Jay Sata
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Posts posted by Jay Sata
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I see on another site that the Surinder Singh route has other advantages over directly applying for a UK Visa.
Ireland usually process EU spouse visa applications within a month compared to the UK processing time , which can take up to 6 months and is liable to be refused.
Other advantages are the ability to claim benefits on the return to the UK , access to the NHS free of charge and obtain a student loan for your spouse.
The UK visa route limits access to welfare for 5 years for both spouses.
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Interesting story in todays UK Guardian regarding a protest in London to highlight the issues over the £18600 threshold.
The newspaper claims immigration laws leave an estimated 33,000 people unable to remain with spouses in Britain as they do not earn enough to satisfy visa requirement
Many in Thursdays protest who had successfully managed to settle in the UK said they had used a legal technicality known as the Surinder Singh route after the landmark case.
It paved the way for Britons to work abroad in another European Economic Area country before bringing a non-European spouse to the UK, so EEA law on spouses, which is more generous, can take precedent.
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I lived and worked in Singapore for a year not long ago.
The money was great but sadly living in Singapore loses its lustre very quickly unless you like shopping centres!
The worst thing I found was lining up for taxis that gets very old very quickly.
It also rains a lot and the lack of space, apartment living etc are just too much to bear.
There has to be better options than Singers.
I agree. It is a bit like living in Perth Western Australia.
Great climate...clean city..no crime..fantastic beaches..and after a year you feel like being on the moon.
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Just to clear up one point I am familiar with the Surinder Singh route and the rules that govern it which have been proved via the courts to be perfectly legal.
I raised this topic simply because it appears this company has engineered a scheme that will generate good income by manipulating the rules.
They sort out employment,accomodation and all the paperwork.
It appears to be a carousel where what you pay in over the three months becomes your income on paper?
It also absolves an applicant from any language tests?
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Makes no difference who the scheme is aimed at. It only works if one partner is British and one is non-EU!
It is a scheme with the sole purpose of by-passing normal settlement rules and therefore likely to be fraudulent (In my non-qualified opinion!).
It certainly seems so. One legal point that emerges is that this is an scheme where a third party,in this case the operators of the visa service,are in control and organise housing and employment.
If you read their terms and conditions the individual has to comply with rules on their accomodation and is not free to make their own arrangments.
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This website is not difficult to find!
It indicates that it is accredited to the Law Society (immigration & Asylum) £5000 or £6000 depending on the service you want!
I cannot see this as anything other than a solicitor using the letter of the law and not the spirit. He gets a tidy sum up front! £1000 up front, £750 when the Irish visa is approved, £1750 when accommodation is provided, £1500 when employment starts and a tiny £500 on arrival with spouse in the UK.
If at any time anything is refused they have done very well out of it and if the final EEA Family permit is refused the applicant has lost £4500 at least! Guess who is guaranteed to have a smile on his face at all times?
The Law Society should control these clowns!!
Agreed.
Reading between the lines the accomodation etc is contrived.
The scheme seems to be aimed at a certain sector of the community and not those with Thai spouses.
However this abuse could lead to further tightening of the rules or time scale in which someone needs to establish a life in an EU country prior to obtaining entry to the UK.
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The boredom would get to me quickly in Singapore.
Nice,clean,ordered and safe but too small.
I find a week is about the most I can cope with.
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It appears he is.
The firm was only registered in March 2015 and has one director. The website claims it operates under the supervision of Saeeda Rashid but does not show any licensing details.<snip>
Anyone who acts as an immigration advisor in the UK must either be registered with the OISC or a member of a professional legal body such as the Law Society of England and Wales.
As I understand it, any OISC registered advisor should say such on their website and display the OISC logo.
You can also see if the company is on the register of advisors; Mr. Rashid isn't.
But if he's a solicitor and so a member of the Law Society, or other professional legal body, he doesn't need to be.
I take it you have seen the website?
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The problem is that a company set up like this is driving a horse and cart through what is a genuine legal right.
I am sure some of you have had this google advert appear over the last week.
As I understand it you need to do a lot more than just rent a house in Ireland and start self employment.
You need to genuinely prove you have moved the centre of your life to another EU country?
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Sorry I don't know when the rules changed. The last time I know of someone using the visitor visa and converting to LTR because of marriage was mid 2001.Thank you, I was unaware of that; but it is certainly not possible now. Just for information and to satisfy my curiosity, any idea when the rules changed?
Indeed, back then a spouse settlement visa was valid for 12 months after which one applied for ILR; and the ILR application was free.
