10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Sorry, but travel outside of Thailand for her will be impossible while her settlement application is being processed because, as with her visit application, she has to submit her passport with the application and wont get it back until she gets the decision. Hopefully when her passport is returned it will have her settlement visa vignette stuck inside.

 

It is sometimes possible for a UK visa applicant to have their passport returned temporarily if they have an urgent, compassionate need to travel abroad. But I doubt spending time with you in the UK while her settlement application is being processed would be considered such.

ah ok thanks, so that option is off the books

I'm slightly torn on this, you judge a nation by how they take care of their own citizens, I think we should try to help him and he should in return try to help himself, it's a difficult balance..... but jeez there's some nasty heartless people out there, I imagine living very comfortable lives. I would rather go to my grave thinking we tried to help out a few that really didn't deserve it than knowing it was all a case of I'm ok jack stuff you. What world would you rather live in if the shit ever hits the fan for you?

1 minute ago, rasg said:

I remember now. You probably could have left it a while though but at least it's done if and when you do go for the Settlement visa. Bear in mind that they are taking weeks and weeks now they are being decided in Sheffield. We only spent three weeks apart while her visa was going through. Too much faffing around living and working in a different country and all the other hassle just to get a visa, for me.

Yep I see the wait times are crazy right now, we will have a month in Thailand relaxing after the application goes in, I had considered another visit visa whilst waiting for the decision but Im unsure wether that will go against us - Reason to return would of course be to collect the settlement visa but what if the settlement visa is refused, that may be seen as a reason not to return... it get's complicated!

3 minutes ago, jamie2009 said:

I had heard all the stories about passing through Heathrow  Immigration, we arrived, went too Immigration, only question do you have the travel intenery, yes showed him it, he read it, ok enjoy your stay, only took a couple minutes too get through.

Sounds like you were travelling together, if I ever do a visit visa again I think I will consider it.

2 minutes ago, rasg said:

 

The process from start to finish over just over five years is currently about £7000.

 

I can't remember why you had to become employed, rather than self employed just for a visit visa? All you need to show is that you have sufficient funds to pay for trip. I can tell you now that being employed is much easier to apply for Settlement as long as you have a salary of £18,600 as a minimum.

 

Most of the Thai applicants don't have a clue about the process for getting a visit visa for this country. So many rely on talking to their mates and stuffing money into a bank account to make them look richer is usually the suggestion to guarantee a visa. As we know it has the opposite effect. I don't think you would find out anything useful from a poll like it.

 

Presumably you now have a limited company now? Why on earth did that cost £2500?

 

I bet she is worth it though!

 

Sorry wasn't clear, I switched to employed from a self employed partnership for the settlement visa not the visit visa. I did this now to get the 6 months of employed payslips to meet the financial requirement. The current system for self employed takes no account of outgoings and mine were pretty much zero as my job covered all of the basic outgoings, rent, council tax, utilities, car, food, drink etc etc.

Definitely worth it! 

10 minutes ago, Jonmarleesco said:

I think many of us are well aware of the visa process, pre- and post-.

 

I'm unsure where you got the idea that the arrival card will be disappearing; I suspect you are getting confused with Thais needing to complete one when leaving and entering LoS; that is rumoured to be about to change.

'Outdated’ landing cards to be withdrawn as part of digital border transformation

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/outdated-landing-cards-to-be-withdrawn-as-part-of-digital-border-transformation

8 minutes ago, rasg said:

 

With help of people on here and another forum, as you know, I found no real difficulty getting four different visas for my wife. The first is always a bit daunting like doing anything in this life for the first time. For her Settlement visa I found it a lot easier than the two visit visas as I had 90% of the information close to hand. I just don't like the cost...

 

Rewording your sponsor letter was sufficient to get your girlfriend a visit visa... I don't think we changed anything else.

 

For my wife's first visit visa there was no difficulty and a letter for her employer was a good one, in English, and it did its job. I didn’t go crazy asking for six months, just asked for one month and it was through in ten days or so.

 

If the story is true she came here as an asylum seeker which is very different...

