sunshine51

Win 8.1 is ok by me. I'll wait a while before considering Win10...give MS time to

hopefully work out all the bugs & hiccups.

What's the difference between a flak jacket and military grade bulletproof vest?

I will only discuss military grade body armour here...too many civilian variants that claim military usage

to talk about & most of those claims are false.

There really is no such thing as a "bulet proof vest" as "bullets" come in many sizes & proceed to target

in varying velocities. Body armour is intended to spread out the impact area of a projectile (bullet) over

a wider area than the area of a normal impact which is very small. Most "bullets" lose 70% of their

velocity upon impact with a target regardless of what the make up of the target is...ie...flesh, wood, steel

etc. The kevlar or whatever composite material is used, to include experimental spider web, takes the

initial "hit", 70% of the velocity is lost at that moment & the material spreads out the shock wave from

the "hit" in a manner similar to a stone tossed into a pond...relatively a circular pattern whch spreads

the "bullet" energy outwards instead of the "bullet" concentrating it's impact velocity to a relatively

small area. The nose of he "bullet" will also be blunted by the body armour upon impact causing a further

and faster reduction in velocity. The "bullet" energy, measured usually in foot-pounds or meters-kilos

is not reduced by the body armour so while the target may sustain the hit without being penetrated the

target will usually get knocked over...especialy if the target is a human being and said target may receive

some nasty bruising & if a chest shot...some broken bones such as the sternum or ribs...depending on

the range from the shooter.

Another variabe with body armour is distance...meaning the distance from the shooter to the target.

Further away the shooter is the better chance of survival with body armour...even down to level 2A.

To a trained marksman or sniper defeating body armour is nothing more than a well placed head shot

or by using a larger caliber weapon...say from .338 and upwards....body armour will not help at all.

Ballistic body armour, the type I have mentioned above is much different from the body armour which

protects the wearer from knives & other sharp oblects such as ice picks. I won't discuss that type here.

A "flak jacket" is just that...it is supposed to stop flak (shrapnel) from entering the center mass of a

human being (torso-front & back) at some distance from the item generating said flak/shrapnel.

Shrapnel looses it's velocity relatively faster than a bullet does and that loss of velocity is dependent

upon the size of the particular piece of shrapnel. In other words...large pieces lose velocity faster

than small pieces do at a predetermined radius from the explosion creating the shrapnel. But all

pieces of shrapnel from an explosion do not travel as far as "bullets" do simply because the

shrapnel is not pushed down a barrel. Mind you shrapnel can be quite large...say a tail assembly

from a general purpose 500 pound aerial bomb down to the size of a grain of sand and anything

in between. Shrapnel sizes depend on what type of weapon s being used....hand grenade, mortar

round (many diferent sizes there), RPG's, artillery rounds and dumb or smart bombs.

Most of the older flak jackets (Vietnam era) are no longer used mainly because they're too damn

heavy because the armour inside the carrier was usually 1/4 or 5/16 inch thick steel armour plate.

These plates were flat or curved (bit of comfort to the wearer but not much) and covered the wearers

front & back. They weighed a ton...or so it seemed.

Today's body armour is becoming lighter in weight and slightly more comfortable however when

you add up what a soldier carries into battle plus the body armour (if the soldier decides to wear it)

that soldier is humping plenty of kilos & the weight causes one to wear down quickly which reduces

battle effiency quickly.

There is Level 4 body armour available today that will take multiple hits with 7.62x39 or 7.62x51

that will enable high survivability of the person wearing it....but it's still heavy...and very expensive.

However...if the bad guy doing the shooting uses a 12.7mm (.50 cal) no body armour of today

will save the wearer.

Google terminal ballistics vs body armour for more info....the nfo is out there. What I have written

is from personal experience beginning in 1971 through to 2008.

Hope this helps you & other readers.

When I lived in Hong Kong...I know...it's not here...so what....I wanted to get

better body armour than the news bureau I worked with had imported into HK.

I consulted a few expat coppers i knew and even though it was possible to

legally own body armour it was not without great difficulty obtaining it...legally.

I was intrduced to an arms dealer who carried not only firearms but much better

body armour...Level IIIA- Level IV. The dealer happened to have the carrier

(vest) and two L3A plates on hand so I paid the money, he handed me the

paperwork and thus began 3 weeks of footwork on my part.

