SDM0712

The driving risks I have learned since being here are daft driving by locals and dogs. Was just my thought........

In my truck a dog will be history but on a bike it could be catastrophic for a rider at speed.

We are taught if a dog crosses our path to put the power on and ride over it. Fortunately I have never been in that position.

I did hear that in terms of road fatalities Thailand is now number three in the world, I also heard that the Phuket authorities stopped publishing stats about three months ago!

SDM

1.30am+high speed...pretty safe bet to assume a bottle or 2 of Vodka was also involved. . It was kind of him to not take out any innocents in his moment of glory though.

Probably not safe to assume, but definitely a fair chance. Having said that I'm quite often on my Ninja 650 at that time of the morning and breaking the speed limit (whatever that is anyway), but am never drunk, I enjoy my life too much!

I believe that this is more likely down to the type of bike combined with the riders inexperience, or could also equally be worn tyres, damaged tyres, tyres with incorrect pressures, a bent fork, oil on the road, sand in the road, a pot hole, a cat or dog running out.... the list goes on and could kill even the most experienced sober rider in the blink of an eye, even at a moderate speed.

I don't know about the R6s, but have heard the R1s are very hard to control speed wise. Probably because they are race bikes I have known people take them back because they just can't hold the speed down.

I can't see any way to regulate this either. The Thais only have one type of licence that allows us to ride any power range, and they assume if you can ride a 125 cc, as all Brits can do on a UK standard car licence, that you can handle any power.

A life is lost and it's a shame. He wasn't a murderer or a rapist (that's me assuming!), he was just a holiday maker who didn't think and is now dead. A shame indeed.

SDM

I'm over in Phuket and it always amazes me when I see tourists trying to ride scooters let alone the big boys. They either have limited or no riding experience. I think they all believe it's so simple to ride a bike, and it is, in a straight line on a quiet road. But bends are a different matter as the bikers will know. I remember the first time I was taught to counter on bends, I thought my leg was being pulled, and I also remember as a novice trying to take a corner at speed without leaning or countering, gave me the fright of my life. I really only take a bike into Patong because of the traffic and parking problem and see on an almost daily basis tourists on R6s or R1s with no idea how to control them, stalling them, dropping them. Really they are not sports bikes, but race bikes, they belong on a track not pottering around a town! I feel sorry for the guy but imagine he had no idea how to deal with the power and no idea how to take a bend at speed.

RIP.

SDM

As for the driving habits: I very vividly recall that moment when I was cruising with my rented chopper - while whistling "born to be wild" - around Phuket and in that sharp left curve was confronted with a car coming towards me on MY lane (and yes I DID drive on the correct side of the road). It was a police car. Fortunately I managed somehow to avoid a frontal collision.

Sounds about right. I heard that the powers that be stopped publishing road accident figures recently, we do have a bit of a reputation in Phuket, especially Patong Hill running between Kathu and Patong. I must have done that road around a thousand times and it still catches me out. There is usually a weekly/fortnightly death which really has ceased to be news as sad as that is.

I have a MU-7, Class One insurance is around 12,000 p/a and the porobor, which includes the required insurance is around 7,000 p/a.

SDM

PS I also have a Ninja 650, bags more fun, a little less luggage space, but the insurance is still a whopping 10,000 per year !!

I've got a MU-7 which my father-in-law used to insist should be 30PSI all round but the car handled like a water bed. In my Cayenne at home the recommend PSI was around 36 front and 43 rear. I tried this on the Isuzu and it was bouncing around like a giant space hopper. I'm happiest at 35 all round, still feels like a boat though.

Everyone has a different idea, even Isuzu say it depends what you are carrying. I think really it's down to personal preference, but, and I haven't looked (it's dark), I believe the maximum load is about 60 on the tyres, wouldn't try it though.

SDM

I used a Blackberry 9900 with dual touch screen and physical keyboard and also a Blackberry Z10 pure touchscreen. Very happy with both and they do everything you have mentioned +

S

Simply cannot pick and choose a dog at random for vehicular execution, collar or not. You might find a big crowd of people bashing in you car windows and dragging you out by the throat. Much worse that the dog bite. Cultural difference...and yes..you will definitely pay (lucky if its only money).

