CalgaryII

HUB of mentally unstable farangs that were failures in their homelands?

HUB of happiness for foreigners that have their sh*t together?

Yes i know i used farang/foreigner. Subtle hint.

Back to the issue at hand, I was talking to some people about these poor, instant-noodle eating and insurance-flogging Proffs. at Rajabhat, and was almost laughed out of the room. I am told there is so much money sloshing around in that Rajabhat University system that to claim poverty is nothing but political agenda. When they can come up with credible comparative salary data showing they are disadvantaged relative to their peers, will any attention be paid to this so-called 'network'.

Everytime I see the word "network' in airing group grievances of any kind, I see the organizational arm of the PAD. So all-of-a-sudden, these questionable problems are the making of this new Govt. and its' 'blind Education Ministry"?........ Having taught at a Rajabhat University in the past, I did not see or hear about any of these compensation problems, in fact quite the opposite......... So the intent of this so-called 'network' needs to be carefully scrutinized as to its' motivations......... I'm sure normal channels of pay and benefits administration are available to address these issues, which use comparative analysis during their compensation reviews. Are these people disadvantaged compared to their peers elsewhere? Such research is readily available rendering protestations to the contrary subject to easy diagnosis .......... Motivation?

The offer is inherently unfair even at 2-for-1 because only the one needs a whitewash.

Good to see you acknowledging Suthep's shortcomings.

Suthep is quite possibly guilty of a number of misdeeds, but innocent until proven so by a court. In regards to the red insurgency, that will be impossible to do IMHO.

It was certainly strange that the video of him and Newin organising Blue Shirt thugs in Pattaya disappeared off the internet a while ago, but I suspect he still might be one of the sacrificial lambs of the current dodgy deals.

A tad off topic but since the above poster brought it up, I saw photos yesterday, of Mr. Abhisit publically congratulating Newin on his four-year leadership of BJT. I have seen indications of the rats deserting the BJT ship, and both PTP and the Democrats are extending their political hospitality.

Wow, they are fixated aren't they. How can reconciliation stuff advance in the face of such fixation. Just goes to show the cynical approach to this idea of reconciling by some, and the farce that it is.......... They are up-and-down like a yo-yo. One minute trying to use reconciliation discussions to advance their anti-Thaksin agenda, the next trying to sound high-principled about the thing, and next using it to obfuscate their culpabilities through deferment and delay......... This erratic and capricious approach shows scornful intent and the illogic-ness of this whole reconciliation thing......... Just deep-six it, and rely on future elections to order the Thai political space, imho

And that is what this 2-for-1 thing is all about. Just another brick for the criminalization wall the Opposition has been trying to build around their political nemesis..............Winning elections is not an amnesty-able matter. But what happened at R'song is very much subject to amnesty discussions. ...Not sure how amenable those directly affected through the loss of loved ones, or those who have been struggling with the effects of injuries since, would feel about those responsible being given a free ride............... Also with respect to Jatuporn and Nathawut, since when is anti-coupism an amnesty-able matter. Mr. Abhisit and Suthep on the other hand, have both political and homicidal liabilities, the latter for which they have a culpability which they are now trying to 'defer and delay"...................... This kind of 2-for-1 gamesmanship is advancement of Opposition agenda's and a 'kick in the head' for those referenced above, who are most directly affected to this day.

A not so subtle misleading article, isn't it?.......... Trying to deprive the anti-coup UDD/Red Shirt R'song protest of its' political context, suggesting instead it was a criminal one. Certainly will delight the heart of coupists everywhere, and reinforce media biases to Red Shirts.......... Attributing criminalization motives to one's political opposites, either singularly or as an entire Movement, is just more of the elitist arrogance......... One can obviously reverse that characterization to coup perps as well....... Not sure what that accomplishes...moving political stuff into the realm of criminal motives, for either side. Not a recipe for political co-habitation.

They will never relinquish it.

Survival of the Red Shirts would depend a lot on funding. Being an insider, you might know who funds the Red Shirts. Is it Thaksin? He is undoubtedly generous to the Red Shirt leaders:

I read an interview with Kwanchai, the leader of "Rak Udon' yesterday. I've translated some extracts which maybe of interest to some readers.

Q. Some red shirts groups are proposing changes to the constitution, what are your thoughts?

A. These people are not real fighters, they're simply out for personal benefit.Some of them used to work for me in the past, arranging media activities. At the time of the petition for a royal Pardon for Thaksin, Rak Udon group collected 400,000 signatures, but these groups now couldn't get 10,000 to come to a rally. There were only 500 people at one of their concerts, more vendors than spectators.