Doing the stuff at RHKPD was a breeze and was accomplished within a few

days. It was HM Customs that took the time. Three interviews, two visits to

my flat and a ream of paperwork to be filled out. The only item I needed

to buy after the purchase of my set of body armour was a steel locker

suitable for the storage of firearms...that was rather pricey as it's construction

is very much unlike a metal gym locker but also quite like one in looks.

The firearms locker is made of steel armour plate and weighs a heap of kilos.

After the purchase of the locker and getting it delivered to the flat I had to

set up a time with both RHKPD & HM Customs to view my "installation".

That was accomplished in a day or two and the visit happened, a few

photos were taken, papers were signed appropriately and in the end I

had a license for my passive body armour & went to pick up the goods

from my new friend, the arms dealer.

I was sent two registered letters for the final cards that allowed me to

transport the body armour from flat to office to airport or flat to airport

and one was the "license".

Under the laws of HK at the time...and many other countries out here,

a set of body armour even though passive is still considerd an offensive

weapon. Why? It was explained to me that it would be fairly easy to rob

a bank and facilitate a good getaway whilst getting shot at wearing one.

That was just for starters

So it's a connundrum according to the law...and that's probably why the

HK photog got popped...sad really. I used to keep mine in checked

luggage...never carry on...mainly because old L3A & L4 was kinda heavy.

Never had a problem transporting this way...which is the proper way to

transport when flying.

^^^ Outta likes Geriatrickid. Well stated IMO.

My late father was a fighter pilot during WWII out here

in the Pacific Theatre and every now & then he'd tell

me a small bit about his war experiences. The IJA soldier

was a well trained & battle hardened soldier...same applied

to the IJAF pilots. mind you he never really talked much

about his wartime experiences and 40 years after participating

in my own war out here, I understand why he didn't say much.

His reasoning was fairly simple...it is too horrific for you to

comprehend...end of story. And it doesn't need to be a

World War to be horrific...a nasty low intensity conflict will

do.

There was a plan for the invasion of Japan named Operation

Downfall which comprised two main components; Operation

Coronet & Operation Olympic. Had Operation Downfall been

set in motion the war in the Pacific may well have lasted at

least 4 more years (rough estimate) or longer, and the casualty

figures for just the US would be in the range of between 500,000

to a million fatalities...and this is also just a rudimentary estimate.

Why? Because the US military would not only be fighting the

Imperial Japanese Military on their own soil...the US military

would also have to fight every Japanese person who could

heft any type of weapon. And this included every man, woman,

child & possibly dog.

There were plans to use nuclear weapons during the two phases

of Operation Downfall with about 7 devices that would be ready

when needed. However...there were arguments regarding their

usage due to what little was kown about fallout at that time.

Yes...the bombings of Hiroshima & Nagasaki were horrific events

but during war horrific events happen with horrific regularity.

Many lives were saved on both sides;Japanese & American, by

dropping those two nuclear devices compared to how many would

have perished had Operation Downfall commenced.

Enclosed is a PDF file...for those who may be interested...

read it.

We are constantly told that many American lives would be lost attacking Japan, but it was never necessary to invade. With total air supremacy, there was no need to put a single American GI on Japanese soil to gain surrender. However, the American high command have never been slow to sacrifice their troops in poorly executed warfare. Just look at Vietnam where thousands of lives were lost due to incompetent leadership. The Australians and New Zealanders lost very few in comparison because their tactics were far superior, despite pressure from the Americans to implement bad tactics in search of a faster resolution. Luckily for the ANZ troops, their leaders refused to be intimidated.

I did 4 years between Vietnam & Cambodia with the US military..March 1971-April 10, 1975...I know about

bad decisions and I also know there were good decisions made too. All in all I spent 10 years in the

Army-1969-1979 and know of even more good vs bad decisions. My old man retired a Rear Admiral (O-7)

in 1965 after spending 45 years on active duty beginning as an ordinary seaman (E-0). I tended to believe

what the old man told me about the war in the Pacific. He also witnessed the nuclear tests conducted in the

Pacific and when I asked him what a test looked like his reply was simply this..."The most frightening I have

ever seen."...to the Castle Romeo test in 1954 around Bikini Atoll.

This topic is not about bad decisions made during wartime it is a poll of sorts concerning the usage of the

first nuclear devices in wartime...should or should not have been used. if you have read the PDF file I

attached you can come to our own conclusion. There's more factual info on the web concerning how the

so called blockade of Japan was going to go and the state of the Soviet forces available to block off any

Western Japanese military movement & supply routes plus the Soviets were ready to invade Manchuria...

