pentagara

23 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

One of the reasons it didn't happen before was because the airlines said no.

If collection by airlines, the only way is to add it to airport taxes and security fees that are part of the ticket. In this case, there is no differentiation if you're a tourist, permanent resident, work permit holder or a Thai citizen. Everyone with a  airplane ticket will have to pay it. It would be a tax on the ticket with no differentiation. Technically it would be like the carbon tax charged by some countries, airport fees and security fees charged at all airports and such. Unless Thailand thinks it can change global airfare ticketing procesures and IT systems. It cannot be linked to nationality and visa status.

Furthermore, it would not cover land crossings.

The idea of giving everyone entering Thailand health insurance by paying 300 THB at entry is also ridiculously dangerous, since then people would have the right to go to a Thai hospital for free, covered by Thailand within the insurance limits. There's no way you could cover the costs for that with 300 THB. You'd need health checks, exclusions such as no payment in case of preexisting conditions and more. In other words: Thailand would make a substantial loss. That's why no country does it.

39 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Common Reporting Standard.

 

The Common Reporting Standard (CRS), developed in response to the G20 request and approved by the OECD Council on 15 July 2014, calls on jurisdictions to obtain information from their financial institutions and automatically exchange that information with other jurisdictions on an annual basis.

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Common+Reporting+standard

The US doesn't participate in CRS, they have enforced FATCA reporting globally instead.

48 minutes ago, SportRider said:

Agreed.  Thailand is not as multicultural or as welcoming in the way that places like Singapore are, for example, where I had PR.

 

Singapore today is in every way as multi-cultural as Thailand from a white person's perspective, just with more rules.

As a foreigner, you are categorized in three buckets (citizen, permanent resident and other - the latter can be tourist or tax paying employee with visa) plus your race. The three buckets determine, which price you pay in anything that is public service or health care (3-tierd pricing in SG vs. 2-tierd pricing in Thailand).

To become a permanent resident (or citizen) in Singapore you have to strengthen the ethnic status quo and cohesion of society. On your first visa application you state your race and you're categorized accordingly. Singapore is majority ethnic Han-Chinese, followed by Malay and Indian. Whites are a single digit percentage. Accordingly, if you want to become permanent resident nowadays as an employee on Employment Pass coming from Mainland China working eg. in one of the 'Singaporean', mainland Chinese founded tech companies (or also any other respected company), you'll easily get it after completing your first round of full year taxes about 1.5 years in.

These days, as a white person, you won't get it even after living and working in Singapore for 10 years on an Employment Pass. Forget about ever being able to retire in Singapore, even if you buy property at the inflated 60% stamp duty you have to pay as someone who just works there, but is not considered a permanent resident. After ending your job, you are a tourist and are required to leave.

You will never become a permanent resident or citizen in today's Singapore, unless you're a billionaire trying to evade US taxes. Then they do grant you citizenship, since that is the one and only exception (i.e. bringing lots of money to Singapore, in the 100m USD range and up).

Mind you, things in Singapore have changed massively in this regard since the immigration wave of about 2009. It's one of the most xenophobic countries I've ever been to so far (as a white person, admittedly). It's also a very friendly country, as long as you know your place. You'll just never be part of it. Singapore in this sense is very, very Southeast Asian.

36 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I was totally unaware the US was in Asia. I must brush up on my geography. 

Yeah, that surprised me as well, but the index seems to be focused on power and not geography.

The US is not a South American country either, but they have overthrown governments there and installed the dictators that were most favorable to their economic interests. So I guess few would debate that the US is among the most important South American powers.

Considering the extensive permanent military presence of the US in Asia, the index doesn't seem to be fully off, I suppose.

2 hours ago, DrPhibes said:

Wait, wait, wait,

 

Can the Governor override the government?  The government edict opening on Sept 1st does not allow schools to open up in deep red zones, not on the list of what can open.  What's going on here?

 

My son is in his 1st year of college at KMUTT and has been online at home here in Chiang Mai since no idiot would open a deep red zone to schooling without vaccinations and some advance notice.  Now we have to get him to BKK ASAP?  Gotta call the school.

KMUTT is considered a university and not a school with school children. The rules on online classes are up to the university and most likely will be unchanged.

The governor did not overrule the national government. Based on the regulation published in the royal gazette (which is what makes something a law - and that's what counts, not any news reports or interviews), the national government left the rules for restaurants and schools up to the governors to decide.

