skatewash

The trouble with stories about something happening to a friend is that the friend is not around to answer questions, people don't often know what they are doing, and people sometimes give wrong information based on misunderstanding. The general principle of the 800k minimum bank balance is that it needs to be in something where the principal is not at risk and where it can be immediately withdrawn. For example, a savings account would be the perfect example. Fixed deposits or fixed term accounts can also be suitable, as the principal is not at risk and some allow money to be withdrawn immediately (often forfeiting earned interest on the amount withdrawn). I've used both successfully at Phuket Immigration. In my opinion, immigration officers like their job to be as easy as possible. If I go in with fixed deposit account where the only thing the IO has to do is look at a single page of a fixed-deposit passbook to see that 800,100 baht was deposited into the account and a year later 809,000 baht is still in the account and there is only one entry for 9,900 interest earned it is very easy to check. They have to scan about three entries to figure out my balance never dipped below 800,000 over the course of the last 12 months. Contrast this with me going in with 4 bank books each at a different bank and each passbook having 5 pages of entries. The IO is not going to be happy. There is a lot to check. It's like balancing the books for a small business or doing a sudoku puzzle, because figuring out if I ever dipped below 800k or 400k at a time when it was not allowed is anything but straightforward. I guarantee you the IO is going to be grumpy. I try not to make my IO grumpy. I'm not saying the first way is the only legal way to go and the second way isn't legal, but the first way certainly makes the IO's job easier, and the second way isn't going to earn you much good will. I accept that the IO is supposed to check certain things, that's his job, and I do the best I can consistent with my own interests to make his job as easy as possible to do.

Yes, they want their jobs to be as easy as possible. Also, they would be perfectly happy if all people used agents, they greatly prefer to deal with agents for all the reasons I'm sure you can figure out. However, if something is allowed by the rules and you know what the rules are and you know what their interpretation of the rules are and you comply with that you can almost always get approved.

What country are you from? If your country's embassy provide citizens with income verification letters, then usually immigration insists on seeing that letter. If you are from one of the countries that stopped doing the income verification letter than immigration should have accepted your bank letter showing 12 months worth of transfers.

Well, congratulations on your extension! I don't think it says this anywhere but generally it's considered good form to not be on overstay when you apply for an extension of stay. But if you are, it usually works out as you've stated (as long as it's very short duration). By law you are supposed to be fined 500 baht per day you are in overstay status, so it sounds like you were properly fined for your 3 day overstay. (Of course, overstays can turn out very differently if you are caught on overstay rather than effectively turning yourself in, such as substantial fines capped at 20,000 and possible deportation and banning if it goes on long enough.) Not sure why I feel it's necessary to say this again, but I do. ???? You can go for your extension of stay in Phuket 45 days before your permission to stay ends. If you go exactly 45 days before you will be granted an extension of stay with a new permission to stay of a year + 45 days. In other words, when applying for an extension of stay you don't lose any days from your previous extension of stay. If you go ASAP many weird things can happen, expected and unexpected, and you won't be impacted because you will have time on your side. If you go late things can happen. Anyway, good advice on Bangkok Bank. Go early and allow at least a week for the 12-month statement. Also, good idea to update passbook(s) on day of application (Bangkok Bank can do this with a balance forward transaction (b/f)) at other banks you may have to da deposit or withdrawal. You do have seven (7) calendar days grace period to do a late 90-Day Report (after your due date), without penalty when done in person. You don't have any grace days for overstay, although possibly a one day overstay may not result in a fine of 500 baht but your overstay will be noted in your passport most likely. Overstay is to be avoided, nothing good comes from it. And again, you have 45 days in Phuket to get an extension of stay done before you go on overstay. And of course, agents are accepted, one might even say welcomed with open arms by immigration, as long as you're willing to pay one.

I have never needed to show a banking transaction on the day of application for my retirement extension in Phuket. However, it sounds like it would be a good idea to do that. It can't hurt and if they do ask for it you already have it. My particular bank branch won't produce my standard letter and 12-month bank statement while I wait but they prefer to do it overnight and I come back the next morning pick it up, then head to Phuket Immigration. I can certainly do a transaction while I'm at the bank and update my passbook before going to immigration. Not a bad idea. Actually cashiers at Bangkok Bank (maybe even the passbook updating machine, too) can cause a balance forward (b/f) transaction to be printed on your passbook. It's exactly what it sounds like, just prints out your current balance on dated today. Maybe other banks can do this too. Or you can do a deposit or withdrawal and then update the passbook. All these things are rather simple to do and if they make the immigration officer more confident that I've complied with the requirements I don't have a problem doing it, whether it's a formal requirement or not.

Just to add that on the final page you want the "The Next Appointment PRINT" option.

