TheVicar

If youre in that area, and you want good pizza and excellent lasagne, continue just another few hundred yards to Tony Putrinos Yummy Pizza where the food is both better and considerably cheaper than Francescas.

I had a very bad eating experience at Francescas a year or so ago and vowed never to return, but then hey presto, Tony opens his place very close by, so problem solved!!

I will indeed try Yummy Pizza. Thanks for the tip.

We enjoyed our meal at Francescas. I suppose being vegetarian you are more picky with food than the rest of us.

Although I have cut back in consumption of meat (and basically only eat chicken from that food group), I'm not a strict vegetarian.

It would seem the vast number of posters here agreed with my overall review of Francescas: too expensive, not very good food, and bland.

what you had described about the cannelloni actually sounds right and seems to be done like a proper cannelloni. the good old cannelloni is done right uncooked together with the filling resulting in gooey, soft and very fragile and light tasting, cheese is never browned.

cannelloni in many places are mostly precooked, then filled with fillings, lathered with sauce and cheese and finally off to the oven till top layer are browned and crisp. very savory in tasting. this is probably the usual stuff you had tried.

im not sure how did it taste like, chances are it isnt bad food, just arent to your liking.

now, its been awhile since i taste some really fine cannelloni, i might just drop off there to try it. it does sound like a proper cannelloni

Thanks to all for the many comments.

But a big no to the above poster. There were 2 major problems with this restaurant's cannelloni: 1) it was advertised as coming with bechamel sauce, which is quite customary. However, bechamel sauce is always and only white, there was tomato mixed in with this sauce and that is definitely a no no. 2) Contrary to what you write, cannelloni should be golden brown on the top, not a gooey mess that has obviously been through a micro wave.

From Classic Pasta:

"Cover loosely with aluminum foil and bake at 375 degrees for about 20 minutes. After about fifteen minutes, take off the cover to allow a golden crust to happen. Allow the cannelloni to settle a few minutes before serving." (emphasis added)

Source: http://www.classicpa...how_to_make.htm

From the award winning cookbook, Simply Italian

"Bake for 30 minutes until the top is golden brown."

Or Jamie Oliver:

"cook until golden"

(you can see a video of this and what the finished result looks like (golden brown top) here:

The other problem with both of the dishes that I tried at this restaurant was this: both were under seasoned and completely bland. That is not Italian cooking at its best. NOTE that in the picture above, it is NOT a classic bechamel sauce.

And yes, it is located in what appears to be a shophouse. But the decor is not the problem, it's the food!

It would be unusual to get Strep from food wouldn't it?

More likely someone coughing or sneezing saliva on to you. That of course could happen in a crowded restaurant setting

It can result from infected pork (usually under cooked) but usually occurs for those workers directly handling infected pigs and their products. See http://www.who.int/foodsafety/micro/strepsuis/en/

Following the footsteps of another restaurant review here and a popular thread on Italian food, this is a review of Francesca Pizzeria & Restaurant. It is not centrally located. It is on the Canal Road about 7 kilometers beyond the Suthep Junction, a couple hundred meters beyond the Mae Hea Market on the left side of Canal Road as you drive South.

For an out of the way location, prices are not cheap here. Maybe that is because the ownership is counting on nearby large housing estates and gated housing which has lots of wealthy farangs. I ordered a Vegetarian Pizza, good size at 10 inches (larger size is 12) and the price for it was 210 baht. The pizza had a thin crust but was relatively doughy. The toppings were green peppers, courgettes and grilled aubergines but this kind of pizza needed more seasoning (I could taste no oregano or rosemary and none was provided in containers at the table). Some onion in this would have provided at least some flavor. So it was very bland, not to my taste. The only seasoning on the tables were salt and pepper. That is not adequate; nor was any extra grated parmesan cheese brought with it (the waiter hurried away before I could ask for some). No one came by to ask how the pizza was.

I also ordered one of the 5 or 6 specials of the day which happened to be cannelloni filled with ricotta cheese and spinach and with a bechamel sauce. I had hoped this would be better than the pizza but it turned out to be worse. First off, the sauce had some tomato in it; bechamel sauce is white, it has no tomato at all in it. Secondly, the whole thing was gloppy and gooey. Cannelloni should be baked to a golden brown on the outside but the pasta itself should retain some firmness; these were simply gloppy, not even the long and correct shape for this type of pasta. I suspect that because they were not baked brown, a microwave was used. Third, like the pizza, it was under spiced. This dish usually has onion in it but I could taste none. So this dish had absolutely no character and was not cooked to correct form. Nor was it cheap at 190 baht. With these two courses, I had a small beer Leo at B60.

On the menu, they offer a number of pizzas ranging from 150-230 baht for a 10 inch; several pasta dishes from B 90-240; chicken & pork main courses at B 200; and some appetizers and salads from 70-150 baht plus the specials of the day (around B 200).

The decor of the place inside, which is air con, is pleasant enough with 6 wooden tables and wooden chairs and some nice prints on pastel green walls. The tables had a a light green linen on them with crisp white cloth napkins. There is one table outside but since it looks out on busy Canal Road, I ate inside. There was only one other person eating at the restaurant which was early on a Friday evening, about 6:30 p.m.

