durhamboy

Btw, Fittobethaied, are you saying that insurance is not a requirement for the Marriage Visa but is for the Retirement Visa?

Good points about the insurance guys, thanks. It would be my intention to get reasonably good private insurance for me and my wife. To me the amounts insured quoted B400k (about £10k) for in-patient and B40k (£1000) for out patient look a bit on the low side. One of the reasons we are going to Thailand is that I feel that I can no longer trust the UK NHS. Don't get me wrong, there are some wonderfully, dedicated people in the NHS and it has been a great organisation. Unfortunately covid-19 has put it really under the spotlight and, in particular, the government's utter failure (imho) to properly fund it and provide basics such as PPE.

1 minute ago, CharlieH said:

How would you explain not being on the electoral role for the address you have given and not paying Poll tax either or being credited for same if eligible. Just curious.

Yes, good point but do you really think HMG would launch such an investigation on the basis that someone MIGHT not have told the DWP and MIGHT not be entitled to annual increases. After all, we are only talking about annual increases here. There is no question that people are entitled to receive a pension wherever they live and that pension can be paid into a UK bank account.

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Lying to HMDWP is not something to take lightly, they also talk to other people. There is the occasional proof of life certificate that makes things a little more complex. 

Sorry but the question was "how would they know"? As far as I know, whilst someone may be obliged to tell the DWP there is no compulsory procedure in place. When you leave the UK it's probably with a 90-day visa which, in itself, doesn't really mean anything. So it's not really a case of lying to the government - I'm sure many people are unaware of this and simply don't realise that they should advise the government and they don't know they are not entitled to increases. If you go to live in The Philippines you are entitled to annual increases. Why is that? Seems a pretty grey area to me and not as black or white as telling a lie.

4 hours ago, pagallim said:

The reality is that the additional requirements of a marriage extension versus a retirement are not that onerous for what is a once in a year occasion.   Another factor is that you cannot obtain employment in Thailand with a retirement extension, you can with the marriage option.

Thanks for this. It is very unlikely that I would work in Thailand. If that did happen, then presumably I could switch to a marriage visa as per my question above. Cheers.

Many thanks for all the replies guys. At first I was thinking to go for the marriage visa but you've changed my mind. A few supplementaries if you don't mind :-

1. If I get a retirement visa could I switch to a marriage visa at some time in the future? The only reason I can think of to do this is if, after many years, my money runs a bit low.

2. With the retirement visa financials I think it is possible to do a combination of money in the bank and income i.e. 800k in bank OR 65k income OR a combination of both. So, for example, if my income was £15,000 p.a. then would that mean the bank requirement would only be 200k i.e. £15,000 x 40 (ex. rate approx) = 600k. 800k-600k = 200k. Is that broadly correct? Also, my understanding of the rules is that you cannot combine income and bank funds for the marriage visa i.e. it is 400k bank or 40k per month income but not a combination.

3. With the marriage visa you confirmed that you have to take your wife with you each year. That may not always be convenient. Also I hear that they do some checks on the marriage e.g. photos, house visits etc. which is probably a bit of a pain hence, as said above, the Thai IOs prefer retirement visas.

4. So the cost is only THB 1,900 regardless of which type. That's less than £50. The annual cost of a spouse visa in the UK is now £1,037 (including the compulsory NHS surcharge which is now more than the visa!) + extras such as BRP fees and submitting documents. Big difference!

5. Slightly off topic, but with regard to the UK State Pension if you live in Thailand I understand that you don't qualify for pension increases. However, if your pension is paid into a UK bank account then how would they know not to include annual increases?

Sorry for the 90 day reporting I meant to ask can this be done ONLINE for both types of visa?

Apologies if this has been asked before but if a UK national is over 50 and married to a Thai national what would be the best visa to apply for, retirement or marriage?

I've done some research and it seems they both require :-

1. 90 day reporting - can this be done for both types of visa?

2. Renew by extension every year - is the cost THB 1,900?

3. Need re-entry permit if leave Thailand - cost THB 1,000? I presume this would also include a land border crossing into, say, Laos.

I understand that the financial requirement for a marriage visa is a bit less - 400k in bank or 40k per month income - whereas the retirement visa is 800k or 65k per month (or a combination of both for only this visa).

I also understand that initially a 90 day non-immigrant "O" visa is required from the Thai Embassy in London. With this visa would a 1-way air ticket from UK to Thailand be acceptable or should there be some sort of proof of onward travel or return ticket?

Finally, I've heard that Permanent Residence (PR) is possible in Thailand. Are the conditions onerous to be eligible for this?

Any advice appreciated. Many thanks.

Guemlum,

I fully understand your reasons for wishing to wait until your wife's visa expires before renewing. Just to say there isn't really a right or wrong way in the scenarios we discussed here. Both ways would be equally acceptable.

With regard to the date you should submit the application for FLR, yes it can be 28 days prior to 3rd Feb 2021 as you say. However the way the Home Office work is a bit of a mystery. Every time my wife's FLR is done she gets a bit more than 2 1/2 years - about 1 month more. So, in my opinion, it is best to wait to as close to the expiry date as possible before submitting the application. Although there isn't a period of grace as long as you do it online before the expiry date (i.e. 3rd Feb in your case) you will be ok and you will probably get about a month's free visa.

