Baerboxer

The US must be the only country in the world that meddles in police investigations. Imagine Thais telling the FBI to go to work.

I think it's good to see a country looking out for their citizens. They couldn't stop the killing of this poor lady but wan't to see those responsible caught. Other countries should take note.

Kurt Davit sounds truly British more American or German with Indian I would say, and the same about Heaton John Alexander (who the hell calls their son Heaton, bet he was popular at school).

But who cares, just send them to the Hilton and let them survive there.

He's one of the good ones, just the law of the market, mate, and he supplied kosher stuff, so waht';s the problem? Are you trying to tell us you never ever bought drugs of any kind, inhaled or enjoyed getting high? So, who are you, the freakin Pope or what?

The problem, i suspect, is that it's against the law, not just in Thailand but in pretty much every country around the world.

You're already on record here for callilng men fiddling with kids a victimless crime and a perfectly private affair that harms noone, and now you seem to suggest that drug-dealers are innocent too.

You're a wonderful addition to Thailand's expat community. I salute you.

I agree with you Bendix. He's also on record here claiming he induced sexul favours from students for higher grades whilst teaching business English,(presumably acquiring the job through similar gratuitiy?). Now he's a dope head too! And people wonder why the Thais are xenophobic.

yes, no need for the separate line at the arrivals for the first and business. In no any other country I have seen it. Good move from the emigration authority

Try looking harder - Heathrow for one. Ever wondered what the priority lanes are for?

Not right but welcome to the real world students

That's dead right! I remember when I was teaching business English at UTCC (มหาวิทยาลัยหอการค้าไทย) in Bangers years ago, we traded grades for happy endings on more than one occasion. The students were pretty fit as I remember, as can be seen form this youtube clip from UTCC:

the mind boggles!

Anyway, teaching is a mug's game and the money is rubbish, so if the teacher in question got caught with his pants down, time to move on!

I prefer working on Oil Rigs myself, except the students aren't quite so lovely as at UTCC!

Sorry to state the obvious but it seems you are addmitting to fraud in return for sexual favours, which may or may not have been with someone of the legal age of consent. Maybe working on the rigs, far away, is a good idea !

It is understandable why many Thais have developed an opinion regarding the quality of foreign teachers.

Not fraud, they gave me what I wanted and I gave them what they wanted, law of the market, mate! Fraud would be them promising me a bj and me giving them good grades and then them calling the police, or me promising them a good grade, then getting a bj, but giving them a bad grade...er,sorry to state the obvious, and if you don't like it, go back to Milton Keynes and do it yourself while watching the BBC. Long live thailand, land of the free!

No, it's fraud and coercion "mate". Hopefully, Thailand, like lots of other developing countries has started to be more discerning about the academic and moral qulifications of those allowed to teach. If you did this in most countries and someone complained, you'd probably serve a prison sentence if proved guilty; and no doubt enjoy the BJ's there! Law of the market .... yeah right, excuse to take advantage without morals and ethics.

Sawatdee krup, I am also a teacher of English at the university level. I can be said that there are students who use their looks to manipulate teachers. It happens to me weekly. My point, which has been stated previously, is that teachers MUST look beyond the 'sexy' outfits and see beyond the 'flirts' and realize that we, as teachers, are looked upon by Thai society with great respect and it is a teachers job to be professional, doing otherwise jeopardizes 'all' of us. Thank you.

Ajarn Tommy (B.A. Liberal Arts)

Woops teacher Tommy! A few grammar and spelling issues here. Agree with you sentiments though. Teachers, of any level, should be examples of professional and ethical behaviour.

Bangkok taxis have meters? Most of my journeys seem to start with "no meter".

Not sure where you are using taxis but in 5 or 6 years, i have never once had a taxi who tried to scam me or tried to not use the meter.

I use lots of Taxis each week. In 8 years I've only had one driver try it on. I took a taxi from Lumphini to Lam Luk Ka and the driver said, in very good English, "how much are you willing to pay". I quickly replied "how about what's on the meter, krup". He laughed very loudly and put the meter on and said, in a freindly way, "sorry, you can't blame me for asking!".