All in all, my sense here is that whoever was in the kitchen (and I did hear some Italian spoken) is clueless about both cooking and marketing. Indifferent (pizza) to bad food (the cannelloni) with no owner/manager coming by to ask how the dining experience went. They do offer takeaway and there is a number to call to order. But my impression is: why bother? There are many good restaurants in Chiang Mai but this is not one of them. Given the non-central location, they need to do more than they did. I give this place a thumbs down.

Decor: 3 stars (pleasant but average; canned classical music being played) out of 5

Service: 2 stars (efficient but not enthusiastic or friendly; no follow-up)

Value: 1 star (poor)

Food: 1 star (poor)

Francesca Pizzeria & Restaurant, 135/10 Mae Hea, Amper Muang, Chiang Mai 50100 (on the Canal Road)

Open Tues-Sunday, 11:00 a.m. - 2 p.m. and 4:30 p.m. -10 p.m. Closed Mondays

Takeway order telephone number: 053-111298

No one claimed than Thais do not eat in Western fast food outlets. The argument was about Western fast food being the cause of obesity in Thailand. Most posters seem to agree that it is not.

Wow! You cannot even remember what you posted yourself. These are your words bucko: "Most Thais don't eat much Western fast food..." That's you in post #81 here.

There are other examples from people making the ridiculous claim that Thailand has few fast food outlets and that Thais do not eat in Western fast food outlets above too. Like this from HelloDolly: "Most Thai towns don't have any of these fast food outlets and the ones that do are inconsequential to the amount of people in the city."

There may well be all those fast foods outlets you talk of, but probably over 90% of thais never go to them, or perhaps visit them once or twice a year.

Agreed and Thai shops and mini marts were selling the same junk that 7/11 sells long before they got here, so they can't be blamed as the main cause for obesity in Thailand either.

You are so factually challenged.

1) there were virtually NO Thai fast food outlets before 7-11.

2) There were mom and pop operations selling things in small stores that looked somewhat like modern convenience stores but they did NOT sell slurpies, big gulps, hot dogs etc.

You simply claim many things that are factually nonsense.

You "suppose they're (the stats) right"? That's big of you. There is nothing to suppose. They are facts. Sources for them are given and can be checked. And how are the statistics I presented "out of context"? They show the vast number of fast food outlets in Thailand (in contradiction to other posters here claiming there are very few of them). You seem to think that Thais only go to "Thai markets" by which you seem to mean fresh markets. Those are not growing but going out of fashion; the "growth industry" in Thailand (as shown by one of the statements and facts above) is in the fast food sector.

Don't believe me? Suggestion: go to either of the two big shopping malls in the city and see how many Thais are there. Lots. Boatloads of them eating in the fast food outlets which are on all floors of all of these shopping centers. You'll also be able to spot the "wide bodies" that most of those addicted to the fast food places have (farangs and Thais).

You need to open your eyes (in addition to getting that spell checker fixed). The overwhelming weight of medical/nutritional opinion (pardon the pun) is that such food is very bad for the waistline and for one's overall health. It is beyond dispute by any but lunatics, climate denier types, those who think Darwin was wrong and the bible is right, those convinced Elvis is still alive and living on a desert island, advocates of the world ending on December 21 because the Mayan calendar, they claims, proves this etc.

Unfortunately the stats are incomplete. What is needed is what percentage of the total Thai diet comes from Western style fast food. Nothing you've cited makes any reference to that. In addition, even if Thais were not to east Western style fast food, does that mean they would stop or reduce their consumption of sugar and fatty foods? I think a reasonable alternative explanation is that as Thai income rises, they will eat less rice and more sugary and fatty foods. Human beings seem designed to crave that stuff.

Personal sightings of large number of large thais eating junk food at mini malls does not qualify as serious data. None of the statistics you've cited have anything to say about the growth decline of non western food. None of the statistics you've cited establish whether Thais are eating western junk food in place of healthful thai food or in place of Thai junk food. Words like "vast" may sound impressive, but they are subjective and not useful in establishing perspective.

And once again you indulge in ad hominem attacks by comparing people who question your arguments to anti Darwinists etc. (Also setting up a straw man) No one is saying that fatty foods are good for you. Just questioning a)whether it makes a difference if Thais eat Western style junk food or thai style junk food and b: if it's the fault of western fast food franchises that Thais are eating more junk food.

Even if your arguments were a lot stronger than they, in fact, are, what useful purpose do these ad hominem attacks serve? Why is it so difficult for you to adhere to rational discourse?

1. The stats are there for a purpose: to completely and definitely disprove comments by some posters above that there are not really so many fast food outlets in Thailand. That people continue to question that and also question the huge amount of evidence that fast food is bad for the body even given the stats puts them in the position of stat/science deniers; just like the deniers of global warming, Darwinian evolution etc. That is not an "ad hominem attack" but your last comments personally attacking me are. You're like the pot calling the kettle black! and to explain that to you it means: you are guilty of the very thing you are accusing me of.

2. Given your name, if you are connected to a baking operation that uses lots of butter, don't you have an undeclared vested interest here? Most of the authorities on food and nutrition will also point out that butter is bad for the body.

3. Whether it is the "fault" of Western style fast food outlets that Thais are eating their food is really immaterial, and more of a question of philosophy and ethics. The simple facts are that the western fast food outlets long ago decided that Thailand was a place where they could make lots of money, they came and set up and are in the process of setting up more fast food outlets, and they use very pervasive and persuasive marketing techniques to convince Thais (especially young people) to eat things that are not good for them.