Japans only real remaining source of raw materials. And that of the state of affairs within the Imperial

Japanese military & war council, which was split 50-50 whether to surrender or continue the war. There

was even an attempted coup d'etat to remove the ones who opted for surrender but that failed. The first

two nuclear devices ever used in war had already been employed beforehand. Seven more nuclear

devces were being readied....should the Japanese war council & Emperor not accept the Potsdam

declaration and Operation Downfall had to be implemented. More nuclear devices would be made

available as Operation Downfall needed them and at that time, yes America was the only nation on

this planet who had "The Bomb"....and America would have used them to completely obliterate Japan

had not the surrender taken place at noon, 15 August 1945.

Thank God, or whomever you pray to, that it took ony two nuclear devices to convince the Japanese

leadership that surrender was their best option. However...the word Surrender was never used by

Emperor Hirohito....

A short & partial transcript of his "Surrender" speech....

"Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to

do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should we continue to

fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but

also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.

Such being the case, how are We to save the millions of Our subjects, or to atone Ourselves

before the hallowed spirits of Our Imperial Ancestors? This is the reason why We have ordered

the acceptance of the provisions of the Joint Declaration of the Powers....

The hardships and sufferings to which Our nation is to be subjected hereafter will be certainly

great. We are keenly aware of the inmost feelings of all of you, Our subjects. However, it is

according to the dictates of time and fate that We have resolved to pave the way for a grand

peace for all the generations to come by enduring the unendurable and suffering what is

unsufferable."

Here's a chart depicting what Japan still "controled" as of 01 August 1945...

1945-08-01JapWW2BattlefrontAtlas-a.jpg

Here's two before & after pix of Hiroshima & Nagasaki...remember, compared to the nukes

available today the only two ever used in war are small in yield...approx 15Kt & 21kt

respectively...

Hiroshima...

Hiroshima_1945.jpg

Nagasaki...

Nagasaki_1945.jpg

Good source of info about the last days of the Japanese Empire on Wiki

which I must say is pretty darn good....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan

It is not possible to consider if using the bomb was a good thing or a bad thing without considering the American lives lost if the US invaded. My point is that there was no need for a land invasion, but the US high command would have used one because they wasted their men with bad tactics.

IMO the only ones that can really say if it was justified or not would be the US troops that would have been sent into Japan had the Japanese not surrendered. I'm pretty sure they would have been exceedingly happy that so many Japanese lost their lives to force a surrender.

Clarify your point there was no need for an invasion had the two bombings never taken place.

How can one consider American & possibly Allied lives lost if the invasion had taken place

when one didn't take place. All one can do is estimate losses...a best guess scenario. I

posted info on casualty estimates in my OP.

Are you also saying that the US military planners made bad strategic decisions when sending

men into war after the US entered the war? Show me a bad dcecision & how you would have

done it differently. Remember...the Pacific theatre was rather large. So...from the Battle of

Midway to off the coast of Japan in less than 4 years was facilitated by making bad decisons?

Bullshit.

Had the Trinity test failed there may well have been Operation Downfall commencing in short

order however we don't know that these days do we because it took two nukes to force the

Japanese surrender. Remember the Japanese "high command" was split 50-50 to either

surrender or continue to fight and the Emperor was with the 50% who wanted to continue

the fight...until Nagasaki got nuked...and then it took another 9 days for Hirohito to come

out with the so called "surrender" speech in which the word surrender was never even

mentioned. Then it took some time longer to get the word to all Japanese commands

left to lay down their arms.

If Hirohito had not "surrendered" after Nagasaki got nuked, there may well have been

another Japanese industrial area/city suffering the same fate, perhaps more, perhaps

Operation Downfall would have began....but we will never know that will we.

^^^ Smile, nod & give a wave matey...you'll be ok...so will she.

Does she always run the dog too?

Abstain...with a twist...

I do not think the recent attack at Erawan is a harbinger of a new and more dangerous chapter in Thailand.

Chapter 1 of the book begins back in 2008. A middle chapter begins in March 2010 and now in 2015 this

is just another paragraph in a chapter that began when the NCPO took over. The book will be a long read

if one is into this sort of book...mundane mostly with bits of utter sensless violence to perk up the read.

Fact 1 - anything could have been inside the bag.