Appears to be nasty exploitation of young girls for greed. Hope he gets a well deserved stay in a Thai prison followed by deportation to Germany. I'm sure the German authorities will want an interesting converstation. Similarly, the part his wife and business partner played should be dealt with too.

Not right but welcome to the real world students

That's dead right! I remember when I was teaching business English at UTCC (มหาวิทยาลัยหอการค้าไทย) in Bangers years ago, we traded grades for happy endings on more than one occasion. The students were pretty fit as I remember, as can be seen form this youtube clip from UTCC:

the mind boggles!

Anyway, teaching is a mug's game and the money is rubbish, so if the teacher in question got caught with his pants down, time to move on!

I prefer working on Oil Rigs myself, except the students aren't quite so lovely as at UTCC!

Sorry to state the obvious but it seems you are addmitting to fraud in return for sexual favours, which may or may not have been with someone of the legal age of consent. Maybe working on the rigs, far away, is a good idea !

It is understandable why many Thais have developed an opinion regarding the quality of foreign teachers.

Blaming poverty is rubbish. These girls are lazy and greedy. In many counytries much poorer than Thailand there are very few prostitutes.

Can you confirm these countires and the source of your statistics? Prostitution exists in countries that are richer and poorer than Thailand.

"Human Trafficking is a crime against humanity. It involves an act of recruiting, transporting, transfering, harbouring or receiving a person through a use of force, coercion or other means, for the purpose of exploiting them." (From: UNODC). This is clearly not the case with most sex workers.

In Germany, prostitution is legal. Human trafficking is not. This article mixed up both.

Again in Germany, you need a work permit to work. If your nationality requires a work permit to work in Germany and you get caught working in prostitution, you will be arrested for working without a work permit. The same would apply for Burmese workers in Thailand.

And yes, the sex workers have a choice. Many factories in Thailand complain that it is difficult to find workers.

People always have choices. But, a lot of ladies choose the sex trade because it offers more income than the other factory, hotel or office alternatives. This seems to be true in many countries. But, in Asia, daughters are expected to contribute to the family wealth. I've seen this in Thailand, China and the Philippines where families are quite happy for their daughters to work in some form of 'adult entertainment", and are happy to receive the income. A lot of the girls are on the look out for a husband. Many have several boyfriends on the go, all sending them money each month, whilst they still ply their trade, until finally marrying one. I have seen many examples of this in the UK - but, for whatever reason the marriages seem to work. There has also been cases of trafficked girls being rescued by the police in the UK. These girls were brought into the UK under false promises of work and then forced into prostitution. A lot of this was girls from Eastern Europe falling prey to organised criminal gangs. I remember one case from the East of the UK involving girls from Asia,

I wouldhave thought - have a wank would have been the right answer

Good connection ....... Football............ Manchester United ............... Wan***s !

This massive corruption based economy here needs to have an easy movement of cash. I have stood in a Thai bank line many times, and watched some Thai guy pull millions of baht in 1000 baht bricks out of a large bag. The teller does not bat an eye, and takes it over to the cash counting machine which is a fixture in every Thai bank.

I am a bit confused by an international body having an issue with what seems to be in internal matter. I find it hard to believe some Iranian terrorist is flying over here to do banking. Unless they also want to head over to Soi Allah and do a bit of boinking when the banking is done...... :-)

Hmmm - yet the Financial press (Bloomberg) just commented that Thailand is after China the best of the emerging markets to invest in. Still, no doubt the cynics will gripe about the current financial mess etc etc. Reallity is the so called developed world isn't the paragon of justice, virtue, sound education and financial prudence some comments would have us believe. We've seen how morally corrupt and greed driven their banks are.

glad to hear the baby is alright but....

1. why go out at one in the morning into a dark alley in patong beach?

2. why wasn't the boyfriend with her?

when you're five months pregnant...

