blorg

5 minutes ago, farangbuffalo said:

To be fair, the agents were the ones sharing info about the impending changes before Elite themselves. So there would have been some value having been on their mailing list 

Also, agents are still answering the phone, which Elite reportedly isn't at the moment ????

18 hours ago, K2938 said:

Will the new prices be announced before Sept 15, i.e. while one can still apply for the existing packages?

Unlikely, they are launching the new packages October 1 and have informed existing members that if they don't upgrade by August 15, it will be January 2024 before they can upgrade to the new packages. So there does seem to be a deliberate effort to get in the upgrades/applications before they formally announce the new prices.

The prices floated (unofficial) are 900k for the cheapest 5 year to 5m for the most expensive 20 year. This is presumably with perks, there may be a cheaper 20 year (like now, there's a 2m+VAT 20 year with a 20k annual fee, and a 1m no perk 20 year). It looks pretty likely that they are going up substantially.

Thai network providers sell artificially speed capped packages, 4, 6, 10, 15, 30Mbps etc. packages. In these cases the speed cap is not the actual max possible speed of the connection but it's capped on their network side.

BUT they specifically lift this for speedtest.net, because speedtest.net isn't just an end-user speed test but also keeps a leaderboard of ISP speeds. So if they capped speedtest.net their subscribers on speed capped packages would affect their overall ranking as an ISP.

AIS has historically done best on this and they actively promote themselves with this, that they have the fastest network.

https://www.speedtest.net/performance/thailand

https://investor.ais.co.th/news.html/id/741552

https://investor.ais.co.th/news.html/id/568369/group/newsroom_press

https://www.thairath.co.th/news/tech/1498250

https://www.chiangmainews.co.th/page/archives/1149202

https://business.ais.co.th/news-activities/digital_life_service_provider.html

If AIS or any other operator applied the cap to speedtest.net all their subscribers on these speed capped packages would drop them down the ranking.

So speedtest.net will give you the actual max line speed and will be accurate IF you have a "max speed" or uncapped package. It won't be accurate if you have a specific speed capped package, as to the best of my knowledge none of the major Thai network providers limit speed on speedtest.net as it would only hurt their ranking. AIS and True don't for sure, as I have tested that with their specific speed packages and speedtest.net always shows a much faster speed.

I initially thought it meant the speed capped packages weren't actually capped, but they are, if you try to download anything from anywhere else other than speedtest.net you'll get your capped speed. The positive, the max speed these days usually is well above the capped speed so you will get exactly the capped speed very reliably.

FAST.com (Netflix) is another very quick option that will show you your actual speed. They have Thai servers too. If you have a speed capped package but the theoretical max speed at your location is higher than this (which it usually is) you'll get pretty much bang on 4, 6, 10, 15Mbps shown on FAST.com.

45 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

The THAI Elite card is not expensive if you are buying peace of mind and protecting yourself from the usual immigration BS

That's the point, isn't it. It's marketed as a very expensive visa for exactly that, "peace of mind" and avoiding all "the usual immigration BS".

Didn't work out too well for OP's friend though did it.

17 minutes ago, rott said:

I wonder if he had been doing his 90 day reports. 

He probably hadn't. But that doesn't really matter, the max penalty for that is only a small fine. Lack of 90 reports could conceivably have been why the fine quoted was 25k rather than 20k.

13 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

BTW how do you work out that there has been MANY folk with PE that have failed to obtain an extension if staying longer than 12 months.

Because Elite themselves said as much: "we have discovered that, since November 1 until the present, there have been reports of late submission by our Thailand Elite members for our visa extension service, which has led to many cases of overstays by our members."

@humbug The whole thing is all, ultimately, the Thai government. I know well that everything is chopped up into little bureaucratic fiefdoms that don't talk to each other but in another possible world, yes, you could imagine this could be more integrated.

As it is they do talk to each other and exchange data on members, Elite are making a point now of how they notify Thai immigration of membership expiry so that old members can't do that "extra year" trick where they get stamped in for another year at the end of their visa. And there are reports now of Elite members in their final year no longer getting stamped in for the full year, but only up to the end of their membership.

This wouldn't in require any sort of live connection. Elite members are stamped in for a full year. So there is at least a year after entry before they are in any danger of overstay. As such, this could be handled with Elite getting only very occasional feeds, even every six months would be sufficient. If they got data every six months, there is no possibility of any member who entered after that, in the next six months, going on overstay.

Even disregarding the possibility of such a feed, for many members Elite does get to see their passport every 90 days if they use the 90 day reporting service. Or, if you got an extension, Elite know about that- they have to provide a letter. So they know when that happened, and they could put a reminder to check in with you in 12 months.

