thaifamilyguy

OK,

I just got a panicky email/call that immigration visited our rather large Villa development and told property manager that she/owners of villas must register every foreignor in the villas immediatately.

She is asking for passport copies/visas & last entry stamp to "register" with immigration. We are all on fully valid O-visas so that is not the issue also having lived in China many years where they actually had such a registration system (and could because of the massive Police state it is) it would not be a crisis to have to do again here in Thailand.

This is not the usual 90 day visit to immigration thing, this is immigration coming to us. I am being told that the property manager would be fined if this not done.

BUT has anybody heard anything about this?? I am told that we can register ourselves at

at www.immigration.go.th

If this was not coming from a very smart woman running the properties I would ignore.

??? Or am I completely out to lunch and this is NOT news???

So many questions, please KEEP ON THEM FOR DETAIL.

I have a now 2+ year old that has no visa as never needed, overstays everytime while the older 2 children & parents have resident visas renewed each year. So will be interesting to see how thoughful immigration is on in/out for the 2 year old. No way to get her a visa as all of ours are based on the kids in school here.

I work outside thailand but thankfully even though out of country by plane every month, I went and got the full O visa, the limits on non-visa entries would have caused a huge crisis!

wjs

FYI,

I think it is only a matter of time, could be years, that visa requirements are enforced and stiffened and people will have to accept the new reality or move to another country that is more permisive. I spent two years just on the visa-free 30 days as I was traveling enough and always by plane and the first time I got a 60 day visa I only ended up staying 20. last year I got a resident visa and this decision affirms that. You just need to decide how "ahead of the curve" you want to me and what are the risks. If you gamble and lose then you gambled and lost.

I watched China develop from meeting a guy at a ferry port ahead of immigration and having him get me a 1 year multiple entry, no max stay, biz visa for a hundred bucks to having to second myself to a consulting firm and run some income through 12 years later, to it just being to silly costly in terms of required overhead and tax to stick around. (now in China any expat under 25 yrs old cannot get a work visa, period, no exceptions). China has always been a great example of a country that does what is best for China and screw everybody else, have to respect that.

No country has any obligation to allow foreigners to live in their country. if ever something is a "privilege" and not a right...What we can expect country's to do is whatever they consider is in their best interest (corruption aside) and not in what foreigners believe is in their best interest.

Thailand remains one of the few low cost resident "friendly" country's in Asia but as the region develops that will change. I would encourage anyone thinking of this as an indefinite residence to start to put together a "plan" on how to be squarely within the rules here or somewhere else (Philippines had some good options) It is all purely a personal preference for the level of risk. My heart goes out to anybody getting caught out on the 3rd visa-free entry as i assume those people also are the least able to deal with it financially, etc., but there will be more of these stories over time.

Anyway, for those "on the fence" this may be a necessary "wake up call" I would advice you give it serious consideration.

Just in case somebody thinks all opinions are equally authoritative.... (WSJ FROM NOV)

Thailand posted weaker-than-expected economic growth in the third quarter, and there is little to suggest its outlook will improve given the political risks, delays in government investment and lower auto sales.

The Thai economy grew 2.7% on-year in the third quarter, the National Economic and Social Development Board reported on Monday. That was below the expectations for 2.95% growth, according to The Wall Street Journal’s poll of economists, and the 2.8% gain in the second quarter.

In seasonally-adjusted on-quarter terms, the economy grew 1.3%, compared with expectations for a 1.8% rise. In the second quarter, the economy was flat, after contracting 1.6% in the first quarter.

The NESDB — the government’s economic planning agency — blamed the weaker-than-expected results on falling household spending and consumption after the expiration of the government’s First Car tax rebate last December resulted in a significant drop in auto purchases. Declining farm income and weaker consumer confidence also hurt consumption.

Growth was also hurt by a slowdown in construction, a fall in machinery and equipment investment, a slow recovery in global demand for Thai goods and sluggish shrimp production owing to an unresolved spread of a disease among shrimp stocks.

“We are surprised that both consumption and investment contracted in the third quarter. The momentum is clear and things are slowing down,” said Piyasak Manason, chief economist at Kiatnakin BankKKP.TH -0.63% in Bangkok.

In the wake of the third quarter data, the agency’s cut its official 2013 GDP growth forecast to 3.0% from 3.8%-4.3%, which prompted others to follow suit.

ANZ Research lowered its 2013 Thai growth forecast to 3.1% from 3.8%. Thailand’s Kasikorn Research Center also cut its projection to 3.0% from 3.7%, and TISCO’s Economic Strategy Unit cut its forecast to 3.2% from 3.5%.

