sunluvr

Having worked in media, public performance, video and music worlds, on 3 continents,

I don't see it quite as black and white anymore. People come in two extremes good and evil.

And a whole lot of gray in between.

I have met extra 'proper' church going, absolutely gender correct, people who were

loathsome to be around, their intolerance to all except their views palpable like

rancid butter on your tounge.

I have met stunning gorgeous transgenders who were a sweet and down to earth as can be.

Only wanting to be left to their own devices and willing to accept all others as themselves.

I have met many confused people from both sides of that divide.

The confused ones often are agressive towards one side or another.

The confusion is the worst aspect IMHO.

And of course reasonably well adjusted, kindly and tollerent 'normal folk'

who don't begrudge others their foibles.

I like to think I am in this group.

Kids will be kids and develop as they are going to.

Nature and nurture in tandem.

To yank a doll from a male toddler's hands so he doesn't act too girlie

is sending a bad message like forcing him to become a mini-kickboxer

when it's not his thing. Gender roles are what children gravitate to naturally,

they can be coaxed and directed gently, but not forced. And NOT shamed.

All that does is create anger, hate, resentment and CONFUSION.

Some children are not wired the same as others,

Each has a unique electro-chemical / learning composition,

some more feminized, some more masculine,

others more mellow, some more angry 24/7,

some avid readers by 4, others never reading unless forced, till a teen.

The MAIN issue is not rote, agressive re-enforcment of cut and dried gender roles,

but encouragement to make GOOD DECISIONS in their lives,

whether we agree with them or not.

Accept the child as the child, this unique person in development,

and guide them to be good members of society.

In a dress or not.

I can only wish I had been gifted with this person's eloquence, and couldn't agree more with what he's said. And wish there was more level-headed thinking such as this throughout the world.

Peace

I called the Vancouver consulate, they said no problem for a 90 day single entry non immigrant O visa - send application, copy of letter from pension org and $65 (~2000 bht), so it is on its way there now by courier... an extra day to get there than my first choice, but I should have it back in a week. *sigh of relief*

Good

Did you check with any of the other consulates I suggested?

I think the single entry is best for you. Just don't forget to get the re-entry permit before you leave Thailand. A multiple entry non-o would be a waste of money since you can go out and come back on a single using the re-entry permit.

Don't forget my suggestion about opening a bank account as soon as you get here and transfer some money in just in case immigration asks for it when you apply for your extension.

Joe

Edit: Just read your most recent reply. What do you mean by the 4 months that you will be here? Visa is only good for 90 days and re-entry permit does not change that. Unless of course you are including some time after getting your one year extension.

2 of the other consulates I tried to contact were only open a few hours, 2 days a week... neither of them on a friday afternoon.

after 60 days, I will either apply for the 1 year extension (for retirement), or possibly for a non-immigrant B, depending on my situation at that time... as I will be looking at business opportunities and there is a possibility I will get into some kind of business venture by that time...

and with a single entry visa, yes I realize i need the re-entry permit when I leave which I don't see as a big deal at all.. I want to travel to Cambodia and maybe Vietnam while I'm there - maybe at the same time, so 1 or 2 re-entries in the 4 months that I will be there is not a problem..

You can get a single Re Entry Permit 1,000 Baht. Or a Multi Re Entry Permit 3,800 Baht.

Out of interest. When you leave after 4 months how long are you staying away before you return?

Likely not for another 7-8 months, and then return then for another 4-5 months..

copy of letter from pension org

Out of curiosity, how much do they want to see -- the equivalent of 65k baht/mo?

Anyway, if you can meet that, all the above discussion about 'border runs' is moot, as monthly income/embassy affidavit will do the trick for getting your retirement extension; and money-in-the-bank for 3-months is a non player.

However, with a 'single entry' Non Imm O -- and your desire to travel -- you'll still need to go to Immigration for that re-entry permit -- which will preserve the 90-day permission to stay you'll get when you enter Thailand with your good-for-one-time-only Non Imm O visa.

yes - 65k per month is what they want to see.. and I have that, so no "seasoning money in the bank" issues for me - providing our dollar hangs in there... I see it going back up slightly in the last 2 days - hope it continues in that direction..

and with a single entry visa, yes I realize i need the re-entry permit when I leave which I don't see as a big deal at all.. I want to travel to Cambodia and maybe Vietnam while I'm there - maybe at the same time, so 1 or 2 re-entries in the 4 months that I will be there is not a problem..

With a Single Entry Non Imm Visa, I can leave and re-enter Thailand within the 90 days with only a re-entry permit?

Yes, if you have a multiple non-immigrant visa you won't even need a re-entry permit.

I think that clinches it then... tomorrow I will send in the application for the 90 day single entry non O visa... I will likely make only one trip out of Thailand during my entire stay there - likely within the first 90 days... and can apply for the 1 year extension somewhere between day 60 and 70...