You could say this is babying, alternately, you could maybe look at it like a sort I don't know- concierge service. Which is meant to be what you are paying them so much money for, that they do smooth over and manage this stuff for you.

The point is, the visa is the single most important part of the Elite programme, it's what the vast majority of people get it for. And this isn't an isolated thing, many Elite members have been caught out by this because they didn't get the particular bureaucratic minutiae of their status. I do think that is something Elite could put more effort into managing for members proactively, yes.  It's the sort of calendar/reminder system that could be done up in an afternoon, and then just send a personalised email when the date is coming up, with the letter and do they require an appointment. Does it matter if they email someone who actually left in the meantime? No, it doesn't matter in the slightest. They send enough emails as it is about stuff no-one cares about, this would actually be useful. Critically so for the "many members" who have been caught out by this and ended up on overstay.

@Captain Monday sure, but that's the whole point, that the real value of Elite is the visa, for people who don't qualify for something else. I was replying to your comment that the best benefit of Elite for you was not the visa, but the fast track. But you can buy the fast track (whatever your age) for a much lower fee.

The real thing they are selling, is the visa.

On 12/8/2021 at 1:05 PM, possum1931 said:

There are so many people who get the Elite Visa, when all they need to do is pay an agent to avoid all the hassle, but many of them think wrongly that using an agent to avoid dealing with banks etc, and don't even need to bother with immigration at all, think that doing things in that way is illegal.

If you are using an agent to sidestep immigration requirements, that IS illegal. It may or may not catch up with you. But some people who did go for Elite over those sort of options did it precisely because Elite is a 100% legit visa and they don't want to get into this sort of thing.

This is if you are using an agent to actually avoid the requirements. If you actually qualify for the visa you are on and are just using an agent to queue for you, fill out forms, save time and make your life easier, sure, there nothing illegal with that. 

On 12/8/2021 at 11:39 AM, Captain Monday said:

The best benefit of the Thailand Elite program for me was not the PE visa

It was using the VIP security entrance at BKK airport without purchasing a business class ticket.

You buy that VIP airport service on a per-use basis for ~1,200B per transit. A lot cheaper than an Elite visa. 

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Take a ME marriage visa 

Valid for one year. Allows stays of up to 90 days. Exit and reenter. Wash and repeat. Very popular with some married guys living full time in Thailand.

Point is same as all visas it has conditions. 

In the case of PE it's allows stays of up to a year at which time you must obtain extension or exit and reenter. The requirements are very clear.

 

Sure, I understand the difference. Many do not, and Elite is marketed as the "no hassle pay money so you don't have to deal with all this <deleted>" visa. It's obviously not "very clear" as many people have been caught out by this.

On 12/8/2021 at 10:43 AM, Tropposurfer said:

I'm curious where his Elite Visa liaison staffer was in not communicating his due date was approaching? I get a nice email about these things, and all sorts of spontaneous Elite support every year.

You get a personal email about your annual extension when it's coming up to a year? I'm surprised by that, as most members to my knowledge do not. They did send a generic email bulk email warning of this specific issue back in January, three months after the end of the Covid amnesty, which was reactive, not proactive, they said in the email there were already "many cases of overstays by our members", the warning was too late for many.

Quote

Member Stay Extension Warning One-year Thailand Entry Ban for Over 90 Days Late Stay Extension 

Under the Thai government's visa waiver program which allowed foreigners to stay in the Kingdom of Thailand—conditional on their previous stay privilege or permission—for the period from March 28 until October 31, 2020 without the need to apply for a visa extension at the Immigration Office, we have discovered that, since November 1 until the present, there have been reports of late submission by our Thailand Elite members for our visa extension service, which has led to many cases of overstays by our members. 

On 12/8/2021 at 10:41 AM, Hummin said:

I have to extend my retirement every year, and report every 90 days, not rocket science!

 

What I'm more concerned about, is the elite visa agency didn't remind him at all, as they normally take care of 90 day report for their clients!? 

But you don't have a 5 year retirement visa, your retirement visa would have been initially 90 days or 1 year, and you have been on an extension since that ran out. Your visa would have run out, and you would have had to get an extension at that point.

I understand the difference between the visa and the stamp, but it's easy to see why someone would confuse, that if they have a 5 year visa, why do they need to extend after a year? It's 5 years, right?

Elite will do your 90 day reports if you specifically go in to them and ask them to do it. They don't proactively notify you about it, and it's easier to do it online that trek in to their office twice with your passport. But I suspect this guy probably wasn't aware or doing his 90 day either. That doesn't really matter, it's a 2,000B fine which doesn't even come up unless you need to do an extension. Even the 20,000 overstay fine is a relatively minor issue, it's the ban that I expect is the bigger problem.  

