Baerboxer

Just in case someone doesn't remember, before 2001 elections Thaksin bragged on national TV about buying that Alpine land for a good price. Later it was discovered that the land wasn't included in the list of his assets and that led to the infamous 2001 trial where Thaksin pleaded he made an "honest mistake" of transferring ownership of this land and lots of other assets and money to his domestic staff. Then judges manipulated votes on two rulings to acquit him and that case was pinpointed as the beginning of Thai recent political struggles by Kaset's Truth and Reconciliation commission. Kaset was one of the founders of Thai Rak Thai.

The land was originally donated to a temple by a dying woman, Sanoh argued that the temple can't afford to maintain it and, being a guy in charge of government agency handling the matter, managed to buy it for himself, then sold it to Thaksin, then went on TV and told everyone about it.

Thank you for the background - these guys are just slimes!

Doomed

AGREED, and herein lies the reason that when Burma does get its infrastructure sorted and starts accepting tourists in larger numbers Thailand is down the pan. Just been to Mae Sot for a visa run before returning to the UK next month and sat talking to a Burmese immigration officer for about 20 minutes spoke perfect English, was polite and helpful and was telling me how much the Burmese were clamouring to train airline pilots, immigration staff, hotel and tourism workers etc., hurry up and sort yourself out Thailand or the tourists will go to the nicer place next door, including all your latest arrivals ie.Indians, Russians, Chinese who are closer geographically to Burma(Myanmar). I figure you've got about 10 years of rip-offs and scams left and then its bye bye money pot.

What will probably keep tourism afloat here (for awhile anyway) are the women. Thai women are such a good value in terms of ROI and price/performance.

And, IMO (not sure how other guys feel) are quite a bit prettier on average than Burmese women which tend to look more Indianized (like, say, the Cambodians). I prefer the Oriental look to the Indian look...

EDIT:

So, like most else here, again, Thailand is saved by Chinese blood.

Is this an attempt at satire? You are joking right? If not, this has to be one of, if the saddest comments on TV.

I find the overt corruption more refreshing and "honest" than the more covert and sophisticated corruption that exists in developed countries like the USA and Great Britain. When westerners point the finger at Thailand, I find it quite amusing. Either they are blind to the widespread corruption in their own political systems, or they are in complete denial. At least I have access in Thailand because I am just as able to slip an official a couple of thousand baht as much as the next guy. In the USA, I am not allowed access.

Thank you. I quite agree. Unfortunately, it doesn't make it helpful for most people in either country.

Corruption in western countries is slightly more discreet and works at higher levels - such as lobbying groups etc.

In Thailand it exists at all levels of society and is endemic. Try giving a UK or US policeman $50 after they have pulled you over for speeding, DUI or possession and see if you get the same response from the policeman as you would a policeman in Thailand. If you are confident that the western police officer would give the same response to your bribe as the Thai police officer, then I challenge you to go to the states or the UK commit a crime and see if your bribe is accepted by the attending officer(s) and you walk away from the crime without being arrested.

And I am fairly sure once the media get hold of any corruption allegations against a politician or policeman, for example, they would publicly name and shame and hound that person (rightly or wrongly) until they get to the truth, as it is deemed in the public's interest to not have corrupt government officials. In Thailand the most we see is the cryptic 'a politician whose name starts with Q has received money .....' in the newspaper and then the story disappears.

So whilst I agree that corruption exist in both societies there are subtle but significant differences in how it is handled and perceived by the two societies.

But then a guilty and convicted corrupt policeman/woman in the US or the UK would lose his/her job AND a very lucrative pension

and probably go to prison too.

The problems are all pointed out correctly and we all know them. However, "throw the bums out" is not a realistic solution. A do-able--though highly unlikely--solution is for us farangs and for the Thai government to forget our pride and admit that the solution is on the ASEAN doorstep: Hire qualified, certified, well-trained Filipinos, who have all studied and used English in their educational system (and beyond, and please keep the bar girl cracks out of this) since they were in kindergarten. BUT: You must be willing to pay them the same as the "native speakers" get, a general starting salary of 30,000 Bhat per month. Right now they are hired on a 2nd tier-2nd class citizen system that just simply isn't enough for them to support their families and live here simultaneously. The Filipinos certainly know more than the majority of the native Thai "English" teachers who monitor the classrooms. I have lived and worked in both the Philippines and Thailand for many years, and though the Filipinos don't have the "queen's English," as so many farang administrators want, the only solution is to get rid of the backpacker crowd, whose only qualifications are their nationality, and bring in the professionals for the same money. You know what this requires? Nothing more than the cessation of pride and vanity on the part of both the entrenched farangs and the Thais.