The NESDB forecasts zero growth for Thai exports this year, which contracted 1.8% in the three-month period to September. The Commerce Ministry earlier this month slashed its forecast for this year’s export growth to 1% from 4% due to weak overseas shipments.

But even these less-rosy forecasts could prove optimistic. Economists worry that ongoing political tension and street rallies by tens of thousands of people protesting against Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra’s government and its amnesty law could snuff out the recovery.

“Political conflict in the country could hurt consumption and investment further while it remains to be seen how the recovery in overseas market will impact the situation in Thailand,” said Mr. Piyasak.

“Over a short term, political instability remains a downside risk for Thailand as it is not known how the situation will be resolved,” said Sutapa Amornvivat, chief economist at SCB Economic Intelligence Center. “The usual victim of conflicts in Thai politics has been private investment, which is already expected to be weak, and this risk is likely to continue into next year.”

Delayed state spending and implementation of the government’s investment plans, particularly the 350-billion-baht ($11 billion) flood and water management policies and the two-trillion-baht infrastructure investment projects, have been cited as reasons for the sluggish economy this year.

But the Thai government is remains optimistic it can pull out all the stops to boost future growth. The NESDB forecasts GDP growth of 4.0% to 5.0% for 2014 — the range that is in line with several forecasts.

“The government will push further with its spending plans, from the rolled-over budget of the previous fiscal year and the current year’s budget, which are hoped to help buoy the local economy considerably,” said Kittiratt Na-Ranong, Thai Finance Minister

The questioner already knows the answer, no there isn't some fundamental strength to the Thai Baht.

I am afraid that the baht and the Thai economy is in a bubble fueled by debt and flight capital out of developed world looking for some positive return. The reason this particular bubble is not as obvious as '97, well, think of two says the bubble forms, one is at the top and the other is at the bottom: Thailand has been digging a hole (debt/liquid FDI) under its economy since 2009, that hole is much bigger than the 10% depreciation against the USD since its height in the Spring. There is also pressure upward, particularly in property, I remain amazed at the asking prices and new construction going on at the moment. When interest rates start upward, pressure is going to be applied to the bubble from below and when China slows pressure from above, if political risk slips into real economic risk (no sign that inevitable) then again pressure.

When it "pops" is anybody's guess but plenty of people are thinking in the next year.

Bottom line, however is that its a crazy world at the moment, fundamentals just not driving much, the entire idea of the US Fed "tapering" is tapering from what is already so NOT fundamental (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing) , in the meantime people have found ways to make money RELYING on government polices that are unsustainable and promised to end in 2014.

Will be very interesting to see just how much of the "gains" over the last couple years are wiped out by this time next year..or, once again, its a crazy world...

Sorry but this is a classic. taking buildings is not a coup, they have not taken any power of the state/armed forces/police. None of those entities are saying they are going to do anything.

It is actually rather brilliant, sure come on in, now what you going to do? Its the King's birthday so best behave.

This movement has always required that it serve as a pretext for coup but nobody appears to be biting.

So sure, declare victory and now please all go home.

wjs

Yes, i can confirm 500,000 as well, person had attributed the new number to a trusted person but was of course just their own scew-up, so yes still 500,000. We had gotten caught out LAST year when the on second year need deposit to sit for 3 months so I figured it could have gone either way.

Thanks and apologies if this started any kind of rumor.

Just got word from school my son goes to and by which I got my O 90 day Visa, now have to deposit 800,000 THB for 30 days before qualifying for extension,

I am just putting that out there as would be very new, I have 2 weeks before have to put in the deposit but now having to move a bunch more money in than expected.

Anybody hearing anything out there?

I will updated as I get confirmation

Thanks for the advice on the stamp in new, but too late for me, problem I have is that where I am going the immigration guy has already caused complete nonsense problems when my one son got new O visa for the year, claimed he neede to transfer the old one first then have it cancelled, so bottom line is I do not want to give him the slightest excuse as I go to get the extension after the first 90 days.

So going to stick with the conservative advice, maybe our firend in Tokyo will be very relieved as he is already had his cancelled.

Great use of the Forum, thanks everybody!!

OK to end the story, gthai consulate in hK was quite clear, If passport cancelled then so is the visa, need to completely reapply to get into the country. If you are in the country already and get new one, then they can move it over in thailand. One point they made is that the visa is on one passort number but then coming in on different, this was not a new question to them./

US consulate very cool, they just said you lose your fee, at 90 days we'll send back to US the one they are holding for me now and it will be shredded, I can then come in and getting extra pages if I need them, etc.