 

Reason to return is not that subjective. You have seen the mistakes on here by people sponsoring their girlfriends to come to the UK. Many get their girlfriend to supply information that is simply wrong or directly contradicts what the sponsor has said in their letter.

 

I hope you don't the Spain route. It will involve you living and working in Spain for a while. It would be a real bummer if you went to all that trouble getting your girlfriend Spanish residency only to find that she needs a visa to come here after Brexit...

 

From my readings the Spanish break all sorts of EU rules over Schengen visas and can be really difficult. The Danish Embassy sorted a Schengen visa out for the missus for Iceland while we waited...

Definitely the help on here is first class now and was in the past for my applications. The rewording you helped me with certainly did the trick, but that is also the point, the circumstances are exactly the same but one was a no and one was a yes. Just over emphasising future plans to marry got us a refusal, when considering that fact it is fairly complex. I wouldn't say it is very hard to get a UK visit visa but I would not say it is straightforward either (although with the right circumstances it can be.)

What we rarely hear on this forum is the applicants views of the process, usually only the sponsors. My future plans are open at the moment, I will wait and see how my GF feels at the end of her visit, the cost is definitely an issue, I have had to switch from self employed to employed already at an extra cost of £2500 a year plus accountants fees. I'm picturing future issues with the settlement application when they realise I have gone from business owner to employed by the same business, perfectly legal of course and as a result of the bizarre income rules for self employed... Hopefully not a problem!

11 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

surely a fourth reason; the applicant lies or provides misleading, inaccurate or contradictory information

after Brexit there will be a 5th, the Tories need to show immigration figures falling to get re-elected

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Over the last 17 years i have sponsored several UK visit visas for members of my wife's family; no problems except for the first time when I applied for a visit visa for my then fiance, now wife, and was a complete visa naïf and believed it was simply a matter of filling in the form and paying the fee!

 

Yes, there are forms to fill in and evidence to supply; but this is true of any visa application to any country.

 

I have said it before, but it's worth repeating. In the many years i have taken an interest, posts in this and other forums together with personal experience and that of friends and acquaintances has shown me that there are basically three reasons why any UK visa application is refused. They are, in no particular order:-

• the applicant simply didn't meet the requirements for the visa;
• they did, but failed to show that they did, or provided so much unnecessary paperwork that the vital stuff was buried in the rubbish and so missed;
• they did meet the requirements, provided all the required paperwork and nothing else, but the ECO made a mistake.

Each year over 95% of UK visit visa applications submitted in Thailand are successful.

 

I think you are over simplifying it based on personal experience. Reason to return is completely subjective, fine if you meet the profile often unfair if you don't. I'm guessing Yingluck who is now in London wasn't quizzed about her reason to return to Thailand.

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The majority of UK visit visa applicants find it very straightforward, too.

 

 

Would be interested in seeing a poll on that... Not sure I have ever met anyone who has said that, even my wealthy Thai friends in Bangkok.

Just asked the gf if she found the process straightforward or not -

2 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

I have a marriage visa for Thailand and have been married for over 25 years but am sometimes still questioned about why I am entering Thailand (it's on the Arrival form) and where I live (it's on the arrival form) and my work (it's on the arrival form). Thais (and others) are often conservative with the truth and the authorities are well aware of that, and the honest ones pay the price by also being under suspicion. Decades ago I worked with Social Security in the UK and the Irish were treated in the same way.

 

Not going to dispute there are issues also with Thai immigration, but that is another debate.

2 minutes ago, rasg said:

Are you talking about a Thai getting a Schengen visa? It's not as simple as my wife getting a Schengen visa because she is married to a UK National. ie. Me.

My friends have all got shengens for their Thai gfs, well assisted them to get one, one is in Greece as we speak with his Thai gf, If married to an EU or UK National it is even easier I believe?.... I'm not saying I know the facts in any of this but the impression I get is for non-EU nationals the shengen visa process is easier.

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 

Her lack of bags is immaterial; as I'm sure you know passengers don't get to baggage reclaim until after they have passed through immigration.

 

We'll assume the people you saw were in fact Thai, and had been on the same flight as her. 