7 hours ago, misterphil said:

I am waiting to return to Thailand when its no quarantine for fully vaxed people. Just like most of the worlds policy. 

There's barely any country that offers no quarantine for fully vaxed. Israel reintoduced quarantine, the US doesn't allow any non-resident entries from many countries including all of Europe, vaccinated or not. European countries let in some non-residents that are vaccinated, but whether it's quarantine free depends on the country you go to and where you're from. Bad luck if you're in Thailand and want to go to the UK for example. In Asia, good luck entering anywhere, be it with or without quarantine or vaccination.

3 hours ago, cclub75 said:

 

At least, we have a "timeline"... 2 weeks per 2 weeks. ???? It helps.

 

The main problem is : even with 70 or 80 % of the population fully vaccinated... the virus could still be there.

 

Look at Israel (or Malta, or UAE etc.)

 

Massive (and early) vaccination program (started december 19) with Pfizer.

 

 

 

The idea that "vaccine = end of the problem = going back to normal" is deeply flawed.

 

Confronted to thoses facts (the vaccine do not prevent transmission and contamination, the herd immunity with a virus that mutates/recombines a lot and that has animal reservoirs is a fiction) countries start to think "differently" like Iceland or the UK... The virus will always be there, it's okay.

 

But I'm very concerned about Thailand... i'm not sure they can think out of the box... The "zero Covid" ideology is very strong in Asia and South-East Asia.

 

Add to this... the tense political situation (factorized by the economic and social situation)...

 

That's not a good cocktail recipe...

There's no country that I am aware of that lifted restrictions successfully (i.e. no major increase in hospitalizations or deaths) without having the vast majority of the population fully vaccinated (>>70% of adults, two jabs). This includes Iceland, UK and Israel. Thailand either has to do a major lockdown with systematic contact tracing and testing, or muddle through until >50% of the full population are double vaccinated +2 weeks. That's the threshold that's been observed with other countries. Below 50% double vaccinated, there was no major impact.

2 hours ago, Scheduler said:

I believe the current Delta surge in America is an example of how quickly unvaccinated people are contracting the Delta variant.  I believe, based on the predominant types of vaccines being applied, we are in for a very rough and dangerous ride.

 

unvaccinated and vaccinated, since vaccinated people that are infected with delta will spread it as well, they just won't feel they are sick themselves

12 hours ago, XJPSX said:

We are currently living the largest ever clinical trial of drugs that have not had long term effects determined. In this case humans are the lab rats.

So what do you call a 'natural' infection with the virus and studying its impact on a subject? Is that a non-lab rat experiment? In that case I'd rather be the lab rat, where I get a muzzled virus or a replica to train on first. It's good to have volunteers for natural infections though, from a scientific perspective.

Yes, the used test kits are highly infectious, especially if the test result is "negative". Reason: They are "covid" tests. So it's great to know that the guidelines will have a similar impact as the guidelines for the disposal of face masks.

1 hour ago, roobaa01 said:

@ubonjoe i was also passed the 14 days time after the second vaccination jab plus a pcr test 72 hours prior to arrival with an immunity rate 95 % . Whereas thais mostly jabbed with sinovac rating 51 %.

 

CHEER

ROOBAA01

 

To change Thai immigration rules, you would need to convince the politicians and government officials responsible for them. Members of this forum cannot change Thai regulation.

Irrespective, just with regards to the stated numbers: Efficacy of Pfizer against delta is somewhere around 60-70% based on Israel data. So there's a 30-40% chance you're a spreader and infect unvaccinated people if you've been exposed to delta, with the likelihood increasing with your age. So you're a problem as long as Thai are not vaccinated themselves.

The main benefit of Thailand is actually that they let you in at all as a non-resident. The US and most other countries don't, whatever one's vaccine documents say. In the US it's even difficult to reenter if you are a foreigner and have a US work permit. Vaccine status is completely irrelevant for them.

13 minutes ago, Robs5ct said:

Maybe she just thinks she's covered ?

I guess she will not get any money from Emirates and I think there's no insurance covering a quarantine for free or small money.

 

 

Some US insurers seem to cover unexpected quarantine (Crum & Forster Safe Travels International Coat Saver) also for Non-Residents. Getting insurance from a third country might be have unexpected complications though. The Thai embassy might not to accept it.

The policy wording does not require a positive Covid test for quarantine coverage though:

https://www.insubuy.com/covid19-travel-insurance-with-quarantine-coverage/

"“Quarantine” means Your strict isolation imposed by a Government authority or Physician to prevent the  
spread of disease. "

Plus the price is a fraction of the Thai insurances.