4. I'm sorry you're displeased by the stats presented. You claim more are needed but that is the same kind of denial that the cigarette companies used 30 years ago. "More studies needed to determine whether tobacco is really bad...." Again, you seem to have a vested interest in unhealthy foods given your name here. It is "Butter is Better" no? And that is a commercial concern pushing unhealthy food products filled with sugar, salt, butter and white grains? Even while almost every authority on health and nutrition puts butter at the top of the list of unhealthy fats. Dr. Andrew Weil, for instance, recommends immediately throwing all butter into the garbage can and using healthier fats instead.

5. You overlook statistics and correlation. I've said again and again that the statistics on the growth of Thai obesity almost perfectly coincide with the growth and expansion of western fast food outlets in Thailand. In stats, that is a kind of proof, whether you like it or not. Thai cooking always had an element of sweetness (sugar) in it: but Thais were not fat for centuries upon centuries given that their food also emphasizes fresh food, much of it in vegetables and fruit; and there were no unhealthy fast food chains and bakeries pushing buttery items around. Butter---NOT! That all changed at the same time that western fast food chains began proliferating in Thailand: and that is statistically significant.

Here are some more facts (not wrong impressions) about fast food in Thailand:

1. "By the end of 2009, Mister Donut operated more than 200 outlets covering the entire country and continues to expand more outlets in the future."

2. "Currently, KFC holds the biggest share in the fast food restaurant chain’s market in Thailand. It can be said that these days, KFC has become a part of Thai people’s everyday life..."

3. Auntie Annes has more than 85 outlets in Thailand.

Source for above: http://www.crg.co.th...rand/index.html

AND:

4. "CP All continues to lead chained fast food sales in Thailand, with 7-Eleven accounting for 53% of value sales in 2010. The company has expanded aggressively, opening an average of 450 stores per year, and aims to reach 7,000 stores by 2013..."

5. "Fast food (in Thailand) will continue to record healthy growth over the forecast period, with the area having a projected forecast period constant value CAGR of 8%. Leading chained players will likely engage in aggressive outlet expansion, price promotions, advertising, CRM campaigns, menu innovations and additional services. Small chained stores and independent stores will struggle to compete as strong branding is a key factor for consumers when choosing fast food products."

Source for above: http://www.euromonit...thailand/report

AND:

AND:

A&W PLANS 100 OUTLETS IN 4 YEARS

KUB Malaysia Berhad, the licensee of A&W fast-food restaurants in Thailand and Malaysia, is ramping up its business in this country by spending one billion baht to reach 100 outlets.

A&W has been present in Thailand since 1983. KUB has had the franchise for the past 10 years.

Haniza Ros Nasaruddin, the company's general manager for business development, said it would add another 59 A&W restaurants to the existing 41 now in Thailand by 2015. Annual turnover is forecast to triple to one billion baht by the same year.

As I recall, the question at hand is whether the growing problem of obesity in Thailand, is due in whole, or in part, to the consumption of Western fast food. Nothing you have cited has established any proof of this. It may well be that Western fast food outlets are largely responsible for this problem. Most likely there are multiple causes for this problem all relating to the changing way Thais now live. But I don't have any proof of that. It's just a notion of mine. I know the difference between notions and facts. Some others seem to have a problem with making this distinction.

I'm not sure there was a "question at hand". My posts above were in response to other posters here claiming that 1) not many Thais eat out in fast food places (disproved above; the fast food outlets know the Thais are their target group and form a huge majority of their customers); and 2) there are not so many fast food places in Thailand (an unbelievable claim, as the stats I've shown above prove).

I fully agree with you that there are likely multiple causes for obesity. But diet (a healthy diet) is the starting point. That was reinforced just today by a new study that followed 31,546 people in 14 countries. The study extended for more than 5 years. Their conclusion: people who ate more fruits and vegetables had fewer heart attacks and related problems. Here is what the study said about salt: "Instead of salt at the table, add an herb or spice for seasoning." Interestingly, they also concluded that health benefits from a healthy diet can occur even after a person has a bad health history. “Often people have old habits of eating certain ways and think, ‘what is the use of change?’” says Ginn, of the University of Maryland Center for Diabetes and Endocrinology. “But this study shows even changing at a later age can have an impact.” Source: http://www.webmd.com...-attacks?page=2

But getting back to your point, which is a good one, health problems like obesity/heart disease/diabetes likely have multiple causes. First, diet. Second, insufficient amount of exercise. Third, genetic makeup. People can control and modify the first two, but not the latter.

I suppose your stats are right. But they are as you swell know taken out of context. They convientley overlook the fact that Thailand has 66 million people in it. Give us the percentage of those Thais that eat in them. I don't get around that much in Chiang Mai but I know that there is at least three McDonalds here in Chiang Mai all located in tourist areas or Western type shopping malls. Is there any in the Thai markets?

A Thai who eats at McDonalds once a month should not count in your % of Thais who eat in them. There are many reasons that people are over weight. Diet is a part of them But to come up with some miniscule figures when you compare them to a population of 66,000,000 is a little bit misleading. Also with the fact that many of them are placed in places designed to attract Westeners is also a little misleading.