I agree completely, but I think in a case where a dog is frequently attacking people, damaging property and generally being a concern, especially if children are playing in the area then something needs to be done. I have never lived in a village so really can't speak to that but on the estate that I live in at the moment the security patrols carry catapults, not really ideal either but we just don't want them near our kids.

I think however in this chap's case it wasn't really a "random vehicular execution", it sounds as if this dog was a major problem for a long period of time.

SDM

I think my point has been missed. I am not suggesting that all dogs wear collars I am merely suggesting that since the dog did have a form of collar that it probably was owned by someone and that should have been investigated.

My second point has also been missed, I am not suggesting that UK rules have any relevance legally, but from a moral view point my conscience would be clear since I consider the UK system to be fair.

SDM

The dog didn't have a regular collar just some rope tied around its neck. Plus, the sister of the woman who wants 20k, like I said, is a neighbor of ours and she has never in more than 3 years mentioned even once that her sister owns this dog

We have had dogs like this on some of the sois I have lived at and usually the companies that manage the Soi can remove the dogs. If the dog is being threatening and attacking people and the Soi won't get rid of it, to protect your yourself, neighbours and your family I would have done a similar thing. However to play devils advocate there is the issue of the rope around its neck, however tatty, it must have been put there by a human, so the posibility was always there that it was owned by someone. Perhaps you should have made some investigation first. For me I always find it very annoying that Thai owners allow their dogs to roam the streets it serves them right if anything happens to them. I never let my dogs off my property, I wouldn't what them mixing with any scummy dogs or upsetting anyone.

Personally I would say to her that you know nothing about it, but you are pleased since the dog had attacked your friends and family and caused damage. Also now that the owner has been identified, that it is you should go to police because this person has failed to control their property and the result has been fear and damage in the Soi. Unless she has evidence I don't see what could be done anyway and even if she did unless it's a proper breed it would be worth nothing.

Personally I feel that you have done nothing wrong, you have stood up for yourself and if this so called owner has allowed her pet to abuse people in this way she should lose it. In the UK the owner might have had the dog confiscated, possibly put down, and be fined. I know we are not in the UK but the principle is there.

SDM

I decided something pretty similar last year. I don't consider myself to be a cheap charlie but I get a bit hacked off sometimes with the expectation that as non-Thais we should tip all the time and more than our Thai "hosts". The rule I follow is I do as the Thais do in a restaurant where they would not tip, or give 20 baht, I will do the same. If I go to a tourist or higher class restaurant I will do as we do and tip around ten percent, but if a service charge is added I give nothing.

Even if I go to Caltex in the motor or bike they used to say "Tip for me", and I would say " for what. " They don't ask anymore.

SDM

No, quite legally, with correct visa and work permit.

SDM

My dear NamKangman. This information is of course contained within my posts. The reason is that since I am a Central London Estate Agent of around 25 years experience I am very well equipped to open a property company here, but as I have have never owned a bar, like you my only experience is sitting on a bar stool the customer side. Thus I have no knowledge of how to run such a business and am not so naive to think it is easy. To follow such a course of action would no doubt see me lose the bar and all my limited wealth because I would not have a clue what I was doing and it would serve me right for presuming I could run a business with no skill or experience in such an endeavour. I'm sure you know the Thai phrase "Som Nam nar"

Have a good day.

S

Nice final comment, you have a sharpe wit. I spend my time on the listing side and let buyers/renters come to us, although I am spending few hours today with a couple looking at some places. Thanks for your concern though, business is fine. It's not that I spend much time on this forum but since you are obviously unaware I will enlighten you. If anyone make a post on a thread that I have commented on, I get an email. In this modern age of technology this will come to my BlackBerry or ipad from which I will make a response from where ever I am, or whatever I am doing. For example I am currently in a "meeting " from the smallest room in my house, which seems appropriate on my BlackBerry. So I don't really spend that much time looking at the forum, just of late responding to you.