Fact 2 - they don't have a clue who did it or they know but the truth will lose them more face than to let the bombers get away.

Fact 3 - Thailand have enough money to increase civil servants pay by 3 times the inflation rate and plan to buy 3 subs for B 30 bn plus but they don't have money to buy equipment needed to fight crime.

Fact 4 - the dear great leader didn't make the time to visit the victims in hospital.

Fact 5 - the pride of the government is getting in the way of catching the bomber(s), why not ask the US to send a team in to help catching these guys.

Fact 6 - although this was a national tradegy, hundreds of people die in the south each year but the BKK people never produce an outcry like this one - are the lives of people in BKK worth more than in the south ?

Just a quick but tad bit lengthy reply to your post plus some other observations....

Fact 1...Yes anything could be in that bag but whatever it was, it was heavy. See attached video.

Fact 2...I agree with this statement. Best said the officials were gobsmacked.

Fact 3...This is true but the submarines are a huge face maker while civil servants can wait for meagre handouts.

Fact 4...True. Why I wonder? Embarassed perhaps or clueless?

Fact 5...Too late to call in outside help from anywhere since the place was sanitised less than 24 hours after detonation.

Plus outsiders may cause a huge loss of that evil "face" thinggy.

Fact 6...There is only one answer to this "Fact" and that answer is Yes. Why? Because what happens down there does

not happen in BKK....errr....well not with the same regularity anyway.

Video of the "Man in the blue shirt....

Notice how he accesses the ped bridge then takes a few more steps & sets the bag down & begins to mess

with what looks like a notepad/large handphone. He does this a while and even dismisses the passing by of

a nice looking chick (03:12 to around 03:19). At around 04:38 he picks up the bag and takes approximately

5 or 6 steps further up the ped bridge and places the plastic bag down between what looks like the hand rail

supports. Then at 04:54 he gently gives the plastic bag a shove with his right foot & the bag falls into water

creating a splash at 04:55. The Man in the blue shirt then walks away back towards the camera and exits

the ped bridge while messing about with his gadget, from the same direction he approached at the

beginning of the video.

Why were the coppers/military tossing bricks into the canal from above the "railing" is a mystery. Why didn't

they just set a plastic bag with a brick in it on the cement between two "hand rail" suports and give it a gentle

shove, with a foot, into the water as Blue Shirt man did? Since this CCTV video apparently got to Kaosod via

the police...seems they (police) didn't too well crime scene re-enactment this time....if the scene really has

anything to do with a crime at all...

.

According to the source, TNT was used for both pipe bombs.

"Explosive powder was stuffed into steel pipes with a huge number of ball bearings," the source added.

News Flash, Somchai:

TNT is not a powder.

And if Thais need a foreigner to teach them how to make a pipe bomb with ball bearings, then they are even dumber than I gave them credit for.

Actually TNT initially comes out as a dry substance when the process of manufacture

is complete. After manufacture it is usually, but not always, mixed with plasticisers.

Then placed into many types of containers from charges (4 to 6 ounces) to artillery

shells & aerial bombs of various weights. However...it's rather uncommon to transport

it in its raw form.

Raw TNT...

Google for it...

^^^ Assurant...That's not a Vietnamese truck it is an American truck in Vietnam.

Don't know about today's models but they've been around for ages & were

taken over by Daimler Benz in the mid-late 80's. Along with Peterbllt & Mack

the Freightliner was a common sight on US highways for ages.

Here's a Wiki link & a song....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freightliner_Trucks

Keep On Truckin...

This one is actually destined for the bin. Last night I saw a lovely evening scene: the sun was low and slightly behind a girl on a bicycle, illuminating her hair almost halo-like....the Retreiver was lit up in the same way. The avenue of trees helped to frame it......So I quickly grabbed the camera and fired off two or three shots. I was gutted when I looked on the laptop...the photo was so grainy you could grate your eyeballs on it. I'd left the ISO waaaay too high from a previous shot.

So.....off to the bin it goes! Not a happy bunny at all.

It is still a good pic Rob....cut yourself that slack...

JsB...Is that a Vuvuzela?!

Good job lads...Good job.

^^^David...You have found out that the police & military are really not that nasty towards the

press when they want to be nice, especially in a time such as now when everything is rather

confusing and gets mis-reported. When I was active in covering the crap in Pattani, Yala,

Narathiwat & Songkla Provs I met a lot of police & military who would eventually learn that

I am ex-miitary...this made my work with them much easier & more a combat comrade kinda

thing. Some have become close friends & fill me in on a weekly basis what the real deal is

down there these days. On that note, the real deal is just as confusing as it always has been.