Regarding the type of visa. Firstly I'm a bit surprised that no one else in this forum has bothered to advise you on this. I've just looked at my wife's previous FLR application form and under Type of Visa Application I had put "Family Route" and it was accepted. I hope this helps. Good luck.

Guemlum,

For the correspondence I think you have enough as you can submit 2 separate letters instead of 1 joint letter. Best to read through the FLR guidance to make certain.

Regarding your wife's FLR expiry the initial visa she got in Thailand would have been for 2 years and 9 months so therefore the expiry date in the letter from UKVI of 3rd Feb 2021 looks to be correct so you wouldn't need to apply for FLR until just before that date. Does she also have a BRP (Biometric Residents' Permit)? That should also show the expiry date on it.

By the way, you can actually apply for FLR at any time (even theoretically on the first day she actually arrived in the UK!) if you were minded to do so. Normally it makes sense to renew when leave expires however your case is a little different in that 1st. October is when the NHS Surcharge goes up from £400 to £624 p.a. If, say, you applied for FLR on 30th. Sept. you would save £560 in NHS Surcharge (£624-£400 x 2.5 years). However, that would mean that the FLR would expire at the end of March 2023. So you would then "lose" 4 months of her visa (i.e. visa fee £1033 + NHS Surcharge £1560 = £2593 /30months x 4 months = £345). There would still be an overall saving of £215. You would also have to consider if your wife will meet all the requirements for ILR in 5 years (B1 English, LITUK etc). If so, then the saving wouldn't be worth it because she might then have to have 2 FLR renewals instead of 1 to get FLR. Also, not sure of the impact of Covid-19 on all this. Sorry this is so complicated but I don't make the rules! Good luck.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-spouse

https://edmansco.com/spouse-visa-ilr/

CornishCarlos - the screenshot is for Citizenship not ILR. You can tell by the fee because it is £1330 for Citizenship (per the screenshot) and £2389 for ILR.

See the websites that I've attached.

See the ILR website :-

"Absences for Spouse Visa ILR application

There are no specific requirements for maximum absences for those applying for ILR based on holding UK spouse visa."

It does go to say "If the majority of time on UK spouse visa was spent overseas, the Home Office may doubt whether the couple intends to live permanently in the UK. Every application will be considered on its merits, and there is a variety of factors Home Office will assess, including reasons for the absence, length of the absence, whether the couple resided together during the absence in question etc. "

See the ILR Citizenship website :-

"Residency requirements

You should not have:

• spent more than 270 days outside the UK during the 3 years before your application
• spent more than 90 days outside the UK in the last 12 months"

So that pretty much confirms what I originally advised you.

Don't quote me but I don't think there is a limit as such. I think when you apply for FLR they asked for the dates that you have been outside of the UK. I would say that it might be a problem if you were out of the UK for more than 6 months in any 12 month period because that might be taken to mean that you are not settled here. When you apply for Citizenship you do need to show that you spent no more than 90 days outside the UK in the previous 12 months before the application.

I 'll answer what I can :-

Settlement Visa Fee £1523 + NHS Surcharge still £1000 (goes up to £1560 in October) - actually the NHS Surcharge maybe £1100 as the initial visa is 2 years 9 months so better check that. Also they calculate the visa fees using an arbitrary US Dollar exchange rate which almost certainly means you pay a bit more - crazy I know!

Yes you need a TB cert.

Sounds like your wife's degree would satisfy the English requirement but better double check. You need to show this when you apply for the settlement visa.

I think you would need to apply for FLR 33 months after the settlement visa was granted.

Yes you need to show proof of required financial level at every FLR application. Ditto for payment of NHS Surcharge.

You need to pass LITUK before applying for ILR not after.

Hope this helps.

Wobbly, that is interesting. Where the letter says "her leave is automatically extended at the time of the submission of the application" is that just talking about during this covid-19 crisis or does that apply in general at any time?

I agree wobblyjohn and to make it worse from October it goes up from £1000 to £1560.

I think that you are talking about the 800k baht that you need to have in a bank account for a Thai spouse visa. That's about £20k so a lot less than the £62,500 you need in the UK if you are relying on savings for a UK visa. I have heard (though never done it) that you can quite easily get access to your money. You certainly do not lose it. Unless things have changed in Thailand, I heard that you only needed the 800k in a bank account for 1 day and you could even borrow that money to do it. With the UK system you can't really spend the £62,500 because you will need it next time you renew the visa.

Yes you have a point about health insurance. You get that with the UK NHS Surcharge (you did before the surcharge was introduced anyway) but you have to get your own in Thailand. I believe it's not compulsory but they may be making it mandatory soon. Of course you really should not live in Thailand without health insurance. The 100k plus THB premium you mentioned seems quite steep - underlying health issues maybe? Half that amount I think would be the norm.