Myself and Issan people have faith in Chalerm, like him,we believe changes to the constitution can wait. The government has no achievements yet due to the floods.There is no need for conflict now, we have 4 years. Clause 113 should be left alone. We never oppose or criticise the monarchy. We are loyal to the crown like Thaksin.I don't care if the hard core reds are angry with me, they only hide behind microphones and cyberspace.I live with the people.I'm building a red shirt centre on 18 rai, costing 15 million baht, I want the government to establish a trading centre and meeting hall.

I believe Yingluk will be PM for 2 sessions, 8 years in all.

Q. What direction will the red shirts of Issan take from now on?

A. Upcountry people don't want to be the tools of anyone anymore. Issan people lost a lot in the struggle for democracy.From now on we will work for the benefit of society, ie the ordination of 999 monks for the King on Jan 9th. Another example is the collection of 1 million bottles of water for the flood victims.

We support ourselves,we have received little support from either the UDD or Thaksin.

I went to visit Thaksin in the capacity of someone who respects and loves him, I never asked for anything though Thaksin may have given me 100,000 to 200,000 baht for the flights, the most I got was when I went to Cambodia to meet him, I received 500,000 baht. But Thaksin has never given me money for the movement, for he knows I am where I am because the peole have faith in me,not because of money.

Q. What are the aims of the 20 provinces red shirt assembly?

A. We want to make the movement stronger over the next 3 years, Korat is weak in terms of red support at present but with the death of Pairote and Suwat's party lacking a firm base,we should increase our numbers. The same in Buriram.Pheua Thai should win all 126 seats in Issan in the next election.

I want Thaksin to come home, I love Thaksin and his policies, I want the leaders of the UDD to understand the feelings of the villagers,notice the reaction of some villagers to the UDD leaders, the leaders should realise villagers are not stupid, rather they are straightforward, they love sincerely but if they feel they have been cheated they will react accordingly and the situation today is the people feel they have been cheated. If the UDD leaders arrange a football match in Sakon Nakhon with the whole UDD committee playing, there will be a crowd of only 100 people, but I only have to blow the whistle once and 4,000 to 5,000 people will come!

This is a very dated interview with Kwanchai.

Survival of the Red Shirts has nothing to do with funding. I know, living in their midst. That is an Opposition mantra trying to discredit the political awareness of the Red Shirts, suggesting the motivation is exclusively funding oriented. It is their arrogance on display suggesting only they have political astuteness.

"I am a Red Shirt from the heart" is how many describe themselves, and they quickly identify imposters, who are in it for what they can personally get out of it. I have observed a local organizational phenomenon, where leaders of a particular faction were drummed out, when it was realized they were seeking personal financial gain. They were quickly identified as not being RS's from the heart.

And holding on to that skewed perception promoted by their brethren, the Opposition will continue to be at a political disadvantage.

Underestimating one's opposite is not smart.

The coup and R'song are huge, huge historical realities that need to be rationalized in order for reconciliation to occur. This guy Suthep and Mr. Abhisit played huge, huge roles in both of these. Beneficiaries of the first, and perps. of the second. Until their culpability is declared, why are they allowed to associate themselves with anything to do with reconciliation. It is the height of irrationality for Suthep to suggest someone else has a 'conflict of interest', when he is the "poster child" of it in this instance. They both need to recuse themselves. I don't understand why the PTP even entertains their pronouncements. They are such 'damaged goods' that the major PTP constituancy and dominant political force in the country, the UDD/Red Shirts, would come unglued at anything that has their fingerprints on it. It isn't by accident that they often wear flip-flops with the photos of these two guys on them. I can fully understand why both Suthep and Abhisit are self-servingly preaching 'deferment and delay",............. His first quote above, and this reality, represent more nails in the 'reconciliation coffin".............. Fohget about it!......Simply let future elections take their course and get on with life.

I have heard Mr. Abhisit wishfully refer to this at one time, and see it again here. That being the notion of disbanding the UDD/Red Shirts (I will ignore for the moment calling this huge political movement a 'group'). The fact of the matter is that Thaksin or others if high standing, could call for such dispersal and dissolving until they were "blue in the face". Ain't gonna happen. The esprit-de-corps, cohesiveness and bonding of this citizen's political movement is such, that it would discard very quickly anyone who suggested it. Only when one contemplates its truly grassroots beginning, evolvement and bonded integration, could that be understood. The adage of United we stand, Divided we fall, is never truer than in this instance. The UDD/Red Shirts have been their vehicle to political equality and electoral dominance. They will never relinquish it.