Being a cop or a soldier is a shit job...but somebody has to do it or the mess we'd all be in

right now would be horrific.

War is a terrible thing no matter what weapon one is using. People seem to forget that the Japanese were fierce fighters who tended not to surrender but instead fight to the death taking as many of their foes as possible with them. America lost well over 100,000 military in the Pacific and about a quarter of a million were injured. While the US (almost single highhandedly) had them on the ropes, there was no offer of surrender. There was not even an offer of surrender after the first bomb was dropped. To those who think Americans were monsters in using the atomic bomb I ask this. How many more American lives should have been sacrificed to end the war? In the end, the emperor was allowed to stay on the throne instead of being hanged as a war criminal so I don't think that argument has much merit.

Well part of your post is correct, but the "almost single handedly" bit is not and is an insult to the thousands of British and British commonwealth troops and others who suffered and died defeating Japan. Maybe you should check out Kohima for a start. Plus check out how many Chinese nationalist troops died whilst the communists under Mao were skulking around avoiding fighting the Japanese. Try to be a little bit more objective, please.

Strictly speaking he is correct if he was writing only about the Pacific area of the war.

The British and Commonwealth troops plus the Army and Navy were attacking through India, and Burma on their way down towards Singapore. The Royal Navy was active around Indonesia. The Chinese were tying down large numbers of Japanese troops as well. The USN didn't want the RN in the Pacific as our task forces were smaller than theirs and would also require large numbers of support vessels though the RN aircraft carriers were much stronger than the USN carriers mainly because of the armoured flight decks where the USN carriers mostly had wooden decks which offered little protection from kamikaze attacks.

A fair bit OT but a good writeup from Wiki regarding carrier flight decks...Wiki is begining

to surprise me...it is actually getting better....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_flight_deck

OK back OT...

@ Jimmy...Much better perspective!

^^^ Outta likes Geriatrickid. Well stated IMO.

My late father was a fighter pilot during WWII out here

in the Pacific Theatre and every now & then he'd tell

me a small bit about his war experiences. The IJA soldier

was a well trained & battle hardened soldier...same applied

to the IJAF pilots. mind you he never really talked much

about his wartime experiences and 40 years after participating

in my own war out here, I understand why he didn't say much.

His reasoning was fairly simple...it is too horrific for you to

comprehend...end of story. And it doesn't need to be a

World War to be horrific...a nasty low intensity conflict will

do.

There was a plan for the invasion of Japan named Operation

Downfall which comprised two main components; Operation

Coronet & Operation Olympic. Had Operation Downfall been

set in motion the war in the Pacific may well have lasted at

least 4 more years (rough estimate) or longer, and the casualty

figures for just the US would be in the range of between 500,000

to a million fatalities...and this is also just a rudimentary estimate.

Why? Because the US military would not only be fighting the

Imperial Japanese Military on their own soil...the US military

would also have to fight every Japanese person who could

heft any type of weapon. And this included every man, woman,

child & possibly dog.

There were plans to use nuclear weapons during the two phases

of Operation Downfall with about 7 devices that would be ready

when needed. However...there were arguments regarding their

usage due to what little was kown about fallout at that time.

Yes...the bombings of Hiroshima & Nagasaki were horrific events

but during war horrific events happen with horrific regularity.

Many lives were saved on both sides;Japanese & American, by

dropping those two nuclear devices compared to how many would

have perished had Operation Downfall commenced.

Enclosed is a PDF file...for those who may be interested...

read it.

We are constantly told that many American lives would be lost attacking Japan, but it was never necessary to invade. With total air supremacy, there was no need to put a single American GI on Japanese soil to gain surrender. However, the American high command have never been slow to sacrifice their troops in poorly executed warfare. Just look at Vietnam where thousands of lives were lost due to incompetent leadership. The Australians and New Zealanders lost very few in comparison because their tactics were far superior, despite pressure from the Americans to implement bad tactics in search of a faster resolution. Luckily for the ANZ troops, their leaders refused to be intimidated.

