shown correctly on the maps - The maps info actually shows the next stop after the place of origin (but Google will not accept the origin / as the a valid point - it will ask you to walk to the point shown on its map if I gave the actual point as the start point) - You do not have to walk to where it is show on Google maps if you do not wish - Just follow my directions in the post to find the origin of where the bus actually sets off from.

And as identified before - When you look at the destination of where you get off on Google maps - It says you need to walk 0.4 miles and do this off an adjacent road - You do not need to do this - Google maps is wrong. Follow the instructions in the post and you will get there directly without any need to figure out when and what to do when on the bus.

Today I used the alternative to Chaengwattana - and went to new alternative Major Hollywood - Suksawat.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/691692-additional-offices-for-90-day-reporting-in-bangkok/?utm_source=newsletter-20131225-1446&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured

For those that have been using Chaengwattana - prior to this new alternative (That has been available from 2nd Jan 2014) then this will be a breath of fresh air.

No longer is there a feeling of tired, unwelcoming distance, but rather here there is surprisingly a feeling of caring through helpful officers that actually smile and want to help if you have a difficulty in understanding something.

I went today and I really liked the experience (can you ever say that from Chaengwattana) - I was the only 90 day reporting extension OA - Everyone else was Cambodians, Lao's and Myamees (since this has been their normal reporting office for a long time prior to the new OA availability for extension reporting).

I was over owed by the extra attention given when I arrived - I went in and I was immediately helped to a window that was exclusively for Visa OA's extensions - It was as if this was the first time that this had happened (ok it is new to this office and it might not happen every time - since the newness is bout to wear off) there were 2 excited people behind me that were calling out to people at the windows as I was arriving towards - I doubt that this would this happen in Chaengwattana.

So I was able to get straight to the point for being there. The interchange was a human - Pleasant and nice.

The process took 2/3 minutes.

BUT there are some takeaways you might get caught out by:

Do not use Google maps from the address - to find how to get there - IT IS WRONG - I know this because i use the maps info on the previous day and found myself 50 mins (by Taxi) distance from the correct address. You actually need to take (if you follow my route) a bus no 82 (from grand palace) - Direction: Walk along Prah Ahtit and then you will see steps for Pinklao bridge on right hand side - Immediately on left hand side the road turns left - 30 meters up this road the no 82 is stationed here - It is waiting to set off at its due time - Hence no nervousness thinking that you are the wrong stop waiting for the bus that might never arrive - So get on this - It is 6.5 Baht and 1 hr 30 mins latter you will arrive at your destination.: https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!4m36!3m30!1m5!1ssamsen+soi+2%2C+Baan+Pan+thom%2CPhranakorn%2C%2C+Bangkok+10200%2C+Thailand!2s0x30e299133dc3e033%3A0x3bd89c862d927024!3m2!3d13.757518!4d100.499668!1m4!3m2!3d13.6623136!4d100.5170626!6e2!2e3!3m8!1m3!1d71386!2d100.5187002!3d13.708607!3m2!1i662!2i442!4f13.1!4i11!6m4!1m3!1e4!2e2!3j1389092280!8m2!1e1!2b1!7m4!11m3!1m1!1e1!2b1!6m1!1e1&fid=0i1

And YES - even this is wrong in Google maps - If you follow the directions given in Google maps for using bus no 82 - It identifies you should get off the bus at the place (indicated in the link) and it says you need to walk 0.4 KM - This is not true - The no 82 goes directly to the door (OK opposite side of the road and about 70 meters past, but pretty close) -

Here is a check to know that you are getting near: Just look out for the Toyota sign (big oval sign high above the normal buildings in height and is very very prominent - this is on your right hand side) and then after this and about 100 meters down from this sign - The road just simply opens up into multiple crossings, bridges and turn offs ect and it does look confusing when you approach this - However the bus goes straight ahead (so no need to understand the complex turn off's) and at this point for about 40 secs of travelling you can see the Cinema on the right hand side - Major Hollywood - It is clear and Bold - you will not miss this (it is not subtle or difficult or hidden - if you are looking right - its is absolutely obvious) . Get off the bus at the next stop and walk back about 70 meters.

When you enter the cinema (swing right around the building by following the path and then enter the cinema at its front entrance) - Do not go to the first floor (Yes it says yo should do this on the instructions from Immigration, but don't do this) - Walk from the entrance straight ahead and then after 50 meters you will see the immigration on the right hand side.