True, this won't be the last attack to tourist, the Hotel must post warnings about travel alone at night, some very easy basic Mua Thai defensive moves for ladies... best place to post this is in elevator or ladies bathroom. Also leave valuables in Hotel safe, one where you have a double key to open safe, and the security boxes are in full view of CCTV.

Learn Mua Thai basics for ladies ... a 1/2 days training would be with you any where in the world!!!...here in Pattaya, FairTex Sports club offers defensive training for European women, I see novelist women gain confidence and know this is the best insurance for defence and opens doors for further physical conditioning, this would inspire a NEW opportunity for Thai's to seek employment in the tourist industry.

Do you really think anyone can learn self defence techniques in one 1/2 day training session?? Regardless of the instructor or particular martial art, it takes time to learn and practice. Giving someone 1/2 a day's training and making them think this will be effective is dangerous. People learn at deifferent speeds and have different natural abilities - but I've never seen anyone effective after 1/2 a day!

Never look down to bargirl she put food on the table... and she not like to do it but have no choice, Not everybody is lucky to get a university degree

Look, like in any other country, becoming a prostitute is a choice - the easy one. As I found out not so long ago from a charming Thai lady, universities in Thailand offer government support for smart kids entering higher educational establishments. So, if you study hard, you can stay at university and receive your education for free - and the government will pay you to keep studying hard. It's not about "luck", folks. It's about work, 'tis that simple. The Thai lady I work with attends English classes, works full-time and also does her distance studies at university - and she pays for everything herself, no need to sell her body. And please don't get me wrong - the girl comes from Isaan, like many here, and her family is not rich. She just works hard, that's all it takes.

That's a nice story, and good luck to your friend. Sadly, many girls don't get that chance and are forced by circumstances to earn money from some form of sex work - chat lines, webcams, massage parlours, escort services. These are all easily found in many countries, not just Thailand. I'm sure some of the girls do see it as easier and more lucrative than other work; whilst others have been deprived education, good parents or fallen pregnant and desserted. Generalisations and stereotyping aren't usually applicable when dealing with humans. However, doing this type of work, wether by choice or necessity, creates physical and mental risks for the person and almost certainly has emotional affects.

It is equally annoying that some people in many so called first world countries do stereotype all Thai ladies, when they actually have no idea of Thailand, Thai culture or probably what goes on in their own country. My wife has bachelor's and master's degrees and had never been in a Thai bar in her life - yes, she's from Isaan but has good parents. Yet, we still got the "knowing looks" from certain numpties.

In a case like this The South African and certailnly the UK government MUST demand and want evidence a thorough investigation by the so called "law enforcement" of Thailand, Indeed The Uk government needs to act in the same way with advice to their citizens as the Chinese did recently when one of theirs was attacked badly in Chiang Mai. "warning against travel in a particular City". This is justified if a country's police does not show serious effort to tackle crimes against visitors. The only way this country is going to learn that falang are not to be treated differently, in fact should have even greater justice. I hope the family do not have to launch their own investigation , but sadly it is often neccessary for outsiders to do so,

RIP Young Mark Robson

I can't believe you really think this way. Why should foreigners get better treatment as victims of crime than the locals? The only possible answer might be because tourism is important to the economy, but that's just as cynical as going along with the reality that only important people (status as viewed by local chief of police) are treated differently.

Of course if a given victim has a rich family who cares enough to make it happen, the police can be paid enough to rig up a scenario that makes it appear that justice has been served, but that's about the best case scenario, and you won't get it for free.

Asking the foreign service of our home countries to apply pressure so we get special treatment is idiotic, what makes us so special? The fundamental problem of police incompetence and corruption won't go away. If you live here you need to accept that along with the risks that entails. Or go someplace with better police.

You live in a country where your life and treasure may be taken from you anytime without consequences. Bottom line is that it isn't the police's job to actually serve the public or some abstract concept of "justice". Their business is to take advantage of the law in order to make money, they are institutionalized mafia. You can try to improve your odds by being smart and not sticking your neck out, but you can't change the fundamental truth that this is a country where impunity rules, not the law.