I did 4 years between Vietnam & Cambodia with the US military..March 1971-April 10, 1975...I know about

bad decisions and I also know there were good decisions made too. All in all I spent 10 years in the

Army-1969-1979 and know of even more good vs bad decisions. My old man retired a Rear Admiral (O-7)

in 1965 after spending 45 years on active duty beginning as an ordinary seaman (E-0). I tended to believe

what the old man told me about the war in the Pacific. He also witnessed the nuclear tests conducted in the

Pacific and when I asked him what a test looked like his reply was simply this..."The most frightening I have

ever seen."...to the Castle Romeo test in 1954 around Bikini Atoll.

This topic is not about bad decisions made during wartime it is a poll of sorts concerning the usage of the

first nuclear devices in wartime...should or should not have been used. if you have read the PDF file I

attached you can come to our own conclusion. There's more factual info on the web concerning how the

so called blockade of Japan was going to go and the state of the Soviet forces available to block off any

Western Japanese military movement & supply routes plus the Soviets were ready to invade Manchuria...

Japans only real remaining source of raw materials. And that of the state of affairs within the Imperial

Japanese military & war council, which was split 50-50 whether to surrender or continue the war. There

was even an attempted coup d'etat to remove the ones who opted for surrender but that failed. The first

two nuclear devices ever used in war had already been employed beforehand. Seven more nuclear

devces were being readied....should the Japanese war council & Emperor not accept the Potsdam

declaration and Operation Downfall had to be implemented. More nuclear devices would be made

available as Operation Downfall needed them and at that time, yes America was the only nation on

this planet who had "The Bomb"....and America would have used them to completely obliterate Japan

had not the surrender taken place at noon, 15 August 1945.

Thank God, or whomever you pray to, that it took ony two nuclear devices to convince the Japanese

leadership that surrender was their best option. However...the word Surrender was never used by

Emperor Hirohito....

A short & partial transcript of his "Surrender" speech....

"Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to

do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should we continue to

fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but

also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.

Such being the case, how are We to save the millions of Our subjects, or to atone Ourselves

before the hallowed spirits of Our Imperial Ancestors? This is the reason why We have ordered

the acceptance of the provisions of the Joint Declaration of the Powers....

The hardships and sufferings to which Our nation is to be subjected hereafter will be certainly

great. We are keenly aware of the inmost feelings of all of you, Our subjects. However, it is

according to the dictates of time and fate that We have resolved to pave the way for a grand

peace for all the generations to come by enduring the unendurable and suffering what is

unsufferable."

Here's a chart depicting what Japan still "controled" as of 01 August 1945...

Here's two before & after pix of Hiroshima & Nagasaki...remember, compared to the nukes

available today the only two ever used in war are small in yield...approx 15Kt & 21kt

respectively...

Hiroshima...

Nagasaki...

Good source of info about the last days of the Japanese Empire on Wiki

which I must say is pretty darn good....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan

^^^ Could have done with less dishes & more dishwasher Jimmy!

The OP sums of the weirdness of this. There really are good reasons to rule out ALL of those theories. But the bomb happened so one of them is probably right!

JT...I agree with you on this. One of them or...as Donald Rumsfeld once said...

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known

unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are

also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

However...I'll take a scene from an American TV game show Let's Make A Deal hosted

by Monty Hall and....back it up with some past events as evidence. It's easy to Google for

the past events too. On with the game show...

Monty! Monty! Monty...I'l take the door named The Military Junta!

Monty Hall to me: That's a fine choice Sunshine...please explain why

for our studio & national audience.

OK Monty I'll do this...one moment please...

Firstly...the detonation site WAS "sanitised" rather quickly after the explosion.

Secondly...In the early reports as reported by international & some local media

the Army seemed to know a lot about the type of device used...ie...what powered

it & what it was packed with...without forensic evidence backing up the claims.

Thirdly...The fact that the junta stands to lose more than they gain due to the

bombs impact on Thai tourism is the oldest excuse in the book & anybdy

with a half a brain knows the excuse is lame as in the long term this holds

no water, the tourista's will return...unless the bombings continue.

Fourthly..."They also find it difficult to comprehend that any government can

commit such cruelty."....Well the Indonesian military under Suharto did this with

extreme regularity by sending "provocateurs" to... say...an area or outlaying

island to stir up hatred (religious/ethnc) and riots would ensue. Cals for help

would be paced to Jakarta and jakarta would send in the military...usually

Kopasus (spec ops) or the strategic brigades and have the mess sorted in a

matter of days with many casualties on the side of the "insurgents" who at

one time...were ordinary folks who got along very well together for centuries

before Jakarta sent in thise pesky crap stirrers.