 

So, 30 minutes approx. to get from landing to immigration. Then, once cleared for entry she had to get from immigration to where you were waiting. Even without bags to collect in T5 that takes 10 maybe 15 minutes.

 

I appreciate your making people aware of the possibility of their Thai visitors being questioned by UK Border Force and possibly delayed while further checks are made, in your girlfriends case the telephone conversation they had with you.

 

I also appreciate your frustration; I had similar feelings when my wife and step daughter first arrived with their settlement visas and were randomly selected to be sent to the health centre for a TB test (this was before the days of TB certificates) although I was with them. But overegging the pudding does you no favours.

I completely see the rational in everything you have written even if I don't agree with all of it.

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Obtaining a Schengen visa is as difficult in many cases, if not more so, than obtaining a UK one.

 

Also, having a Schengen visa does not guarantee entry to the Schengen area. As with all visas, it simply allows travel to a port of entry where immigration will decide whether or not to allow entry. Your girlfriend could just as easily been subject to questioning and detention when entering the Schengen area.

 

True on paper, although everyone I know from a Shengen country has found the process more straightforward. I would imagine cheaper too. I believe the settlement process is simpler too.

I am seriously considering marrying her in Spain as I have property there and hold a Spanish N.I card allowing me to work. I know its scorned on but 6 months working in Spain (or whatever the requirement is) doesn't seem so bad. I'm going to consider options for the next stage, the whole settlement process here seems ludicrous to me, I mean the Life in UK test is ridiculous, I doubt many British people would pass it.

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 

You have said it was 2 hours between her plane landing and her coming out to meet you, but you still haven't dealt with the question i asked about the time between landing and her reaching immigration.

 

If, for example, she flew BA and so came into T5 this wouldn't have been very long; less than 30 minutes if i recall from when we did it last September.

 

But if, like my step son and daughter in law, she flew Thai and so went to T2, it could, and usually does, take much longer.

 

 I have yet to read a report of any terrorist attack in the UK where the perpetrators were here illegally. Indeed, from memory the scum have been legal UK residents if not British citizens.

 

I have read of, and known personally, of cases where Thai girls have entered the UK as visitors, only to remain past the expiry of their visa; usually to work. Sometimes with the collusion of their sponsor, sometimes they have duped their sponsor and disappear once here. Very often, though, they believed their sponsor to be genuine only to find themselves the innocent victims of traffickers: Tens of thousands of modern slavery victims in UK, NCA says

 

I don't really care about the first two groups; but if innocent people being delayed at the UK border improves the chances of some poor, innocent girl escaping a life of misery as a domestic or sex slave, then I think it's worth it.

Sorry, yes she flew BA into terminal 5 and only had carry on bags. I'm presuming other passengers were out within 30-40 minutes because I saw many Thai's coming through at that time.

1 minute ago, rasg said:

 

I remember doing the same when my wife first came here and many disagreed with me. My wife took 40 minutes from the moment the plane landed so maybe she was only detained for ten or fifteen minutes. It just seems longer when you are being grilled...

 

 

I've agreed with everything you've said so far but not this. 25 years ago, yes. The big problem with a border free zone is that anybody can move from one country to another within Schengen which is a Godsend for terrorists.

Yes I understand the concerns, we need some control over our borders. Whenever we have terrorist attacks in the UK it invariably comes out that we know they had dubious connections and we did nothing to deport them, at the same time we put barriers up to keep perfectly innocent families apart. The balance needs to be addressed.

35 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I did not dispute this, but did dispute your assertion that she was detained for two hours as, for the reasons i gave, it could easily be an hour after landing before she even got in front of a Border Force officer.

 

You say that her plane landed at 18:20, at what time were you first contacted?

 

Strictly speaking; no.

 

However, her visa was issued on the basis of a 1 month stay, if her plans changed and she intended to stay longer this could be viewed as a significant change in circumstances; especially if she gave solid reasons, such as a job, in her visa application why she had to return by a certain date and was now staying beyond that date. (Note my use of the word 'if.' I am not accusing her or you of anything, you have adequately explained the date change, both here and to UK Border Force.)