An anti-Yingluck article if I ever saw one...... A litany of negatives, without a redeeming quality....... I wonder which side of the Political fence this writer is on...... Everything from denying her the resounding electoral victory she crafted, to suggesting there is only turmoil in her Cabinet, even though she deftly handled the recent Cabinet reshuffle, and turfed those who were seeking 2nd. opinions after receiving her direction. Not much point in itemizing all the Ms. Y. denigration this guy can muster, as they are self-evident......... An overiding theme however, as is the case with many of these anti-Ms. Y writers, is to create the impression there is.....well.......turmoil.....when that would not be the case if they, who are actually entitled to Governance, were in rightful power if it just wasn't for those dam_n elections. This epistle to contemptuous condescension of Ms. Y. comes out of a sense of political self-importance and inequality.

If this PAD group is against it, I'm for it....... Not complicated......... It seems to me, they should be more concerned about R'song 'implications' in the future for their own side, than continuing this self-serving diversionary focus on Thaksin. This perhaps gives some insight to their motives in harassing some specific reconciliation efforts. Mr. Abhisit's calls for delay and deferment to an unspecified future is particularly dubious considering his personal jeopardy. He really ought to be disengaged from these proceedings considering his culpabilities.

Here we go again. The Opposition running to the judges. In this case the National Anti-Corruption Commission, instead of using normal Parliamentary procedures. Is it any wonder the PTP is seeking to alter the following elements of the coup-based constitution:

Under normal circumstances, an Opposition would seek to 'tar and feather' a ruling Party in Parliamentary Question Period. And if the public agreed, they would conduct themselves accordingly next election. But they know the Public, other than their own electoral minority, does not share their anti-Thaksin agenda and are in effect put-off by it, so their MO is perhaps understandable.

I've been wondering about this so made some inquiries, or checked with "sources" as the media likes to say. I received the following response:

• Historically these KPI group of Academics were closely tied to Democrat Party and Amart perspectives.
  
• This recent seemingly more independent approach, is suspected to be at the direction of 'some significant other's" who wish to move to a more (re)conciliatory approach.
  
• It is speculated the same behind-the-scenes strings are pulling at Sonthi.
  
• There is more cohesion and 'working together' than may be obvious.
  

Can't argue with any of the above article and this quote. But what the article is promoting is easier said than done. In the above quote specifically, it is the view of many that Sonthi was far too 'small a potato' for staging a coup. He was only one small cog in the wheel 'turned by others' that enabled the coup to take place. And to isolate a single taxi driver for his own act of defiance is misleading. His example is not reflective of the vast majority who died and are struggling with injuries even today. People were killed by bullets. Bullets fired by pro-coup forces, at somebody's ultimate direction. Sonthi has excellent reasons which I can only spoeculate about, for not being forthcoming, and those who expect him to be, reflect a degree of naiivete, IMHO.

The difference in approach by the Cambodian Government and the Communist Laos with this UDD/Red Shirt gathering is interesting. The difference in approach can be summed up as follows - Fearfully controlled moneymaker vs. a come y'all, and spend your money:

As a result, many regions will be diverting their attendance from Laos to Cambodia even if the distance may be greater.

Big meeting in Nonghkai tomorrow, of regional UDD/Red Shirt leaders to coordinate and faciliate the large numbers crossing the Laos border for this Thaksin visit. There will be two crossings into Laos - Nonghkai and Mukhdahan. Three crossings into Cambodia. Not sure of locations. Also the paperwork required needs to be streamlined for such large numbers. Based on my observations, motivation is approx. 70-30. 70% for the camaradery, and 30% for Thaksin. Hell-of-a-deal for both Laos and Cambodia, considering the economic impact of such a large influx for a period of time.

Somewhere in this discussion dealing with alleged media censorship, it is worth remembering the total banning and elimination of the UDD/Red Shirt TV channel , D-Channel - by the coupists during R'song, while ASTV was allowed to merrily go on its' way, promoting those who were being protested against. Arguably, there is no Thai Media censorship in recent memory which had a greater impact in terms of antagonizing a dominant electoral block so shockingly, than that did, at that time. To all-of-a-sudden see a screen go black that thousands were glued to every day, was Orwellian to say the least. For every one of the thousands of protesters in Bangkok, there were 10 or more back home, watching their progress.......... I notice some people making dubious and unsupported negative comments about protester actions, without referencing what provoked them, such as the above. This is being disengenuous. During any protest as in this case, there are cause and effect. Referencing one without the other is misleading. Especially when one side is demonized. During protests as during divorce, there are always two sides to the story. One action begets another. Describing one without the other doesn't fly.