Google for "Maluku sectarian conflict" & "The Tragedy of Ambon: what did

really happen?" for more info on just one of Indonesia's use of nearly the

same tactic.

Closer to LOS Hun Sen has used the violence tactic to ensure his tenure

as PM in Cambodia will last until he dies of natural causes.

The Generals in Burma do the same thing now as they have in the past.

The US did it in Central & South America during the 60's to early 80's

time frame. remember the Iran-Contra thing?

The Russians did it in Chechnya & are doing it today in Ukraine....

so...

Who is the 'They" who find it difficult to comprehend that any government

could do this sort of attack on innocent people? Who is in charge of this

contry is who "they" are.

Lastly...'Backpack Man" if not long out of LOS by now is most likely to

be in tiny pieces scattered throughout the forests somewhere way out

past metro BKK. And so are the other two lads who were said to be his

lookouts. Either this or they were just a few plods who fit the bill.

Mr CGI photo with the official blue chop on it is just that...Mr CGI Photo.

So Monty...I will take the Junta door!

^^^ Outta likes Geriatrickid. Well stated IMO.

My late father was a fighter pilot during WWII out here

in the Pacific Theatre and every now & then he'd tell

me a small bit about his war experiences. The IJA soldier

was a well trained & battle hardened soldier...same applied

to the IJAF pilots. mind you he never really talked much

about his wartime experiences and 40 years after participating

in my own war out here, I understand why he didn't say much.

His reasoning was fairly simple...it is too horrific for you to

comprehend...end of story. And it doesn't need to be a

World War to be horrific...a nasty low intensity conflict will

do.

There was a plan for the invasion of Japan named Operation

Downfall which comprised two main components; Operation

Coronet & Operation Olympic. Had Operation Downfall been

set in motion the war in the Pacific may well have lasted at

least 4 more years (rough estimate) or longer, and the casualty

figures for just the US would be in the range of between 500,000

to a million fatalities...and this is also just a rudimentary estimate.

Why? Because the US military would not only be fighting the

Imperial Japanese Military on their own soil...the US military

would also have to fight every Japanese person who could

heft any type of weapon. And this included every man, woman,

child & possibly dog.

There were plans to use nuclear weapons during the two phases

of Operation Downfall with about 7 devices that would be ready

when needed. However...there were arguments regarding their

usage due to what little was kown about fallout at that time.

Yes...the bombings of Hiroshima & Nagasaki were horrific events

but during war horrific events happen with horrific regularity.

Many lives were saved on both sides;Japanese & American, by

dropping those two nuclear devices compared to how many would

have perished had Operation Downfall commenced.

Enclosed is a PDF file...for those who may be interested...

read it.

Operation_Downfall.pdf

^^^ Another source of support for the "insurgency" in the troubled Southern Provinces

is Aceh. Just FYI that snippet of intel.

They took 3 days to condemn the attack.

Are we in an united world against terrorism ?

It's not a right and wrong issue but LoS took 10 days to say they tracked MH370 east to west accross northeren Malaysia but didn't say anything because nobody asked them.

On top of that the Mals are having a bit of bother with their PM

and a supposed 2.6 billion Ringgit "gift" he has received from

a "friend" in the Middle East deposited into the PMs own bank

account. Which, BTW, strangely amounts to the so-called

missing 700 Million USD from a 1MDB account...plus the

PM's sacking of the DPM & AG after those two asked the PM

that if he had nothing to hide then please explain to us this money

you have received. In the case of MH370 the Mal government

didn't have a clue what to say to anybody...period. And the

Mals have always been a slightly secretive & paranoid lot in

matters such as MH370 & 1MDB...and many others.

^^^ Outta likes Mr H.

Neat posts RW. Depending on what colour spectrum; R, G or B a colourblind person suffers,

this could be as awesome as hearing sound for the first time for a once deaf person.

Leaps & bounds being made these days in both vision & audio & I reckon it's great

stuff.

The RTA should be looked at also.

Send in some "provocateurs" or a single sod,

plant a bomb or two, one bomb detonates with

horiffic results, Aemy enters & saves the day.

Happened in Insonesia at the turn of the century.

Hapened in the 60's all over Latin America.

Happens all over the world really.

Army's not really that popular despite their

propaganda here....why not rush in & try to

save the day & their face.

Think about it.

^^^ Looks lke he Michelin Man has had a beer or two Ron....!