What I think may happen (and this is only just my opinion) is that as the financial requirements for the UK spouse visa (i.e. income of £18,600 p.a. and/or savings of £62,500) haven't changed for a number of years I expect them to be raised in the near future. One think HMG might point out in its infinite wisdom is that people will need to have more income/savings to pay for the bloody visas!

Guys, a spouse visa in Thailand costs THB 1,900 p.a. i.e. less than 50 quid compared to £1100 p.a. in the UK!

How on earth you think that the UK is a bargain completely mystifies me. Puchooay, you also mention "The way Thai immigration rules are going............" What are you talking about? Thai immigration rules for allowing spouses to stay in Thailand are very easy and affordable and have been for many years. What they don't give out so easily is Permanent Residence but most people live quite happily with that. What you need to look at is the way UK immigration rules are going (and have gone for the last 15 years).

A few things Puchooay :-

1. Yes NI contributions do go to towards getting a pension. I think you need at least 10 years contributions to qualify for a reduced pension - 35 years of contributions for a full state pension I think. But that is the same for everyone living and working in the UK. The NHS Surcharge is imposed just on immigrants plus they have to pay NICs if they work.

2. Also financial requirements and the cost of visas are 2 separate things. You don't get a reduced visa fee for having a lower income.

3. I wish you good luck with the settlement visa for your wife. It's good that you are trying to see the positives. Let me know if you find any because in my honest opinion it is a draconian system that has 2 main objectives. Firstly, keep immigration down and, secondly, make exorbitant amounts of money from those that manage to go through all the many hoops. You make a comparison with the Oz visa system in 2004. At that time the cost of a UK settlement visa was around £250 - no English test, no LITUK, no TB etc. Just a one time payment of £250 and after 2 or 3 years you got ILR (no further payment I believe) and you qualified for Citizenship (small fee for Citizenship c£300 I think). So in my example above had the same application been made in 2004 the cost would be £250 instead of the £46,960 it would be today (188 times more!). So, again, good luck with finding positives because I can't see any.

2 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Whilst I agree with your sentiments it could be worse. My parents emigrated to Oz in 2004. The requirement was for them to pay 3000 Oz dollars a year for medical insurance. This only covered them for half of any hospital fees.

 

At least NI contributions go towards a pension too.

Again I think you're wrong. I don't think that the NHS Surcharges go towards a pension. 

Yes, if you look at the NHS Surcharge in isolation then £624 p.a. is not bad when compared to buying health insurance in other countries. The trouble is that it is coupled with already punitive visa fees so it is the total cost that people are concerned about. I wonder how much your parents paid for their Oz visa?

Puchooay, sorry but you are incorrect. A LITUK pass is mandatory for ILR up to the age of 65.

When you say "anyone ......should be able to pass this" I assume that you are talking about the B1 English Test. It is certainly not the case that anyone can pass LITUK.

I mentioned the passport and citizenship fee as a footnote because, as you say, they are after the ILR stage.

Scenario - young person goes to Thailand and meets the love of their life and decides to marry - the Thai spouse is, say, 21 years old.

No matter how hard the Thai spouse tries he/she cannot pass Life in the UK test.

He/she will be entitled to Indefinite Leave to Remain when they reach 65 years of age.

At today's prices the total visa cost would be :-

Initial Settlement Visa + NHS Surcharge £3083

16 Further Leave to Remain renewals + NHS Surcharges £1033 + £1560 = £2593 x 16 = £41488

ILR fee = £2389

Total cost = £46960

This excludes costs of TB test, English tests, BRP fees, Citizenship fee (£1330), uk passport fee etc. It also excludes any fee increases over the 40+ year period.

So say goodbye to £50 grand!

Yes, when the NHS Surcharge was introduced in April 2015 it was only £200 p.a. So in 5 years it has more than tripled! Also, as you say, people subject to immigration control and who are working also pay NICs and in effect they are double paying.

The only way around it is to pass Life in the UK but seeing as most Brits couldn't pass it then it is a tall order for a lot of immigrants. My rant over!

Thanks for this OG. Whilst the cost of a visa remains unchanged the NHS Surcharge rise is a massive hike from £400 p.a. to £624 p.a. i.e. a rise of 56%. That means that the NHS Surcharge is now more expensive than Further Leave to Remain i.e. FLR = £1033, NHS Surcharge = £1560 (51% higher!). More straws on the camel's back!

Does this apply to those with Leave to Remain under Spouse/Partner Settlement in the section headed 

"If you’re in the UK and your leave expires between 24 January 2020 and 31 May 2020"

or do they mean just those with visitor visas?

14 hours ago, Elad said:

If the government are paying 80% of wages, then they should drop the 18,600 threshold by 20% for those who are affected.

Yes that would be a logical move. However, it seems that the 80% will take a few months to be paid and Universal Credit may have to be applied for in the meantime. I suppose that would technically mean that people are "living off benefits" which may not be allowed for visa purposes. Also if it is the Thai spouse/partner who is otherwise earning are they allowed to claim Universal Credit?

As this thing progresses then more logistical problems may arise e.g. attending English tests, LITUK tests, submitting documents for leave to remain etc. Hopefully HMG will grant automatic extensions for the duration.