womble

Yes and it always takes a tradgedy to get things sorted.

It took a boat to sink and lives lost for the FMP speed boats to be sorted, many of us had been saying for years it was only a matter if time.

The FMP speedboats are not sorted, they still get hoplessly over crowded most FMP especially during the small hours of the morning.

A friend of mine counted 39 people getting of a speedboat (sunset pier Haad Rin) that was licensed for 26 passengers during August FMP.

MM

Hmm ok, Although I think in general they are better are they not? Are the bigger companies such as Grand sea tours and pecharat not offering life jackets now and a little less overcrowding?

Maybe the same ones who are so concerned with bangkok airways price increase.....will rally infront of the ferry and infront of those speed boat comapnies that are disregarding safety.

sorry Womble but you left yourself wide open for theat one....

So there's a selection of operators charging from between 300 and 600 baht.

Isn't that just slightly different to the monopoly that bangkok air are running and over charging on?

And no I will not be one of those to Rally as it's not something wise for a foriegner to do in Thailand. Those who do though will have my moral support and I shall no doubt toot my horn at them as I drive past to show my support.

Instead of Rallying I shall vote with my feet and on all occasions where I am forced to take the most expensive class of seat I will fly from Surrat taking the ferry and then driving. There was an advert on Tv with flights with Air Asia for as low as 50 baht! I expect these are hard to get, but I know flights for 499 and 999 are not so hard to get. Whatever it is it will be considerably cheaper than bkk air, and I simply will not pay over 10,000 per person rtn out of principle.

I would say a lot of parks will see a decline in visitors.

400 baht is ###### expensive for a visit to the park. Especially when there are no english guides, no Western toilets and a lack of english signs.

I know there are some members who are happy to pay whatever they are told to pay, that's fine, they're mugs.

I really do think 400 is excessive though double pricing or not the sites simply are not worth that, well 95% of them anyway.

This will come back to bite them, they may well collect less revenue this year, not more, and things like this leave a bad taste in your mouth, it will make people unhappy.

Thailand needs to be careful, they can only over charge tousists so many times whilst they are here before they realise they are being atken advantage of.

There are not many countries where the people are as greedy and money grabbing as they are in Thailand.

It's a very unnattractive part of the culture, and it's getting more and more extreme.

I didn't mean you were greedy or that you fell for a boiler room scam. That was just an example of another scam. But I do belive those that purchased the cards bought them in the mistaken belief they were getting a bargain.

And it wasn't meant as a personal attack on you although it may have sounded like that, actually everyone I know who purchased one uses the same excuse that they can afford to spend the 1m on it, they try to cover their wasteful spending by letting us know they can afford to throw money around. Kind of like people that set light to money or pour vintage champagne on the floor to prove a point that its only a bit of money and there's plenty more where that came from.

You don't need a shrink, a financial advisor maybe here try these guys they may be able to help https://www.devereandpartners.com

Although why someone would pay for financial advice off someone with less cash than themselves always amuses me. You only have to look at most financial advisors suits to realise they know about as much about investment as they do saville row.

It's 2nd and 3rd generation chinese afraid that another group of 'outsiders' is gonna come in and give them competition for something they worked so hard to win for themselves all those years ago.

Some historical perspective... which indicates that the projection numbers are continually "off" anywhere from astronomically "off" to significantly "off". Also included are references to questionable accounting methods, the mismanagement rampant during the history of the card, and lastly address even the possibility, or lack therof, of a buy-back when talk of cancelling it were considered earlier.

My comments have never been to personally attack any card buyer... repeatedly I've said what someone choses to spend their money on is up to them. I've been more concerned that the truth surrounding the card is published and allow for a more informed public.

The Nation

Published on Oct 11, 2005

Executives of Thailand Privilege Card Co Ltd, the issuer of prestigious Thailand Elite cards, flew to Moscow last week and are later to make a trip to London, trips deemed essential in boosting the number of membership cards to 2,000 by the end of the year [2005].

