MrSlatersParrot

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand.

Absolutely right

"Thaksin aided his wife to purchase government land at a reduced rate of 1/3 in violation of the law prohibiting political leaders from engaging in business dealings with the government. Thaksin was sentenced to two years but fled the country and never served his sentence."

Again this lawyer repeats PAD propoganda that is completely untrue.

The land was not sold for 1/3 of it's value.

There was a public auction.

There were 3 approved bids.

Podjaman outbid Land and House to acquire the land.

The FIDC and the bank of thailand had no objection in selling the land to her.

The issue taken up by the PAD and through the ASC was that she was married to the PM and that in their view the land was state owned and no state official could buy it.

But then

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand

"while prime minister, Thaksin sold his stake in telecoms giant Shin Corp to Temasek, evading taxes worth $16.3 million."

Apologies if this has already been covered.

I don't recall how much thaksin sold his stake in shin corp but let's say it was 1.6 billion dollars (that's what was taken from him by the un-biased court)

1.6 billion = 1600 million divided by 16 million

He evaded 1% tax.

I think CGT is 2.5% in thailand on house sales. So are former landlord told us and i have to pay 28% cgt on sale of my own property!

Dead man walking

This whole complicated protest situation isn't helped by some of the reporting.

In the other newspaper today the police are quoted as saying that grenades were thrown by someone mingling with the crowd and not from height.

However the BBC's Johnathan ' Dick ' Head quotes the police as saying the grenade thrower was one of the protesters ' own ' which completely changes the story.

Which of these reports is most accurate is beyond me and it's not the first time the authorities have made different statements to the media so did the other newspaper ignore a vital point or did Head add something in ? Just because someone is in a crowd doesn't have to mean they are a supporter as it's easy to mingle unless you are dressed completely in red and carrying a placard saying " I support the government ".

It suits Suthep to accuse the government and / or their supporters of responsibility whereas it suits others, many on this forum, to believe it's deliberate self-inflicted injury to increase sympathy and support.

Personally i would settle for the truth warts and all in order to get my head around what's really happening.

Jonathan Head is well known as a reporter who is not independently and impartially reporting the news, as he should. This guy is on Thaksin's side, he is not a reporter he is propagandist. He associates exclusively with Thaksin's supporters and mocks those who propose alternative views to the ruling Government's. We all saw how this creature behaved during 2010.

Prove please!

And again: voices in ones head do not count as prove!

To be fair to Jonathan Head, he has admitted that he finds the Thai political situation too complicated to understand(as per yesterdays TVF thread). It has long been evident from his reports that he has no clue as to the aims of the key players in Thai politics, and has clearly fallen under the spell of the expensive propaganda campaign carried out by the Shinawats.

I have no problem as regards articles by the propagandist and relaying the sweet pillow talk of his temporary bed fellows, but to see UK taxpayers money used to buy this drivel is somewhat galling.

I take your point and as Head has been reporting on Thailand for quite sometime has he convinced his boss he's on top of the subject, has good local contacts etc. ?

His admission he doesn't fully understand might result in a call from the boss with a request to explain although saying it was a general comment may do it..

I'm sure many BBC World reporters would welcome a tour of duty in Bkk yet Head has been here for a long time and has never been rotated as far as I know so his boss must, for whatever reason, think he's doing a good job.

You know nothing

Jonathan head had 2 LM charges laid against him by your yellow friends so had to be re-assigned.

To Ankara actually. 2 years was it?

He reported for the BBC on egypt and the region around Turkey.

Nobody there accused him of being biased or Thaksin's employee!

You're floundering around in your prejudices.

Here we go again, hasn't Suthep had enough of murdering his own people for some cheap publicity?

This post is a perfect example of what you get when you combine ignorance, stupidity and an agenda to vilify someone.

Hope the guard makes a quick recovery and the coward who did this gets his just deserts.

The problem is that we do NOT know who shot him. Consider:

Violence would be counterproductive for the government. Any violent attacks upon Suthep's protesters will garner sympathy for them, draw more supporters and make a coup (military or judicial) more and more likely before Feb 2nd.

The above gives Suthep's group the motive for arranging attacks on his own people.

What makes the above unlikely also is that Suthep does not want a military coup either - though a judicial one would seemingly suit his purposes.

Given the above, it is much more likely that these attacks are carried out by a) renegade red shirts/PTP supporters disgruntled members of the general populous who have lost income through the protests c) people trying to settle personal scores, knowing that it will be perceived as a political act & therefore cover their tracks.

Any of the above options a) - c) seems more feasible than the former.

They could just be "student gangs," polar opposites to the "network of students."