It is 65,000 baht per month transferred internationally into your Thai bank account. Or it is 800k minimum balance 2 months before you apply and 3 months after you apply, 400k minimum balance required for the rest of the year. This last has been in effect for about 2 years. The US, UK, and Australia embassies unilaterally decided to stop issuing embassy income letters so citizens of those countries must do monthly transfers of minimum 65,000 baht in to their Thai banks every month. You need two letters from your bank: 1) establishing that you own the account in your name only and the balance as of the letter date. 2) 12 month bank statement stamped/signed by bank showing all transactions (for lump sum bank balance method) or showing 12 monthly transfers of minimum 65,000 baht from overseas (for the income method). If you are from one of the countries still allowing embassy letters you could get a letter indicating you meet the 65,000/month minimum income and that would be sufficient.

Foreign Exchange Rates.pdf

I can view the site and am using a US connection on my VPN. Maybe the problem was transient. Try again.

A common sense attitude toward the guarantee of FTT labeling. There's a qualitative difference between a 0.5% failure rate and a 40% failure rate. The first is serviceable. When there is a problem with a month's transfer you can do the extra work to get the documentation necessary to prove to immigration it was internationally sourced. But obviously if the failure rate is substantially higher than that Wise if effectively not an option for meeting immigration requirements for the monthly deposit method. Obviously, there are a small niche group of Wise customers who have this particular requirement, but it does raise the question as to why Wise would neglect such customers who they already have (and ones who use the service every month) yet are willing to spend money on advertising trying to get new customers. It's cheaper to keep the bird in your hand happy than it is to pursue the bird in the bush.

Apparently the UK does allow mix and match vaccines to be considered fully vaccinated but they must be vaccines on the approved list. So Sinovac --> AstraZeneca --> Pfizer or Moderna would qualify (based on the AZ and Pfizer/Moderna jabs): https://www.gov.uk/guidance/countries-with-approved-covid-19-vaccination-programmes-and-proof-of-vaccination

Have you checked that Sinovac --> AstraZeneca --> Moderna (or Pfizer) meets UK requirements for full vaccination. The UK recognizes mix and match, or do they insist on 2 jabs of the same or 1 of J&J? Two jabs of AZ would satisfy the UK requirements (now that the UK recognizes AZ made and administered in Thailand.

A very good description of how it worked for the last couple years up until about October 6, at which point people (who made their Wise transactions exactly as you stated) found that their transfers did not get coded as FTT in their Bangkok Bank accounts. Wise has been apprised of the situation but no "fix" has been announced. Watch your Wise transfers closely to see that they continue to be marked FTT. By the way, because your transfer was marked correctly as FTT doesn't mean the problem is fixed. The problem is that not ALL transfers (made in the correct way) are being marked FTT, even though SOME are. The problem can't be considered fixed until we see no reports of transfers being made without the FTT label (again, for the ones made in the correct way).

American customers opening accounts are as welcome at foreign banks as emails in your inbox from Nigerian princes, although perhaps for different reasons. An American expat in Thailand doesn't look like a desirable customer to Thai banks because though we may not wish to do so we bring substantial "baggage" to the table. Having American customers means the bank has to abide by US regulations, send information to the IRS among other things, and exposes the bank to Draconian penalties should anything go wrong. So there's very little upside and a potentially big downside to opening an account for an American expat. Some branches will do it though, especially if they already have American customers (in for a penny, in for a pound), if they are big branches and have English-speaking staff. You may have to try a few branches before you have success. Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank are two of the easiest banks at which to open accounts, I believe. Finally, in the line of incentives. It shouldn't be necessary, but if you give a wavering bank employee the opportunity to earn a little commission it can sometimes work. Bangkok Bank actually has a decent little accident insurance policy that covers motorcycles. I purchase it every year even though I don't have to, PA 1st Smart is the name. Unfortunately, I can vouch for the fact that they pay out very well. ???? : https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/My-Family-and-Me/Bancassurance/BKI/PA-1st/PA-1st-Smart

Generally a SWIFT transfer would guarantee you an FTT coding at Bangkok Bank. The only circumstances I can think of that may cause problems is if your source bank isn't able to SWIFT directly with Bangkok Bank and has to use an intermediary bank(s) to route the money to Bangkok Bank. I don't think that happens often at all as Bangkok Bank is a large bank and many other banks are able to SWIFT directly to Bangkok Bank.

Lots of people manage to follow the rules and get their extensions of stay approved at Phuket Immigration every day they're open. Here's hoping you're one of them. And if you're not you could always use an agent.

I do almost everything myself but I have to draw the line somewhere and for me that line is photocopies and photos. I don't do copies and photos, it's a mug's game. I don't dance to that tune. I have a photocopiest and photologist on retainer. Have you ever tried to use one of those copy machines all by yourself? I put a page in one time and it came out completely upside down! Very confusing and quite stressful. It's almost impossible to make your own copies. I could tell you stories of people trying to make their own copies that would curl your hair. They were so frustrated! I didn't move to Phuket to experience this kind of humiliation. I just let my photocopiest and photologist handle things. For me, it's money well-spent. ????

Or, you could do it yourself without an agent and pick up your extension and passport the next day for 1,900 baht. Personally, I would find the operation to remove 22,000 baht from my wallet to be very stressful and wouldn't want to attempt major surgery like that without ample anesthesia.