I have also taught in the Middle East for many years, where professional Filipino teachers, of both genders, are subject to constant sexual and professional harassment. They do their jobs well, they work hard, and they don't complain about the treatment. Why? Because they are given airfare and the equivalent of about 30,000 Bhat per month to work there. And let me tell you from much personal experience--they would much, much rather be in Southeast Asia than in the Middle East.

So: Flame away. But if you do, leave the vanity of your skin color behind.

I think you missunderstand the point he is trying to make. It isn't about English teachers, and Filipinos English teachers can't teach Thai. This is about the schools having an ability to teach students to read and write in their native language. To be creative thinkers instead of repeating after a teacher that has be hired becaue her husband is an admiral in the military. To hire teachers that can create a positive learning enviroment and let me tell you the Phillipino teachers won't do any more that the Thai staff allow them to do nor are they the sulotion to a very deep problem. Thai teachers only like to hit the children when they don't understand thinking they can beat the knowledge into them "most of us know that doesn't work". I also am awhere of a shool where the Librarian parks her car on the covered path when rains so the children have to walk out in the rain in their socks only because she didn't want to park out where the rest of the teachers park, her husband out ranks everyone in the school. This same librarian came into the class and changed the lessons plans so that the children would be graded on colouring pictures only. I know for a fact that M-1 to M-6 were being taught nursery ryhmes all year long by the Thai Teachers and colouring pictures . The Thai teachers also came up with the idea if the students didn't pass test that Thai teachers as well as English teachers were to test them again but give them the answers So this isn't about English. i will never understand why all the English teachers start talking about saving the children through English programs or what would be best, because this has nothing to do with speaking English. Which means its not about the Brits,Americans,Filipinos

The world around Thailand is growing. Thailand won't have anyone competent enough to compete with other coutries, let alone anyone qualified to run the country, because the wealthy children who are allowed to go to good schools usually don't use their education in manner that is conducive to this country. Thai businessmen already complain about the lack of skilled labor that is doesn't really exist. Thailand will pay the price in the near future as the world moves to Hi-tech. I think we will see the countries around Thailand prosper before these people get it and Malaysia is a perfect example.

For me....I think they should just leave it...."MAI BIN RAI" China and America are ramping it up and if China has their way this country along with the others in the Asian Pacific will be ruled by China and China will impliment their curiculim

Of course the whole system needs overhauling - regardless of particular subject. (This is true of many other countries too). But anyone who wants to obtain a university degree or study abroad at somepoint will need English. The language of business is English, the language of medicine is English, the language of science is English. There are more people in China learning English than the population of the UK. Lack of English skills is a major limiting factor in so many ways. That's perhaps why people focus on English teaching, perhaps more than they should as the other subjects are also very important. But, many of the comments applied to English teaching apply to the other subjects, and many expat teachers are also used in maths and science.

There are excellent Thai teachers - I know many dedicated professionals who work very hard yet are paid very poorly when compared to expat teachers.

No matter how great a teacher one is, if your level of English is very low you have no business teaching it.

The kids are better off getting no English than learning it wrong and then having to try to unlearn later on.

Correct - that's why I said " professional qualified capable teachers" - they should be academically qualified to teach the subject, as well as being trained to teach and supervised whilst gaining experience. Finland, which currently tops some polls in education, uses this method. But, Finland also recognises teachers as professionals and remunerates them accordingly.

The Irony is that the incompetent officials he talks about are all products of the Education system.

I thought they went to school at Oxford.

If you are referring to Abhisit he went to school at Eton and went to University in Oxford. Nothing wrong with his education.

Indeed, Abhisit was very fortunate to attend these two wonderful places of education. Reminds me of all those left-wing UK politicians who delighted in destroying the British grammar school sytems which worked on merit, something they detested. Oh, of course they continued to send their children to private schools! Looks like politicians have a lot in common - we'll screw things up for you, but make sure we're ok.

Sorry, but do we know that the lady was killed, I cannot see it in the report.

you are correct it only says she was gunned down not the outcome, I have lived in thailand for only two weeks and am shocked at the number and variety of attacks on people, shootings, stabbings, muggings you name it have read about it.

The Thai News is pretty good at printing crimes for all to read unlike the West where many crimes you never hear about...

Where did you get this "fact" from? And, how do you know about all these crimes that have not been reported via the media?

I can't see the relevance of mentioning the alledged victims former occupation other that to make the Military appear gullable.

The relevance is he was a soldier, therefore he gave a lot more than the average punter to keep people's freedoms, etc.. Therefore someone more entitled to a comfortable retirement but it was stolen from him.

You get the spiel; the same media spin as in all firemen being hero's because of their losses on 9/11. Personally, I reckon anyone that choses a career with the likelihood of being shot or entails regularly running into burning buildings as a bit suss.

"as a bit suss" - you mean till you need someone to protect your country and freedoms for you; or rescue you from a fire or other danger.