Sadly, I think your comments are about right. There cannot be justice or democracy in a country with a corrupt police force, unwilling to impartially enforce the law and provide evidence to an impartial judiciary. I first came to Thailand 21 years ago, and thinks have probably got worse rather than better. Have to accept it or leave, because farangs ain't gonna change it!

Nobody deserves a death sentence. Nobody put a gun to drug users heads and force them to use it. If it was up to me drugs should be freely available OTC from any pharmacy. That way the druggies can drug themselves to pieces without having to kill, maim, plunder or rage anyone to support their habit.

I can think of many crimes, where those who are 100% gulity without a doubt, deserve the death penalty. Drug dealers wreck countless lives, not just the users, but also their families, loved ones and the victims of drug users violence. Countries that have a well publicised death penatly for drrug smuggling shoud carry out the sentence.

why such need in recognition ? Bangkok airport is a mess .... arrival from Europe last week: 600M walk to the immigration , one hour queue , 45mn for my luggage to arrive. plane arrive at 7am , I left airport nearly 9am Well done for a regonial HUB.

Bangkok will never be Seoul or Singapore or even hong kong ..so stop to dream and act , this BKK airport is a big joke

Deja Vu

It would take a lot to clean up the image of that cesspool...

African prostitutes in Thailand??? LOL. I thought it was funny when I read somewhere that there were Russian prostitutes hanging out there at one time...

Edit: Just read on another board that they were earning 3,000 Baht per hour each so I guess some do like brown sugar.

Saw several African "ladies" arround Asoke last Friday evening. Large African minders scoffing at nearby street food vendor. Not usually nice people at all - unpredicatable, easily provoked and complete scam artisits. Beware.

In Thailand, there are "officially" 2 million registered prostitutes (counting only the erection assistants who regularly attend the mandatory Health Check). It is estimated that seasonal 3-20 percent of the female population in the Kingdom, aged 15-34 work as bj provider, regardless the fact that it is illegal, even as 60 % of all families in Isan are the profiteers of the vaginal-wages.

The Uganda snowflakes must become a laughing stock at their return for being arrested for “prostitution” in the “Land of Vertical smiles.” This is a joke as funny and absurd as getting busted for being drunk in public in Moscow’s suburbs or smoking a joint in Medelín!

Interesting statistics - could you let us have the source(s) please.

I hope the Indian schools teach English differently than how the Indians I was working with spoke it!

They do, at least in particular schools. At ABAC I have a Thai classmate who told me she used logic to succeed in her mid term exams. I replied that if she understands and values logic I know she didn't go to Thai schools, to which she replied with her near perfect American English accent that her parents agreed with me and that's why she went to high school in India.

An Indian High School ............ and speaks with a "near perfect American English" accent. ???????????????

Thailands strength has always been the weakness of its neighbours. Once they all start developing, lazy Thailand will be left behind.Burma has

hundredsof magnificent little islands presumably far more pristine than over commercialised Phuket. Great for eco tourism.

Laos is coming up albeit slowly and Cambodia should be ready to rejoin the human race within 10 years.

Biggest problem in Thailand is the country is owned by the top 100 or so richest Thai and Chinese Thai families. They want to keep the status quo. Tobacco monopoly, alcohol /beverages monopoly, pseudo monopolies created by shutting out competition using huge import duties and appalling corruption at the docks and airports. Crappy locally produced appliances and cars, foreign reserves created through massive prostitution industry and impoverished Issan wife exports to England,Germany,Sweden, Switzerland, Korea, Australia, USA. Insane foreign ownership laws and regs, restrictive and expensive immigration regs,.

Thailand is their own private club, so 60 million Thai's and foreigners arent invited.

The government refuses to take the English language seriously so they will suffer severely long term. Thais are not wanted because they cant speak English.

This country has always been incredibly difficult for outsiders to conduct business .

Better options are popping up.

Thai's will just shrug their shoulders because they dont care. Pretty girl PM Yingluck will head off to Milan to buy the latest LV handbag for 150,000 b.Nothing will ever change here.