Again this is Thailand so probably different answers different places and of course different answers at the border but I not risking it.

wjs

DogNo!, wish you had already come back to Thailand on your facts as that would be some comfort, I am going to go to the Thai consulate in HK tomorrow and will let you know what they say, but then again I have to weigh just what will happen with one in Thailand as not like they ever agree with each other!

USA cancells your old one with a big stamp across your picture page and punches holes in it...it is clearly NOT valid from then on. I agree that the ordinary situation is taht you get the new one while in Thailand and do a transfer over, did that for my son (he didn't leave, I just took his old one with me to HK and came back with both...a little risky as he was without a passport for a week). That had sort of lulled me into thinking it woudl be fine but of course I am actually traveling on mine....

Anyway, I am goign to go to Thai consulate on day one and ask them, gee what if I get a new one in HK.. if they say they can do somehting then I go straight to US consulate and pick mine up and back to them with a big smile on my face....if any hemmign and hawwing, then will string US consulate along to see if they will hold mine beyond their 3 mth time limit....

I will keep you posted as might all be useful for somebody some day......thanks for all thie inpurt!!

Ubon Joe is correct btw, but guess what, the new one is dated from the date of application so that will be a fun thing if anybody picks up on it....goign to go into damage control mode and not pick up the new one as then all good.

This is helpful as I am now leaning heavily toward NOT picking it up until I've got the one year in there...i.e. nobody has any direct experience here of the tangle I've got myself into. Old rule of thumb, when you find you've dug yourself into a hole, stop digging.

Thanks for the replies, I not in Bangkok, in HK a lot so much easier to get new. I have multple re-entry in my "old" passport. I am tempted, honestly NOT to go get my new passport and let it expire at the Consulate (I believe you have 3 months to pick up, then they send it back...applied in October..... I needed extra pages and the clerk said gee why not just get a new passport (expiring in 2015). If the dates work, i.e. I get back before the deadline for them on the old one, I may just do that

The problem of being a lifetime expat, you get yourself tied up in knots sometimes......

wjs

Have 90 day O visa, took me a trip to KL to get, I am now going to Hong Kong to pick up my new passport, not converting to one year O visa (as dependant of child-student) until another month +,

Question is how best to deal with this?

1. Just come back in with old and new passport, having them use the visa in the old passport (which will be stamped cancelled) but stamping in the new (they did this for one of my children locally at the 90 day notice, didn't seem to bother them).

2. Go to the HK consulate and ask them to bless this and/or transfer the visa over without going through the whole process again (which I can't do as HK would have never given me the O visa to start with)?

I could kick myself as I really didnt need to get the need passport (USA) this early but was updating my sons so though I was being efficient, then coudln't get back to pick up before I needed to do the O visa run to KL.

Any wisdom out there?

1) I was working at a hotel some years ago and had lots of equipment I was taking down to the lobby, when I got there lift doors opened and about 15 chinese tourists piled into the lift blocking my way out. so having access to the controls I turned off the lift and waited, it was like they never saw me, I was a ghost to them. I waited about 20 min for them to finally evacuate the lift so I could unload the equipment. There had no reaction to me whatsoever even when they must have noticed me turning off the lift with a key!!!!!

2) Only last week there was a Chinese family in Tesco Lotus, I was looking at some products on a shelf when the fat woman pushed me out the way so she could grab something that was directly in front of me, in fact the entire family (5 people) just hijacked my spot without an excuse-me or kortoad in sight, nothing... just Argy-bargy

So I tried their tactic back at them I pushed in front of them and grabbed a product off the shelf right in front of the fat womans face (2 inches away) I thought my action was so rude they would have gotten the message, but NO they ignored me completely.

I wonder if the chinese are living in a different parallel universe and we are all invisible to them, just a thought?

Haha, good experiences. I agree with you, it's like they are living in a different world and are unaware (or don't give a $h17) about the rest of the standard world X-D

mainland never did "lines" to line up for anything, you pushed your way to the front (say to mail a letter) and the clerk just decided who was next, realized it gave the clerk the power to choose and she/he couldn't care less what was happening on the otherwise of the counter....you would not see this in Shanghai but in most of china? yeah, you lean in grab what you can and get out, they expect no less from you if that is any help!