Cut Salt out of your diet and let me know how it works out. You might like it but I think your body might revolt.

Exccuse the spelling My spell checker is not working. Conect that to the faact I can't spell and well this is what you get.

You "suppose they're (the stats) right"? That's big of you. There is nothing to suppose. They are facts. Sources for them are given and can be checked. And how are the statistics I presented "out of context"? They show the vast number of fast food outlets in Thailand (in contradiction to other posters here claiming there are very few of them). You seem to think that Thais only go to "Thai markets" by which you seem to mean fresh markets. Those are not growing but going out of fashion; the "growth industry" in Thailand (as shown by one of the statements and facts above) is in the fast food sector.

Don't believe me? Suggestion: go to either of the two big shopping malls in the city and see how many Thais are there. Lots. Boatloads of them eating in the fast food outlets which are on all floors of all of these shopping centers. You'll also be able to spot the "wide bodies" that most of those addicted to the fast food places have (farangs and Thais).

You need to open your eyes (in addition to getting that spell checker fixed). The overwhelming weight of medical/nutritional opinion (pardon the pun) is that such food is very bad for the waistline and for one's overall health. It is beyond dispute by any but lunatics, climate denier types, those who think Darwin was wrong and the bible is right, those convinced Elvis is still alive and living on a desert island, advocates of the world ending on December 21 because the Mayan calendar, they claims, proves this etc.

and dont forget yet another Pun Pun at the top of Suthep Road....left hand side, very last restaurant on the road.

They obviously have a few as I see their delivery van out and about.

Suthep Road one, again superb, and lovely food and staff. They also have a coffee shop attached and also run their own veggie thai cooking classes from here....but lower profile than the other cooking schools.

Seems to attract better quality customers, not riff raff, hence i dont go more than once a week.

Great! I didn't know about that one. Will check it out.

Nice thread. Similar have been done before, but times move on and people move in.

The other pun pun restaurant, now called im aim, is in santitham near the ymca. At the north-west corner of the moat, head due north at the traffic lights and take the first left turn. Signs will then deliver you to this absolute gem.

Tiang Zi pretty much opposite the imeperial mae ping hotel. Macrobiotic i think, and chinese. No thai food, but lots of different dishes to choose from. Outstanding food.

The old favourite, khun churn's in nimmin road soi 17, lunch time buffet for about 140 baht.

And anyone in the area, i urge you to visit a restaurant that i don't think has a name. If you are heading north out of town along the mae jo road you'll come to the big intersection with the inner ring road (the one with the big mee chok plaza and rimping in it). Turn left so you're heading west, then take the first u-turn and you'll see it on your left. It's in front of a chinese temple with a huge female statue. It's lad kao style, and i go for three choices normally which sets me back 35 baht. Often you struggle to limit yourself to three choices, so much good food and so so tasty. Open early until about 2pm. Lots of goodies to buy too.

Many great ideas here. Thanks!

This thread is a parallel one to the long running thread here on favorite health food stores in Chiang Mai. Only I'm asking posters for their favorite health food (veggie) restaurants in Chiang Mai.

I love Pun Pun Organic Vegetarian Restaurant located behind the Monk Chat Building in Wat Suan Dok (off of Suthep Road) and not far from CMU. Great setting (outdoors under umbrellas) and next to a huge, ancient Bodhi Tree (I think, I'm not an expert on that). Great food presented in an attractive fashion. Great service by Thais who can speak decent English. Great prices (most dishes are between 30-50 baht)(drinks are between B15-30). This restaurant proves that eating healthy, vegetarian food does not mean you have to eat gooey slop that generally has been overcooked and has been sitting around for hours, all cleverly disguised to look like hamburger or hot dogs. It's far more than tofu (they have nice salads, soups, appetizers (spring rolls to kill for), noodle dishes (try their take on Pad Thai which includes local mushrooms) and daily specials (in chalk on a black board). Also, has some bulletin boards with interesting info on local events. The organization running this has an organic farm, seed saving operation and sustainable living and learning center.

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

Open every day, from 8:30-5:30 p.m.

Can it get any better? Other posters ideas please.

Here are some more facts (not wrong impressions) about fast food in Thailand:

1. "By the end of 2009, Mister Donut operated more than 200 outlets covering the entire country and continues to expand more outlets in the future."

2. "Currently, KFC holds the biggest share in the fast food restaurant chain’s market in Thailand. It can be said that these days, KFC has become a part of Thai people’s everyday life..."

3. Auntie Annes has more than 85 outlets in Thailand.

Source for above: http://www.crg.co.th...rand/index.html

AND:

4. "CP All continues to lead chained fast food sales in Thailand, with 7-Eleven accounting for 53% of value sales in 2010. The company has expanded aggressively, opening an average of 450 stores per year, and aims to reach 7,000 stores by 2013..."

5. "Fast food (in Thailand) will continue to record healthy growth over the forecast period, with the area having a projected forecast period constant value CAGR of 8%. Leading chained players will likely engage in aggressive outlet expansion, price promotions, advertising, CRM campaigns, menu innovations and additional services. Small chained stores and independent stores will struggle to compete as strong branding is a key factor for consumers when choosing fast food products."