When reporting - There was a surprise (not sure if this is happening at Chaengwattana (please post your experience) :

The TM.47 form that you always need to fill in (with the same information every time) has now changed - Once you hand in your completed TM 47 you now get back (not the normal slip that identifies the next date you need to register your address), but you are given a form that has (as before) the next date of reporting, plus all the information that you gave handwritten on your TM 47 form.

So now you do not need to complete the the form as you normally are required with the same info - It is now in their database and it is printed into a TM 47 each time you report given back to you. And you just have to sign this to confirm everything is the same as last time of reporting

Typical sensationalist, biased report. I now for a fact that there are at least 2-3 pommie retirees that aren't drunk perverts.

Agreed........ they wanted to shock a little.

Interviewing some guy drunk in a bar and one sad person who has mental problems is hardly a good evaluation or cross section of retired Expats living in and around Pattaya.

A visit to one or both of the Expats Clubs might have presented an alternative view..... but they didn't want to do that.

Retired Expats come from all over the Western world, a large contingent of Australians for example.

The UK is failing it's elder generation..... they are often forced to live meagre lonely lives in many circumstances.

If they don't have a good circle of supporting offspring and relatives, they will have a miserable existence.

The retired Expats in Pattaya are mostly a lot happier here than they would be sitting alone in a cold little house in Sheffield with only a TV for company.

The sun shines today on Pattaya.....Thailand has allowed me to feel warm today and generally have a good life, and I haven't even had a drink yet.

I liked the last part of this - Good emotions in your post and very true for many when they think about where they are now vs what is the other alternatives.

Unfortunately news is only seen by most of the networks as being about reporting the extremes. Its not the intent or capability for most reporters to become producers of a documentary (style or content) so as a viewer might then weigh up the evidence.

If 1% of the subject has an extreme angle available then that is enough to get on the radar as being newsworthy.

I have never seen them look at previous extension paperwork when I do mine.

Well they must do some checking between receiving the application and returning the passport because some people have been told they would need a new photograph for the application because Immigrations found they used the same photo last year.

Mnnnn....Actually that's a good point!

I have never seen them look at previous extension paperwork when I do mine.

Yup I know - I only noted this on my last time - I was trying to make a mental note of everything that happened in the process to remember this for the next time.

It happened to me after all the paperwork I submitted and I passed this step of paperwork presented - At the very end just before handing me back the passport and making his stamp in the passport (to be signed) - He looked via computer screen at all my previous applications - Looked like they had them scanned in as an image - I have to say there could be margin for doubt on this since I am about 85% sure that these were previous TM7's I were looking at - I was sat at the furthest corner of the desk away from the screen (opposite site of desk to immigration officer) - so I had an angle of view to what he was searching onscreen. This process of search lasted between 80 - 90 secs and he kept stopping and reading other notes that were not on my TM7's. It felt like a thorough evaluation of the information he was looking at rather than just a quick skim.

I wouldn't worry about the paper you signed at immigration when you do your next extension.

Really! - But since the previous extensions TM 7's are viewed as part of 1st stage (prior to 2nd stage signature) - It will come up as a question - Any thoughts on using a suitable response?

You will not get a multiple entry non-o visa based upon retirement from any nearby location. From latest reports the ability to get one in the UK now is small. Why are wanting to stop getting extensions?

Thanks ubonjoe - Glad to see you were online for this question - See a lot of good solid responses on this stuff from you on the Visa questions.

The main reason to consider this route is to limit my exposure to currency fluctuations with a deposit of 800K (I want to bring money into Thailand when I see the most favorably rates and not try to guess the rates well into the future by bringing in a single lump sum, but rather adapt the funds I need depending upon my situation and rates at the time)

I normally am OK for doing the UK Embassy letter for earnings and Bank book with letter form Thai bank funds, but this time I got pushed into signing a commitment statement to never extend via this method again in the future and the only option now for the OA Visa is the Bank deposit for the full 800k

The full thread here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/685676-i-had-my-british-embassy-income-letter-rejected-by-immigration-for-my-annual-extension-of-stay-ban/

I was trying figure out a way to do an alternative visa for a year and then go back to the OA visa application (doing a conversion) after this - So I could claim that the amount of time has passed and the way I have been getting visa has changed - So I should be considered as a fresh applicant - Not the one that made the commitment statement on the bottom of my tm 7 form.