Somewhat difficult to level a charge of sex discrimination when, no matter how you toss it, there are only two sides to any coin.

Don't forget the edge!

Did DPM-Chalerm fall asleep, and not realise that despite his party winning an election, his government still has to operate within-the-law ?

Why would any of them change now? Operate within the law........ no, just change the laws to suit. Makes it much easier! You'll be expecting a respect of democracy and judicial independence next.

The truth is lots of guys have normal happy relationships with their Thai wife's. What you discribe seems to be neither normal or happy,

You feel its time to move on because.... Its time to move on.

They must be the ones who just know the Thai word for "yes"!!

It's sweet that the OP doesn't trust his wife or her friends.

Nice one.

I really don't understand this. It seems perfectly obvious to me that most farang marry Thai women who are not trustworthy.

No aspersions cast on Thais in general, obviously most farang look for love in all the wrong places.

But are you trying to claim that these guys **should** be trusting of these women and their friends? Either you're rooting for the Thai scammers or very naive. . .

I'm glad you said "most" Big J! In the UK it seemed about 80% had married ex-bargirls or "massage therapists". It was noticeable that this group did not encourage their husbands to learn Thai and were very suspicious of the husband's married to the othe 20% who were always being encouraged to learn Thai by their wives. Your comment is right - but it's amazing how many husbands I saw in the UK being well scammed.

I'm suprised the first court ruled that he was to be extradited in the first place.

The UK does not have a death penalty (so first major 'no/no'), any lawyer worth his salt would have played the difference between the justice system in the UK compared to that in thailand etc. etc.!

And before anyone posts rude comments - I'm not necessarily saying this is right, just that I find it odd.

I guess the first court ruled on the evdience of the alleged crime placed before them, and decided there was enough evidence to warrant extraditon and trial. According to the report, he then filed an appeal citing human rights violations by Thai prison's conditions. Interesting that there is no appeal based on the evidence of the actual crime. He does have the right of appeal and can ultmaltely go to the European Court of Human Rights. Sadly the laws put in place to protect people's rights can sometimes seem unfair on the victims. Hopefully, if proven guilty, he will receive just punishment.

I can see the so-called Yingluck/Thaksin bashers are getting paranoid.....it seems that these farangs can run the country better...

Probably not, based on the current state of many foreign countries. However, history has shown us many times, the dangers of allowing politicians to act outside the law and above the judicial system. This leads to dictatorships of one form or another. Many countries have strong independent judicial systems, backed by solid law enforcement agencies, and uncorrupt civil servnats to try to safeguard their constitutions and democracies. This is underpinned by rights of free speech. The people of Thailand, not farangs, need to decide the direction they want their country to go in. A modern thriving democratic economy in ASEAN, or a third world dictatorship where the controlling elite get richer and act as they please at the expense of the majority. Those currently "raping" the country do so more openly as their confidence and arrogance grows. Keeping the masses "uneducated" smacks of Czarist Russia whilst the absurd statements of "successes and promises" often issued resemble Mr. Mugabe or North Korea. Hopefully Stalin's mass starvation tactic won't be copied!

Allowing a convicted fugitive amnesty by political rather than judical decision sets a precedence for ignoring other judgments the same politicians don't like. These issues are not unique to Thailand but it is sad to see a wonderful country, people and culture blighted by them.

Dumkopf!

The Nation... GACG informal network of of national and regional IP protection and enforcement organisations which have a strong international dimension to their activities. There are currently 22 members covering nearly 40 Countrieslike Belgium, India, France, the US and China, plus direct informal contacts with many more national and industry associations.

"Global Anti-Counterfeiting Group" is A non-profit organsiation, registered in France.

Total number of members that are natural persons: 0

Number of member organisations: 0

http://ec.europa.eu/...=60838305695-30

Any source for the award claim? Anyone?

Ah, mais oui. France, the EU country famed for its stand against all things corrupt, strict enforcement of all EU laws and stringent anti-bribery practicies and business ethics.

"Also, given Thailand's location, strong economic foundations, diversity and its flood management experience, Thailand will be able to absorb shocks and turn a crisis into an opportunity."

They do say that learning from mistakes is the best way to learn! We shall see.

CCTV still published in Thairath last Friday (25/05/12) showing the incident in Bangkok's Bangna district referred to in the OP.

Initially the rampaging technical students tried to get the no 129 bus driver to stop so they they could get at their targets in the bus, but when he refused they shot into the bus where a bank employee was injured by a stray bullet.

http://www.thairath....ewspaper/263224

This is scary - that guns are so easily avialable and used wantonly.

I've been witness to, and even been caught in the middle of a couple of these vocational school gang fights over the years. It used to be they only carried sticks and at least no one got killed (and bystanders rarely got hurt), but now they carry guns?!! One more example of the decline of the country and its culture I guess. Just like everywhere.