Great

It looks like you have got things figured out.

If you go to the following page on the Ottawa embassy website you will find a list of consulates near the bottom of page. Vancouver and Ottawa appear to be official consulates. The remainder may be Honorary conulates. You might contact one of them and find that they are easier to deal with.

Link: http://www.magma.ca/~thaiott/visa3.htm

GRRRRRRR!!!!!! dam_n inconsistent bureaucrats!! Before sending off my application to Ottawa (150 kms away) I called them to confirm I was sending all that was required and was clearly told I cannot be issued a 90 day non-immigrant visa, after telling them the purpose of my visit was to 'explore possibility of retirement there'. They will only issue a 60 day tourist visa or the 1 year non O-A with all its added requirements. So now, I have to wait another 3 hours until the other embassy office in Vancouver opens and see if they're any more cooperative... *sigh*

I called the Vancouver consulate, they said no problem for a 90 day single entry non immigrant O visa - send application, copy of letter from pension org and $65 (~2000 bht), so it is on its way there now by courier... an extra day to get there than my first choice, but I should have it back in a week. *sigh of relief*

With a Single Entry Non Imm Visa, I can leave and re-enter Thailand within the 90 days with only a re-entry permit?

Yes, if you have a multiple non-immigrant visa you won't even need a re-entry permit.

I think that clinches it then... tomorrow I will send in the application for the 90 day single entry non O visa... I will likely make only one trip out of Thailand during my entire stay there - likely within the first 90 days... and can apply for the 1 year extension somewhere between day 60 and 70...

Great

It looks like you have got things figured out.

If you go to the following page on the Ottawa embassy website you will find a list of consulates near the bottom of page. Vancouver and Ottawa appear to be official consulates. The remainder may be Honorary conulates. You might contact one of them and find that they are easier to deal with.

Link: http://www.magma.ca/~thaiott/visa3.htm

GRRRRRRR!!!!!! dam_n inconsistent bureaucrats!! Before sending off my application to Ottawa (150 kms away) I called them to confirm I was sending all that was required and was clearly told I cannot be issued a 90 day non-immigrant visa, after telling them the purpose of my visit was to 'explore possibility of retirement there'. They will only issue a 60 day tourist visa or the 1 year non O-A with all its added requirements. So now, I have to wait another 3 hours until the other embassy office in Vancouver opens and see if they're any more cooperative... *sigh*

WOOOPS - I was a little hasty in posting their response and didn't see their total reply (including my original questions) initially. Here is the rest of their reply:

From: Mr Sunluvr

Sent: October 31, 2008 10:27 AM

To: BNGKK (CS)

Subject: Guarantee letter re pension income

In order to apply for a 1-year extension of a non-immigrant O visa within Thailand, they require "A guarantee-letter from The Embassy or Consulate, proving the monthly pension or income of the applicant not less than 65,000 baht per month." I have a few questions relating to this:

1) Can you tell me what documentation or proof you require in order to provide such a letter? Would a pension statement for the current calendar year suffice?

Answer: A pension statement would be sufficient. Please also bring your passport.

2) Is there a cost associated with providing this letter? If so, how much?

Answer: Yes, a fee of THB 1.400.- would be required.

3) Is the letter available on the same day as it is requested?

Answer: Yes, the letter is available on the same morning.

Thanks,

Mr Sunluvr

With a Single Entry Non Imm Visa, I can leave and re-enter Thailand within the 90 days with only a re-entry permit?

Yes, if you have a multiple non-immigrant visa you won't even need a re-entry permit.

I think that clinches it then... tomorrow I will send in the application for the 90 day single entry non O visa... I will likely make only one trip out of Thailand during my entire stay there - likely within the first 90 days... and can apply for the 1 year extension somewhere between day 60 and 70...

Since you are from Canada. Here is contact info for the consular section of embassy.

http://geo.international.gc.ca/asia/bangko...ontact1-en.aspx

Thanks - I have emailed them with the question and will post their reply once received...

WOW - their office can't be that busy... got a reply in less than 15 minutes...

Their response:

Hello Mr. Sunluvr, (name changed to protect the innocent)

Please find the answers to your questions.

Our service are during 09:00-12:00noon, Monday to Friday.

Should you have further question, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards,

Chitmanee Charnpinyo

Senior Consular Program Assistant

Embassy of Canada/Ambassade du Canada

15th Floor/15e étage, Abdulrahim Place

990 Rama IV Road / 990 rue Rama IV

Bangkok, Thailand 10500

Telephone/téléphone: 0 2636-0540 ext. 3341

Fax/télécopieur: 0 2636-0555

E-mail/courriel: [email protected]

(attached file shown below)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AFFIDAVIT

I, ________________________________________, born on ____________________, holder of

Canadian passport number __________________, hereby affirm on _________________ that:

I receive monthly pension income and/or other types of income in the amount of

__________________________________________.

The purpose of this affidavit is

_____________________________________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________________________________.