Source for above: http://www.euromonit...thailand/report

AND:

AND:

A&W PLANS 100 OUTLETS IN 4 YEARS

KUB Malaysia Berhad, the licensee of A&W fast-food restaurants in Thailand and Malaysia, is ramping up its business in this country by spending one billion baht to reach 100 outlets.

A&W has been present in Thailand since 1983. KUB has had the franchise for the past 10 years.

Haniza Ros Nasaruddin, the company's general manager for business development, said it would add another 59 A&W restaurants to the existing 41 now in Thailand by 2015. Annual turnover is forecast to triple to one billion baht by the same year.

As I recall, the question at hand is whether the growing problem of obesity in Thailand, is due in whole, or in part, to the consumption of Western fast food. Nothing you have cited has established any proof of this. It may well be that Western fast food outlets are largely responsible for this problem. Most likely there are multiple causes for this problem all relating to the changing way Thais now live. But I don't have any proof of that. It's just a notion of mine. I know the difference between notions and facts. Some others seem to have a problem with making this distinction.

I'm not sure there was a "question at hand". My posts above were in response to other posters here claiming that 1) not many Thais eat out in fast food places (disproved above; the fast food outlets know the Thais are their target group and form a huge majority of their customers); and 2) there are not so many fast food places in Thailand (an unbelievable claim, as the stats I've shown above prove).

I fully agree with you that there are likely multiple causes for obesity. But diet (a healthy diet) is the starting point. That was reinforced just today by a new study that followed 31,546 people in 14 countries. The study extended for more than 5 years. Their conclusion: people who ate more fruits and vegetables had fewer heart attacks and related problems. Here is what the study said about salt: "Instead of salt at the table, add an herb or spice for seasoning." Interestingly, they also concluded that health benefits from a healthy diet can occur even after a person has a bad health history. “Often people have old habits of eating certain ways and think, ‘what is the use of change?’” says Ginn, of the University of Maryland Center for Diabetes and Endocrinology. “But this study shows even changing at a later age can have an impact.” Source: http://www.webmd.com...-attacks?page=2

But getting back to your point, which is a good one, health problems like obesity/heart disease/diabetes likely have multiple causes. First, diet. Second, insufficient amount of exercise. Third, genetic makeup. People can control and modify the first two, but not the latter.

Sorry I am confused

I went last year sometime in December but had the impression the place is open year round.

Is this Royal Flora Ratchaphruek something different within the same place?

Thanks

Open year round but once every 4 or more years there is a very special Festival which goes on for many weeks - 3 months to be exact. Thais from everywhere in Thailand come in caravans of buses, trains, planes, etc., etc. Everywhere is full.

One of the nicest events I have seen in Thailand. Highly recommended. If you like gardens, it doesn't get any better that this.

Wrong! It is open from now til 28th of February and this is annual, not every 4 years. Tel. 053 114 110 for more info.

I've paid for gas thousands of times in Thailand and have never once been shortchanged. Can it happen? Sure, usually by legit mistake. For it to be intentional, you have to be very, very unlucky. It is far more likely to happen in the West.

The prejudice against salt consumption has its roots in a priori reasoning. Since salt would draw more water into the blood stream there would be higher blood pressure and this would damage the kidneys. But it was never clinically proven.

There is a lot of research out there on this. An article in Scientific American magazine does a good job of explaining it.

This week a meta-analysis of seven studies involving a total of 6,250 subjects in the American Journal of Hypertension found no strong evidence that cutting salt intake reduces the risk for heart attacks, strokes or death in people with normal or high blood pressure.

http://www.scientifi...the-war-on-salt

You are misleading people again.

1. The study you present as scientific fact is an outlier. Almost every major medical group worldwide advises exactly the opposite: cut salt intake. The results are overwhelming (the same kind of preponderance of the evidence that exists for smoking being bad for your health). As with cigarettes, there were studies also claiming they were not harmful (it turned out most were sponsored by the tobacco companies). Please let us know who sponsored these studies you cite.

2. Don't believe this nonsense. Do a search on Google and you'll find out what I mean.

3. The same poster (on another thread) is a guy claiming that Thais don't eat fast food and that fast food is not the real cause of Thais getting fatter! He's living in another world.

5th to 10th of December.

See www.nimmansoi1.com

Here are some more facts (not wrong impressions) about fast food in Thailand:

1. "By the end of 2009, Mister Donut operated more than 200 outlets covering the entire country and continues to expand more outlets in the future."

2. "Currently, KFC holds the biggest share in the fast food restaurant chain’s market in Thailand. It can be said that these days, KFC has become a part of Thai people’s everyday life..."

3. Auntie Annes has more than 85 outlets in Thailand.

Source for above: http://www.crg.co.th/cooperate/en/brand/index.html

AND:

4. "CP All continues to lead chained fast food sales in Thailand, with 7-Eleven accounting for 53% of value sales in 2010. The company has expanded aggressively, opening an average of 450 stores per year, and aims to reach 7,000 stores by 2013..."

5. "Fast food (in Thailand) will continue to record healthy growth over the forecast period, with the area having a projected forecast period constant value CAGR of 8%. Leading chained players will likely engage in aggressive outlet expansion, price promotions, advertising, CRM campaigns, menu innovations and additional services. Small chained stores and independent stores will struggle to compete as strong branding is a key factor for consumers when choosing fast food products."