 

Many visitors do stay longer than originally stated. Indeed, I have seen posts in this very forum advising that applicants should say they only intend to stay for a month when they actually intend to stay the full six! Not something I would ever suggest as it will only lead to problems, if not when attempting to enter the UK then in the next application, and not something which was your intention, I'm sure. 

 

But,  provided they leave when or before their visa expires they have not broken any rule. However, they have damaged their credibility when it comes to their next application, unless they provide a satisfactory explanation of why they stayed longer than originally intended and how they were able to do so

 

Yes, she was questioned, as some are, but at the end of the day she did satisfy UK Border Force that she is a genuine visitor and she will abide by the conditions of her visa. I appreciate how distressing such questioning can be, especially for a first time entrant who is not expecting to be questioned at all. But I'm sure you accept that not all visitors to the UK and their sponsors are as honest in their intentions as you and your girlfriend. Sometimes the guilty get through, sometimes the innocent get stopped and questioned.

 

BTW, from the immigration rules

 

I appreciate that questioning and detention, even if brief, by UK Border Force can be distressing, especially if they are rude (which they should not be). But when an officer has doubts, which would you prefer; that your girlfriend be admitted after questioning, which is what happened, or that she simply be refused entry and sent back to Thailand without the opportunity for she and you to answer their questions?

 

Finally, you say

There are many who would say the opposite! Especially with the current financial requirement making it impossible for many couples to obtain settlement visas for the foreign partner!

If the questioning was brief, which is all it needed to be then fair enough, I just think the Government have got this all wrong. I envy our European neighbours and their Shengen visa structure.

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 How much of that time was she actually being detained and interviewed by immigration?

 

My step son and his wife visited us in August. From the time their flight landed, as shown on the screen, to their coming out to where we were waiting was about 90 minutes. Yet they were not detained nor interviewed by immigration.

 

'Landed' on the screen means just that; the plane has landed. It still needs to taxi to a gate, park etc. before the passengers can disembark. Once disembarked the passengers have to walk to immigration and then they have to queue for their passports to be checked. At a busy terminal, such as T2 at Heathrow where my step son and daughter in law landed, this queue can be very long.

 

It took about 45 minutes for the screen to change from 'landed' to 'baggage in hall' and about another 45 minutes before they came out to meet us, and they were not questioned by immigration at all, let alone detained.

 

Which airport and terminal did your girlfriend land at?

 

Having said that, as others have said, a visa simply allows the holder to travel to the issuing country; it is then up to that country's immigration, in this case UK Border Force, to make the final decision on whether to allow entry or not. This is true of all countries, not just the UK. So it is perfectly legal and proper for Border Force officers to question any non British national seeking entry to the UK; whether that person is a visa national or not. I believe that sometimes they choose people at random, sometimes something is flagged on the system. Obviously, we have no way of knowing which was the case with your girlfriend; but suspect it was more likely to have been random.

 

I can see why, after her initial answers and checking her visa application, they decided to question her further. Staying in a pub run by her sponsor, having an open ended ticket despite given precise date of return in her visa application could cause concern that all is not as it should be and that maybe she intended to work while here and even overstay (If memory serves, did you not mention that she may work in the pub when you first asked about her applying for a visit visa?). Which is why they ask questions which were already answered in the visa application; they are looking to ensure the answers are the same and, as theoldgit said earlier, the visa was not obtained fraudulently or there has not been a significant change in the person's circumstances since the visa was issued; significant enough to mean that they no longer qualify for entry to the UK under the category of visa held.

 

I do sympathise with you and especially your girlfriend and am not making any attempt to excuse any rudeness shown to you or her by any Border Force officer; such rudeness is inexcusable.

 

Your OP is useful because people do need to know that whilst the vast majority of UK visa holders do, like my step son and daughter in law, sail through UK immigration (apart from the queues!), some may be questioned at the desk and if their answers there raise further questions or doubts in the officer's mind, for example because they don't match what was said in the visa application, then they may, like your girlfriend, be detained for further questioning.