Anyone else know an insurance that would make sense for the sandbox?

5 minutes ago, Robs5ct said:

As far as I understand Emirates "Multi-risk insurance" they just pay - like all other insurances - only if you are detected positive. If you go to quarantine without being tested positive you pay by yourself.

 

Based on the (full) article on Phuket News they do:

"I was lucky to be flying with Emirates which includes such an insurance, but not everyone is coming with this airline."

Unfortunately I can't use Emirates, they don't fly to Phuket from my location.

Axa confirmed to me by email, that their rather expensive AXA Sawasdee insurance does not cover involuntary quarantine for the Phuket sandbox. This is in contrast to the free insurance provided by Emirates to passengers for example.

So if Thai authorities put you in ALQ since you were sitting too close to a positive case on the plane in their opinion, AXA pays nothing. All costs are to be paid by yourself.

You might as well get a cheap insurance instead. Most (much, much cheaper) insurers from one's home country wouldn't cover this unexpected Thai quarantine either, since there is no medical justification. I naively thought, reputable insurance companies in Thailand for tourists cover this very Thai risk. AXA Thailand doesn't.

The cheaper ones from the Thai insurance aassociation probably don't cover this either, but at least they're only about half the cost of the AXA Covid insurance:

https://covid19.tgia.org/

So the AXA insurance is way more expensive, but just as useless for the sandbox.

Does anyone know if there are insurers other than Emirates that cover Thai quarantine risk for the sandbox?

Note: See also

Just now, smedly said:

no it doesn't 

 

sorry but your whole post is based on ..............................mostly "your opinion" without any hard facts or studies for most of it

 

It really is just an opinion piece which of course you are fully entitled to have - but lets be clear about what it is.

fully agreed, there's a lack of data.

1 hour ago, wensiensheng said:

I think the point that has drifted out of focus on a lot of posts is that Thailand is not talking about using one shot of  AZ and one shot of an mRNA vaccine. That combo HAS been used in some countries and as, as someone posted, it’s what Angela merkel did.

 

what Thailand is doing, to combat the delta strain,  is using one dose of sinovac and one dose of AZ. The issue here being that 2 doses of sinovac is not perceived as enough protection, so it’s being cut to just the one, and AZ added.

 

but AZ is perceived as only marginally better than sinovac against delta, or at least it’s own effectiveness is drastically cut.

 

in layman’s terms it’s weakest vaccine plus next less weakest vaccine.

 

whereas, AZ plus an mRNA would in layman’s terms be described as second least effective plus one of the “best”.

 

so if sinovac is a 1, and AZ a 2, and an mRNA a 3, what Thailand is doing adds up to 3. The other combo being used in other countries adds up to 5.

 

I deliberately haven’t gone into detail about actual percentage protection provided etc etc, I’m just trying to point out why people may perceive what Thailand is doing as being less than ideal. Basically it’s the inclusion of sinovac as one of the constituents in the combo.

Interesting calculation. It's unfortunately not that easy, though.

Example: Two doses of Astra taken two weeks apart will have crappy protection. Two doses of Astra taken 12 weeks apart will have much better protection. Reason: vector. So 2+2 does not make 4 in this case, even if it's two AZ in both cases. For this there's data and the reason is known as well.

Likely consequence:

1 dose of Sinovac plus one dose of AZ after four weeks should have better protection than 2 doses of AZ within 4 weeks. That's likely, but to be verified.

Similarly: Where would you put the one dose J&J in your calculation? Based on a recent study (albeit with very low numbers) the efficacy of J&J against delta increases (!) over time and from the start is better than AZ's two dose efficacy against delta. Potential reason (not really fully confirmed yet): AZ uses the same vector twice.

As for 2 mRNA within four weeks: It's unclear how that compares to one Sinovac plus one AZ within four weeks. Usually heterological combinations train the immune system better, but there's no data. Maybe/Probably better, maybe same, maybe worse. 

In any case, both the combination of 2 mRNA or even one mRNA plus one other vaccine is unavailable to people in Thailand right now. So why bother about theoretical options. Yes, if there would be a glut of mRNA in Thailand right now (like there is in the US), mRNA would ve a good choice.

Right now, where Thailand has some Sinovac and a bit more Astra, a mix of the two makes sense.