Rather, as explained to me by an ECO at the Bangkok embassy when my wife and step daughter applied for settlement in November 2000 (you could talk to them in those days), the fee for ILR was included in the fee for the initial visa.
But when LTR fees were introduced by Blair the initial visa fee was not reduced!
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With respect, the title of this topic is a bit misleading.
The Surinder Singh route is not a backdoor method of obtaining a spouse visa; it is a right enjoyed by any EEA national who has been living in another EEA state with his/her non EEA national family members whilst exercising an economic treaty right and now wishes to return to his home state with his/her family.
It is perfectly legal.
What may be dubious is the service offered by this agency.
There is, of course, nothing illegal about one company acting as an accommodation agency, an employment agency and a visa agency; at least in the UK, I don't know about Ireland.
However, whilst I don't know if in the UK accommodation and employment agencies need to be registered with a regulatory body, visa agencies do.
Anyone who acts as an immigration advisor in the UK must either be registered with the OISC or a member of a professional legal body such as the Law Society of England and Wales.
Whether a similar regulatory regime exists in Ireland, I don't know but the OP suggests this company is in the UK.
So the first question is whether or not this company is so registered.
Secondly, as mentioned earlier by other posters, following the Surinder Singh route is not as straightforward as some think; conditions have to be met.
From Free Movement
The most important change since Surinder Singh itself is the new case of O and B v The Netherlands Case C-456/12, handed down by the Grand Chamber of the Court of the European Union on 12 March 2014. Without much mentioning Surinder Singh, the judgment completely re-writes the legal basis of the earlier case and sets out important and binding new guidance.......
Key points;
1. A residence period of at least three months is required (para 54)
2. Weekend visits and holidays do not count as residence for this purpose (para 59)
3. Any citizen of the Union can potentially benefit from this right, not just workers and the self employed (references to Article 7 of Citizens Directive 2004/38 , e.g. para 56, and to Article 21 of the TFEU, e.g. para 54)
4. During the period of residence family life must have been created or strengthened (para 51)
5. Abuse is impermissible (para 58)
The UK has yet to implement point 3 and still insist that the EEA national has been working in the other EEA state.
But I think that the service offered by this company would be viewed as abuse of the system and so any applications from their clients be refused under point 5.
For the UKVI guidance, see Apply for an EEA family permit; 6. Surinder Singh.
The firm was only registered in March 2015 and has one director. The website claims it operates under the supervision of Saeeda Rashid but does not show any licensing details.
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When I got my wifes visa to live there she had a 2 year visa. Later I wrote to the Home Office and told them to put in a full residency visa which they did.
If the rule is now a job paying 19,000 or more a year that is not a high paying job, it is about 1,600 month before taxes.
A friend of mine has, like me, a thai wife. He took them over for a holiday on a 6 month visa and after a lot of discussion converted it upwards. I can understand if you are asking from day 1 for a residence visa. That is the hard way of doing things. Try for a 2 year visa as the spouse of a British national and see what they say.
The rules changed w.e.f. 9th July 2012. Prior to that spouse settlement visas were valid for 27 months and after living in the UK for 24 months one applied for Indefinite Leave to Remain.
Now they are valid for 33 months and after living in the UK for at least 30 months one applies for Further Leave to Remain. This is valid for 30 months and at the end of that one applies for ILR. Making a minimum of 5 years residence in total to obtain ILR.
Also, prior to 9th July 2012 the financial requirement was that the immigrant spouse must be supported without recourse to public funds. There was no fixed minimum income requirement, but case law suggested that it should be the same as the income support level for a British family of the same size, currently £114.85 p.w. (£5972.20 p.a.) for a couple both over 18. This was net income, after housing costs, debt repayments etc..
The changes which came into effect on 9th July 2012 introduced the financial requirement as we know it today; a minimum income of £18,600 p.a.
One of the absurd aspects being it is gross income and takes no account of any financial commitments the sponsor may have. So a sponsor who earns £18,600 p.a. but has a mortgage and other debt repayments of £10,000 p.a. meets the requirement. A sponsor who earns £18,599 p.a., has paid off his mortgage and has no other debts etc. doesn't!
The financial requirement can instead be met by cash savings, for a spouse a minimum of £62,500; or a combination of income and cash savings.
The minimum figures are higher if children are applying as well; but not if those children are British, whether dual nationals or not, and therefore do not need a visa or leave to remain to enter or live in the UK.