I know that this is not a water tight approach, but it would add some extra doubt to the existing requirement.

The other consideration is to do what is required by the statement for next extension by depositing the 800k funds in Thai bank and then claim I did what was required (for next time of extension) and argue the point about the requirement being forever for all subsequent extensions (since the statement was dictated to me and I wrote something near what was requested, but not exactly as requested and this could / might be interpreted in a different way to being a requirement as "forever").

Background

I am currently over 50 yrs old – I currently have a retirement OA visa that I have extend this a number of times at Bangkok immigration.

I want to explore my options for my next time for extension

- I know that there is an option for an Edu visa, but I do not want to go the Edu Visa route.

- If I was married to a Thai lady I would have the option for a Non Immi O multiple entry visa you can get one in KL Malaysia or Savannakhet Laos. But I am not married to a Thai lady

Questions:

1. Is there an equivalent of the Non immi O multiple (or worst case just single) for being over 50 type visa you can get from KL Malaysia or Savannakhet Laos (similar to the case for being married to a Thai lady).

2. And for complete clarity (since I am assuming that the answer to previous question is – NO there is no such option for an over 50, not married to Thai lady to have Non immi O multiple) – My only option to have a Non immi O multiple would be to get that from my home country (UK) and I would need to make the trip home at the end of my current extension and then do the same again every 15 months for the Non immi O multiple visa. Is this correct?

Nice piece of work.

Its difficult to generalize and I am sure that there are certain aspect of bias from a mindset that has 'settled' - into somewhere unhealthy.

However there are also those that see the headline and contribute - Not because they are 'settled', but rather they are active in a thought and the subject is real and happening to them right now or they are fearful that it might happen to them or even worse It has happened to them.

Everyday on this forum we all see subjects that talk to us directly that are real: rejected visa (or related), problems with our Thai girlfriends , cheating, dual pricing and scam etc.

I am not sure that all the conflict and reasons used for reading one type of a particular subject is just about a poorly constructed or an unhealthy bias, but rather it might be because of hurt and fear and then respond within anxiety in the pursuit of real change. It is probable that some people on this forum select their subjects and write their words not because they have become damaged, but more because they are human and care enough to figure this thing out to ensure they can keep on taking the chances they do.

If you bought a ticket online via an online agency - Make contact with them - On their ticketing system they will be able to tell you if the seat was used and hence you will know if she arrived in UK or not. Other options open to ticket holder named on the ticket is that the ticket may have some options for changes (different passenger or location) and this information will be available to be known what activity has taken place on the ticket.

To establish contact - Possibly set up a temp new id new social media account - Set the profile to someone you believe might fit someone she might like to friend or connect with online. Send her a friend request and see if the request gets seen i.e accepted or rejected. Obviously if its accepted you can work out the next moves as she will be communicating with you online, but she thinks is someone else - hence location identity or even phone call will be up to powers of online persuasions.

Sorry to hear your tale - And good luck.

Plenty of Condos coming up on Diamond Island with financing available. I am pretty sure they are ridiculously expensive though.

I just read about the development and this is a copy quote: "Prices range from US$270,000 to US$900,000 and each has their own elevator."

Land is also ridiculously overpriced considering it's a proper third world country.

Yes, if buying in the cities it is ridiculously expensive. Head out into the boonies and its ridiculously cheap! I recently bought an acre of land for $4000, 30 minute drive from Phnom Penh.

Interesting!

1. Did you buy this land as a non Cambodian without the restrictions of needing another Cambodian National having some stake in the land ownership?

2. If you did - Is this land also intended for a property build and hence will then need to involve a Cambodian national in (via one of the above methods) in order for the build to progress?

I wonder what part of the actual pepper spray makes it illegal - The pepper or the spray?

Since if simply carrying pepper that could be thrown into the face manually would not (hopefully) not be an illegal offence - Obviously not as fast or accurate, but it is still pepper in the eyes - And so then you just need to find a container that can hold the pepper and transfer it without spraying - That can't be right?

I say give the girls the right to carry and use pepper spray !

If you get sprayed ,you probably deserved it !

All you narrow minded knockers out there have probably got a knife,baseball bat or some other self defence weapon strategicly placed around your home or on you....

Legalize it for woman !!!!

Does the right include same for LadyBoys?