SDM

Namkanman, I think we are all a bit bored by this now. Your posts are so full of contradictions both within the posts themselves and in relation to your others that I really do not have the time or inclination to keep pointing this out, you obviously have a lot of time on your hands. Every comment I have made is based on actual experience or knowledge. The majority of comments you have made are based on opinion and rumour. Sufficed to say you are entitled your opinion. Enjoy Phuket, I'm sure you have lots to do, and heres to the next 4000 posts. Have a good day.

SDM

I have had problems before with Bangkok Air and I'm afraid I have found them unmovable. In fairness their website does say that the credit card holder must travel and bring the card.

S

“The "conflict of interest" mentioned is on this forum. “ NKM

Again, there would only be a conflict of interest if I was actively engaged in selling a business to someone on this thread, while being retained by the seller to sell to that person whilst at the same time giving the impression I was free to give impartial advice to the buyer, also a member of this thread.

Since I am not involved in any of the above there is no conflict of interest. The only thing you could accuse me is, in your opinion, of painting a rosier picture than is true. I have been a London agent for the best part of 25 years and believe me I know what a conflict of interest is. SDM

If you post that you know a couple of bar owners "who do very nicely indeed" - you are promoting the ownership of a bar as a profitable business, which you just happen to be an agent selling them, and everyone here knows here that's BS.

Let me say here, and correct me if I am wrong, that you would seem to have no direct relationship or experience with the bar business other than being a customer. That being the case, if I am wrong please correct me, all of your observations are just that, observations enhanced by rumour. I on the other hand because I am involved professionally actually do have some insight into turnover and profitability. The bar owners I have referred to are extremely good at what they do, they are doing very nicely, and their bars are most definitely not for sale. However this is clearly not a blanket statement that covers every bar in Phuket.

I think it’s fair and obvious to point out that many bars are not doing well, but this is normal in business, some do well and others not so well. However, in my opinion, this is more down to bar owners that have had a few nice holidays here, decided they would “ live the dream” by acquiring a bar which then fails. In my experience, this is usually down to the fact that the new bar owner has never owned a bar and has not a clue how to run it. The “barstool” experts think it is easy, which it is not. They would be no more successful buying a coffee shop, assuming they are not already baristas.

Also, I would like to point out that I have been extremely polite in all my response to you, I have not made flippant remarks such as when I mentioned that if you would have read my profile you would have known what I do professionally, and your response was “ why would I care”. I note that since then you have looked. So I would like to make this clear, I do not BS, I have no reason to BS. Even though I live in Thailand I come from a rigorously regulated property market, where I still own a successful agency, and such things are dealt very harshly by the authorities. Anyone who knows me will say I tell things the way they are, and then I leave it to the other person to make their mind up. So, please, if you want to continue this discussion, let’s stick to fact and lets keep our language cleanIn you opinion, KB, give me a rough percentage of the profitable bars as compared to the non-profitable bars. . SDM

The bars are struggling. Hence, the "conflict of interest" in your posts. NKM

I have already covered this, but if you amend your statement to “ some bars are struggling but others are clearly not” I would agree with you. SDM

I've never dealt with you on a professional basis - nor am I likely to, but, your posts talking up land/business ownership on this forum, plus hte fact you sell them, is a conflict of interest, in regards to your comments on this forum.

Well that is your choice and I am quite happy with that. However, as I have said before, as an agent I represent the seller; I do not represent the buyer. Unless of course the buyer retains me and in that case I am working for the buyer, but this rarely happens. But I can never represent both, because that would be a conflict of interest. My job is to present that which we are selling in the best light, by way of details etc, but the actual decision and burden of satisfaction, must be with the buyer. You clearly consider Thailand to be a corrupt country where nothing anyone says can be trusted. However, as I have mentioned, I am British and have worked in Central London for most of my career. Hopefully you do not consider Great Britain as a corrupt country but even there we have a maxim used in legal and property circles, and that is “ Buyer Beware”, which basically means that it is up to a buyer to make his own investigation and either satisfy himself of whether a purchase is acceptable or not. The same applies here and everywhere else in the World. SDM

It's nothing personal - it's you job to BS and sell. NKM

I really don’t know what uyou are used to, but BS is not essential in sales. SDM

How's your Russian and Chinese language lessons going? NKM

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. SDM

Where did you want to live?