 

 

Definitely detained and taken to an interview room, first interviewed by a man and then by a woman who I had to call to discuss 'issues' they were having. I clearly stated that I own a pub and the accommodation is above the pub, obviously there was and is no intention of my gf working in it. It is my business and I run it professionally, as lovely and sweet as my Thai gf is she is not equipped to deal with my restaurant customers. Again the address on the landing card and the visa application clearly state it is a pub and if it was an issue it should have been dealt with at the application stage.

She befriended a Thai girl on the flight coming to visit her sister who lives in London - she was waved straight through, to me a far greater risk of overstaying as she already has family living here. 

The fact remains, if the landing card and the visa application match - there is no need for immigration to grill on these details - If there is an issue with her residence in the UK it should be dealt with at the application stage. The visa was granted with a public house address that should be carried through. Also specific dates were never supplied, the visa application said a 1 month visit, her landing card also said a 1 month visit. When questioned about the flight booking she made it clear we did not know exact dates but knew she must (should) have a return ticket, this ticket was within the term of the visa so even if our travel plans changed she would still not be breaking any rules of the visa. If strict immigration rules are put in place then these are the rules that should be the concern. If she decides to stay longer and that is not allowed again it should be stipulated or dealt with at the application stage, it makes it fair and just on the applicant to administer laws in this way...in my opinion. 

2 minutes ago, rasg said:

 

Sounds like an over zealous immigration officer to me. I've read a few times that the officers up north are far more pleasant.

 

The main thing is that she is here now and able to decide if she likes it. And you are both together.

Yes indeed, mostly forgotten about now. I wanted to give a heads up for any future members awaiting their partners to prep them well.

3 minutes ago, al007 said:

 

 

 

Idealistically Darren you are  very correct, and it is understandable you were upset unfortunately that is not what the law says

'the law is a ass'

Not massively upset, I got what I wanted after all, but I think the process can be improved.

15 minutes ago, al007 said:

Yes difficult for your lady, but then we all know the problems of International travel, and maybe the two hours could have been a lot worse

 

In the UK as in the majority of countries world wide,  a visa is really only good for getting on the plane, discretion is finally left with immigration officer, hopefully in the UK that official has to justify reasons if he refuses entry

 

And lets be honest if you own a pub it is very difficult to convince someone that she will never serve someone a drink

 

In Thailand a visitor is not allowed to work so why is it different in the UK

Sorry that is wrong, it should be the officer that grants the visa that needs convincing she will not work, they have the time to consider ALL the evidence in front of them. There are no shortages of willing workers in the UK, to go through the tourist visa process and all its associated costs to fill a bar position makes no sense to me. How about detaining every visitor thats residing in London because theres a higher proportion of immigrants working manual low paid work there. What we need to do in this world is move away from this notion that wealthy equals innocent and poor equals guilty.

Immigration has made this country wealthy and saved us during the war, they should be celebrated in my eyes.

Just now, theoldgit said:

The information contained in the application is accessible electronically, it's worth noting that passengers are advised to take copies of supporting documentation with them.

Interpreters are available, though sometimes at the end of a phone line.

guess what.... they did not return any documents with the visa, just her passport...Obvious holes in the system. That's how my gf knew it was a yes because she could feel the envelope was empty when returned.

3 minutes ago, oldgent said:

you sure ? you not going to marry her

hahah... just want to get her here to wash dishes in my pub because low paid labour is in such short supply 

(actually pay my staff rather well before I get flamed)

2 minutes ago, oldgent said:

I can appreciate the difficulties that the officers have to deal with especially if

there is a language barrier but i assume that the possibility of interpreters

are available. ( the officer does not have the full information ) in my opinion there is a lot of grey areas

which need addressed.

I think it is the border agencies job to deal with these queries at the application stage, once granted the entry officer should only be checking that the visa is valid and the travel documents are in order, at no point in the application process does it state that travel dates need to be as stated, only that the applicant has to leave the country when the visa expires. There is also nothing to say that the sponsors residence should not be a business, again if it is an issue it should be dealt with at the application stage.