Not necessarily under anyone's control.

There's a lot of hatred out there on both sides and a lot of hotheads among the youth.

Thailand Protest 2013 - Explained

--------------- Excellent

This peaceful protest has now become the target of vicious and unrelenting attacks, under the tacit protection of an administration that has a very tolerant attitude towards vigilantism, and will do all it can to frame the narrative away from them. As Yingluck continues to give facebook postings of an election that will bind the people together, as the police continue their exhaustive campaign of convincing us that the world is indeed flat, and as the NACC investigates sea upon sea of corruption, we see yet another story. The administration - with the full weight of power at their disposal - buttressed with the support of roaming vigilante groups and mini-armies willing to take matters into their own hands - are pitted against the Thai people - armed with whistles and a belief that this most dark period of Thai history will end - will yield to one where corruption in the police, where corruption in the administration will no longer be tolerated. Where they can dream of a just and peaceful society. Where all voices can be heard and expressed, without fear.

Are all you post crafted in a PR department?

Could be.

Sounds uncommonly similar to the "Thagsin" video narration.

Weird the same weird video is above

This peaceful protest has now become the target of vicious and unrelenting attacks, under the tacit protection of an administration that has a very tolerant attitude towards vigilantism, and will do all it can to frame the narrative away from them. As Yingluck continues to give facebook postings of an election that will bind the people together, as the police continue their exhaustive campaign of convincing us that the world is indeed flat, and as the NACC investigates sea upon sea of corruption, we see yet another story. The administration - with the full weight of power at their disposal - buttressed with the support of roaming vigilante groups and mini-armies willing to take matters into their own hands - are pitted against the Thai people - armed with whistles and a belief that this most dark period of Thai history will end - will yield to one where corruption in the police, where corruption in the administration will no longer be tolerated. Where they can dream of a just and peaceful society. Where all voices can be heard and expressed, without fear.

Are all you post crafted in a PR department?

Could be.

Sounds uncommonly similar to the "Thagsin" video narration.

Sorry to go slightly off topic but the BBC's Jonathan Head says the BBC had never taken side's.

i sincerely hope he's talking about this situation rather than the totally left-wing biased claptrap they come out with in the UK.

Used to come out with.

Time's have changed

I take it for what it is a confession that this is indeed a red shirt action. And if it is true then it shows how much worse they are the anti government protesters. Not that many people doubt that I mean they are the ones that burned BKK.

At least in 2010 they had enough nerve to not run away.

This in my opinion is the final straw. The red shirts and the PTP are so entwined that there is no way the government can claim innocence in this.

And you know the Red Shirts did it how exactly? Crystal ball?

The Democrat MP aide wanted for questioning and the video isn't proof enough (and it shouldn't) in the other thread but within a couple hours with no proof whatsoever "it's the Red Shirts!"

And if these 2 are innocent you would think they would have either turned themselves in by now or got a hot shot lawyer speaking on their behalf

Remains to be seen

Not a towel

I'm sure it's the perp's white shirt sleeve that flashes out as he throws the grenade and immediately after he runs away from the back and the small driver jumps out.

Not a towel

I'm sure it's the perp's white shirt sleeve that flashes out as he throws the grenade and immediately after he runs away from the back and the small driver jumps out.

The video clearly shows the car stopping (why would it stop while everyone else is moving?) and then at 0:13 the driver throws something out of the window and it explodes right afterwards. Play it a few times from 0:13 to 0:15 and you'll see it very clearly.

The video and these 3 seconds are going viral among Thais on Facebook. Won't be long until every Thai knows who really bombed the protesters.

Another possibility is the grenade is thrown from behind the pickup.

It looks like There is someone wearing a white shirt behind the pickup to the right who may have thrown it wrapped up in a towel or something and runs away in back.

It's a nice effort to cling to the Thaksin is the root cause of the social upheaval argument. That Thaksin didn't just "go to ground" as did his predecessors when the "calling came" is really the historical problem of Thai corruption and feeding off the opportunistic system, if you're in the right tier of society that is. That's exactly the problem. Thaksin is actually the initiator of trying to channel some of that skim back to the underclass which disenfranchised the establishment and woke them up that he is not planning to just "go to ground, but instead is actually trying to embrace them in some way. Maybe his goal was self serving, but at least he was identifying them and found his own way to make them feel part of the system as is not the case before him.