S

As an agent myself I agree with your assessment, and really it is all a matter of how you view risk. If you want to buy a property to have in the same way we would in the West and to be able to pass this on when you die, and have absolutely no worries about your ownership, I would suggest you buy a condominium on a Foreign Freehold Title. You don't have to wait until the building has all been sold, it will have been certificated before you buy and the allocation set. You will however usually pay more for a Foreign Freehold condo in the same building when compared with an identical leasehold property. Usually between 500,000 and 1MB depending on the size and value.

Stephen

NKM

Thank you for your response, but there is nothing new there really. I didn't read that in the media, but if it was reported I'm sure it is true.

I get the feeling that we are going round and round here and thus have nothing new to add.

Apart from to the chap who agreed with you that I have a conflict of interest. I would only have a conflict of interest if I was actively engaged in the sale, or attempting to sell a bar to someone reading this thread. I am not, so clearly no conflict exists. Even if I was actively engaged in selling or attempting to sell to someone here, I would be working for the seller as an agent and make no secret of that. There is only a conflict of interest if I am in some way also working for a buyer, this is why it is termed a conflict of interests, ie representing both sides in a transaction.

In fact I have just checked my company stock and we only have listed one bar from a few days ago. Having said that it is a four storey building that just happens to have a bar on the ground floor, but it could be used for any commercial purpose.

Clearly no conflict of interest.

Have a nice day everyone.

SDM

Morning NKM

I had a couple of observations I wanted to ask you about.

“ In recent history, there have been cases of bars drugging customers, getting the guy back home, and stealing from him.” NKM

I must admit that I rarely go out to bars these days, but this surprises me and I wonder how you have come to know this. Either you were directly involved as the person who was drugged, or are a friend of the person who was drugged, or were involved in some other direct way, if so, can you name the bar or bars so the rest of us might avoid them. Or is it the case that this is purely an unsubstantiated rumour, an urban myth? SDM

“ There's less chance of being ripped off this way by a freelancer. For the freelancer, no "boom" - not money.” NKM

Aren’t there other risks associated with “Freelancers” though? As I understand matters girls in bars are required to do a 90 day blood test and have a book to show Police on request. No such requirement is made of “ freelancers”. I might be wrong on this, perhaps someone with actual knowledge would confirm. SDM

“Also, buying a drink for a freelancer in a nightclub, you are actually buying a drink, not a small glass of coke or orange juice for 200 baht.” NKM

An interesting comment since I doubt the girl in either case really cares what she is drinking and since the chap as buyer of the drink is not consuming it himself, why should he care either. SDM

"would you also have a problem if the Landlord were not Thai" - if he's not Thai, he can't own the land, so why would I deal with a middleman, thus, making it more expensive for myself?” NKM

I think what you actually said was

“ I couldn't think of anything worse than enslaving one's self to a greedy Thai landlord by owning a bar.”

But now you seem to be saying that you do not have a problem with the Thai landlord, so much as a problem with a middleman, such as an agent, because this would be making it more expensive for you. Did I miss something ? Also it is worthy of note, since we are talking about Soi Eric/Freedom, that all the bar owners deal with the new Soi owner directly.

"This is reflected by the bar fine reducing from around midnight to 1am." SDM - not all bars are reducing their bar fines. They need the money. “ NKM

Perhaps so, although all the bars that I know have this policy. SDM

"but in fact I am delighted to tell you that a foreigner CAN own up to one rai of land"

“ you are correct, but it comes with strict conditions. Why would I "invest" 40 million baht in a 3rd World Country and I can't leave the land, an asset, to my children upon my death????” NKM

Unfortunately I personally myself do not have a spare 40 MB so my opinion is irrelevant. However what you actually wrote was, incorrectly intimating that a foreigner cannot own land;

“The next thing you will be saying is how a foreigner CAN own land in Thailand”. NKM

and my answer given correctly that yes a foreigner can own land here. As a point of interest we have a very similar rule in the UK, not sure about The States.