Sorry to say............. I think you are absolutely correct. Thailand will continue to be the private club for 100 families - no more, no less. Likely to be the place where all the others come to "play". The biggest single issue is the lack of good English speakers. It is so much easier in most of the other ASEAN countries already - they are more business friendly, foreigner friendly, investment friendly etc. Thailand will continue it's sleepy isolationist type thinking until it's all too late.

Best wishes to the OP and fiance in their endeavor.

I came across this thread soon after reading a TV rant about how inconvenient it is to stay in Thailand beyond 30 days (on no visa at all). Then there was the other rant (one of dozens I've read) about how poorly farang are treated in Thailand...the irony being that they are in Thailand to be (allegedly) treated poorly.

This thread kind of puts it all into perspective.

Not really. They are chalk and cheese really. Take the UK (as per the example) - yes it can be difficult to get a visa, but once gained, there is nothing further to do but enjoy your stay and leave before it expires. A British national goes to the Thai embassy and gets a tourist visa - goes to Thailand and comes home - no issues as long a s/he leaves before the visa expires. Both are holiday makers - both have basically the same experience ONCE the visa is gleaned. Why is it harder to get a holiday visa when visiting a first world country from a third world one, erm, let you work that one out - but its the same for any non-commonwealth third world country (worse for may I would suggest too) - commonwealth countries have a different experience (but many also get refused too).

Now, the people you refer to as ranting are not likely to be holiday makers (regardless of the visa they have - or don't have). If you were to compare a Thai married to a Brit in the UK to the same couple here in the kingdom, it is very easy to see who has a better time of it - especially when they are under 50. In the UK (again once the Visa has been got) it's fairly easy sailing, and little hassle other than maybe some delays waiting for paperwork and stamps to come back at each step - but each step IS a step - in the kingdom, it means yearly extensions, continual proof of funds, practically no chance of citizenship or residency, 90 day reports - and if funds are low 90 day border runs and yearly trips for visa renewals.

My Thai wife got her visa 15 years ago - first try and no problem (and that was in the days of primary purpose when it was easy to refuse without grounds based on some subjective guess from some bod at the Brit Embassy) - we were both in our 20's had been courting for 2 years, sent copies of letters, bank statements, mortgage/house plans (show accomodation big enough), private medical coverage (no recourse needed to NHS) and photos and she had an interview - she had good private schools behind her, a military officer as a father and a job teaching 7 year olds which she quit to come over - we had been married one month at the time and I was already back in the UK. When she got there, she had a spouse visa (not ILTR) with that she got a NI number and card, free courses at the local college for English (she already spoke some as she taught it to the kids at school - but at a primary level). Eight months later she got her ILTR and after 4 years her citizenship (she could have got that after 3 years, but we were still working on the old 5 years until someone mentioned it to us, so I checked).

Now, for several years, we have lived here. How am I treated officially? Need a work permit for any job (paid or not - and by the legal definition a WP to breathe!), need to renew my Non-Im 'O' each year (extensions), provide ongoing proof of solvency and even surplus cash compared to the amount I could live on here, notification of address every 90 days (or border run if leaving the country), reentry permits if leaving the country (or lose the visa extension), list of jobs I am not allowed to do, practically no hope of getting citizenship or residency (just how many citizens and residence permits given out to non-Thai descendants since 2006?) - and thus no end in site, completely different rules/charges/fees/prices/legal penalties for me than my wife and kids, far more limits on what I can do or own (in the UK my wife could own a shotgun - we lived in the country - here I can not legally - not that I want one, but for comparison), minimum salary, look at any of the English-language national papers here (job sections) and look how many of the job adverts say Thai nationals only (not Thai speakers, but nationals) - in the UK if you are legal to work then there are very few non-government jobs that a WP holder could not apply for let alone a foreigner with a NI card - from both Thai and western companies, in the UK any foreigner can own a house and the land it sits on (its not like they can pack it up and take it home!) here I can't and my wife has to jump through more hoops than one not married to a foreigner does (and higher back handers to get land reg people to do their job!) and the list goes on....like I said chalk and cheese.