2 minutes ago, Addonvalue said:

Just wondering -- are folks missing all the news about several European countries dumping AstraZ and the European Medical Authority's (EMA) report finding links between the blood-clotting side-effects and deaths from Astra?  Now the actual time needed for clinical trials for these vaccines has been ignored due to 'emergency' use .   " In the trial records, it is explicitly stated that estimated study completion dates for the Pfizer, Mordena and AstraZeneca safety-related study are May 2, 2023, October 27, 2022, and February 14, 2023, respectively. " (can share details if required from a report I have read) All this to say -- now we want to COMBINE TWO experimental vaccines -- when NO clinical HUMAN trials have been done to see the effects? Not sure who wants to be the "test-tube" and guinea pigs for these upcoming injections? 

 

You rather want to be a guinea pig for the effects of Covid (be it long or short term)? Well, it's good to have people that make a sacrifice, I guess...

14 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

So basically wasting all of these AZ vaccines on boosters because the sinovac govt bought turned out to be useless.

Nah, not really.

First, there was no AZ when they used the majority of Sinovac in Thailand so far. The majority of people that are vaccinated right now would be completely unprotected if they had waited for AZ. Any vaccine is better than no vaccine, especially for front line workers. Even if it helps to protect you only for a few months as stated in the research, e.g. while there's a peak outbreak - like right now.

Second, without Sinovac you definitely need two AZ doses. Efficacy of AZ especially against delta with only one dose is not too good. If you already had two Sinovac, one AZ shot should be perfectly enough based on current knowledge. There's even a high likelihood that this vaccine mix protects better than reusing the same vaccine (i.e. two AZ doses). But anyway, since you only need to use one AZ shot right now with people that already had Sinovac,  you can use the other AZ dose right now to help protect someone else. At the moment there's a scarcity of vaccines in Thailand not a glut that allows everyone to pick and choose. Again, any vaccine is better than none.

Third, with AZ alone you have to wait forever until you're fully protected (16+2 weeks in Thailand). You definitely need two doses of AZ for delta to be meaningfully protected, but you can't take them quickly one after another due to the technology used (adenovirus/vector). If you take them quickly one after another, efficacy of AZ against covid goes down substantially. If you mix Sinovac and AZ, you don't have to wait that long, since only one of the two shots will have the vector virus. As a result, four weeks wait between the doses should be perfectly enough.

10 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Take the plane, can spread faster that way

Well, Airasia already canceled domestic flights for July. Maybe the other airlines still fly though.

9 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

Thanks but I would not fly from the west coast of the USA more than half way around the world in the other direction, and I would not go through any Middle Eastern countries. 

 

  So are we free to choose any flights that are commercially available or must we use some flights that are specified by Thailand?

You can fly with all airlines that currently fly to Phuket on an international routing via countries that allow transfer for your nationality, recent travel history and vaccine/testing status. You currently cannot fly to the sandbox with a ticket that has a domestic leg within Thailand for your outbound flight from the US.

6 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

"Just talk to any sourcing department in a company."

 

You mean the Thai government? Right.

 

That's who's buying Moderna, Pfizer,...

What Im meant is: Sourcing departments of most private companies are really slow with first time contracts, the bigger the company, the slower. So a government being faster than private companies would be a surprise.

So yeah, that it was quick with Sinopharm is noteworthy. Probably the government in question suddenly felt substantial pressure to act. I guess what happened after Sonkran wasn't really expected....

With Pfizer they won't get a quick delivery now even if they wanted it though. Thailand is pretty much at the end of the waiting line there. So any "talks" about a Pfizer delivery in Q4/2021 effectively will mean signed contracts for deliveries sometime in 2022.  However, since the public wants to get Pfizer right now and not in 2022, they just say: "Yeah, we're almost there."

On 6/23/2021 at 3:12 PM, PETERTHEEATER said:

Freely? Just turn up with no restrictions imposed? 

should be rephrased: "... vaccinated tourists will be allowed to enter Phuket expensively with numerous local Covid tests for THB 2800 to 3500 each and closely tracked &  traced by the police officers of the Phuket Sandbox operation center for their own protection. Based on being vaccinated abroad, they will have numerous chances to win the virus from the not fully vaccinated local population and then test positive without symptoms in one of multiple draws. Your chances for this very positive outcome for us and the associated free* 14 day hospital stay for you will vary by your chosen vaccine." Disclaimer: *free depends on whether your insurance provider will cover the potentially inflated cost for the hospital stay.