More overseas trips and events are planned for next year [2006], when card numbers are expected to rise by 4,000, thanks to road shows and the assistance of overseas partners.

===============================

At the end of April 2005, Elite Card had lost Bt250 million. Chansak Chooprasit, assistant vice president, said the loss resulted from the accepted accounting system used by membership businesses. Only 10 per cent of the revenue from membership fees can be reported every year, which means that it will take 10 years for each membership to fully show up on the company’s income statement. The company expects to break even in its 10th year.

===============================

Published on Dec 2, 2004

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday flatly denied any buy-back of Elite cards, vowing to continue the card project. News reports had Thailand Privilege Card planning to buy back all the 600-odd cards sold to foreigners at a price of Bt1 million.

Thailand Privilege Card Co Ltd, the card issuer, will soon settle the controversial advertising bills with foreign media, which have been outstanding for months, Thaksin said.

==============================

ELITE CARD FIASCO: ‘Minister ordered CNN ads’

Published on Oct 15, 2004

The investigation over who at the Thailand Privilege Card Co should be held responsible for the Bt300 million in advertising bills from CNN, Fortune and President magazines has stalled – after it was discovered a Cabinet member issued the order to place the ads.

===============================

I still find it hard to believe they managed to find 600 idiots willing to part with 1m for one of these cards.

Those that did fall for it may try to justify their stupidity by saying "the scheme is meant for those that can afford to spend 1m baht for such a card".

by the way........

The victims of boiler room scams are usually well educated and not short of a few bob, but their own greed and the belief they are getting a bargain is what makes them part with the cash.

Most people see throuh the scam, but there's always a few who get taken in.

I don't own a business catering to torists or anyone else, so i think I can be impartial.

I haven't seen any reduction in the number of tourists, and at times it seems like it's the most I can remember having seen. One thing I've observed however, is a proliferation of bars, clubs, restaurants, hotels, guesthouses and attractions aimed at the tourist trade. What some people may be complaining about, is getting a smaller piece of the same or even bigger pie that is the tourist trade.

You may be right but about sharing the action more, but I think the numbers we had pre Tsunami have not been beaten yet. Arrivals I believe are up from after then, but not up on the period before.

I believe 15m was the tourist target the year of the tsunami, obviously it wasn't reached. It also wasn't reached least year.

Anyway what I have heard is that bars are taking less this month than they did the same same month in the previous last few years.

This does not mean there has been less tourist arrivals, maybe the demorgraphics have changed?

2. Take away the Chinese-Thai and what do you get ? If Thailand wasn't run by them it would still be in the stone age and worse off than it's now.

If we look at the 'real' ownership, behind the scene, I suppose Indians may control 10 %?, Japanese 10 %?, Farang 20 %?, Chinese(-Thai) 40 %?.....then what's left for the Thais themselves..

I have no idea if this is correct....just a thought.....

No it's not correct.

I cannot count the amount of times I have seen packed buses which are driving live maniacs. Overtaking into oncoming traffic, overtaking on blin corners, and over taking on the brows of hill or even all three at once.

What I can't understand is how no one in the bus says anything.

This is something I think I never will understand. As if I was on one of those buses I would simply tell the driver to eigher drive safely or ask it to stop and let me off.

I take issue with the thoughts in:

"Whether foreign investment rules are ridiculously restrictive and should be relaxed - of course they are and should be."

I would contend that there is nothing ridiculous about a country making a decision not to sell its soul for a mess of pottage.

Of course, countries that have done so under the 'leadership' of Thatcher and Reagan will use any power they have to get you to follow suit.

Thomas L. Friedman, in his book 'The Lexus and the olive tree' calls it "putting on the Golden Straitjacket".

Thailand tried it for size, starting around twentyfive years ago and got one of the sleeves inside out. Hence the famous, though necessarily elliptical, speech about being satisfied with sufficiency in late 1997.

The election of 2001 resulted in Thaksin getting the power to try it again, but then it was seen what that would lead to. So various groups (for various different reasons) used whatever came to hand (mainly corruption and the Shin sale) to push Thaksin out of the driving seat.

