thenoilif

Wow, finally a problem topic that TV BMs can actually provide credible ideas about. 

5 hours ago, impulse said:

If his predictions were a comfort for the families desperately waiting for the outcome, kudos to the guy.

 

Edit:  Making the prediction may have been easy.  Achieving a status where anyone gave a hill of beans what he predicted was the mean feat.

 

That's why it doesn't matter that anyone on here could have made the same prediction.  Nobody cares.

 

 

 

Well said.

Thailand is a Buddhist country and in many ways it helps to promote positive thinking among its followers. There’s not a whole lot of

negative things one can really say abou it’s core teachings, unlike many western ideologies. I think that a lot of people on here could definitely use some of that given the amount of depressing viewpoints that are expressed in every thread.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

It's looking now that they are probably headed towards diving them out after they regain some strength and get some training. No choice is without risk. Almost as much drama as the England Colombia shootout last night.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

Comparing a life and death situation to a football match...probably a joke but not one in good taste.

I do agree though that they are probably going to dive them out. I think the pending rains may pose a lot of unforeseeable issues that the rescuers may not want to risk battling through. 

6 hours ago, Thian said:

In an interview on the BBC a guy said that none of the kids could swim or dive so it will be hard to get them out.

 

Well that's another job for Thailand, make sure the kids all can swim!

I'll make a deal with you. I'll petition the Thai government to put this to a vote if you petition yours to get schools to teach their students to think logically and do a bit of research before providing an opinion. 

In America, the majority of public schools have swimming pools. Many houses have swimming pools. Guess what, over 50% of Americans can't swim. 

In Thailand, public schools don't have swimming pools. Some international schools have them. In a provincial area like Chiang Rai, the only place with a swimming pool are a handful of resorts and a couple of new condos. There are waterfalls and rivers but they are generally not the safest to learn to swim in. 

Statistically, countries, especially Third World and Developing countries that have a lot of waterways, heavy flash rain, and long coastlines logically have higher rates of drowning and even an experienced swimmer can easily drown in flood waters and rapidly moving water. 

In addition, swimming is just not a popular activity for the vast majority of Thais due to the intensity of the sun so most don't bother to learn. Its the same with general exercise for many obese westerners. 

Lastly, ordering an entire nation to do something that most don't want to do seems a bit dictator like. I figure you'd be against this sort of thing given your past comments against the thai government.

1 minute ago, phetpeter said:

No not all the cave has water in it! Plus they have jack hammers etc. How is that so different to drilling a shaft? They have enough of people and it can be done.  Not all the areas are small just full of water the pipes would allow for a fast transition without the concerns of outcrops and uneven footings. 

Actually according to reports the vast majority of the passage between the entrance and where the boys are is completely filled to the ceiling with water. This was one of the main reasons why it took so long to get there. They had to be extra cautious because there was no place for them to go up for air if needed. 

Some of the access cede points are also barely big enough for a very small man to get through. 

But hey give you an A for Amagination.

6 minutes ago, phetpeter said:

A flexible full body suit with flexible air hose attachment, these are small slim boys, they could also be sedated air tubes inserted and a chain of divers passing the parcels! or fexile tunnels placed that the kids could crawl through! set up right the kids could all be out in hours once the equipment is set up.

2.5 km of fun tube pulled through a labyrinth of sharp pointy rock Full of rushing water. 

Genius. I think we have a winner folks.

2 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Did it say closed?

No it said something to the effect of starting in July and through to ______ there is risk of flooding.

4 minutes ago, jossthaifarang said:

You make a good point, and yes this is a discussion forum. Just want to make a few points here: 

 

     - They have gone into a cave to explore it in the first place and done so many times in the past, so I don't believe any one of them are claustrophobic.

 

     - They are between 10 and 16 years old, and are Thai so yes, they are small.

 

     - They don't need to see anything if they are being helped through the tight spaces by experienced divers.

 

     - They can use winches and ropes to help pull them against the currents.

 

Now, I am not trying to start an argument, so please don"t. Yes I do have full faith in the rescue team that has done this well to get to this point, but after reading the 4 month food supply idea. I lost a little bit of that faith mate..

Walking or crawling through a cave with lights is completely different than putting a breathing mask on and swimming and squeezing through tight spaces that you cannot see against a rushing current. A totally different sensory experience. They cannot afford a single freak out once they get to a certain point in the cave. 

If they do end extracting while the cave is still flooded I imagine that they will bind their limbs. Too risky to let them freely use them in the event they panic and try to rip off masks or other diving apparatus. 

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Neither do you apparently.

 

These kids haven't been in a firefight in Kandahar, barrel-bombing in Syria or a US-Mexico border detention facility so cool your PTSD jets. Some will have bad dreams, wet the bed and some may fear the dark but they won't succumb to what you claim.

 

Practice what you preach?

I tend to agree with you. 

Scientific studies have shown that PTSD is much more prevalent in affluent countries. While there may have been some fear of death experienced by these boys, they were together, and my guess is that they heard the rescuers coming well before they were found which may have kept their spirits up. I've done water only fastings for 7 days before, throw in the lack of sensory stimulation and the body can go into a sort of hibernation state that keeps one's health (mental/physical) from deteriorating as fast it would in other types of situations. 

Definitely, much different than the trauma that one experiences from being physically or emotionally abused, being in the middle of a war and seeing a friend die or having to kill someone else, or being a first responder.

10 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

Very brief mention in this link at 11.30am on Friday ... http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/live-updates-teenager-football-team-trapped-thai-cave/

Only saw mention of 1 car not several. 

5 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Given that earlier today, the news reported several cars at the rescue site being broken into and burglarized, can you see why they may want to control access to a disaster zone? 