My wife witnessed one of these gang fights last year in Pathumthani. She had our disabled son in the car and was lucky to be on the opposite side of the road and able to speed off. She heard several shots and also saw plenty of long bladed knives being flashed arroung. She guessed at between 30 to 40 youths involved, all in their uniforms.

A crime against public transport? What the hell kind of a law is that? They are shooting guns, which is a crime normally, they shot someone, that is a crime normally. What will this crime against public transport cover other than all the other laws on the books. If I am shot sitting in a private car, does this make the crime less or more than on a public bus?

Looking at the state of the bus, it probably is a crime against the paying customers to call it a bus anyway.

They have such laws in the UK and even the British Transport Police, who are a somewhat separate division of the police.

No, it's not a lesser crime to be shot in car than a bus, but if there is lots of crime on public transport then they need to bring in extra laws and clamp down on it before it escalates completely out of control.

The UK does not have a national police service. There are constabularies based on counties or amalgams of counties. From memory there are arround 53 forces in the UK. Included in this are special forces like the British Transport police, who patrol the railways, stations and trains, but not local public buses and the Ministry of Defense police. Attacks on bus crews or car passengers in the UK would be investigated by the local constabulary not transport police.

Why is he not already in Jail? Prior drug dealings and free to continue dealing? These Farangs are nothing but trouble.....

Well, given his appearance and the name Hall, the defenders of supposed British purity can't very well claim he's not a pukka sahib Brit who doesn't look British (whatever that means in the 21st century) or that his name doesn't really sound British.

from another thread involving a Brit arrested by Thai police:

before I even entered the thread I knew I would see a foreign name, not racist or bigoted, I just knew it

Who cares? As long as another drug dealing scum is off the streets. Nationality not relevant - if they're deailing drugs they should be treated all the same way. If proven guilty, they deserve the punishment.

Hi,

Reason to return is a tricky one when the person has no job etc, In my case in Australia i just told them the truth to what our plans were for my wife's sister.

We used to send her money over every month for her and son to help them out (she was also taking care of my wife's daughter to a previous marriage until the ex would allow her to migrate).

Reason for visit was 1 to see her, 2 to say thank you (for taking care of wife's daughter, now lives with us) and 3 to introduce her to some nice men for prospective marriage and ultimately get married to an Australian citizen and migrate also.

Her reason for return was quite simple as i told the case manager, if she didn't go back at the end of the visa i would cut her of financially, and secondly it would mean that she wouldn't be able to obtain further visas to visit or get married to an Australian citizen and migrate.

He said they were acceptable, valid reasons and the 3 month visitors visa was granted on the spot.

She met someone nice while she was here, didn't overstay, they followed the prospective spouse visa route, was back out here again about 7 months after her return on a prospective spouse visa, where they got married and now have a lovely 3 year old girl, soon her waiting time will be up and she will become an Australian citizen.

The plans worked out, whether your intentions are similar or not i don't know, but i would think that the immigration dept are not extremely concerned if another person migrates just so long as they follow the rules, so having a plan for her can help you out with a reason to return.....

This is a nice story and probably illustrates that Australian officials take a more common sense human approach than that often exhibited by their British counterparts.

There are wide variances in the standards of schools, private and government, in every country that I have lived in. In the UK people will move house to make sure their children attend one particular school and avoid others. An American Professor friend recently told me that things are very similar in the US - widely different standards. The problems of establishing an effective education system that reflects the needs of children in the challenging rapidly changing societies we now live in are not unique to Thailand. However, the polarisations between standards in Thailand are greater than other countries I've lived in. I do see many parents, who are in a position to do so, shop arround and look for the best schools they can afford. This doesn't help the children of poorer familes reliant on state schools.

I know many Thai teachers who are hard working dedicated professionals, who would love to see education really overhauled. Equally, I have met a few abysmal ones who really ought to be doing a different job (Thai and non-Thai).

Finland and Korea are often cited as good current models. Thailand is still seen as one of the developing emerging countries to watch by many investment strategists, and should have the confidence to invest in a robust education system which is an essential part of filling that vision.

Good on them for catching a thief - it does not matter if they are not like CSI Miami.

We can be so negative some times.

I agree dban. A taxi driver recently lifted my iPad on the way to Suvanabhumi for a very early morning flight. (Very clever professional thief, just enough distraction). I reported the theft and was able to provide licence plate and id info courtesy of estate security. I returned after 6 days away and the police had left a message for me to call them. The investigating officer was off-duty but still took the trouble to call us back. The driver had been questioned but of course denied everything. These thiefs pass them on very quickly and their contacts know to quickly get rid of sims etc etc before they sell them on.

The police here showed a lot more interest than I would have got from police in the UK based on past experience. So indeed, "good on them" for catching a thief.