This litle lady has a lot of baggage. She wrote two books worshipping and idolizing Mr. Abhisit, and then attacked Ms. Y to the point of raising the ire of Ms. Y. supporters......... Trying to characterize an attack as 'tough questions' has been the media mantra of her supporters......... Most of you know this history.....But I understand there is one additional 'peel to this onion' not disclosed in the above article. That being Cambodia refused her and her team. Apparently reporters go as an advance team, and the quota was filled previously....But never mind. Considering the history noted above, one could expect 'tough sledding' for this little lady in covering Ms. Y. Best to re-assign her to cover Bangkok sewer development issues.

There seems to be a big disconnect here, between the bold-print initial paragraph, and the rest of the article. The initial paragraph is simply a 'dump' on Ms. Y..... It talks about a vicious political cycle, which is the ongoing mantra of the Opposition. Losing an election does not equate to vicious politics.........Who says there is a 'lack of foreign policy focus'. It is stated as fact, when all it is is Oppositional stuff........Then suggesting political vacuousness on the part of the well-dressed and charming Ms. Y, when that couldn't be further from the truth. The way she has managed all the powerful opposition elements while retaining the support of her constituency is remarkable.

The rest of the article tries to get at some significant issues, vis-a-vis Thai relations with the USA and China. It makes some excellent points to consider in this regard. I think Thailand should leverage its strategic value to both countries to the max., without being swallowed up by China.

With respect to the UDD/Red Shirts, I keep hearing an anti-American vein emenating from their websites, to the point that I am suspicious they are infiltrated by Chinese propagandists. Only speculation on my part, but some of the anti-Americanism I hear is ridiculous. There is an agreement we don't talk about this, as I am at polar opposites from the Red Shirts around here, in this regard.

I agree with the first quote above, and is why I have been saying all along, 'forget about reconciliation" Trying to make up for the loss of the election, reconciliation will not gain them what they want, and is probably tbe reason they staged a walk-out. Painting the "House Committee on National Reconciliation" as being divisive for surfacing the truth, is another indication of 'agenda laundering' via a researchy type mechanism. And I don't need to tell you whose agenda.

17.6% think a coup would end political conflict. .........Given the leanings of this Pollster, that is spurious, but assuming it has some partial validity, shows real ignorance on the part of some people. If they think 2006 ended political conflict, is an opinion beyond belief........ If there were people who said this, perhaps they are the same ones who cheered the PAD border adventures. Same kind of mindset.

I have been of the view for some time that Polls such as this one, are mostly skewed to Opposition friendly results, therefore making them an 'agenda laundering' tool. In this case, I almost gave the Poll some credibility until the last line of the article, quoted above. The research guy very clearly showed his true colors with it. The Opposition mantra, and ONLY the Opposition, try to denigrate Constitutional Reform and PTP reconciliation initiatives as having a simplistic focus on Thaksin. The research guy couldn't quite hold himself back from advancing the same agenda. It is very instructive to know the political leanings of supposedly independent polling, and the quote above reveals it in this case.

Of equal importance, they clearly demonstrate they have never been around Red Shirts in a meaningful way. When one is socially, and otherwise engaged with them, those descriptors are so out-of-sync with reality that they appear ludicrous, absurd and a total disconnect. It is absolutely clear that in those instances, agenda is at play, and not any sort of knowledge, as they try to project. They have never seen "a red shirt granny with a clapper" as Phiphidon so aptly puts it (above).

Another perplexing curiosity I have, is why all this focus on the limited fightback capabilities of the protesters, but nary a comment about what they faced. Just the sheer number of highly trained coup-defenders, never mind their overwhelming firepower, is hardly discussed. Why all this focus on 'David' instead of 'Goliath"? Especially when subsequent elections validated "David", and repudiated 'Goliath".

In order to maintain perspective, is to understand that those who have a very strong anti-Red Shirt narrative, have never had meaningful interactions with them. I can confidently say this on the basis of my social immersion among them. The negativity is so totally out-of-sync with that reality, that it is absurd and impossible, reflecting the non-involvement. Begging the question, if this narrative is based on non-association, where does it originate? It is certainly not shared by the majority electorate.