I have no idea how your friend managed to convert his wife's visit visa into settlement whilst in the UK. For as long as I have taken an interest in UK immigration, well over 10 years, this has been impossible. If a visitor wishes to apply for UK settlement they have to return to their country of residence and apply there.
Perhaps you can ask your friend how he managed it? I'm sure there are members here who would like to do the same.
It was possible for a spouse to enter the UK on a C six month visitor visa in the year 2000 and apply for leave to remain.
This was usually for one year after which you could apply for ILR.
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This visa company seems to be pitching at the Indian and Pakistani community and not those wanting to bring a Thai spouse to the UK.
Reading between the lines they arrange 'self employment' in Dublin and they supply documentation to back it up.
All run from a room above a shop in Rochdale via a limited company.
More here from their site.
We also:
Provide employment for the British Citizen in the EEA state for the period of up to 3 months to comply with regulation 9 or
Help you set up a business providing services in the EEA state to comply with regulation 9 as self-employed.
£5999 Note: This price includes the rent in the EEA state until your return.
Total cost £7255 with a reminder this could increase by 50%
They claim to put the spouse up in private rented accomodation.
I have emailed the site address to a couple of people who have pm'd me but with my opinion it is a scam.
Not going to put the site address up here as it may breach forum rules.
I am aware of the rules regarding Surinder Singh but it appears this scheme is engineered to get around the rules. see below.
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Paying a price for queue jumping.Certainly in BKK, same day turn around 3000 baht. (Only for applications in he morning)
2 day - 2000 baht
3 days - 1000 baht
What are you writing about?Renewing a Thai passport in Thailand is a piece of cake.
Can be done down the local passport office.
Done while you wait.
Not by chance mixing with getting an ID card?
Definitely no "done while you wait" at the local offices!
7 day delivery by snail mail is the norm.
Data sent electronically to Bangkok, passport sent from there.
Passports are produced in Bangkok only.
My mistake. Last time done in Bangkok using the premium same day service.
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I would have thought a pattern will emerge to be quickly spotted by an entry clearance officer.
Why Dublin?
Reading between the lines the package appears to be paid employment funded by the applicant.
They even suggest being self employed and having a holiday while waiting for the three months to elapse.
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Why are you bringing old reel to reel machines over?
Surely there is not much demand for this outdated method of recording?
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I have an advert for a spouse visa scheme using Ireland constantly popping up on my screen over the last few days. I am not going to give their website details but the Rochdale limited company appear to offer a surefire way of getting a spouse to the UK.
Surely this cannot be legal?
Here is their claim.
Regulation 9 of the EEA Immigration Regulations 2006 allow British citizens who have worked and lived in another EU country to return to the UK with their spouse and children. This is also known as the Surinder Singh route.
We obtain a visa for your spouse in Ireland, the only documents you need are your passports and marriage certificate..Once your spouse has their visa (usually within a month) , we arrange accommodation and employment for you, so everything is ready when your arrive in Ireland together. We take care of all the documentation and applications and visas so you and your spouse can enjoy your holiday in Ireland together.
What about my accommodation?
We place you in private accommodation, suitable for you, nearby Dublin or if you have any preferences let us know. The cost of rent is included in the package.
What about my employment?
One of the conditions to benefit from the Surinder Singh route is employment or self employment in the EU country. Paid employment is provided in our package, so theres no need to spend months submitting your CV and searching on job sites. If you prefer to work from home as self employed, we can set you up with a website and online business so you can spend time with your spouse and explore Ireland.
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As I pointed out earlier the shortage of training places for UK young people needs to be addressed and this will not be achieved while employers can access nurses,doctors etc from overseas.
Raising Tier 2 salary levels will stop employers exploiting cheap foreign labour instead of offering more training places.
In the past every UK hospital employed student nurses and they were trained on the job.
David Cameron has a strategy to redress the balance in favour of more training places available in the UK.
today (Wednesday 10 June), the PM confirmed that the Home Secretary has written to the Migration Advisory Committee asking it to advise on reducing work migration from outside the EU, while making sure Britain is open to the best talent that will help our country succeed.
The MAC commission, which will examine how the Tier 2 (Skilled Work) visa system functions, follows the first meeting of the Prime Ministers newly-formed Immigration Taskforce, which has been tasked with reducing net migration and focuses on the domestic measures that the government can take to achieve this.