I'm referring to people who have Bangkok Bank accounts that they are transferring to and that they have correctly selected the purpose of "long term stay in Thailand." In other words, those that have done what used to "guarantee" that they would receive the FTT designation. If people are still reporting unsuccessful FTT transfers in that category of transferrers the problem remains. Or if the failure rate of getting a transfer marked FTT is high enough above 0% using Wise, then Wise won't be meeting the needs of some of its existing customers to the point that alternatives will have to used. Customers using Wise for their extensions of stay will be as unforgiving of Wise with these slip-ups as Thai immigration is of the applicants. I hope it's fixed. I am just cautioning against irrational exuberance that the problem is solved from the fact that some people are getting FTT marked transfers. Even when the system was broken some people continued to get FTT marked transfers. The system will appear to be fixed when there are no fresh reports of unsuccessful FTT transfers (for which the sender has done everything correctly).

You can't possibly know that Thai Immigration would have rejected any embassy income letters. Thai Immigration could have easily decided to continue to accept the immigration letters, despite having reservations about how they were being verified. The three embassies decided not to see if that would happen and unilaterally stopped issuing the letters.

No. Successful FTT transfers prove nothing (other than the fact that FTT transactions can occur which no one doubts). The only proof of the problem being fixed is the absence of unsuccessful FTT transfers. FTT transfers can be successful because the mechanism is working again OR because if the Wise algorithm chose Bangkok Bank for its own business purposes (which would very likely result in a successful FTT-labeled transaction).

Of course, they could have simply continued to issue them, explain the reasons they were not able to verify them, and wait to see if Thai Immigration would in fact have rejected any of them. Instead the course they took was to stop issuing them unilaterally.

It's good that your transfer was made with the correct labeling. However, that shouldn't make you or anyone else feel good about what's going with Wise, and it probably doesn't. Even if tagging banks, selecting the "long term stay in Thailand" purpose didn't exist we would still expect a certain number of transactions to show up with FTT markings because Bangkok Bank is one of Wise's partner banks in Thailand. When Wise's algorithm selects which partner bank to use for a particular transfer, in the event it picks Bangkok Bank there's a very good chance your transfer will show up with the FTT marking. But when Wise's algorithm selects another Wise partner bank in Thailand there's a very good chance it will show up as a domestic transfer. The mechanism that Wise (at the time TransferWise) put in place to ensure that the first rather than the second happens doesn't seem to be working. So reports of successful FTT transfers don't really indicate anything about whether the problem has been fixed or persists, because we don't know whether Wise selected Bangkok Bank for you because it wanted to for its own business reasons or because it followed your instructions to transfer for the purpose of "long term stay in Thailand."

Can you point to a single affidavit from an embassy that was rejected by Thai Immigration?

I'm not sure how I could state this more clearly: You need two documents from your bank: 1) a standard bank letter identifying you as owner of the account (in your name only), and the balance as of the date of the letter 2) Twelve (12) month signed/stamped bank statement. And by the way, the bank statement must cover the entire 12 month period from your last extension application. (I know this is way too much information for some, but here goes anyway: the REASON for wanting a bank statement that covers 12 months after your last extension application is that it is the best way for the immigration officer to confirm that you have complied with the regulations you signed up for when you applied for a retirement extension last year and for the extension you are applying for this year. Namely: 800k minimum balance for two months before application and three months after the application, and for the rest of the year maintain a minimum balance of 400k. Copies of a bank book are problematic because of something called Consolidated Transactions which are entries made when there have been many transactions made without your passbook being updated. A Consolidated Transaction entry shows the NET effect on the balance. It is entirely possible that during the period covered by the Consolidated Transaction your balance went below the required minimum, there's no way of knowing this. This is why immigration officers want to see a signed/stamped bank statement for a 12 month period because bank statements don't contain Consolidated Transactions. Looking at a 12 month bank statement one can determine whether the applicant complied with the requirements of their extension or not.) It's known that Bangkok Bank cannot usually provide a 12-month bank statement and that they only maintain transaction records for a customer's last six months of transactions at most branch banks. So you need to request it (at least) a week before you plan to go for your extension because time is needed to receive your statement from Bangkok Headquarters. Other banks don't seem to have this problem. For example, my Krungsri Bank seems to be able to produce a 12-month bank statement for me that I can pick up the next day. Which is why, in Phuket at least, you can go to immigration to apply for your new retirement extension 45 days before your permission to stay expires. Go as early as possible and you have time to handle any expected and unexpected problems that may develop. Time will not be your enemy, it will be on your side. You will be unable to avoid losing money by paying an agent because you will be unable to find a bank anywhere in the world that is paying more than 3.74% APR for a savings account. That's not my opinion, it's just an exercise in mathematics. The only way you could attempt to avoid losing money by paying an agent is if you invested in something that is not insured, subject to market fluctuation, and does not guarantee the return of principle. The money you pay to an agent is gone, it's not coming back for certain. An investment outside of a bank savings account is subject to risk and uncertainty by definition. That's why you get promised a higher return, otherwise no one would accept the higher risk. The return you do get is not a certainty. You can end up with a very nice return. You can also end up with a zero balance.