Signed _______________________

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand you want to apply for a non-immigrant visa based on retirement, using the income of 65,000 a month. Why don't you just apply for a non-immigrant visa, possibly a multiple, to start with?

It's more complicated and time consuming - require medical exam, police check and notary public to confirm those PLUS verification of income... and my time is getting short... also, there's a chance I may end up applying for a non-B extension rather than a retirement one...

No. You just need a Single Entry Non Imm Visa. (90 days) Takes the same time as a Tourist Visa and saves having to convert in Thailand. Reason for application? To explore retirement and extend in Thailand.

With a Single Entry Non Imm Visa, I can leave and re-enter Thailand within the 90 days with only a re-entry permit?

I understand you want to apply for a non-immigrant visa based on retirement, using the income of 65,000 a month. Why don't you just apply for a non-immigrant visa, possibly a multiple, to start with?

It's more complicated and time consuming - require medical exam, police check and notary public to confirm those PLUS verification of income... and my time is getting short... also, there's a chance I may end up applying for a non-B extension rather than a retirement one...

Since you are from Canada. Here is contact info for the consular section of embassy.

http://geo.international.gc.ca/asia/bangko...ontact1-en.aspx

Thanks - I have emailed them with the question and will post their reply once received...

A potential scenario for me is to enter Thailand (on November 26) with a 60 day double entry tourist visa, then within 39 days, apply for a non-O visa within Thailand, then 30 days or less before that expires, apply for a 1 year extension on a retirement basis. My questions are:

1) if I wanted to leave the country after getting the non-O visa and return before the 60th day (using the double entry allowance on the tourist visa), what effect would that have on the non-O visa, or is that even possible to do?

2) if I wanted to leave and re-enter after the 60th day but before applying for the 1-year extension ( I understand that can only be done in the last 30 days of the 90 day period) is there a multiple entry version of the non-O visa I would need to have, and if so, how much is that?

3) My total length of stay will be about 4 months, and on my final departure from Thailand, I would get a re-entry permit (about March 30, 2009) to allow me to return again later next year. Does the re-entry permit stop the clock on the 1-year extension period until I return or simply allow my return under that extension, providing I return within 1 year of the extension issue date?

4) When I return within the 1 year, is my 'permission to stay' date revised to 1 year from the re-entry date?

Regarding the following requirement for a retirement extension - A guarantee-letter from The Embassy or Consulate, proving the monthly pension or income of the applicant not less than 65,000 baht per month - what does the embassy or consulate (Canada in my particular situation) usually require as proof/documentation in order to provide this letter? Would an original pension statement for the current calendar year suffice?

Looking for reputable lawyer/law firm in Phuket, fluent in English, with expertise in Thai company formation/acquisition, etc.

hmmm... none in Phuket, I guess... how about in Bangkok?? Anyone know of any?

However other criteria have changed in the last year such as some areas are requiring 4 Thai employees per work permit while before they were not. Other provinces were before requiring these criteria of 4 Thai employees and now are not.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I recognize that things can change at any given time, but can you expand on this as you see the current situation? Of specific interest would be for the Bangkok, Phuket and Koh Samui areas/provinces.

It’s not strictly correct to say that a Company for sale can “include …… one or more Work Permits” .

Whilst the Company may meet the Registered Capital and other requirements to be able to justify a Work Permit for a foreigner, Work Permits are issued to individuals who the Labour Department determines are qualified to hold a particular position in a particular Company.

A Company does not have a certain “Quota” of Work Permits which they can issue at whim.

Patrick

Do I understand that to mean that a business offered for sale with this statement in its advertisement that " this business comes complete with a Thai Ltd Company and two workpermits" would be of no benefit to me, relative to the requirement of obtaining a work permit?

I've noticed in searching for available business opportunites in Thailand that some of the businesses for sale include a registered Thai company and one or more work permits, and wondering what the pros and cons are of assuming such an existing company. I have read that one risk is that you would assume any existing liabilities of that company. In that regard, what ways can one determine if there are such liabilities? Has anyone had direct experience in such an acquisition? What are some of the other complexities or advantages in acquiring such a business?

Looking for reputable lawyer/law firm in Phuket, fluent in English, with expertise in Thai company formation/acquisition, etc.