Source for above: http://www.euromonitor.com/fast-food-in-thailand/report

AND:

AND:

A&W PLANS 100 OUTLETS IN 4 YEARS

KUB Malaysia Berhad, the licensee of A&W fast-food restaurants in Thailand and Malaysia, is ramping up its business in this country by spending one billion baht to reach 100 outlets.

A&W has been present in Thailand since 1983. KUB has had the franchise for the past 10 years.

Haniza Ros Nasaruddin, the company's general manager for business development, said it would add another 59 A&W restaurants to the existing 41 now in Thailand by 2015. Annual turnover is forecast to triple to one billion baht by the same year.

Most Thais don't eat much Western fast food, but many Thais are becoming overweight and many Thais are getting diabetes. A lot of Thai food is carbs fried in fat with added sugar. Blaming this phenomenon on the West is a politically correct myth.

Dead wrong on so many counts! If the Thais "don't eat much Western fast food" who are all those Thais I've seen in McDonald's, Kentucky Fried Chicken (far more popular in Thailand than in most western countries), Swenson's etc.? Impersonators? Give us all a break. All you have to do is stroll over to the closest KFC and see who's eating there. I'd venture to say that 80% or more of their customers are Thais, especially young ones. If I had a baht for every Thai I saw eating at McDonalds, KFC, or for every young fat Thai kid I saw coming out slurping on a cone from Dairy Queen or Swenson's, I'd be richer than Warren Buffett. Or talk to Thais about the problem of fat children, in particular, and you will find they almost always say it never was like that in the past and it is because these children are addicted to fat, Western foods.

Thai food has ALWAYS had sugar added to many dishes (stir fry; curry etc.) and the "carbs" you're complaining about come only from rice, a staple, because most everything else in Thai food is vegetable or meat. Thai food is pretty much unchanged over the years so it is not something new: hence, the timing does not explain the rise in the past two decades of fat Thais or fit in with your explanation at all. Fast food does and it is the answer. Have a look at the fast food stores and see how many fat Thai people, especially young ones, are hooked on this junk food. It is addictive! Vietnam, by way of contrast, has far fewer western style fast food places and they are not as popular as fast food is in Thailand (to some extent because the Viets cannot afford, by and large, the high prices of the fast food chains). For many years, McDonald's and other such chains (aside from KFC) were forbidden in Vietnam (I'm not sure if they are allowed even now).

Funny man.

Stop hanging around the western Malls and hang around the Thai markets.

Most Thai towns don't have any of these fast food outlets and the ones that do are inconsequential to the amount of people in the city.

You want every one to believe there is a Dairy Queen, McDonald's, Swensons. Burger King and other fast food outlets on every block. Reality is there isn't and they are few and generally far between.

Thais do not work as hard as they used to and they eat more than they used to.

Factually, wrong. You may be entitled to your own opinions but manufacturing facts for your fake view of reality you are not. More than 6,300 7-11s in Thailand (in 2011) ALL selling junk food and sweet, sweet drinks. Just about every neighborhood (let alone city) has a couple of 7-11s, all full of Thai customers munching and drinking unhealthy fast food. There must be at least 7-8 near CMU's gates alone! And of course there are thousands of "copy cat" 7-11 stores all over Thailand, also selling bad and unhealthy junk food.

More than 500 KFCs in 74 (that's seventy-four) Thai provinces. Ditto for McDonald's. Multiple fast food outlets in leading Thai hospitals. Multiple fast food outlets in every airport in Thailand. Some of the big shopping centers in Bangkok have 3 or 4 McDonalds and KFC outlets! Go to the 2 biggest malls in CM (like the Thais do every day) and you will find multiple fast food outlets including KFC, McDonald's, Pizza Hut, The Pizza Company, DQ, the donut shops, Swensens and more! Ditto for every Big C, Lotus in town. These huge malls act as magnets for customers. Their parking lots are full of motorcycles and vehicles, the vast majority being Thais. Where you been to have missed all this? See my post above (#94) that has more stats and sources backing them up. You present assertions, I present facts.

Your theme song must be "Don't get around much anymore".

Some good suggestions. If you leave you will lose your deposit, but if you stay until the end of the lease, you will probably lose your deposit anyway because this is Thailand. Another problem with leaving is your next landlord may be worse.

Unfortunately any issue between a farang and a Thai almost always comes down to the farang being wrong.

You're exactly right about the deposits. Many landlord's see this as akin to a gift that will never be returned. That's why when I talk to a landlord, I also emphasize the point about when will the deposit be returned by him/her and make sure that the written contract has a speedy payback of the deposit. If he/she smiles or looks blankly when you talk about return of the deposit, I move on.

If your are having such troubles and they cannot be fixed easily and your landlord doesn't budge, leave (and lose your deposit). If your landlord is unwilling to fix a major problem like this (and pay for it) you're probably better off elsewhere. CM has lots of rental opportunities. It's a renters market out there (maybe not at Christmas time but starting in February, for sure; there are also plenty of apartments/hotels/guesthouses that you can live in for a couple of months while looking for a better long-term place).

How about a walk thru a normal Thai market. They fry just about everything in unstable oils.

Fried rice, fried noodles, fried bananas, fried fish, chicken, pork etc.

Sugary drinks.

Endless carbs

KFC would sell organic salad and wheatgrass shots if consumers wanted it.