The bottom line is that outside money (derived by China from selling consumer goods to Americans for money they haven't got but is paid for them by the US Government issuing T-bonds, and by Middle East countries pumping out oil) would like Thailand to put itself into that 'Golden Straitjacket'.

But Thailand, as a country, doesn't need to.

Hopefully, (having got rid of the younger and brasher), wiser and older counsels will now prevail; and outside money will be spurned.

Guess you're going home then...

Sometimes he sounds like he's a Thai himself.

Allbeit one in the dark ages.

Yes, it had crossed my mind. I guess he will be "spurning" other evil foreign invading items, such as oil, cars, computers, phones etc. etc.

Have we found the Thai equivelent of an Amish??

Not sure, but he'll have to live his Thai Amish life outside of Thailand as non Thai's wouldn't be welcome in the community.

do you actually know anything about this country and the way it works?

Not compared with what you know about Thailand, and me.

I hope to one day have as many posts as you do, and be as unhappy about Thailand as you are........

Another fool straight off the plane

hahahaha..........................Take your foot out of your mouth.

You assume because I don't spend my time on internet forums ranting about how hard done by I am, I must have been in Thailand a short while ?

hahaha........... Nice one.

Actually know it has nothing to do with the number of posts, it doesn't take a genius to work out that you can join a forum at any time.

It's actually your simplistic views of Thai's and Thai culture that could only come from someone who is eigher new here or has spent their whole time in bars completley unaware of what real life is like here.

and to prove my point here is another quote from creeper:

"As long as the girly bars stay open, Pattaya will always have a high season.

Close the bars, it'll be a ghost town."

You must be one of these people who thin ks that if they closed the gogo's and enforced prostitution laws the economy would crumble without your baht.

do you actually know anything about this country and the way it works?

A tour operator friend of mine told me recently that this will be one of Thailand's busiest ever Novembers. The coup had hardly any effect at all on tourist numbers.

Where is your bar located, just so I can pop in for a beer next time I pass

However, Southeast Asians are decades behind the West when it comes to attitudes about race. If you don't notice it, you really haven't gotten into the culture yet.

Yep I guess you must be right, I would imagine the Asians that get the crap beaten out of them in the inner city areas in the UK would agree that the West really leads the way in racial harmony. And of course, racism is non existent in the USA.

When will these Thais learn to be more like Westerners !!!!!!!!

Your a bit of a arn't you.

Another fool straight off the plane who thinks he knows everything.

You'll learn sonny, you'll learn.

I take issue with the thoughts in:

"Whether foreign investment rules are ridiculously restrictive and should be relaxed - of course they are and should be."

I would contend that there is nothing ridiculous about a country making a decision not to sell its soul for a mess of pottage.

Of course, countries that have done so under the 'leadership' of Thatcher and Reagan will use any power they have to get you to follow suit.

Thomas L. Friedman, in his book 'The Lexus and the olive tree' calls it "putting on the Golden Straitjacket".

Thailand tried it for size, starting around twentyfive years ago and got one of the sleeves inside out. Hence the famous, though necessarily elliptical, speech about being satisfied with sufficiency in late 1997.

The election of 2001 resulted in Thaksin getting the power to try it again, but then it was seen what that would lead to. So various groups (for various different reasons) used whatever came to hand (mainly corruption and the Shin sale) to push Thaksin out of the driving seat.

The bottom line is that outside money (derived by China from selling consumer goods to Americans for money they haven't got but is paid for them by the US Government issuing T-bonds, and by Middle East countries pumping out oil) would like Thailand to put itself into that 'Golden Straitjacket'.

But Thailand, as a country, doesn't need to.

Hopefully, (having got rid of the younger and brasher), wiser and older counsels will now prevail; and outside money will be spurned.

Guess you're going home then...

Sometimes he sounds like he's a Thai himself.

Allbeit one in the dark ages.