I know some will suggest that this topic would be better moved to the real estate/housing forum but my question here is specific to a foreigner with a same-sex Thai partner that wants to build a house on land owned by the Thai SO (significant other) or possibly by his family. I also know much has been written in other forums on TV about farang ownership of house/building and I have tried to find and read all of it, but must say I find it confusing, conflicting, vague at times, and most specific explanations of the kind of answers I am looking for relate only to legally recognized husband/wife scenarios. From what I have read about Tabien Ban/Baan/Bahn, its pretty clear that the Blue book is only for Thais and Yellow book is for foreigners, but it seems mostly that the Yellow book is more for confirming a farang's residence and not clearly confirming his ownership of the house/building.

I would be greatly interested in hearing from other farangs who are in this type situation themselves, or know firsthand others that are, and how they went about the whole process, any pros, cons, other ways of accomplishing the same thing - obtaining some kind of security that after building on their SO (or family's) land, that they would retain absolute right to use the building as they see fit, for as long as they live.

I'm interested in something not only to occupy my time - or at least part of it.. but also the time of a particular SO (significant other) who is Thai and much younger than myself... I also intend on spending a very reasonable amount of time on enjoying life, which for me can include being involved in some kind of business there, mixed with an adequate amount of pleasure, of course

Think twice.

If you have the necessary funds income/deposit to meet the OA requirements why not sit back and enjoy life.

Starting a Thai company means investment, in these uncertain times, and a whole lot of hassle.

I just received the visa application package (specifically for non-OA) from the Thai Consulate here in Canada and the instructions include the following:

Under Section 1. QUALIFICATIONS FOR THE APPLICANT, subsection 1.6 says:

"Not being allowed to work in Thailand."

that doesn't sound too promising..

It is possible to work on a retirement visa again, that said not all labour offices seem to allow it (yet). So it would also depend on where you will apply for the WP.

If you can't get a WP, you could still apply for an extension of stay based on your company, although that would not be as easy as for a retirement visa. It requires a lot more paperwork, especialy for a new to form company. If the company doesn't work out, you could always apply again for an extension of stay based on retirement.

I am Canadian, 56, planning on returning to Thailand later this year where I have visited several times before, hoping to stay this time for about 4 months when I go there in December. Eventually in a few years I am hoping to live 6 months there and 6 months in Canada. I had considered enrolling in the Walen school in BKK this time which would allow me a 1-year visa but have now decided to apply for a retirement (OA) visa as I have an adequate pension that would allow me to take that route. At some point in the future, I also want to set up a Thai company to buy/start up a business there which would allow me to obtain a work permit. It appears from other recent posts I have read here that it may be possible to get a work permit with a non-OA visa. If it is possible for me to set up a Thai company and obtain a work permit with a non-OA visa, are there pros/cons to me doing that instead of switching to a non-B visa?

thanks for your help, and good point.. i shall do so..

Gary

I've decided to apply for a 1 year retirement visa (non-oa?) with multiple entry from here in Canada, as I'm planning on travelling to neighbouring countries a bit while I am there for the 4 months... now my question is, if I can obtain a work permit, create a Thai company with that type of visa, is there anything to be gained by changing it to a non-b at that point? Also, am I correct in understanding that with a 1 year non-oa, I can get a 1 year extension if I re-enter prior to the expiry of the original visa?

With a non-oa for as long as it remains valid you will get another year every time you enter country.

With all the complexities of setting up a company here and then getting a work permit you may need to eventually change to a non-b visa. Setting up and forming companis and all the legalities that go with it is a bit beyond what I prefer to make suggestions about. At the moment anwering your question about non-oa is difficult to anwer. Even getting a work permit on a retirement visa is still apoint of disscusion.

You posted this on the end of a topic with a different title than what we are discussing so you will not get the full benefit of the "experts" that are on here.

I think you would better off posting a new topic. Such as the following.

Topic header: NON-OA VISA QUESTIONS topic description: Can I form a company and get a work permit?

With that I bow out for now.

Joe

I've decided to apply for a 1 year retirement visa (non-oa?) with multiple entry from here in Canada, as I'm planning on travelling to neighbouring countries a bit while I am there for the 4 months... now my question is, if I can obtain a work permit, create a Thai company with that type of visa, is there anything to be gained by changing it to a non-b at that point? Also, am I correct in understanding that with a 1 year non-oa, I can get a 1 year extension if I re-enter prior to the expiry of the original visa?

I'm not actually fully retired.. have a pension tho so can qualify for retirement but still have a business here in Canada and want to get into another one in Thailand and split my time between the 2 countries.... about 50/50 eventually... the sooner the better..

You can still start on a retirement visa like I said and change to a non-b. You can get the one year retirement (non-oa) at a consulate in Canada or get a 90 day non-o and extend it here. With your plans being what they are the extension here might be best for you.

The purpose of all this is to get a long term visa/extension so you don't have to make visa/border runs every 90 days. If you can't get that set up any other way then the ED visa arrangement is an option.

Joe