Meanwhile the health food stores are nearly deserted dust covered ghost towns. To be fair though a lot of health food stores are infected with the counterproductive eat more plant carb mentality. Really behind the health curve.

"Normal Thai markets" are also full of healthy fresh fruit and vegetables. And how many fruit stands have you probably walked by in Thailand where fresh fruit is sold in small plastic bags for a cheap price? Contrast that with the West where bakeries are far more prevalent (I can recall that bakeries in Thailand were not very plentiful 22 years ago when I came here; now they are everywhere). I completely agree with you about the unhealthy nature of the products fried in what is most likely high saturated fats (probably palm oil) which have been used again and again. But the traditional Thai diet was a very healthy one compared to the food on offer at fast food outlets in which the food is also cooked in unhealthy fats and also has very high sugar/salt levels. It is a recipe for obesity and diabetes and heart problems.

The Thai traditional diet has been completely upset by the introduction and wonderful marketing of the Western fast food chains, especially amongst young people who are most susceptible to Western marketing techniques. There is a kind of cultural imperialism at work in food too. Ask any cook, and they will tell you that sweeter and saltier foods sell better than others. The big western fast food corporations know that (Pepsi is especially sweet in Thailand) and take advantage of it. I've actually had french fries at McDonald's outlets in Thailand that are so salt laden that I could not eat them; they do that intentionally so customers buy more drinks. I also lived in Vietnam (in HCMC which is much bigger than Hanoi); there were not nearly as many western fast food outlets there as in Thailand. You can see by the numbers I provided for Thailand that the fast food outlets have completely riddled Thailand. Maybe only Singapore in SEAsia has as many per capita and the children there too have grown not only fat but obese. The Singaporean military has to have special training for many of the new recruits who are mostly overweight. Again, there is a direct and strong correlation with the intro of fast food into these cultures and the growth of obesity and severe health problems that are directly related like heart problems, hypertension and diabetes. This is also what is behind the epidemic of obesity and diabetes type 2 in the West.

Most Thais don't eat much Western fast food, but many Thais are becoming overweight and many Thais are getting diabetes. A lot of Thai food is carbs fried in fat with added sugar. Blaming this phenomenon on the West is a politically correct myth.

Dead wrong on so many counts! If the Thais "don't eat much Western fast food" who are all those Thais I've seen in McDonald's, Kentucky Fried Chicken (far more popular in Thailand than in most western countries), Swenson's etc.? Impersonators? Give us all a break. All you have to do is stroll over to the closest KFC and see who's eating there. I'd venture to say that 80% or more of their customers are Thais, especially young ones. If I had a baht for every Thai I saw eating at McDonalds, KFC, or for every young fat Thai kid I saw coming out slurping on a cone from Dairy Queen or Swenson's, I'd be richer than Warren Buffett. Or talk to Thais about the problem of fat children, in particular, and you will find they almost always say it never was like that in the past and it is because these children are addicted to fat, Western foods.

Thai food has ALWAYS had sugar added to many dishes (stir fry; curry etc.) and the "carbs" you're complaining about come only from rice, a staple, because most everything else in Thai food is vegetable or meat. Thai food is pretty much unchanged over the years so it is not something new: hence, the timing does not explain the rise in the past two decades of fat Thais or fit in with your explanation at all. Fast food does and it is the answer. Have a look at the fast food stores and see how many fat Thai people, especially young ones, are hooked on this junk food. It is addictive! Vietnam, by way of contrast, has far fewer western style fast food places and they are not as popular as fast food is in Thailand (to some extent because the Viets cannot afford, by and large, the high prices of the fast food chains). For many years, McDonald's and other such chains (aside from KFC) were forbidden in Vietnam (I'm not sure if they are allowed even now).

While it’s true that the KFCs and the McDonalds are crowded with Thai people, there aren’t that many outlets in Thailand and most of them are where people with money would go. I suspect that for most Thais – given their income – KFC and McDonald’s are for special occasions only.

There could be lots of other reasons Thai kids are getting heavier . Maybe they are less active than before. The internet, video and mobile phone games keep them engrossed and internet.

Or it may be that Thais are just eading more sedentary lives.

While it’s true that Thai food always had lots of sugar and calories, people back then probably ate a lot more rice and a lot less of the main courses.

Any and all of these examples could just be a case of confirmation bias. We tend to see what will confirm our prejudices.

What is needed are large scale longitudinal studies. As is now the case with studies on the effects of sodium consumption on mortality. As UG showed in his citation of an article from Scientific American, the notion that salt causes hypertension is, at best, highly oversimplified. The connection, if there is any, is a weak one. But that took lots of studies to establish.

"While it’s true that the KFCs and the McDonalds are crowded with Thai people, there aren’t that many outlets in Thailand... ."

Wow! Such nonsense. Every major shopping center in Thailand is filled with both of these outlets and several more (usually a Swensens, a DQ etc, Pizza Hut, Burger King, Haagen Daaz etc..). And the very large ones have multiple outlets of each chain. Where have you been living, dude? Go to Bangkok and you will see 3 or 4 McDonald's in almost every major shopping center and there are hundreds of them. Bangkok has about 15 million people, by the way. Here in CM it is no exception; the airport Central Plaza has McDonalds, KFC, Swensens, DQ, Pizza Hut and more. And they are ALL FULL OF THAI people. At least 80%. KFC is more popular here than it is in the USA, ditto with DQ. Then there are the "stand alone" stores too, outside of the shopping centers and CM has its share of them too. Sadly, even a lot of Thai upscale hospitals have fast food stores in them!