 

How many foreign heroes in 2004 came to loot the area while the authorities were too busy to watch them all?   It's not unbelievable at all.  

 

 

Have a link to this? I havent seen any stories about looters on the tele or in internet print.

44 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Really? Could you survive for over a week with no food or water in what for most of the time would be total darkness, and with having no way of tracking time?

And maybe I've missed it in all these different threads, but has no-one questioned the idiocy of taking a group of kids into the caves during the rainy season when floods could occur at any moment?

At this point in time and given the circumstances, I don't see why that last point is even relevant. But, if the coach comes out of this alive you can go march down to the hospital and demand an answer to your question if that mostly what you're concerned about.

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

Does Thailand not have a construction division that could build roads and bridges so they can get drilling equipment to the right place?

 

I heard they only need to drill 60m to get down to Pattaya Beach.   

Given the terrain and weather, I think it would be near impossible to stage a drill big enough to make a hole large enough to get through the rock and to the Pattaya Beach chamber and be of any use. There also the danger of cave ins and such. 

3 hours ago, seajae said:

could be contaminated with all the exhaust fumes and those smoking around the area. 

 

What do you think is actually happening? All of the cars are circled around the tent where the tanks are, with their tail pipes pointed inward while all of the rescue workers use the tent to smoke cigs? 

They're in the middle of the rainforest during the rainy season, the air is likely to be quite clean. 

22 hours ago, poohy said:

Now there serious question here

This has been troubling me if these boxes can float along the waterways to the kids

Surely there must be gap between water and ceiling to enable this

if so why cant divers get through then?

The boxes are 1) not living beings and can be thrown into muddy water with zero visibility and just go with the flow, humans are quite delicate and things like pointy rocks cut or impale us quite easily and kill us 2) the boxes are small, a grown man with a scuba tank on his back is quite big. 

Based on some of the videos I've seen, these passages are often narrow and you have to squeeze through to get past them. It may be a situation where they would have to remove their scuba gear and work it through separately to just be able to move forward. Doing this in clear blue seas with very little current is hard enough, imagine doing it in a confined space, unable to see, and water rushing past you. 

Edit: The boxes have neutral buoyancy, meaning that they don't float on top but in the middle of the water column. This reduces the chance of them getting hung up on the ceiling.

Reports have stated that one of the reasons why the divers have had to be overly cautious is that the passage is completely flooded so there is no air, and this goes on for around 2.5 kilometers. In normal conditions, It's risky to traverse this distance without having access to air, in this case, its close to suicidal. I give these Seal divers a lot of credit for their efforts in trying to get these boys out alive.

6 minutes ago, Artisi said:

That may well be true, but there was official signage that was misleading resulting in the current situation. 

No sign, maybe the coach may have well considered the implications of entering the cave, and then maybe he wouldn't - but that's irrelevant, as he probably trusted the sign. 

 

Proves the point that nature is unpredictable.

10 minutes ago, Artisi said:

One small point, they didn't ignore any warning sign, the warning sign is incorrect in its information.

Further, the sign should actually be based on  current weather conditions and updated daily especially at this time of year, certainly not a dangerous arbitrary fixed date -

as has now been demonstrated. 

 

But will anything change, probably  not. 

3

Been rocking climbing and cave diving in the past and several locations around the world and there are typically no signs that provide this sort of up to date information onsite. 

America has possibly the most restrictive protocols when it comes to popular eco-sports places but there are so many that aren't regulated. 

This is way up in Chiang Rai. I don't know if you've ever been there but once you get out away from the city, you're more or less able to do what you want. Actually, you're mostly able to do what you want in regards to your own personal safety in the city. Not a bad thing. 

12 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

That, coupled with 'loss of face', has it more or less nailed on.

This is such a farang thing to say. 

The whole face thing gets so blown out of proportion by ignorant foreigners. 

If face was such an issue, you would have seen incidents like this stemming back generations and a downward trend due to older generations being more inclined to believe in such things. 

Its more likely due to what the expert said, a lack of maturity in today's youth, drugs/alcohol, and poor and abusive upbringing. More or less the same things that cause young people the world over to commit violent crimes. 

On 6/3/2018 at 3:42 PM, Raymonddiaz said:

Lying and making someone trust and believing in you in order to gain advantages is scam. No other word. These are scams... Please tell me what word can I use? Conning? 

Stupidity. Egotistical. Life. 

In this day and age and with all of the stories of heartbreak of a foreign man at the hands of a Thai woman that are littered all over the interwebs, you'd be a complete idiot to fall for this sort of thing. 

Also, there is a lot of this going on from both sides. How many foreign men of a mature age come here and promise the world to some bar girl only for a lady to find out that the guy is some poor schlub from Newham. 

Common sense prevails in this life and you're going to lose when you think that you will have a high chance of a happy long-term relationship with some 22-year-old mother of 2 that you just met whose profession is to pretend to like you for a living. 

1 hour ago, torrzent said:

False assumption...PD is as much about the naive foreign man with the beer goggles on, more than any purported cliches to which you refer.

You haven't read it then. It covers every Thai woman cliche in the book, literally. You can blame it on beer but the main issue at the center of every single one of these incidents is that the guy's ego won't let him see the true reality of things even when its right in his face and in bright neon pink no less. 

They say love is blind but I tend to find the saying 'if you play with it too much you'll go blind' to be more appropriate here. 

31 minutes ago, torrzent said:

Had he read Private Dancer, this never would have happened

The scheming Thai wife is a cliche. No need to read about it. 

The problem isn't with the women. It's the men. They let their egos get the better of them every time.