On 12/8/2021 at 7:09 AM, HampiK said:

Don't forget Elite is a private company, who take care that you become a visa which is valid for 5/10/20 years which allows you to stay in the country up to 1 year without problems. But after 1 year you have to leave or renew your permision to stay inside!

Elite (Thailand Privilege Card Co., Ltd.) is 100% owned by the government of Thailand.

It's not marketed as just a service to get a visa, it's marketed as an ongoing membership with various "privileges" and services for the duration of your membership. This is not the first time this has happened, it has happened to several members at this point and it is exacerbated with people stuck here with the Covid situation who would normally just have travelled out at some point and so never needed an extension before.

It's expensive enough. It would be an actually useful service for their members if they did actually keep track of this and proactively contacted the member to arrange extensions when necessary. Their whole marketing message is that Elite is an easy hassle-free means to stay in Thailand, some people go for it precisely because they they have the money and don't want to deal with the bureaucracy and keep on top of all Thai immigration's minutiae.

This is a general issue with Elite, they have a very top-down and very strictly delineated set of "things they do" and the things they do, they do generally handle well. But step slightly outside the boundaries of the limited set of things they handle, and they can't do anything. There's very little flexibility.

You can ask them to order it, theoretically if any branch genuinely doesn't have MasterCard in stock they can order it from Bangkok. Takes 7 days, I think you can also get your name on it when you do it this way.

I can understand why you just gave up though.

11 minutes ago, Acharn said:

I recently got an email from Bangkok Bank informing me that I will be charged ฿300 for my "debit card." I thought it was just an ATM card, and never tried to use it to make a payment online. The reason you can't use it with foreign vendors is because their payment systems don't recognize the card. It's not a credit card.

It's not that, it worked fine for foreign vendors until very recently. Bangkok Bank have blocked it only in the last few weeks. It's due to this massive data breach of Thai credit/debit card numbers, hackers seem to have got their hands on basically every card number in the country (over 30 million total).

1 minute ago, MJCM said:

Yes my account is in Europe but I live in Thailand and I got a card

That's how it works, it depends on what address you gave them when you signed up. You can sign up from Thailand and get the card, if you can give them a European address.

One workaround that might be relatively quick for people living in Thailand who can't do the Wise virtual card, Shopee Pay wallet actually has a built in virtual MasterCard. You can sign up for this through the app taking a photo of your passport on your phone camera, and it get activated pretty quick (same day). You can then fund it through your mobile banking, and that's quite easy and smooth to transfer money into it. It's a Thai card issued by TTB and you can use this to pay for stuff including international transactions, I used it to pay for Spotify after Bangkok Bank cut it off, I have also used it for a few other international things. It also works on Grab, FoodPanda, I even use it on Lazada and it works fine there too.

Foreigners can get this and it's pretty easy. What foreigners can't do, is you can't link your bank account to it to have it debit that automatically. Or at least you can't if you are with Bankgok Bank- the limitation here seems to be on the BBK side, it's in the form BBK have to do the link, which requires a Thai ID number. But you can fund it really pretty smoothly through the mobile banking, you just click top-up and it links through to the Bangkok Bank mobile app to complete it, and you don't have to retype in anything, it's just a few clicks.

46 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, that is/was not the case for all merchants.  There may have been a temporary suspension but that only applied to the accounts of those affected by the fraud.   

Bangkok Bank blocked my brand new card that I got today, which presumably couldn't have been involved in the fraud because I literally got it only an hour ago. They said they have done a general lockdown on all services that don't support their SMS OTP thing. My understanding, this is a Thai service. They would only unblock for me, specific websites that I gave them, they said they could not unblock general international use at this time.

My understanding, cards should continue to work for Thai stuff that implements their SMS OTP thing. So stuff like Shopee, Lazada, should be fine. But most international stuff is blocked. Worth noting that this affects international companies like Spotify that actually sell their subscriptions in THB in Thailand, they are being blocked as it's billed from abroad.

As to "only the accounts of those affected by the fraud", that is reported at over 30 million people? Likely more people have been involved in this fraud than haven't been, this affected probably the majority of cards issued in Thailand. This is just on the number affected, not saying every bank is reacting to it in this way, but this fraud hit a lot of cards, they got it appears almost everything.

EDIT: and confirmed, it works with Shopee. But now you need to go through the SMS OTP rigmarole even for 1THB transaction, it forced me to do that even for the 1THB verification. Used be that you only needed to do the SMS thing for larger transactions.

Thanks for that @Pravda. I'll try to sign up for AirPay and see if I can use these in the future.

4 minutes ago, Pravda said:

1 baht vouchers worth 30 baht 

How does that one work? I see as well that they sell a 9B voucher pack that seems to include vouchers (including free shipping vouchers) that would more than pay for themselves on the first voucher. Maybe you need AirPay though. They do make it remarkably complicated.