People complaining are not holiday makers, they are people that are, for the main, mostly people with a need to be here (often due to loved ones), but forced to jump through pointless and expensive hoops that does what? Protect the state form me claiming unemployment benefit, free healthcare, social housing!!!! I think not! Mostly it puts a lot of needless stress and expense on Thai families, stagnates housing and land prices, locks out a lot of foreign investment, helps enforce monopolies, keeps a lot of potential free education (of all types) and business ventures away, gives visa money to neighbouring countries, and so on...All in all it really benefits the elite Thais who own those monopolies and tracts of land that they can buy up and cheat poor people out of that sit at the top of the multitude of civil servant backhander pyramids, controlling the rule of law, government and media - keeping us foreign devils in our rightful scapegoat, baby eating, child raping, sex mad, drunken position as the kingdoms official whipping boy. It's not that the ranters hate the Thais, or hate the country, or even want to leave, they just want to be left in peace. allowed to live peacefully with their families without all the above stacked against them and the Damoclean Sword of suddenly having to pack up and leave at the whim of some immigration bod hanging over their heads - and perhaps, even a chance to safely even give back a little to our new home: free education from retired teachers/engineers/medics/linguists/IT people/etc; with safe investment, comes investment taxes and foreign income; with the ability to purchase homes, those half build and practically empty moo bahns littering up the place would start to thrive (don't believe that - look at the urbanizations in Spain - overflowing and continually being expanded and new ones build - mostly English and Germans living in them alongside Spanish - and just in Barcelona or Madrid but little alcoves that became busy little towns like Alicante, Mecia, Torrevieja, Ibiza, Mallorca, Costa Blanca, etc) with the ability to compete for jobs and start businesses easily comes taxes; and so on.

///Edit: Typos

Sound comments sir!

I worked and lived in India for several years. I had a good exposure to the Indian education system, various business groups and the Confederation of Indian Industry. India certainly produces good engineers, including R&D, software etc; and is good at teaching mathematics.

However, when it comes to teaching, learning, speaking and writing English - India is not the place to go. The only Indians I met, who could use English correctly are the ones who have been lucky enough to study in the UK. Lots of Government, Legal and Business matters are conducted in English which creates a false impression. The vast majority of Indian educated senior managers, of all functional disciplines, I dealt with, had very poor English. Unfortunately, they don't seem able to recognise this which inhibits improvement, as they genuinely believe they have been taught correctly.

The two other points to bear in mind. An Indian bachelor degree is not comparable with a UK one. It is more like the UK HND standard. Similarly India turns out large numbers of Masters degrees. I have interviewed many Indian MBA's - hmmmmmmmm. Not employed any. The second point is that, sadly, India is still a very courrupt society. Position and wealth can easily influence the awarding of qualifications - certainly not a meritocracy.

In the interests of fairness - I did meet one Indian Headmaster, who was Oxbridge educated. He ran is own private school where many of my Indian friends sent their children. He charged about a tenth of the price of the local American International school and was considerable better. There are a few "gems" in India - but an awful lot of dross.

what is it with us brits......any trouble / fighting , I'm ashamed to say, 90% chance on us up to our necks in it......

They are Irish, not British!

This is around the 5th post saying the same thing. Guess what, to the rest of the world you are spliting hair. Just like when all Americans are lumped into the same barrel and the US is 38 times larger than the UK. Get over it, to the rest, you are all cut from the same cloth, whether you like it or not.

Really - and you've carried out extensive research in the rest of the world which confirms this? The USA is a country, just like Ireland and the Unitied Kingdom. That means Americans from the USA do in fact come from the same country.

what is it with us brits......any trouble / fighting , I'm ashamed to say, 90% chance on us up to our necks in it......

The article refers to Irish nationals .......... not British.

The difference is minimal, the irish are just slightly more red headed...

Even you mean we are all human - regardless of colour or ethnic origin, then correct. However the previous post made reference to the behaviour of British people modelled on a report of the behaviour of two drunken Irishmen which is not logical.