That there is an "implicit" understanding that they "go to ground" and leave the trough when they have had more than sufficient take and skim is exactly what is at the root of the festering problem. They are at the stage of fighting over who is at the trough and who says enough is enough. Thaksin, like democracy as you put it, is but a tool of the establishment that stirs the force of movement to get them to "go to ground." You are right in stating that this will not happen in this generation of politics, but it is the press that needs to evolve in representing the truth that educates subsequent generations. Distorting the facts and censoring the history is not the right path if you want constructive change for the benefit of the underclass. Part of their frustration is the sense of participation in the truth.

It is not a reasonable and positive evolution of Thai politics for future generations to have the people "believe" that a Suthep or Sondhi style of politics backed by a military threat and the appointment of a "people's council" designated by the fox in the chicken coup is a "democratic way." Nor is the appointment of another establishment guy who agrees to go to ground when the others say he's through. The press should make this clear and stand by the idea of one man one vote and legally elected officials and fair and equal representation and application of law. The press should place values on these characteristics and not pander to emotions and censorship by the establishment.

Knowledge is power and the majority Thai underclass shouldn't be denied the factual information and reality of Thai politics and the Thai game as it has been and is played. Whether they gain any power will remain to be seen, but they should be armed with a proper history. With real history and facts, better education and health care, the Thai underclass will continue to get stronger. This concern is really the root of the problem. The Thai establishment eventually has to concede the truth and embrace the underclass although they look like they will be kicking and screaming a lot longer.

Excellent!

Your logic is somewhat misaligned if you can make a comparison between a national protest against a definitively corrupt and ineffectual government,

And what about your logic of accusing the current government of corruption, when the people they want to replace it with are even more corrupt. You don't find that a bit hypocritical?

I don't think any government in Thai history lost over 13 billion USD in less than two years just to stay popular in rural Thailand. We're not talking only rice scam here. There is also a water management scam, a tablet for every child scam (paid in advance), not being delivered, questionable quality etc...etc...Get some perspective, will you? Accountability - no, responsibility - no, representation - no, transparency - no.

So go to the electorate then.

There is an election.

Thin grounds for the removal of the people's constitutional rights.

It's not about the competance of the government is it really?

It's about a New Order.

Same same as in the 1930's supposedly.

Copycat thais. Nothing original. Tried in 2006, 2008 and now 2013/2014.

This is a "peaceful" protest so that Suthep's mob is seen to hold the moral high ground, although they don't actually hold any such thing. A democratically elected government can perhaps make that claim. They also know that the government dare not use force against them. This is why they can be "peaceful" and at the same time bring Bangkok to its knees.

This minority wants nothing less than power back in their hands and it won't happen ever again, no matter where you stand politically. Thailand is heading to a civil war as there is nowhere else to go. Strangling the breath out of a city will inevitably lead to violence like this. If there is no such violent response to this "protest", the Yellows will win, so there has to be a response. This development is as logical as it is wrong. This is simply how civil wars start.

Many if not most expats believe thailand can never descend into civil war.

They generally believe the people are too lazy etc.

Just as people in Britain said that a figure like Hitler could never rise up.

Many at the time though were pro nazi against the socialists and communists.

It happened in vietnam, in laos, in cambodia why not thailand?

The arrogance of the elite makes it more and more likely and then there will be no winners.

Seems likely they are part of suthep's protection detail.He's going to need protection henceforth

Yes extremely likely that bodyguards use silencers. Like I said before: "Jumping through hoops".

now there are 2 versions of this: the narcotics investigation was the first, now the BP reports moonlighting as security agents for the protests. It's all very odd. Silencers?

Seems likely they are part of suthep's protection detail.

He's going to need protection henceforth

With navy seals like those I now understand why they can't make any progress in the south against the Muslim terrorists.

Looks like a rushed job to me using official vehicle.

They didn't have time this time to buy a car at auction!

Suthep seems to have miscalculated in two respects.

First off, he wants to close down government, largely by blockading government buildings. But he always announces what he is going to do a week or even two weeks in advance. This gives a largely static enemy enough time to react and make arrangements for skeleton service to continue. To be most effective, he needs to strike with speed and without warning. He could use his own storm troopers for the initial blockade and then supplement them with a rallying call to normal Thais.

Secondly, he needs the support of normal Thais so that he has some weight of numbers and give credence to his claim to be acting for and on behalf of the people. But calls for violent criminal acts may alienate the very Thais from whom he needs support.

As a possible wider issue, inciting violence against the government in general and against the Shinawatra family specifically, make it easier for Thaksins claims of his criminal conviction being politically motivated, to be given credence by western media. Not an immediate issue, but one that maybe useful to Mr T in the longer term.

If Suthep wishes to preside over a revolutionary spring consisting of a peaceful uprising by the people, he should stick to that theme and avoid violence or calls for violence. He also needs a few more million people out on the streets.