Yeah the drains are crap quality. I bet then spent 10% of the budget on the actual drains and the rest disapeard

As much as 10%, are you sure?

Have you seen the new traffic lights as well, they look real cheap, also they have countdowns now that seem to work some of the time. I wonder who owns the taffic light factory? Or the supply company, never seen this type of light anywhere in Thailand before.

Why don't they fix some of the holes in the roads before they start getting flash and give more excuses for people to race around the island with racing style countdowns.

certainly the bars areas in bangkok and pattaya are reporting the lowest takings for a number of years.

Yes and it always takes a tradgedy to get things sorted.

It took a boat to sink and lives lost for the FMP speed boats to be sorted, many of us had been saying for years it was only a matter if time.

The FMP speedboats are not sorted, they still get hoplessly over crowded most FMP especially during the small hours of the morning.

A friend of mine counted 39 people getting of a speedboat (sunset pier Haad Rin) that was licensed for 26 passengers during August FMP.

MM

Hmm ok, Although I think in general they are better are they not? Are the bigger companies such as Grand sea tours and pecharat not offering life jackets now and a little less overcrowding?

Yep, just get rid of the text books and listen to your elders.

You don't need to read, we can teach you all you need to know and you can learn all you need to know by hearing our spoken words.

Will Thailand's education system ever modernise?

The general knowledge of the average Thai is an absolute joke and their maths is disgraceful. And most Thai's (except those educated abroad or in international schools) that

I know who are by Thai standards well educated are really not well educated at all compared to similar aged people in UK, AUS, Singapore and even Malaysia.

Yes and it always takes a tradgedy to get things sorted.

It took a boat to sink and lives lost for the FMP speed boats to be sorted, many of us had been saying for years it was only a matter if time.

mai pen rai = I don't care.

The Thais don't care about this or any other alchohol sponsored event. The government came up with this ban under pressure from a small band of activists and now they can't be seen to back down. They would rather lose millions of Baht, lose the prestige of hosting a world rank event, lose the place in the sporting calender than back down and lose face.

Thailand's loss is Korea/S. Africa's gain and they will learn that Thailand is NOT unforgettable.

By loosing the tournament they also lose face, but worldwide, not just locally.

Yeah and if you pay more you don't get more respect, they just think your a mug.

Same goes for people who over tip!

Eigher ban foriegn investment and enforce the laws that are there now.

Or change the laws to allow foriegn investment with certain protections in place to safeguard the locals.

Allowing foriegn investment is never going to be a vote winner in Thailand even though with the right safegurds in place it will be very beneficial. They can't keep hiding from this issue this government doesn't have to rely on votes at any time so now is the right time to make the decision to give some proper lows to protect these companys investments as opposed to making them continue to operate in this ridiculous grey area.

Yeah and people think Thaksin built his wealth by being clever.......

There is nothing clever about bribing peopel to win concessions and better terms in those concessions.

Thaksin is an out and out crook. The only reason any of his companys have suceeded is through connections and bribery and most of those connections were made by the wife and her family.

"You people are evil. You call me a crook and corrupt. I am all alone here in The Middle of The Earth,, please won't someone give me a RING?"

.

You are looking at the once powerful Lord of The Ringtones

Yeah and people think Thaksin built his wealth by being clever.......

There is nothing clever about bribing peopel to win concessions and better terms in those concessions.

Thaksin is an out and out crook. The only reason any of his companys have suceeded is through connections and bribery and most of those connections were made by the wife and her family.

"The recent BK air price rises and the Lamai Tesco project seams to have cuased enough concern for people to make their objections and complaints heard.

A few years before that the Raja ferry price increase had people blockadeing the peir."

As soon as someones rice bowl is being messed with they soon start making a noise. It does seem though that unless someone is loosing money there is little complaining ever done, moaning amongst each other maybe, but actual action normally means someone must be loosing out financially and significantly.

If only they realised what all these problems will do to the tourist industry. I expect when the numbers start falling they will find something to blame it on, the coup maybe or something else that takes the blame off themselves as usual.