Prime Minister David Cameron said:
This government is on the side of working people: in the past, it has been too easy for businesses to recruit from overseas, undermining those who want to work hard and do the right thing. As part of our one-nation approach, pushed forward by my Immigration Taskforce, we have asked the Migration Advisory Committee to advise on what more can be done to reduce levels of work migration from outside the EU.
In considering how to significantly reduce non-EEA economic migration, the MAC will advise the government by the end of the year on:
restricting work visas to genuine skills shortages and highly specialist experts
putting a time limit on how long a sector can claim to have a skills shortage
a new skills levy on Tier 2 visas to boost funding to UK apprenticeships
raising salary thresholds to stop businesses using foreign workers to undercut wages
Source https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-announces-migration-advisory-committee
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Problem solved.
Have a nice time.
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I only provided proof of my son's adress in Thailand (Tabien baan details) and the Liverpool overseas team requested proof of my adress in the UK...this ended up delaying my son's passport details by a couple of months ( took 6 months in the end)! Doesn't do any harm to submit some family photo's as part of the application too.. Liverpool requested these off me to..
After submitting our son's passport application i returned to the UK....I was then required to send the additional information to my wife in Khon Kaen who had to make a 2 day trip( with our child) to submit the information..
Cheers...
A friend of mine also living by co incidence in Khon Kaen had an easy ride and the passport was dealt with by a team in Hong Kong. They were sharp enough to discover he had lied on a passport renewal 25 years ago where he had lopped a couple of years of his age . However the passport was completed with no hassle.
I suspect you have complicated the issue by being in the UK for the application.
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Sotonfarang...you have no problem.If they leave Thailand on their British passports then they will have problems with Thai immigration due to there not being any entry stamps in their British passports.
Checking in with the airline using their British passports should not present a problem; unless Japan requires British passport holders to have a visa; which I don't know. If so, then they would need to get the appropriate visas in their British passports or the airline will refuse to carry them.
Do Thais need a visa for Japan? Again, I don't know.
Can't they renew their Thai passports before the trip?
British passport holders do not need a visa for Japan assuing normal tourist and sightseeing or visiting friends.
see
http://www.uk.emb-japan.go.jp/en/visa/temporary.html
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UK and Irish passport holders are NOT required to obtain a visa if they wish to enter Japan for the purpose of journey described above for a period of 6 months or less. (Note 1, 2)"
As our little friend Kamornwit has discovered certain items in the luggage will cause problems.
Your situation is simple. Check in at Bangkok using UK passports with airline. Clear immigration with your wife on her Thai passport and then she will show her UK passport prior to boarding.
There is no problem having two passports and dual nationality. Immigration officers see this every day and it is routine.
The regular posts I read here make me smile. There is no need to hide passports!
With four months left on your family Thai passports I cannot see a problem.
You can all return to Thailand on either UK or Thai passports.
Bon Voyage
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Renewing a Thai passport in Thailand is a piece of cake.
Can be done down the local passport office.
Done while you wait.
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The answer to that question is simple.
That is the minimum income required to get a Tier 2 visa in the first place (unless the occupation is one of those listed where a lower salary is acceptable).https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/eligibility
According to this, a salary of 20,800 £ pa should do (less for an unregistered nurse)
If the holder wants to extend it beyond 6 years then they need an income over £35,000 p.a. unless exempt, which nurses currently are not.
The simple answer is; ask the government. But which category are you talking about? All Tier 2 applicants need a sponsor.Why are limits set higher for immigrants without an official sponsorship?
If we want nurses we should train them not import them. The higher limit is to keep key people like doctors.
The tax credit system ,engineered by Blair and Brown,has cost the country a fortune while keeping wages low.
Big companies such as McDonalds or Amazon exploit low paid workers and tax manipulation.
Tier 2 is not a back door for cheap labour.
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Actually I think it was Natalie Bennett (Green Party) who mentioned the scandal of Brits being unable to bring their spouses to settle in the UK because of the financial requirements. As I recall she was the only participant in the debates to mention this (she did it twice in 2 live TV debates) although I don't recall her giving a figure of 19000 Brits. As far as I'm aware none of the participants mentioned it and no one picked up on Natalie's comments.
It was because she was the only one to talk about this I actually voted for her party.
She is an Aussie with a weird agenda. Perhaps you should ask her why it is so hard for Brits to enter the land of her birth.
I would not trust her figures and the electorate agreed. Apart from the wealthy millionaire left wing voters in Brighton no one has elected a Green MP.
Protest over £18,600 minimum income rule to bring foreign spouses to UK
in Visas and migration to other countries
Posted · Edited by Jay Sata