I lived over a decade in China, some of the considerations are where these particular tourists are from, its a big country. Even chinese in the big cities have to deal with chinese that come in and have no clue how to navigate (or appreciate the risks). I used to chaulk this all up to growing up when there were no cars only bikes and so long as you walked w/out any sudden moves, the bikes just move around you...then they show up in a city and wham!...Walking down the street is very often the norm in many places in china where the sidewalks was short and cluttered with merchants using as if extensions of their shops and again, few cars.

I would guess they are mostly reletively poor employees on company trips, 1/2 the cost of which I am sure ends up in the CEO's pocket. I have heard the tour guides stand up at beginning of flights and explain how they need to stay in their seats on take off and landing, no spitting on the floor, etc....and still there is often some guy, at 300 ft on approach, who gets up and goes to the bathroom.

Company trips are expected and Thailand works very well as very favorable entry.

We happened to be off Island when it happened and have been staying that way but now planning on coming back tomorrow, sounds like they may have sort of fixed the problem, whatever that problem was exactly they not know, but gee electricity is working again. Ah Island Life.

If people really in the dark again all day today would appreciate a head's up!

Thanks, that is what I thought but just in case there was actually something to use as leverage, I was aware of the mosquito treatment, which is me having to take responsibility for somebody else's pool and as I believe he has his cistern dumping in there, I would need a lot of it, anybody know the best mosquito larve eating fish?

We have a house in our area that has a big pool and it left to fill with water, it is clearly a serious source of mosquitos/flies and thus very dangerous. Not that any law would be enforced, without "encouragement" but I am curious if anybody knows if there are laws similar to Singapore that could deal with it. I would think unlikely but would like to know my rights. Its a villas that is actually habitable, just not bothering with the pool as they not living there.

wjs

Thanks for the responses, I would agree with the usual approach to shareholding going into probate, so assuming a will, either a Thai will or foreign will properly probated in say HK, with simple direction, there's no inheritance tax that I know of, etc. BUT that doesn't mean that is the rule/law in Thailand.

I did hunt down why I was getting red flags and came across this outfit which is marketing a pure Thai company arrangement, for a fee. In there FAQs they representing that the Thai company has to be closed not sure I've got enough yet to close this inquiry down. i.e. anybody have first hand knowledge? My concern about getting "advice" in a place like Thailand is that you only find out later that actual practice not match.

• http://www.macsm.com/propertypurchase.php
  
• What happens if the client dies?
  
• Unlike when a person dies holding a Thai company where the whole company structure has to be closed, In this case the investment can continue or the property can be sold without any complications with the sale proceeds going to the immediate relative.
  
• The investment agreement can be put in a Will and left to a relative or friend
  
• I am NOT saying I agree with this but does have me still asking questions.
  

Not looking for detail advice, just if there's "smoke" here that I should work through. Assuming foreignor owners 49% of Thai company dies. Does anybody have direct experience (Ok not too direct, I want don't want comments from Ghosts) of whether there is any unusual effect, i.e. company has to be liquidated, shares transfered w/in certain period of time? Forget the basics of Thai Probate, etc. That not the issue, its how the Corp structure is effected by death.

I have only third hand that if foreign shareholder dies, the company has to be "closed down" which I assume means liquidated, etc.

Again this just a shout out on this issue to better evaluate any investment here.

First Amendment of the US Constitution protects all speech short of screaming "fire" in a crowded theater, that way nobody gets the power to decide what is "good" speech and "bad" speech.

These particular Islamic countries have little to no experience of such a restriction on government power (if any), thus very easily misled into thinking that the US could have done something but chose not to out of disrespect for Islam.

That is NOT to say that the demonstrations are representative of a consensus of any of the countries. it was local citizens that rushed the Ambassador in LIbya to the hospital, etc. Egypt has scrambled to demonstrate they will protect the US installations and have been condemning the violence. The numbers are actually quite small.

Everybody needs to take a breath and wait a while to sort out the facts and the significance.

I am not going to be looking over my shoulder...in Thailand? Please.

The China demonstrations against Japan are much more interesting given how much the China government has stoked nationalism over the last decade. Japanese companies just got a perfect excuse to close plants that they need to downsize given the slowdown. And this the same misunderstanding, the Japanese government stepped in to purchase some of the islands from private hands to stop the nationalist Tokyo mayor who was going to make his name getting involved in the dispute. BUT gee, its a rule of law issue again and God knows that now exist in China.

Thanks for all the advice, have small children and they wslking in bird poop or having them poop on the counters while eating our food, etc, not sustainable. Cat is right, but not want one, so will consider the other options thanks.