“ yes, I live on Phuket, and in Patong. I haven't lived here, full time, as long as many others on this forum, but I also highly doubt I will be leaving Thailand due to losing my life savings through becoming romantically involved with a bar girl, or buying a "business" or property, that sits on land that I can never own, in such an unstable and corrupt country. Why would I take such a risk, for little, or no reward????”

The question begs to be asked, with all the negatives points you have made, why are you here ? And why in a place like Patong with all its bars, bar girls etc that you seem to despise. Had you not considered somewhere less of a “ party town”. I don’t dispute what you say, I just wonder what has attracted the “ Ice Man” to the land of smiles and what I like to call “ Party Town.

SDM

“ I couldn't think of anything worse than enslaving one's self to a greedy Thai landlord by owning a bar.” NKM

That’s an interesting point, would you also have a problem if the Landlord were not Thai. SDM

“Indeed, and with the high bar fines now, as suggested, the bar owners are turning more to the sale of sex, rather than alcohol, to survive in business here.” NKM

In fact I understand that the high bar fines are a tool to dissuade customers from taking the bars staff away too early in the evening. This is reflected by the bar fine reducing from around midnight to 1am. If what you say is correct the fine would not reduce. SDM

The next thing you will be saying is how a foreigner CAN own land in Thailand. NKM

I note the two smiles, but in fact I am delighted to tell you that a foreigner CAN own up to one rai of land, completely legally and in their own name and on a proper title document, in certain circumstances. I will let you discover those circumstances yourself, you never know you might fit the requirements.

Do you actually live in Thailand, not really relevant, I am just curious

SDM

“So, a member's job is to sell property/businesses/leases and he's on the forum "talking up" the profitability of buying a bar and you don't think there's a conflict of interest? “ NKM

Have I talked up the profitability of buying a bar, in fact no I have not. I have just mentioned a number of people that I know who are quite happy with their bars and one who has purchased a much larger bar after having a smaller one for some fifteen years. All true and I am sure that anyone who knows the area well will know exactly who I mean.

In any event, let’s say I had offered a bar to someone here, I make no secret of the fact that I work for the seller. I do not work for the buyer or represent the buyer in any way, no agent does. I would expect and advise any buyer to demonstrate some due diligence, investigation and discovery. If they did not, well more fool them.

There would only be a “conflict of interest” if I had attempted to advise a buyer to purchase a bar, whilst working for the seller. I have not done this.

SDM

"you would have noticed that I am involved in this kind of work professionally" SDM

I can see the conflict of interest in your posts. NKM

I’m not sure how considering I haven’t offered anyone a bar here, and even if I did I would always advise they make their own investigations regarding its viability. I do not even advertise bars on TV. If you look back on what I have written it can summarised that

1. People I know professionally and personally that are bar owners are quite happy with their businesses and

2. I don’t believe everything I hear.

With that in mind I cannot really see any conflict of interest since I have neither offered advice here, nor offered any business.

Are you going to tell me buying a bar on Bangla Road is a good "investment?" NKM

You clearly have an issue with this subject for some reason, but to answer your question, I do not consider any business as a good investment on its own.

I consider an “investment” as a vehicle or commodity that can be bought into and the investor has nothing to do other than wait for the returns to come in. I would consider gold as a good investment, or certain stocks or shares. A business however needs hard work of the owner, the right location and perhaps a bit of luck to work. I would say that anyone that starts a business with little knowledge of the business is really doomed from the outset. In fact normally the first question I ask of anyone looking for any kind of business is whether they have any experience in the business they are looking to go into. The second question I have for them is if they have an exit plan if it all goes wrong.

SDM

I never mentioned the Bangkok to Chiang Mai overnight coaches.

Never seen one of those bad boys but I once did try to keep up with a night bus running between Nakornsithamarat and Phuket. I'm no stranger to speed but I really didn't have the balls to match it.

SDM

Air Asia don't care if the credit card holder is a passenger or not. I have booked tickets for " friends" many times and there has never been an issue. Just book it all online.

You will need ID number, DOB, correct name - just get her to photograph her ID card and mail it to you, all the info is on that.

SDM

PS. Just noticed I was beaten to that ! Should have read the whole thread really !