And please don't respond with facts, rumors and suppositions of what red shirts have done in the past. I am talking about the current situation, not past history.

The problem with what you read in the Thai Media can be very twisted

For example 1 Media said They are ready to kidnap member of parliment

another said the will arrest them under people power

so which one is correct

I agree about the forward warnings

But when you live in Thailand long enough you know this is the Thai way

Police will raid Pattaya beach next tuesday looking for Lady boys

Wednesday news

Last night police crack down was a total success on ly 1 lady bot was arrested

Thursday

236 Ladyboys back on the beach

Bend with the wind my friend

Do not fight it, it will drive you crazy

More balanced reporting of an unbalanced mind

Thailand protests: an on-stage duel

http://blogs.channel4.com/world-news-blog/flambuoyant-duelling-heart-thailands-protests/26695

C4 news

Thailand protests: an on-stage duel

http://blogs.channel4.com/world-news-blog/flambuoyant-duelling-heart-thailands-protests/26695

C4 news

Extremely sad figure.

He got a large part of his education in a democratic country, but he doesn't understand anything about democracy.

He belongs to a minority of 'richer' people. He did not succeed in conving a majority of his beliefs.

Blaming about corruption is ridiculous, because corruption is unfortunately everywhere in Thai society. It makes no distinction between parties.

Let the democratic process move forward, have elections and then work together for ONE Thailand!

The PTP are aware of a gullible uneducated narrow voter base being manipulated. Wikileaks released documents showing that America approved of the coup in 2006. They knew it was a return to democracy. It reiterates that it is post ballot box actions that molds a govts sincerity to democracy. All that elections do is give them a chance to show it. Of course PTP supporters will only ever say, but but but but we won the election because they cannot state any other democratic principles that the PT adhere to. Their form of democracy means threatening army chiefs daughters with kidnapping and death. Their form of democracy means threatening judges with kidnapping. Their form of democracy means the World bank, Moody's, UNHCR, Human Rights Watch, the DEMS, the Environmentalists, the corn farmer, academics, global economists, IMF was all wrong.Why? Because they have opposing view points. Their form of democracy is being backup up by the UDD which is more a paramilitary unit that a lover of democracy. They state principle #3 is non violence, but Jatuporn tells his supporters to use children as human shields and to paint the sky red. Red with blood. So much for the principles! Carry the b#llshit and let the UDD square root it and you have the PTP's form of democracy. Of the 8 principles of democracy they adhere to 1. They will defend 1. They will let their gullible followers die for 1. The other 7? Silence. They won the election. So when you say democratic process. What you really mean is one characteristic of it. ELECTIONS. Unless of course forcing MP's to vote for an amnesty against the voice of their electorate. Unless of course telling the population that they are garbage if they disagree with you and want public water management hearings. Unless of course changing a senate to ensure it is filled with TS puppets because TS is fully aware of the weakness in Thai democracy and wants to fully abuse it. To think that western educated people can still say "let the democratic process move forward" I say "Let the democratic process begin"

Oh dear you obviously haven't read wikileaks on thailand have you?

Best to some up what Sondhi, leader of the PAD said.

That ambassador John made it all up to "big himself up"

Publicus

Any chance you can clear up for everyone if the guy standing behind Yingluck is - as you claimed earlier in thread - Security for the PM or the Caretaker Transport Minister Chatchart Sittipunt?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

revolution , a good thing imo , we could do with one in the UK too come to think of it, ..........start from scratch and stop the greed of the " elite"...... worldwide!

And led by a man who, in the 1980s, gave away Phuket land earmarked for the poor to 11 of its richest families, then later used his political influence to ensure palm oil shares were valued artifically high so that his family could sell theirs at a massive profit.

Really, do people not bother to investigate Suthep's shady political past and think it odd that he is shouting so loud about the need to clean up politics?

Instead of this fluff piece from the nation why do we never see any serious journalistic investigations into the man?

In the us, uk, in the civilized world, you would expect serious endeavor to unearth the truth. In the uk panorama would do a pice for sure.

It would be everywhere

The public would expect it and be eager to read about it.

Unfortunately in Thailand everyone is too afraid to do anything.

Suthep is "untouchable."

You get him cornered, bang to rights and his response will be.

"What are you going to do about it?"

Win or lose he's safe.

If civil war breaks out he says in this piece he'll return home.

Sure, to his feudal fortress.

The reds won't be coming. He'll feel safe surrounded by his paid thugs.

Yellow shirt on megaphone shouting to red shirts to get out, get out and then shots are fired.

Police were called but the shooter didn't respect police and started firing (translation by the wife)