KFC (owned by Yum! Brands, Inc.) has more than 500 stores in 74 provinces in Thailand! Source: https://www.amchamth...asp?CorpID=1132

I don't know the number of McDonalds in Thailand, but I would guess it is at least as big as KFC. So there are thousands of these fast food joints spread throughout the country and their growth coincides perfectly with the growth in obesity of the Thai people. That's called "correlation" in statistics. Your comments about Thai food (with people eating more rice back in the old days) also make little sense since UG was complaining about the carbs in Thai food as well as the sugar (carbs would come from the rice).

And it's not only Thais who are getting fat on fast food. Look at the wide bodies of the farangs who eat at those places, and who are addicted to them. Fat fast food is addictive, just like cigarettes are. "Upsizing" is not something you find in Thai restaurants; it is a concept introduced by these western fast food outlets and it is very harmful; I believe NYC has finally outlawed it, or at least jumbo portions of sweet drinks loaded with calories. And there are things like the sweet "Big Gulp" (full of calories) sold by yet another kind of fast food purveyor that is all over Thailand: 7-11.

By the way, there were 6,300 7-11 stores in Thailand in 2011! Have you ever stood at line in one of these? You'll be surrounded by young (mostly fat and pimply) Thais buying candy bars, junk hot dogs, junk sugary drinks, cookies, cake etc.

Source: http://en.wikipedia....Eleven#Thailand

Thanks ianf and MESmith for your suggestions. Didn't know there was a cycling forum right here on TV. I will definitely look into it. I have been following the Chiang Mai Road Riders on Yahoo group for a while. From what I gather, these chaps all drive ultralight road bikes zipping along on asphalt roads at 20-40 kph. I doubt this is going to be much fun on an MTB.

Cheers, CM-Expat

Is this for free and for companionship or are you charging fees? There are some people out there doing this for a fee and it is likely illegal.

Is this for

Most Thais don't eat much Western fast food, but many Thais are becoming overweight and many Thais are getting diabetes. A lot of Thai food is carbs fried in fat with added sugar. Blaming this phenomenon on the West is a politically correct myth.

Dead wrong on so many counts! If the Thais "don't eat much Western fast food" who are all those Thais I've seen in McDonald's, Kentucky Fried Chicken (far more popular in Thailand than in most western countries), Swenson's etc.? Impersonators? Give us all a break. All you have to do is stroll over to the closest KFC and see who's eating there. I'd venture to say that 80% or more of their customers are Thais, especially young ones. If I had a baht for every Thai I saw eating at McDonalds, KFC, or for every young fat Thai kid I saw coming out slurping on a cone from Dairy Queen or Swenson's, I'd be richer than Warren Buffett. Or talk to Thais about the problem of fat children, in particular, and you will find they almost always say it never was like that in the past and it is because these children are addicted to fat, Western foods.

Thai food has ALWAYS had sugar added to many dishes (stir fry; curry etc.) and the "carbs" you're complaining about come only from rice, a staple, because most everything else in Thai food is vegetable or meat. Thai food is pretty much unchanged over the years so it is not something new: hence, the timing does not explain the rise in the past two decades of fat Thais or fit in with your explanation at all. Fast food does and it is the answer. Have a look at the fast food stores and see how many fat Thai people, especially young ones, are hooked on this junk food. It is addictive! Vietnam, by way of contrast, has far fewer western style fast food places and they are not as popular as fast food is in Thailand (to some extent because the Viets cannot afford, by and large, the high prices of the fast food chains). For many years, McDonald's and other such chains (aside from KFC) were forbidden in Vietnam (I'm not sure if they are allowed even now).

BUT, what happened is that this kind of bad food is addictive and so the Thais who went and ate the food, even though originally they might not have liked it (here I agree with Femi Fan for once) , became hooked. Food high in fats is as addictive as cigarettes are.

TheVicar, now c'mon, how short is your memory?! Perhaps i might refer you to your posts in post #s 6 and 12, for example...

"Thanks Femi Fan,

Lots of good thoughts there."

I'd like to say that not all fats are bad, but certainlly the ones in processed foods and in most if not all fast foods. There's a science to it that the food companies willfully use: create a good mix of bad refined fats sugars and salts and two things happen: the punters love the taste, and the body gets fooled into wanting more and bigger portions. Enter obesity.

Since you're interested in food, the bbc in britain, amazingly, made an outstanding documentary earlier this year called 'the men who made us fat'. I think it had three or four episodes and i managed to see it on youtube at the time. It was a truly groundbreaking film, not so much for what it said, but that it was on mainstream tv in Britain.

It's very important for people concerned with their health to do the research on which are good fats and which ones are the bad ones. We need the former, and the latter are creating epidemics in horrible diseases that no family wants to see one of their members fall prey to. Unfortunately this is happening on a vast scale so that the food companies and big pharma can make their billions in profits. No product on earth has seven billion customers, so it's clear why food is good business!

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Posts 6 and 12 have to do with walnuts and with Rimping being in general a good food store. How is that relevant here and how does it differ from anything else I've posted?